Zone1 Another question to ponder.

[ding]

The reality is, I dont think there is a point.

Whereas my comment wasn't on beliefs but on behaviors. You may say you believe there is no point but I doubt you behave that way.

If you really believed there was no point, you wouldn't care what happened to you or anyone you loved. Is that how you behave?

 

[TNHarley]

If you really believed there was no point, you wouldn't care what happened to you are anyone you loved.

Please elaborate

 

[ding]

Please elaborate

Do you take steps (i.e. actions) to provide and protect your family? Because that's behavior. If you truly believed existence was pointless, had no meaning and you had no purpose, why would you do that?

 

[Hafar1014]

Do you take steps (i.e. actions) to provide and protect your family? Because that's behavior. If you truly believed existence was pointless, had no meaning and you had no purpose, why would you do that?

I dont understand the question "there is no point" Every human act has a point goal or purpose

 

[ding]

I dont understand the question "there is no point" Every human act has a point goal or purpose

I agree but most atheists will tell you that they do not believe there is a point of existence. That there is no purpose or meaning of existence. They say that because that is the logical conclusion of believing all that exists is the material. But their behaviors do not match their beliefs.

 

[Hafar1014]

I agree but most atheists will tell you that they do not believe there is a point of existence. That there is no purpose or meaning of existence. They say that because that is the logical conclusion of believing all that exists is the material. But their behaviors do not match their beliefs.

Viktor Frankl discovered the inherent importance of a life with meaning. He was in a NAZI concentration camp. He noticed that those who survived were not the strong ones. They had lives that meant something. When we dont have meaning in our lives we will experience despair. We need to stand for more then survival and procreation.
In the pursuit of meaning, Frankl recommends three different kinds of experience: through deeds, the experience of values through some kind of medium (beauty through art, love through a relationship, etc.) or suffering. While the third is not necessarily in the absence of the first two, within Frankl’s frame of thought, suffering became an option through which to find meaning and experience values in life in the absence of the other two opportunities (Frankl 1992, p. 118).

Though for Frankl, joy could never be an end to itself, it was an important byproduct of finding meaning in life. He points to studies where there is marked difference in life spans between “trained, tasked animals,” i.e., animals with a purpose, than “taskless, jobless animals.” And yet it is not enough simply to have something to do, rather what counts is the “manner in which one does the work” (Frankl 1986, p. 125)

​

 

[TNHarley]

Do you take steps (i.e. actions) to provide and protect your family? Because that's behavior. If you truly believed existence was pointless, had no meaning and you had no purpose, why would you do that?

So in order for me not to want to die, or my mother die, I have to believe i was created for a reason and I have a purpose? lol

 

[Hafar1014]

So in order for me not to want to die, or my mother die, I have to believe i was created for a reason and I have a purpose? lol

You are required to define your own meaning. So whats the meaning of your life?

 

[ding]

Viktor Frankl discovered the inherent importance of a life with meaning. He was in a NAZI concentration camp. He noticed that those who survived were not the strong ones. They had lives that meant something. When we dont have meaning in our lives we will experience despair. We need to stand for more then survival and procreation.
In the pursuit of meaning, Frankl recommends three different kinds of experience: through deeds, the experience of values through some kind of medium (beauty through art, love through a relationship, etc.) or suffering. While the third is not necessarily in the absence of the first two, within Frankl’s frame of thought, suffering became an option through which to find meaning and experience values in life in the absence of the other two opportunities (Frankl 1992, p. 118).

Though for Frankl, joy could never be an end to itself, it was an important byproduct of finding meaning in life. He points to studies where there is marked difference in life spans between “trained, tasked animals,” i.e., animals with a purpose, than “taskless, jobless animals.” And yet it is not enough simply to have something to do, rather what counts is the “manner in which one does the work” (Frankl 1986, p. 125)

​

I couldn't agree with this more. While I would never wish suffering upon anyone, it "can" serve several purposes if one is in the right frame of mind. Meaning can be discovered through suffering, lessons can be learned through suffering. The reality is that the universe make impositions upon us which will lead to suffering. There's no way around it. The only question is will it make us better or will it make us bitter.

 

[Hafar1014]

I couldn't agree with this more. While I would never wish suffering upon anyone, it "can" serve several purposes if one is in the right frame of mind. Meaning can be discovered through suffering, lessons can be learned through suffering. The reality is that the universe will impose upon us and that will lead to suffering. There's no way around it. The only question is will it make us better or will it make us bitter.

Survivors get stronger victims get weaker

 

[ding]

Survivors get stronger victims get weaker

I believe the will to survive is proportionately related to how one sees meaning and purpose in their lives.

 

[ding]

So in order for me not to want to die, or my mother die, I have to believe i was created for a reason and I have a purpose? lol

You are skipping steps. The first step is how do you behave. Then go from there.

 

[Hafar1014]

You are skipping steps. The first step is how do you behave. Then go from there.

The atheist concept of reality is very concrete, limited small and easy to understand. Its like thinking in a small box of finite easy to see objects.

 

[ding]

The atheist concept of reality is very concrete, limited small and easy to understand. Its like thinking in a small box of finite easy to see objects.

Agreed. At the heart of atheism is the belief that all that exists is the material world. As such all manifestations proceed from the satisfaction of material needs and primitive impulses. Accordingly they should see no distinction between good and evil. But that is not how they act. Every argument they make is a moral argument. As such, their actions belie their beliefs.

 

[Quantrill]

So if they were the only ones of god, why did the "omniscient" one create the rest of Earths population?

The 'rest of the earths population' is a result of the fall of Adam. (Gen. 3:15) "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

The 'rest of the Earths population' is part of the spiritual warfare against God. A 'spiritual warfare' that began long before Adam was created.

God, Who is omniscient, is willing to engage this war, to obtain His purpose.

Quantrill

 

[Slyhunter]

So what you are saying is that you live your life assuming all that exists is the material world. Which brings me back to my point that people who believe all that exists is the material world must believe everything is pointless. Right?

Sometimes. Most of the time. It sucks.

 

[Slyhunter]

Not necessarily. Pride in and of itself isn't a sin. How does remembering something you are proud of make it a sin?

It makes you proud. And yes pride is a sin.

 

[TNHarley]

The 'rest of the earths population' is a result of the fall of Adam. (Gen. 3:15) "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

The 'rest of the Earths population' is part of the spiritual warfare against God. A 'spiritual warfare' that began long before Adam was created.

God, Who is omniscient, is willing to engage this war, to obtain His purpose.

Quantrill

So why did he create them if he knew that would happen?
What kind of "god" would create all these people knowing they would stray? In the end just to kill them all? There is zero logic in that.

 

[Slyhunter]

I agree but most atheists will tell you that they do not believe there is a point of existence. That there is no purpose or meaning of existence. They say that because that is the logical conclusion of believing all that exists is the material. But their behaviors do not match their beliefs.

You must have faith that there is no God to be an Atheist. They lack concrete proof of their beliefs as well.

 

[Slyhunter]

I couldn't agree with this more. While I would never wish suffering upon anyone, it "can" serve several purposes if one is in the right frame of mind. Meaning can be discovered through suffering, lessons can be learned through suffering. The reality is that the universe make impositions upon us which will lead to suffering. There's no way around it. The only question is will it make us better or will it make us bitter.

It could ruin us so that we won't be able to enjoy this afterlife, if there is one, once we get there.