Zone1 Another question to ponder.

[BULLDOG]

God is all knowing. Omniscient.

Of course He knows who will reject Him. And yes, they were destined for their fate.

No, God knew they wouldn't change. That doesn't mean God didn't know everything. The opportunity is there, but God knows who will take it.

Now what?

Quantrill

So he created them just to watch them suffer? That doesn't sound very loving or compassionate to me. Sounds more like a hateful asshole.

 

[Quantrill]

Well, make up your mind. If god is omnipotent and omniscient, then he knows every outcome before it happens. That trashes the idea of free will. being able to have any effect on anything.

I have never said man has 'free will'. Man has a will. And, his will is exercised. And his will is necessary to exercise due to his faith in God.

Just because God knows those who are His and who will believe and exercise that will, doesn't take away from His omnipotence or omniscience.

Nothing is trashed.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

nothing is too hard for you, except knowing what will happen next? You believe he created the universe, and numbered the hairs on each of our heads, but he has no idea what might happen next?

No, God knows what will happen next. Where did you get the idea He doesn't?

Nothing surprises God. He doesn't react. He acts.

Quantrill

 

[Winco]

No, God knows what will happen next. Where did you get the idea He doesn't?

Nothing surprises God. He doesn't react. He acts.

Quantrill

You really believe there is a SKY GOD

 

[Quantrill]

So he created them just to watch them suffer? That doesn't sound very loving or compassionate to me. Sounds more like a hateful asshole.

Then you should hate Him, as you do.

God created Man, His people, to become sons of God. The process involved the fall and death of man, and then his resurrection with Christ.

The death involved Satan instigating the fall of man. Which in turn involved another seed line, that of Satan, introduced into the lineage of man. (Gen. 3:15) Men whose father is the Devil. (John 8:39-47)

So, you can hate my Father, and I will hate yours. Which I do.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

You really believe there is a SKY GOD

I believe there is God who created the Heavens and the Earth, whose dwelling is in Heaven. As the Bible says.

So, yes, I really believe in God.

Quantrill

 

[BULLDOG]

I have never said man has 'free will'. Man has a will. And, his will is exercised. And his will is necessary to exercise due to his faith in God.

Just because God knows those who are His and who will believe and exercise that will, doesn't take away from His omnipotence or omniscience.

Nothing is trashed.

Quantrill

But it does mean that he created many knowing they would only suffer. Sounds kinda mean to watch them suffer, don't you think?

 

[BULLDOG]

No, God knows what will happen next. Where did you get the idea He doesn't?

Nothing surprises God. He doesn't react. He acts.

Quantrill

Creating people who will only suffer isn't loving or compassionate. It's sick.

 

[BULLDOG]

Then you should hate Him, as you do.

God created Man, His people, to become sons of God. The process involved the fall and death of man, and then his resurrection with Christ.

The death involved Satan instigating the fall of man. Which in turn involved another seed line, that of Satan, introduced into the lineage of man. (Gen. 3:15) Men whose father is the Devil. (John 8:39-47)

So, you can hate my Father, and I will hate yours. Which I do.

Quantrill

If he existed, I probably would hate him. I am disgusted by the god depicted in the Bible.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The Biblee is man made, a collection of stories some real some ain't. I can live with that. Revelations says it's 100% truth though.

REVELATION not "revelations". At least TRY to sound like you know what you're talking about

 

[SweetSue92]

That's not really the point, is if? You said he is all knowing. He would have had to know specifically which of his creations would not meet his standards and would suffer as a result. He had pre knowledge. they were destined for their fate. Them being able to change their outcome would mean god didn't know everything.

First, no one can meet His standards. That's why Jesus had to come. It's not about "meeting His standards", it's about accepting the Sacrifice because we couldn't.

Second, yes, this is true. God chose first, and we can choose because of that.

 

[SweetSue92]

So he created them just to watch them suffer? That doesn't sound very loving or compassionate to me. Sounds more like a hateful asshole.

You do not love God. Should He never have created you?

 

[ding]

If he existed, I probably would hate him. I am disgusted by the god depicted in the Bible.

If I read it the selective way you do, I probably would to.

Got any complaints concerning the NT?

 

[ding]

But it does mean that he created many knowing they would only suffer. Sounds kinda mean to watch them suffer, don't you think?

Is life suffering for you?

 

[Meriweather]

If he existed, I probably would hate him. I am disgusted by the god depicted in the Bible.

What about the people depicted in the Bible? Are you disgusted by them?

 

[Hafar1014]

If he existed, I probably would hate him. I am disgusted by the god depicted in the Bible.

Its an allegory

 

[Meriweather]

Creating people who will only suffer isn't loving or compassionate. It's sick.

Sounds like an argument against any form of athletics.... Can you name a person who became great without suffering? Can suffering be--or become--a blessing? A producer of good?

 

[Quantrill]

But it does mean that he created many knowing they would only suffer. Sounds kinda mean to watch them suffer, don't you think?

God directly created Adam and Eve. His people. Who He desired to populate the earth with more of His people born of Adam and Eve. Satan in causing the fall of man introduced another seed line, his. (Gen. 3:15) Thus, not all born of Adam and Eve are of God. They are the product of Satan's work.

Was God aware this would happen? Of course. He is God. The suffering of His people would be necessary for 'sonship'. Even The Son, Jesus, was not immune to suffering for this purpose. (Heb. 5:8) "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered."

Was the Son ever disobedient? No, never. But now, been given a human body, He feels the trial and the temptation and the suffering. All of which God has determined is necessary for 'sonship'. And, how he suffered.

Your next question will no doubt be, ''why would God choose that way of suffering?" That I don't know, other than it obtains what He is after in His people. Just like 'death' is necessary also. (John 12:24) "...Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit."

You call it mean. We who believe, who are 'of Him' know this is not just the best method for God to obtain the true sons He wants, but it is the only way. Else another way would have been made.

I have often thought, not doubted, that I could not do to my kids what God does to His. And I only see what's in my own surrounding. God sees it all. All the evil that men do he sees it, and doesn't switch the channel. I don't know how He does it, but He does.

And because He does it, it is good, and right, and just.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

If he existed, I probably would hate him. I am disgusted by the god depicted in the Bible.

Well, if He doesn't exist, you don't need to worry about Him.

Creating people who will only suffer isn't loving or compassionate. It's sick.

See post #(518).

Quantrill

 

[BULLDOG]

You do not love God. Should He never have created you?

Whether I love god is not the point. Why he might have created me is. To create a sentient being knowing it would experience nothing but eternal suffering is cruel. That's a lot like a sick kid that tortures a dog just to see it suffer, and it throws those loving compassionate claims out the window.