Zone1 Why do members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Baptize for the Dead?

[Meriweather]

You have a presupposition of sola scriptura. That all revelation is God-breathed and you are imposing this presupposition on us. Meaning that the Bible is completely infallible and cannot change. And, if a prophet were to receive a revelation, it must also match the standard,(Bible). We reject literally all of that. Sola scriptura is not Biblical. I repeat, it is not Biblical. It didn't even exist until the 14th century and wasn't formalized until the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century.

See, we believe in the fact God still speaks and reveals new revelation. Revelation is misunderstood by most. Revelation is communication from God to man. God is perfect and so is his revelation. man is not perfect. We have never been perfect. Not even the prophets of God. Any and every revelation is filtered through human minds, hearts, and hands introducing imperfections into the equation. This includes the Bible, Book of Mormon, and other scriptures. It was not written by God. They were written by imperfect men, to the best of their abilities. But men are fallible. Scripture is still highly reliable, but not infallible. The only infallible source of truth is God himself. And that only comes through Prophets, not scholars. Living prophets mean new scripture and reinterpretation or corrections of old scripture. Exactly the same way the New Testament authors created more scripture and reinterpreted scripture from the Old Testament. Therefore, living prophets with today modern revelation means that change is not an issue for us. We believe in God who directs his people in real time. This also means that we will continue to see changes as He reveals to us and His Church line upon line and precept upon precept.

It never ceases to me amaze me how LDS tells me what I am "really" doing. My study and research of the Bible has ever been focused on what the original author was saying; what he wanted his original audience to understand. This means I have always rejected sola scriptura. This means studying the language, the etymology--and you have rejected this time after time for a later interpretation by LDS. Your call, but it is not everyone's call. You will not face the issues I am interested in discussing and drag in issues I could not care less about. It's always the same old LDS pablum of avoiding the issue. Duck away from the issue, change it to something else, and make the discussion about that. That never has gone anywhere--and it went nowhere this time.

The issue: I do not believe in proxy "baptism" and I do not wish the LDS Church to proxy "baptize" me. I have given you the reasons. The response is always, "Neener-neener. We're going to do it anyway." The lame response? In the spirit world you don't have to accept it. Really? Then why, in this world--and against my will--do you insist I must accept that you are going to do it anyway? Discuss that. And only that.

 

[Cougarbear]

It never ceases to me amaze me how LDS tells me what I am "really" doing. My study and research of the Bible has ever been focused on what the original author was saying; what he wanted his original audience to understand. This means I have always rejected sola scriptura. This means studying the language, the etymology--and you have rejected this time after time for a later interpretation by LDS. Your call, but it is not everyone's call. You will not face the issues I am interested in discussing and drag in issues I could not care less about. It's always the same old LDS pablum of avoiding the issue. Duck away from the issue, change it to something else, and make the discussion about that. That never has gone anywhere--and it went nowhere this time.

The issue: I do not believe in proxy "baptism" and I do not wish the LDS Church to proxy "baptize" me. I have given you the reasons. The response is always, "Neener-neener. We're going to do it anyway." The lame response? In the spirit world you don't have to accept it. Really? Then why, in this world--and against my will--do you insist I must accept that you are going to do it anyway? Discuss that. And only that.

You always bring up original language like Greek and Hebrew. And, you question our interpretation. Like baptism for the dead and learning continuing in the spirit world.

So, to your question, we won’t baptize anyone without their consent in this life. That includes you. And, we won’t baptize you in the spirit world because it’s an earthly ordinance. And one of your ancestors will have to submit your name to be done. However, in the Millennium, it may be done unless the Lord says not to because you have accepted a lower kingdom for eternal existence or perdition with Satan. You can refer to Doctrine and Covenants Section 76 for all of that as it relates to First Corinthians chapter 15.

 

[GLASNOST]

.... we won’t baptize anyone without their consent.

Yeah, you arrange a meet-up at the McDonalds drive thru on Kobzol or whatever that place is called and the corpses just parachute in for a quck baptism. I know a guy who's been dead for 12 years but gets a voluntary baptismal every 6 months just because he loves the free McMuffin breakfast.

 

[ding]

Then your Jesus must be a very bad person. My Jesus says this in the Bible:

• Luke 22:32: "But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren" (KJV). This directly links personal conversion to the responsibility of helping others.
• Acts 1:8: "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come on you, and you will be my witnesses... to the ends of the earth."
• Matthew 28:19–20: The Great Commission instructs believers to "make disciples of all nations," which is the ultimate, ongoing call to convert others.
• John 4:28–30, 39: The Samaritan woman at the well, immediately after her conversion, went back to her city and told others about Jesus, leading many to believe.
• Acts 16:32–33: Following their conversion, the Philippian jailer and his family were baptized, and he immediately showed care for Paul and Silas.
• 2 Corinthians 5:20: "We are ambassadors for Christ, since God is making his appeal through us."
• Galatians 6:1: "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness".

It's your response that is causing division.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[Cougarbear]

Keep telling yourself that.

You then really don't believe that the Bible is the word of God. Matthew is quite clear, "Convert Others." What is so difficult with this? Acts 1:8 says to the ends of the earth. You aren't on the earth?

 

[Cougarbear]

If you deny the similarites between those on my list and the Satanic Cult of Morminism then you are a victim of being a Cult member. Go ahead and ask the members on that list if they think they are a Cult.

I believe that everything we do is in the Bible. You follow the Koran, correct? I will then call you the Cult member.

 

[Cougarbear]

Yeah, you arrange a meet-up at the McDonalds drive thru on Kobzol or whatever that place is called and the corpses just parachute in for a quck baptism. I know a guy who's been dead for 12 years but gets a voluntary baptismal every 6 months just because he loves the free McMuffin breakfast.

You laugh at your own jokes? Now, that's funny! Who arranges a meet-up at McDonalds? What are you talking about? Have you even read the Bible from beginning to end? Is this what it's like being Muslim?

 

[ding]

You then really don't believe that the Bible is the word of God. Matthew is quite clear, "Convert Others." What is so difficult with this? Acts 1:8 says to the ends of the earth. You aren't on the earth?

You don't know what I believe. You only know you want to fight. You are a disgrace.

 

[Cougarbear]

You don't know what I believe. You only know you want to fight. You are a disgrace.

You are Catholic, right? See, you have this normalcy bias that when someone challenges your understanding of the scriptures, you immediately become defensive and view the challenge as a fight when it's not. If you read the Bible and see how the Lord and the Apostles taught the interested people and how they taught the established religious leaders, it is different. The established religious leaders resisted as you are with their normalcy biases. And, the Lord and Apostles were direct with them. So, I'm not fighting. I'm educating.

 

[ding]

You are Catholic, right? See, you have this normalcy bias that when someone challenges your understanding of the scriptures, you immediately become defensive and view the challenge as a fight when it's not. If you read the Bible and see how the Lord and the Apostles taught the interested people and how they taught the established religious leaders, it is different. The established religious leaders resisted as you are with their normalcy biases. And, the Lord and Apostles were direct with them. So, I'm not fighting. I'm educating.

You have issues.

 

[Cougarbear]

You have issues.

I have the spirit of Jesus Christ and am doing exactly what he has commanded me to do. Once converted, convert others. I do it by offering a different perspective about any topic of the Gospel that is found even in the Bible. I've yet seen you provide any information that would prove I've been wrong. Mostly you just call me names and like Glasnos and Meriweather, have temper tantrums. Engage in facts and you will have a better experience.

 

[Cougarbear]

Yeah, you arrange a meet-up at the McDonalds drive thru on Kobzol or whatever that place is called and the corpses just parachute in for a quck baptism. I know a guy who's been dead for 12 years but gets a voluntary baptismal every 6 months just because he loves the free McMuffin breakfast.

 

[ding]

Keep

I have the spirit of Jesus Christ and am doing exactly what he has commanded me to do. Once converted, convert others. I do it by offering a different perspective about any topic of the Gospel that is found even in the Bible. I've yet seen you provide any information that would prove I've been wrong. Mostly you just call me names and like Glasnos and Meriweather, have temper tantrums. Engage in facts and you will have a better experience.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[Cougarbear]

Keep

Keep telling yourself that.

So, do you believe Jesus Christ is Lord God?

 

[ding]

So, do you believe Jesus Christ is Lord God?

I believe discussing anything related to religion with you is a waste of my time.

 

[Cougarbear]

Yeah, you arrange a meet-up at the McDonalds drive thru on Kobzol or whatever that place is called and the corpses just parachute in for a quck baptism. I know a guy who's been dead for 12 years but gets a voluntary baptismal every 6 months just because he loves the free McMuffin breakfast.

People like you try all the time to prove The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a satanic cult. You act like this is something new and you are going to find something to prove it. This has been going on since 1820 when Joseph Smith had his first vision of the Father and Son. So, here is video of an Atheist actually coming to the defense of the Church, Joseph Smith and The Book of Mormon.

 

[Papageorgio]

If Mormons believe that they can baptize the dead, fine by me, that is their belief, not mine, I don’t agree with it but it isn’t a religion I would ever be a part of.

 

[DennisPTate]

People like you try all the time to prove The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a satanic cult. You act like this is something new and you are going to find something to prove it. This has been going on since 1820 when Joseph Smith had his first vision of the Father and Son. So, here is video of an Atheist actually coming to the defense of the Church, Joseph Smith and The Book of Mormon.

CougarBear... I have a suggestion for the L.D.S. Relief Society, [that I know is the world's largest women's organization]? Carol Marshall prayed fervently for her husband and he was resurrected on a scale that could be compared with Lazarus. If Latter day Saint Sisters begin to interview both Mrs. Carol Marshall as well as her husband then near death experiencer Robert Marshall would be willing to visit Latter day Saint church Ward, after L.D.S., Ward... ater L.D.S. Ward..... and all that Robert Marshall wants is to get out the message publicly. This could be in the State of Utah but there are also lots of L.D.S. Wards in the area of Fort Worth, Texas where this amazing miracle took place.

44 Hours In Heaven Ministries

Official channel of '44 Hours In Heaven Ministries'. A global evangelistic ministry through public venues and audio/video podcasts.

www.youtube.com

Yesterday I was at a public library in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada. I saw two young men there that I was pretty sure were L.D.S. Elders. So I came over to them and I let Elder C..... and Elder C..... know that I had spoken with about fourteen LDS Elders since 2018. I let them know that I was so glad that the L.D.S. church takes these accounts seriously and does not laugh at them. Elder C....s let me know that his dad recently had a near death experience. He saw a transformation in the way that his dad viewed the world and his mission in this world.

I spoke to them about the group near death experience of a number of fire fighters most of whom were Latte day Saints. I also mentioned how some near death experiencers report that they were shown how baptism for the dead assisted some people in the afterlife to progress there.

 

[Cougarbear]

CougarBear... I have a suggestion for the L.D.S. Relief Society, [that I know is the world's largest women's organization]? Carol Marshall prayed fervently for her husband and he was resurrected on a scale that could be compared with Lazarus. If Latter day Saint Sisters begin to interview both Mrs. Carol Marshall as well as her husband then near death experiencer Robert Marshall would be willing to visit Latter day Saint church Ward, after L.D.S., Ward... ater L.D.S. Ward..... and all that Robert Marshall wants is to get out the message publicly. This could be in the State of Utah but there are also lots of L.D.S. Wards in the area of Fort Worth, Texas where this amazing miracle took place.

44 Hours In Heaven Ministries

Official channel of '44 Hours In Heaven Ministries'. A global evangelistic ministry through public venues and audio/video podcasts.

www.youtube.com

Yesterday I was at a public library in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada. I saw two young men there that I was pretty sure were L.D.S. Elders. So I came over to them and I let Elder C..... and Elder C..... know that I had spoken with about fourteen LDS Elders since 2018. I let them know that I was so glad that the L.D.S. church takes these accounts seriously and does not laugh at them. Elder C....s let me know that his dad recently had a near death experience. He saw a transformation in the way that his dad viewed the world and his mission in this world.

I spoke to them about the group near death experience of a number of fire fighters most of whom were Latte day Saints. I also mentioned how some near death experiencers report that they were shown how baptism for the dead assisted some people in the afterlife to progress there.

Then you should want to be baptized because you know that our authority to baptize for the dead is true. Perhaps God has been telling you all along that you should seek the faith that we teach about Jesus Christ and receive the same authority of the Priesthood of God.

 

[DennisPTate]

Then you should want to be baptized because you know that our authority to baptize for the dead is true. Perhaps God has been telling you all along that you should seek the faith that we teach about Jesus Christ and receive the same authority of the Priesthood of God.

My path is different. Along with Rabbi Joe I feel that I must accomplish something for ten million Israelis before I pass on into the afterlife.

I strongly suspect that former Atheist and Rabbi Alon Anava could perhaps be a major fulfillment of Zechariah chapter three. If I became a full fledged Latter day Saint then my attempting to set you up online would have little or no value but because I write what I write as a Messianic Jew or Messianic Gentile who attends a non-denominational Charismatic or Pentecostal church, then my online encouragement to Latter day Saints has more value to get people thinking.

I did pray and ask Messiah Yeshua - Jesus and the Holy Spirit to show me whether or not to join the Latter day Saints and this is the answer that I felt very strongly.

Rabbi Joe Charnes is an American rabbi and interfaith educator known for his in-depth study of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) theology, specifically the Book of Mormon and General Conference. A proponent of Jewish-Christian dialogue, he has attended multiple LDS General Conferences, finding "deep, deep wisdom" in the faith's teachings.
Apple Podcasts +4
Key Details About Rabbi Joe Charnes:

• Background: Based in Colorado Springs, he studied in traditional Jewish seminaries across California, New York, and Israel, and has over 20 years of experience in comparative religion.
• Interfaith Engagement: He frequently studies "Come, Follow Me" (LDS curriculum) and has explored the Book of Mormon, offering a Jewish perspective on its Hebraic structures.
• General Conference: He has attended in-person, finding the experience to be a "healing balm" and a source of inspiration.
• Podcast Appearances: He has discussed topics like prophecy, Isaiah, and Alma 30 on podcasts such as Scripture Central and Church News.

He is not a member of the LDS Church, but a respected friend and student of its doctrines

I wonder if Rabbi Joe Charnes would agree with me that the near death experience account of former Atheist Rabbi Alon Anava reminds me of Matthew chapter four. The teachings of Rabbi Alon Anava since his 2001 seven minute brush with death remind me of Matthew chapters five, six and seven, [The Sermon on the Mount].


www.AlonAnava.com/

Rabbi Alon Anava's second lecture in Las Vegas seems to have HUGE implications for all Christians who believe that there is hidden meaning in Yom Kippur, that is similar to Passover, but also different.









I believe that the thirteen Prophets of the sixteen million Latter day Saint church can use the following concept effectively to promote Christian and Jewish dialogue.

Messiah, Barabbas & the Mystery of the Two Goats | Jonathan Cahn Sermon | Resurrection Day 2025​