Zone1 Another question to ponder.

[Hawkins]

Humans are idiots. Both Eden and Earth are sandboxes of the final Heaven where the high intelligence angels interact with the low intelligence humans. Eden is to demonstrate the effect of influence from the crafty snake to Adam and Eve, while Earth provides with the resolution.

On earth all (stupid) humans are under the manipulation of the fallen angels that all humans are kept captive under Law (but without their awareness). It means that under the influence of the angels, humans don't stand a chance to possibly pass the Final Judgment of Law to be saved. As enforced by Law, they shall be fully destroyed along with Earth by a flood.

Jesus is the game changer. His one-time sacrifice at a certain point of humanity legitimately changed the standard of the Final Judgment. Humans are now judged by Covenant instead of Law. Humans stand no chance to counter the (fallen) angels in terms of intelligence and strength, however they are given the weapon of Faith. With faith humans can break the chains and to be saved, which the (fallen) angels can do nothing to stop it.

 

[Hafar1014]

That's the thing about choice, isn't it?

Actually, to go deeper into this topic, it's believed that God is proving His love to the universe by showing how He treats even those who disobey Him.

Which is going back to humankind (all of us here on earth) not being the only created beings.

We're the only ones who disobeyed Him, but yet and still, He hasn't outright destroyed us, which He could have at the point of Adam, or even at the point of Noah (which was referred to earlier in this thread).

Hope this brings more clarity.

Genesis is an allegory and yes we are empowered to disobey God

 

[Hafar1014]

Humans are idiots. Both Eden and Earth are sandboxes of the final Heaven where the high intelligence angels interact with the low intelligence humans. Eden is to demonstrate the effect of influence from the crafty snake to Adam and Eve, while Earth provides with the resolution.

On earth all (stupid) humans are under the manipulation of the fallen angels that all humans are kept captive under Law (but without their awareness). It means that under the influence of the angels, humans don't stand a chance to possibly pass the Final Judgment of Law to be saved. As enforced by Law, they shall be fully destroyed along with Earth by a flood.

Jesus is the game changer. His one-time sacrifice at a certain point of humanity legitimately changed the standard of the Final Judgment. Humans are now judged by Covenant instead of Law. Humans stand no chance to counter the (fallen) angels in terms of intelligence and strength, however they are given the weapon of Faith. With faith humans can break the chains and to be saved, which the (fallen) angels can do nothing to stop it.

There is no original sin in Genesis therefore Jesus has no reason to exist. He is literally an idol created to use threats of hell to force obedience. This is 100% the opposite of the meaning of Genesis which is free will and moral values

 

[Hawkins]

There is no original sin in Genesis therefore Jesus has no reason to exist. He is literally an idol created to use threats of hell to force obedience. This is 100% the opposite of the meaning of Genesis which is free will and moral values

Do you actually know how to read. It's nothing about original sin. It's all about (Isaiah 14:17) the (fallen) angels have all the ability to manipulate humans into sinning during their life time.

You as a human can only know if Jesus is needed when the Final Judgment comes.

 

[Hafar1014]

Do you actually know how to read. It's nothing about original sin. It's all about (Isaiah 14:17) the (fallen) angels have all the ability to manipulate humans into sinning during their life time.

You as a human can only know if Jesus is needed when the Final Judgment comes.

Jesus never existed. Fallen angles dont manipulate us people make poor choices. I dont need Jesus the concept is primitive.

 

[Hawkins]

Jesus never existed. Fallen angles dont manipulate us people make poor choices. I dont need Jesus the concept is primitive.

That's remains your faith! (and with a bold assertion based on nothing)

 

[Slyhunter]

Setting aside the fact that no one worships Joel Osteen as God, you believe they witnessed Joel Olsteen controlling matter, controlling nature, healing physical deformities, healing diseases, raising the dead and resurrecting himself from death?

I don't think so. The first Christians who witnessed the supernatural acts performed by Jesus - which included controlling matter, controlling nature, healing physical deformities, healing diseases, raising the dead and resurrecting himself from death - worshiped Jesus as God because they witnessed those miracles.

1. Non-Christian historians recorded that the first Christians worshiped Jesus as God because he performed supernatural feats.
2. 24,000 written manuscripts documented the supernatural feats Jesus performed and the first Christians witnessed.
3. The Babylonian Talmud confirms Jewish religious leaders put Jesus to death for sorcery and for leading Israel into apostasy.
4. There are no opposing accounts that document that Jesus did not perform any supernatural acts.
5. There are no opposing accounts that argue Jesus wasn't put to death for performing sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy.
6. There are no opposing accounts which document Jesus wasn't resurrected.
7. There are no opposing accounts that the first Christians didn't witness Jesus performing supernatural acts.
8. There are no opposing accounts that document the first Christians didn't worship Jesus as God.

The resurrection is supported by the Christian departure from the Jewish perception of resurrection and the remarkable rise of Christian Messianism. It actually begins to worship Jesus as Lord, associate Him with divine status, and attribute to Him co-eternity with the Father. This is not only historically unique, but also apologetically unappealing – so much so that the early Church had to pay the ultimate price for it (including separation from the synagogue and even persecution). Additionally, the early Church organized itself into a missionary community that not only went beyond the boundaries of Israel but also to the very frontiers of the Roman Empire, making it one of the most pluralistic religious organizations in the history of religions. With a crucified Messiah as its head, the early Church formed one of the most dynamically expansive communities in history.

A book told you that, so you believe a book.

 

[ding]

A book told you that, so you believe a book.

No. The evidence did. I just shared it with you. Why do you believe the first Christians worshiped Jesus as God?

 

[Quantrill]

There is no original sin in Genesis therefore Jesus has no reason to exist. He is literally an idol created to use threats of hell to force obedience. This is 100% the opposite of the meaning of Genesis which is free will and moral values

That is a lie. (Gen. 3:1-7) 'original sin'

You apparently don't believe it, but it is there. Plenty of reason for God The Son to become the Man Jesus Christ.

You don't believe your own Bible do you? Why should you, you don't see it as the Word of God. You don't know what to believe.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Jesus never existed. Fallen angles dont manipulate us people make poor choices. I dont need Jesus the concept is primitive.

Yes He did. See (Matt. Mark, Luke, John, and Revelation).

Quantrill

 

[Hafar1014]

That is a lie. (Gen. 3:1-7) 'original sin'

You apparently don't believe it, but it is there. Plenty of reason for God The Son to become the Man Jesus Christ.

You don't believe your own Bible do you? Why should you, you don't see it as the Word of God. You don't know what to believe.

Quantrill

There is no word original sin in Genesis. In fact they could not have sinned.
Before they ate the fruit they couldnt know right from wrong therefore cant sin.
It was Gods plan that they eat the fruit all along. Obeying Gods plan cant be sin.
Genesis describes the mortal teaching man and th trial for mans freedom

There is no original sin or fall of man. Jesus is a myth an idol.

 

[Quantrill]

There is no word original sin in Genesis. In fact they could not have sinned.
Before they ate the fruit they couldnt know right from wrong therefore cant sin.
It was Gods plan that they eat the fruit all along. Obeying Gods plan cant be sin.
Genesis describes the mortal teaching man and th trial for mans freedom

There is no original sin or fall of man. Jesus is a myth an idol.

Doesn't matter. It was the original sin. You said there was no original sin in (Genesis) which is a lie.

They understood the command from God 'not to eat of the tree'. They were under a law from God. They disobeyed. They sinned. The original sin.

Doesn't matter what God's plan was. They still sinned. They didn't obey the only law they were given. The original sin.

Genesis is the Book of origins. And in (Gen. 3) we find the original sin.

Your unbelief changes nothing. Why is the Pentateuch your Bible? You don't believe it. Is your Bible the Word of God or not? Why are you scared to answer?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Genesis is an allegory and yes we are empowered to disobey God

Who said (Genesis) is an allegory? You?

Quantrill

 

[Hafar1014]

Doesn't matter. It was the original sin. You said there was no original sin in (Genesis) which is a lie.

They understood the command from God 'not to eat of the tree'. They were under a law from God. They disobeyed. They sinned. The original sin.

Doesn't matter what God's plan was. They still sinned. They didn't obey the only law they were given. The original sin.

Genesis is the Book of origins. And in (Gen. 3) we find the original sin.

Your unbelief changes nothing. Why is the Pentateuch your Bible? You don't believe it. Is your Bible the Word of God or not? Why are you scared to answer?

Quantrill

The words original sin are nowhere in Genesis.
The command as understood by Orthodox Rabbis was test of free will. Disobedience is the test. They dint die did they. Because God always intended them to eat the fruit. Thats the whole point.
They obeyed Gods plan that cant be a sin. They couldn't know what sin was before they ate the fruit. There must be intent to sin. They did what they were supposed to do. Sorry but its not there

 

[Quantrill]

The words original sin are nowhere in Genesis.
The command as understood by Orthodox Rabbis was test of free will. Disobedience is the test. They dint die did they. Because God always intended them to eat the fruit. Thats the whole point.
They obeyed Gods plan that cant be a sin. They couldn't know what sin was before they ate the fruit. There must be intent to sin. They did what they were supposed to do. Sorry but its not there

Doesn't matter if the word 'original sin' is not there. The act of original sin is there.

It was still a command and still a sin against that command. The original sin. The words 'disobedience is the test' isn't there either.
Yes they did die. God said the day they eat, they would die. Death is separation. They died spiritually in that their spirits were now alienated from God. And death works in their bodies so that one day their body will die, which is the separation of their spirit and soul from their body.

They were not trying to obey God's plan. They sinned because they were disobedient to the law.

They knew the command of God not to eat. They disobeyed. They sinned. It was the original sin.

They didn't do what they were supposed to do. They understood. They sinned.

Sorry, your story is made up. You lie to others and yourself.

Again, is your Bible the Word of God. Why are you scared to answer?

Quantrill

 

[Hafar1014]

Doesn't matter if the word 'original sin' is not there. The act of original sin is there.

It was still a command and still a sin against that command. The original sin. The words 'disobedience is the test' isn't there either.
Yes they did die. God said the day they eat, they would die. Death is separation. They died spiritually in that their spirits were now alienated from God. And death works in their bodies so that one day their body will die, which is the separation of their spirit and soul from their body.

They were not trying to obey God's plan. They sinned because they were disobedient to the law.

They knew the command of God not to eat. They disobeyed. They sinned. It was the original sin.

They didn't do what they were supposed to do. They understood. They sinned.

Sorry, your story is made up. You lie to others and yourself.

Again, is your Bible the Word of God. Why are you scared to answer?

Quantrill

Then they are your words not the Bibles word. Thats the whole point
Too bad you cant read Hebrew thats why you cant understand the meaning.

 

[Quantrill]

Then they are your words not the Bibles word. Thats the whole point
Too bad you cant read Hebrew thats why you cant understand the meaning.

No, it's not my words. God said don't eat, in the day you eat of the fruit you will die. They disobeyed. They sinned. That is the original sin. Too bad you can't understand English. And there are plenty of Christians who can read Hebrew who know (Gen. 3) is original sin. Too bad you have created a lie for others and have lied to yourself.

But, your bible, your made up stories, your lies, are not the Word of God. And your scared to admit it. My Bible is the Word of God.

And who says (Genesis) is an allegory? You?

Why are you scared to answer the simple questions?

Quantrill

 

[Hafar1014]

No, it's not my words. God said don't eat, in the day you eat of the fruit you will die. They disobeyed. They sinned. That is the original sin. Too bad you can't understand English. And there are plenty of Christians who can read Hebrew who know (Gen. 3) is original sin. Too bad you have created a lie for others and have lied to yourself.

But, your bible, your made up stories, your lies, are not the Word of God. And your scared to admit it. My Bible is the Word of God.

And who says (Genesis) is an allegory? You?

Why are you scared to answer the simple questions?

Quantrill

Gods intent was for them to eat the fruit all along. Why do you think God put the tree there in the first place with fruit. To attract them to it. This becomes common sense.
Christianity is but on a lie to use threats to force obedience. It has evolved but it took 2000 years
The Jews who wrote it and the Rabbis who study it know its an allegory. We should because we the Jews wrote it.

 

[Quantrill]

Gods intent was for them to eat the fruit all along. Why do you think God put the tree there in the first place with fruit. To attract them to it. This becomes common sense.
Christianity is but on a lie to use threats to force obedience. It has evolved but it took 2000 years
The Jews who wrote it and the Rabbis who study it know its an allegory. We should because we the Jews wrote it.

God's intent was for them to obey the law He laid down. They knew nothing of His complete plan. They knew they were not to eat. They ate. They sinned. The original sin.

And, just because God's overall plan involved their sinning, doesn't mean their sin was not the original sin. It was still the original sin. You will have to make up more lies now.

No, Christianity is built on the truths of the Bible. The Bible you don't believe. You lie straight out of the gate in (Genesis). Your lies will multiply as you pervert the Bible truths.

The Jews wrote it.....big deal. It was written under Divine inspiration from God. God is the Author, not the Jewish writers. But here again you must add to your lies. Is God the Author of the Bible or not? Is the Bible the Word of God or the word of man?

What Rabbis who study your Bible say it is an allegory. Who are they and where did they say that?

Quantrill

 

[Hafar1014]

God's intent was for them to obey the law He laid down. They knew nothing of His complete plan. They knew they were not to eat. They ate. They sinned. The original sin.

And, just because God's overall plan involved their sinning, doesn't mean their sin was not the original sin. It was still the original sin. You will have to make up more lies now.

No, Christianity is built on the truths of the Bible. The Bible you don't believe. You lie straight out of the gate in (Genesis). Your lies will multiply as you pervert the Bible truths.

The Jews wrote it.....big deal. It was written under Divine inspiration from God. God is the Author, not the Jewish writers. But here again you must add to your lies. Is God the Author of the Bible or not? Is the Bible the Word of God or the word of man?

What Rabbis who study your Bible say it is an allegory. Who are they and where did they say that?

Quantrill

Now we have research that the Star of Bethlehem was a comet
The real bible