Zone1 Another question to ponder.

[dblack]

So god sent jesus (himself) to save us from himself. He did that so he could forgive sins. Atonement.
Why didnt he do that, instead of the flood? Why did he kill the entire planet and almost all the animals, when he could have just sent jesus earlier? Did the omniscient one just not think of jesus yet? Or is he just a freaking psychopath?
This is just another pondering that leaves me in the "WTF" category.

Mere mortals can't hope to understand His infinite wisdom.

Just kneel and pray, and STFU!

 

[Slyhunter]

So why did he create them if he knew that would happen?
What kind of "god" would create all these people knowing they would stray? In the end just to kill them all? There is zero logic in that.

Maybe God is bored unable to experience these lives without doing so through his clay pots, us?

 

[Slyhunter]

It would be nice to have faith if I just didn't over-think it. Too simplistic of an answer? wanting something too be true, wishing it were true, having faith that it's true; doesn't make it true though.

 

[Hafar1014]

It would be nice to have faith if I just didn't over-think it. Too simplistic of an answer? wanting something too be true, wishing it were true, having faith that it's true; doesn't make it true though.

Faith or hope creates the vision to make things true

 

[Hafar1014]

Mere mortals can't hope to understand His infinite wisdom.

Just kneel and pray, and STFU!

He has a point Christina dogma makes no sense

 

[Quantrill]

So why did he create them if he knew that would happen?
What kind of "god" would create all these people knowing they would stray? In the end just to kill them all? There is zero logic in that.

The kind of God that wanted 'Sons' born of him, of His very nature and being.

He, God, didn't kill all His sons. But all His sons would die. But death was the need for the rebirth. (John 12:24) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit."

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

He has a point Christina dogma makes no sense

Why doesn't Christianity make sense?

Quantrill

 

[Hafar1014]

Why doesn't Christianity make sense?

Quantrill

The dogma makes no sense but the moral values do because they are Jewish which makes no sense either

 

[ding]

Sometimes. Most of the time. It sucks.

It's human nature to over exaggerate the bad and under estimate the good. By any objective measure existence is good.

 

[ding]

It makes you proud. And yes pride is a sin.

What's wrong with being proud?

And no, pride is not necessarily a sin. Pride can cause one to sin, but pride in and of itself is not a sin.

There is a distinction between sinful pride and positive feelings like satisfaction or self-respect. Sinful pride is characterized by arrogance and a belief that you are superior to others or that you don't need God.

 

[Hafar1014]

It's human nature to over exaggerate the bad and under estimate the good. By any objective measure existence is good.

That would indicate a person with anxiety issues. There can be no objective measure either way. Existence is free anything can happen to anyone.

 

[ding]

So why did he create them if he knew that would happen?
What kind of "god" would create all these people knowing they would stray? In the end just to kill them all? There is zero logic in that.

Exactly. Which is why it didn't happen. Man can't choose to be virtuous without having knowledge of good and evil.

 

[ding]

You must have faith that there is no God to be an Atheist. They lack concrete proof of their beliefs as well.

Maybe. I think it might be a little more complicated than that though.

 

[ding]

It could ruin us so that we won't be able to enjoy this afterlife, if there is one, once we get there.

Maybe but I suspect it's all part of the conflict and confusion process of discovering truth. There is a law of compensation at work.

 

[ding]

Mere mortals can't hope to understand His infinite wisdom.

Just kneel and pray, and STFU!

Or be more curious than judgmental.

 

[ding]

There can be no objective measure either way.

I think Maimonides would disagree:

"MEN frequently think that the evils in the world are more numerous than the good things, that just isn't the case. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation: there would be one single being, but no individuals forming a species. It would be in vain to expect to see living beings formed of the blood of menstruous women and the semen virile, who will not die, will never feel pain, or will move perpetually, or will shine like the sun. Whatever is formed of any matter receives the most perfect form possible in that species of matter: in each individual case the defects are in accordance with the defects of that individual matter. The best and most perfect being that can be formed of the blood and the semen is the species of man, for as far as man's nature is known, he is living, reasonable, and mortal. It is therefore impossible that man should be free from this species of evil. You will, nevertheless, find that the evils of the above kind which befall man are very few and rare.

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils.The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils." Maimonides

 

[ding]

Maimonides argued that all existence is ultimately good, but with the crucial understanding that "evil" is not a created substance but a privation or a result of imperfect matter and human failings. He believed that when viewed in the grand cosmic order, even the seemingly negative aspects of creation, like death or suffering, are necessary for the universe's existence and continuation, aligning with the idea that "God saw all that he had made, and indeed, it was very good".

• Evil is not a creation: Maimonides states that God did not create evil, as evil is a non-existent state, or a "privation" of good.
• Evil stems from imperfect matter and ignorance: What we perceive as evil comes from a few sources: natural forces, the limitations of physical, corporeal matter, and human ignorance or failings.
• Cosmic order is good: From the perspective of the whole, everything is good. The existence of physical matter is necessary for the universe's permanence and the continuation of all things, even though it is the source of decay and death for individuals.
• "Very good" includes everything: He interprets the biblical phrase "very good" to mean that even the parts that seem negative to us are part of the perfect goodness of God's creation when seen as a complete whole

 

[Hafar1014]

I think Maimonides would disagree:

"MEN frequently think that the evils in the world are more numerous than the good things, that just isn't the case. He who thinks that he can have flesh and bones without being subject to any external influence, or any of the accidents of matter, unconsciously wishes to reconcile two opposites, viz., to be at the same time subject and not subject to change. If man were never subject to change there could be no generation: there would be one single being, but no individuals forming a species. It would be in vain to expect to see living beings formed of the blood of menstruous women and the semen virile, who will not die, will never feel pain, or will move perpetually, or will shine like the sun. Whatever is formed of any matter receives the most perfect form possible in that species of matter: in each individual case the defects are in accordance with the defects of that individual matter. The best and most perfect being that can be formed of the blood and the semen is the species of man, for as far as man's nature is known, he is living, reasonable, and mortal. It is therefore impossible that man should be free from this species of evil. You will, nevertheless, find that the evils of the above kind which befall man are very few and rare.

It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils.The error of the ignorant goes so far as to say that God's power is insufficient, because He has given to this Universe the properties which they imagine cause these great evils." Maimonides

Every though belief and act is based on emotions. 100% objectivity is not possible. Reality is in a state of chaos or freedom. You can be a virtuous person and get struck by lightning get cancer or have a stroke.
All existence is good? Ask the Jews about that one. All existence is free. How you respond is your choice. God is not a player.

 

[TNHarley]

The kind of God that wanted 'Sons' born of him, of His very nature and being.

He, God, didn't kill all His sons. But all His sons would die. But death was the need for the rebirth. (John 12:24) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit."

Quantrill

Why did he create them if he knew they would end up they way they did?

 

[Quantrill]

The dogma makes no sense but the moral values do because they are Jewish which makes no sense either

What about the Christian dogma doesn't make sense? And, what about Jewish doesn't make sense?

Quantrill