Zone1 Another question to ponder.

[Slyhunter]

No. The evidence did. I just shared it with you. Why do you believe the first Christians worshiped Jesus as God?

Same reason they believed in the Tooth fairy.

 

[ding]

Same reason they believed in the Tooth fairy.

So you think they risked persecution and death for no good reason. Would you risk persecution and death for no good reason?

 

[Quantrill]

Now we have research that the Star of Bethlehem was a comet
The real bible
View attachment 1192025

No, that is what you are saying. Show me what this Rabbi says.

Is the Bible the Word of God or not? Is the Bible the Word of God or the Word of Man? Does this Rabbi only believe the Pentateuch is the Bible, as you said?

Show me where he says the Bible is just an allegory.

Quantrill

 

[Slyhunter]

So you think they risked persecution and death for no good reason. Would you risk persecution and death for no good reason?

Yea. Their lives suck that much.

 

[ding]

Yea. Their lives suck that much.

You are without excuse.

 

[Quantrill]

Now we have research that the Star of Bethlehem was a comet
The real bible

So what? That didn't answer anything concerning my questions.

Show me where your Bible, whatever it is, says the Bible is an allegory. Is your Bible the Word of God or the word of man? Where does it say the Pentateuch is the only books of the Bible?

Quantrill

 

[ding]

Yea. Their lives suck that much.

Do you have any evidence for you beliefs or are you taking it on faith?

 

[Hafar1014]

So what? That didn't answer anything concerning my questions.

Show me where your Bible, whatever it is, says the Bible is an allegory. Is your Bible the Word of God or the word of man? Where does it say the Pentateuch is the only books of the Bible?

Quantrill

The point is the New Testament is not the bible. Jewish writings are beyond your understanding. So what difference does it make

 

[Quantrill]

The point is the New Testament is not the bible. Jewish writings are beyond your understanding. So what difference does it make

Well, I just showed you in another thread that Jewish writings are beyond your understanding. I showed you how the Jews have killed the prophets when you said they didn't.

And, by the way, the book you presented in post #(380) by Dr. J.H. Hertz C.H., he doesn't hold to just the Pentateuch being the Bible. He holds to the Tanakh, the Old Testament.

So, where do you get the idea that the Bible is just the Pentateuch? Are you a Samaritan? Is your Bible the Samaritan Bible?

Show me where it says (Genesis) is an allegory. Where does it say the Bible is to be interpreted allegorically?

Quantrill

 

[Hafar1014]

Well, I just showed you in another thread that Jewish writings are beyond your understanding. I showed you how the Jews have killed the prophets when you said they didn't.

And, by the way, the book you presented in post #(380) by Dr. J.H. Hertz C.H., he doesn't hold to just the Pentateuch being the Bible. He holds to the Tanakh, the Old Testament.

So, where do you get the idea that the Bible is just the Pentateuch? Are you a Samaritan? Is your Bible the Samaritan Bible?

Show me where it says (Genesis) is an allegory. Where does it say the Bible is to be interpreted allegorically?

Quantrill

If you cant see Genesis is clearly an allegory then you have a very limited mind. It also means you miss the message which is clear. You need dumbed down religion with idols like Jesus and simple concrete concepts. Thats why Christianity was created. The Jewsih God was to complex and abstract. Simple minds need a simple god. So they invented Jesus. Then they invented a devil and hell to force them to obey. What followed was 2000 years of oppression and intolerance for other beliefs. Simple minds are easily threatened.

 

[Quantrill]

If you cant see Genesis is clearly an allegory then you have a very limited mind. It also means you miss the message which is clear. You need dumbed down religion with idols like Jesus and simple concrete concepts. Thats why Christianity was created. The Jewsih God was to complex and abstract. Simple minds need a simple god. So they invented Jesus. Then they invented a devil and hell to force them to obey. What followed was 2000 years of oppression and intolerance for other beliefs. Simple minds are easily threatened.

Nice speech. But no substance.

Oh, so you can't provide anywhere where to show (Genesis) and the Bible is to be interpreted allegorically. It's just the way you want to interpret it. That's handy, because with allegory you don't have to know what the Bible says, you just open your mouth and make it say whatever you like. Of which you are a perfect example.

Which is why you are so ignorant of the Bible.

Quantrill

 

[TNHarley]

That's handy, because with allegory you don't have to know what the Bible says, you just open your mouth and make it say whatever you like.

Agreed
Its a cop out.

 

[Meriweather]

So they invented Jesus.

Jesus is no more an invention than you are--or any historical person is. Wishful thinking won't make it so.

 

[Hafar1014]

Jesus is no more an invention than you are--or any historical person is. Wishful thinking won't make it so.

Jesus was created because the abstract god of the jews was to hard for the less intelligent to understand. There is no original sin in Genesis therefor no reason for Jesus to exist. The Jesus myth is common tale called the hero story thats been told many times in many cultures all with the same elements

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus was created because the abstract god of the jews was to hard for the less intelligent to understand. There is no original sin in Genesis therefor no reason for Jesus to exist. The Jesus myth is common tale called the hero story thats been told many times in many cultures all with the same elements

How do you see Jesus as making God simple enough for us less intelligent people to understand? Are you proposing that people who do not believe in Jesus are, by definition, more intelligent?

As you do not like the account of Adam and Eve partaking of fruit God told them not to being called, "Original Sin", use your own title that you believe better summarizes the story. As I mentioned out in another post, the story describes the human condition of how we fail to trust God. How little do we humans trust God? He says, "By the way, don't eat the fruit from the tree in the middle of the garden," and we respond with, "We trust what we want more than we trust you."

Are you also asserting since there is no sin/disobedience to God, there was never any need for forgiveness or sacrifice? No need for repentance (turning away from wrong-doing as there is no wrong-doing) and therefore no need for restitution or atonement?

One of my hobbies from childhood is studying mythology and religion. Do they have similarities? Yes. Do they have differences? Also, yes. And those differences tell the story--the same as it does in national histories.

 

[Hafar1014]

How do you see Jesus as making God simple enough for us less intelligent people to understand? Are you proposing that people who do not believe in Jesus are, by definition, more intelligent?

As you do not like the account of Adam and Eve partaking of fruit God told them not to being called, "Original Sin", use your own title that you believe better summarizes the story. As I mentioned out in another post, the story describes the human condition of how we fail to trust God. How little do we humans trust God? He says, "By the way, don't eat the fruit from the tree in the middle of the garden," and we respond with, "We trust what we want more than we trust you."

Are you also asserting since there is no sin/disobedience to God, there was never any need for forgiveness or sacrifice? No need for repentance (turning away from wrong-doing as there is no wrong-doing) and therefore no need for restitution or atonement?

One of my hobbies from childhood is studying mythology and religion. Do they have similarities? Yes. Do they have differences? Also, yes. And those differences tell the story--the same as it does in national histories.

When God has face name and personality thats literally an idol that people can understand. The god of the Jews was abstract. People were already accustomed to worship idols.
There is no mention of original sin in Genesis. Therefore no reason for Jesus to exist

The eating of the fruit is the moral teaching of mankind by god. God intended them to eat the fruit all along thats how they learned morals.
What followed is called the trial for mans freedom. Adam eventually did admit he ate the fruit proving he has learned moral values.
Before they ate the fruit they couldnt know what a sin was. Therefore cant commit one.
Since it was Gods plan all along they eat the fruit obeying Gods plan cant be a sin
You may also notice the tree is created to be attractive in the first place to attract them.

Ill simplify it for you. If you want to teach a child to be honest. Put a cookie next to him and tell him not to eat it. Leave the room. Come back and the cookie is gone and its all over the childs face. Did you eat that cookie. The child says no. Now the lesson begins

 

[Meriweather]

When God has face name and personality thats literally an idol that people can understand. The god of the Jews was abstract. People were already accustomed to worship idols.
There is no mention of original sin in Genesis. Therefore no reason for Jesus to exist

Christian belief is Jesus has two natures: Human and divine. Genesis (the beginnings of mankind)--whether one chooses to call it Original Sin or anything else--is the reason for Jesus' (and therefore Christianity's) existence. Trying to switch the Genesis story, calling elements in it something else, and then claiming it obliterates a later story is a personal conclusion that falls flat for any number of reasons--some of which I've already pointed out.

Judaism and others take no interest in the Christian story. I am wondering why you begrudge Christians their story? For example, do you begrudge Hindus their story, Buddhists their story, or Islam its story? How about Native American stories? Do you begrudge those as well?

The eating of the fruit is the moral teaching of mankind by god. God intended them to eat the fruit all along thats how they learned morals.
What followed is called the trial for mans freedom. Adam eventually did admit he ate the fruit proving he has learned moral values.
Before they ate the fruit they couldnt know what a sin was. Therefore cant commit one.
Since it was Gods plan all along they eat the fruit obeying Gods plan cant be a sin
You may also notice the tree is created to be attractive in the first place to attract them.

Ill simplify it for you. If you want to teach a child to be honest. Put a cookie next to him and tell him not to eat it. Leave the room. Come back and the cookie is gone and its all over the childs face. Did you eat that cookie. The child says no. Now the lesson begins

That is an interesting assessment. I'm from a large family and not once has anyone thought they could teach their child morals by putting a cookie next to them and then leaving the room. Instead, the use of the word "No" is universally used.

While we agree that from the beginning that free will was/is part of God's plan--so is obedience and trust. Genesis paints a contrast between obedience and disobedience, between trust and distrust. It's theme is that all of humanity is going to learn this the hard way. That is where (and why) the lesson of redemption comes into play. In Jesus is the story of redemption.

 

[Lisa558]

Thats what you think. Thats not what the bible says.

The Bible doesn’t say anything about Jesus.

 

[Hafar1014]

Christian belief is Jesus has two natures: Human and divine. Genesis (the beginnings of mankind)--whether one chooses to call it Original Sin or anything else--is the reason for Jesus' (and therefore Christianity's) existence. Trying to switch the Genesis story, calling elements in it something else, and then claiming it obliterates a later story is a personal conclusion that falls flat for any number of reasons--some of which I've already pointed out.

Judaism and others take no interest in the Christian story. I am wondering why you begrudge Christians their story? For example, do you begrudge Hindus their story, Buddhists their story, or Islam its story? How about Native American stories? Do you begrudge those as well?





That is an interesting assessment. I'm from a large family and not once has anyone thought they could teach their child morals by putting a cookie next to them and then leaving the room. Instead, the use of the word "No" is universally used.

While we agree that from the beginning that free will was/is part of God's plan--so is obedience and trust. Genesis paints a contrast between obedience and disobedience, between trust and distrust. It's theme is that all of humanity is going to learn this the hard way. That is where (and why) the lesson of redemption comes into play. In Jesus is the story of redemption.

Christians distorted a Jewish work and created religion that for the next 1000 years was oppressive and violent. They created a devil and Hell as threat to force obedience. Thats the opposite fi the message in Genies.

Genesis is the moral reaching of man and the trial for mans freedom. By choice not forced obedience.
Its not original sin and the fall of man.

That means there was never a reason for Jesus to exist as god.
The cookie analogy was to illustrate the meaning of the allegory

The fruit is the cookie.
Next time write your own bible dont steal mine and change its meaning

 

[TNHarley]

The Bible doesn’t say anything about Jesus.

?