Zone1 Alpha Male vs a Real Man... Are They the Same Thing?

[Mashmont]

Disclaimer: The following post is just my opinion. So it's OK if we disagree, I'm not stating this as an objective truth that everyone has to agree with.


Is an "alpha male" and a real man the same thing?

This question came to mind while I was reading another thread where people were describing Trump as an “alpha male.” The premise of that thread seemed to be that women love alpha males…and Trump is an alpha male, so that’s why women love Trump. I was going to reply on that thread, but then I figured this is actually an interesting topic that deserves a thread of its own.


I don’t want this thread to be only about Trump, so the only thing I’ll say about him is this...whether he's an alpha male or not, it always surprises me that people think of Trump as attractive. That got me thinking, what makes a man attractive? Is it simply being an alpha male, or is there something more than that? Then I thought, maybe I don't have the right definition of alpha male in mind.

So I looked up the definition, and here’s what I found:


“In a human context, an ‘alpha male’ is typically defined as a man who is dominant, assertive, and occupies a high social or professional status.”
​

Ok, so if an alpha male is simply a man who is dominant, assertive, and has a high social or professional status....that's cool, but to me those qualities alone don’t necessarily make someone attractive. Or a real man, necessarily.

Of course, I can’t speak for all women; I can only speak for myself.


In my view, what good is it to be dominant, confident and assertive...or to have power or social status.…if one doesn’t also have truly admirable qualities like honesty, integrity, honor, and wisdom?


I would say that a real man, and a true leader, is someone who has strength of character, integrity, wisdom, courage, and other qualities that people can genuinely admire and respect....and confidence too. But not the kind of confidence that is pompous or arrogant. I think real confidence is paired with humility. And that may not be a quality that people tend to associate with an "alpha male"...but I would say that a real man or a true leader has humility. I mean, look at Jesus. From a Christian perspective, He is the highest power in the world, the King above all kings, yet he was humble and "lowly." (Matthew 11:29)

So I’m curious to know how other people see this.


Is an “alpha male” the same thing as a real man or a true leader? Or are they two completely different things?

And if you're a woman....is someone being an alpha male all it takes for you, or is there something more that makes a man attractive?

Or is this whole idea of "alpha male" a silly and unimportant concept? lol

Since this thread is about Trump, there are a couple of things to understand about him. His public persona is a bit different from the private Trump.
It is necessary to communicate in a memorable ambiguous way in order to be remembered and not misquoted. Sometimes it will sound blustery and braggadocious. But it’s part of the presentation
Trump is obviously an organized disciplined man to get as far as he’s gotten in life, but yet some will say “he doesn’t have a plan” or “he doesn’t think things through”. That of course is complete nonsense. Just look at his results.
The great Rush Limbaugh said Trump in private talks nothing like the public version. He converses normally, he is a great listener, gets all possible viewpoints, then decides. He brings others into the fold by his decisive action.
He’s an Alpha Man by every definition. He’s also a real man by every definition. He does what he says he’ll do. That’s the #1 measure of authenticity. That’s the message I was trying to get out in my OP about why Trump is do magnetic with women. I hope it’s clear now.

 

[Mashmont]

Well not every woman is capable of obtaining or recognizing the true alpha male. Many get fooled. There is the loud guy that plays the part and fools many. He ends up having several baby mommas that he fooled. Mean while the men in the room typically know who the the baddest mo fo in the room is because we f Ed around and all ready found out. The baddest man in the room doesn't have to say much those around him all ready know.

Then there is Trump who backs up everything he says.

 

[Stryder50]

Specialization:
"Knowing more and more about less and less until you know everything about nothing."

A time and place for everything.
I prefer my auto mechanic is a competent specialist in that field, just like I want my PCP to know medicine.

 

[Woodznutz]

A time and place for everything.
I prefer my auto mechanic is a competent specialist in that field, just like I want my PCP to know medicine.

I would like my PCP to know health as well.

 

[buttercup]

Since this thread is about Trump, there are a couple of things to understand about him. His public persona is a bit different from the private Trump.
It is necessary to communicate in a memorable ambiguous way in order to be remembered and not misquoted. Sometimes it will sound blustery and braggadocious. But it’s part of the presentation
Trump is obviously an organized disciplined man to get as far as he’s gotten in life, but yet some will say “he doesn’t have a plan” or “he doesn’t think things through”. That of course is complete nonsense. Just look at his results.
The great Rush Limbaugh said Trump in private talks nothing like the public version. He converses normally, he is a great listener, gets all possible viewpoints, then decides. He brings others into the fold by his decisive action.
He’s an Alpha Man by every definition. He’s also a real man by every definition. He does what he says he’ll do. That’s the #1 measure of authenticity. That’s the message I was trying to get out in my OP about why Trump is do magnetic with women. I hope it’s clear now.

No, maybe you missed the part in the OP where I said "I don’t want this thread to be only about Trump..." I intentionally said that because I knew that if I didn't make that clear, then the discussion would likely go in that direction. For Heaven's sake, there is more to life than Trump. And although it's true that your thread on him inspired this thread, I wanted this thread to be a deeper discussion on the ideas of alpha males and real men, and if they're the same thing.

As for the rest of your reply, as you already know, I couldn't disagree more with your starry-eyed perception of Trump... And what you've said there. But again, since I don't want this thread to be about him, I'm not going to take that bait and go there. So far this thread has been civil and a good discussion, I don't want that to be ruined by getting into the whole Trump debate. I will say this though...out of ALL the diehard Trump supporters here, I think you are BY FAR the most over-the-top, practically obsessed, starry eyed follower of his. Almost to the point where my tin foil hat kicks in and makes me wonder if you're a paid shill. I'm not saying that that's what I believe, just saying the over-the-top things you say have caused that thought to cross my mind.

I have some real life stuff I have to do, so I gotta get going in a few minutes, but I'll probably be back later. Thanks.

 

[SaxonJackson]

No, this was before he got caught. Charles attracted several women who virtually worshipped him. This was maybe earlier than you were born. They lived in Southern CA on a dumpy piece of land and he got the girls to murder Sharon Tate who was an actress. Then they killed a couple at their home days later. He was a strange person. He did not kill anybody but was sentenced to death. CA aparently felt sorry for killers and converted their sentences to life in prison where he died.

View attachment 1228692

An "alpha" male who was neither rich nor virtuous yet loved and worshipped by women.

 

[Mashmont]

No, maybe you missed the part in the OP where I said "I don’t want this thread to be only about Trump..." I intentionally said that because I knew that if I didn't make that clear, then the discussion would likely go in that direction. For Heaven's sake, there is more to life than Trump. And although it's true that your thread on him inspired this thread, I wanted this thread to be a deeper discussion on the ideas of alpha males and real men, and if they're the same thing.

As for the rest of your reply, as you already know, I couldn't disagree more with your starry-eyed perception of Trump... And what you've said there. But again, since I don't want this thread to be about him, I'm not going to take that bait and go there. So far this thread has been civil and a good discussion, I don't want that to be ruined by getting into the whole Trump debate. I will say this though...out of ALL the diehard Trump supporters here, I think you are BY FAR the most over-the-top, practically obsessed, starry eyed follower of his. Almost to the point where my tin foil hat kicks in and makes me wonder if you're a paid shill. I'm not saying that that's what I believe, just saying the over-the-top things you say have caused that thought to cross my mind.

I have some real life stuff I have to do, so I gotta get going in a few minutes, but I'll probably be back later. Thanks.

But you see, you did want it to be about Trump. You wanted me to respond to your six or seven passive aggressive reactions to my posts in other threads.

I assure you, my approval of Trump is authentic. I like him because he has upheld my conservative values better than any president in my lifetime; lower taxes, roaring economy and stock market, pro-life, removal of DEI, curbing of Democrat cheating in elections, pro-business, removal of regulations, and religious freedom. He has undone so much of the Communist creep going on in our country.

You, on the other hand, claim to be a conservative, yet you have allowed your hatred for Trump cause you to oppose the conservative measures he's implemented, just because you don't like him personally. You objected to ICE doing enforcing immigration law in Minnesota because you don't like Trump. You oppose removal of Iran's nuclear capability because you don't like Trump. You deny the strength of Trump's stock market and the financial benefit to me and my family because you don't like Trump.

Now, to address alpha men versus, real men: Alpha males are those who lead and/or dominate other men and get them to do what they want. You can have good alpha males and bad alpha males. But real men are always good. They do what they say, and have others' best interests at heart. Saddam Hussein was an alpha male, but not a real man. His objective was power and control. Hitler was an alpha male, but not a real man. His objective was power and control. Trump is an alpha man and a real man. He does what he says he will do, and it is for the good of the country. He has all the money he wants, and knows he'll be out of office in three years.

 

[Robert W]

An "alpha" male who was neither rich nor virtuous yet loved and worshipped by women.

I believe that is fair to characterize it that way. Women he could influence though not to say he appealed to many women.

 

[Dragonlady]

What's a man? What's a woman? Anybody in the dumocrap party who can't define what a man is or a woman is probably shouldn't be discussing this in an Internet forum. A better option would be to ask one of your many psychiatrists.

Why do you ask??? Why does this matter so much to you?

Is Michelle Obama a man or a woman???? Quick tell us. Republicans have been saying she's a man for years. So really, who can't tell the difference between a man or a woman?

It's Republicans who are unable to tell who's a man or who's a woman.

 

[Robert W]

Why do you ask??? Why does this matter so much to you?

Good question. Why do you ask? Why does this matter so much to you?

 

[Dragonlady]

Since this thread is about Trump, there are a couple of things to understand about him. His public persona is a bit different from the private Trump.
It is necessary to communicate in a memorable ambiguous way in order to be remembered and not misquoted. Sometimes it will sound blustery and braggadocious. But it’s part of the presentation
Trump is obviously an organized disciplined man to get as far as he’s gotten in life, but yet some will say “he doesn’t have a plan” or “he doesn’t think things through”. That of course is complete nonsense. Just look at his results.
The great Rush Limbaugh said Trump in private talks nothing like the public version. He converses normally, he is a great listener, gets all possible viewpoints, then decides. He brings others into the fold by his decisive action.
He’s an Alpha Man by every definition. He’s also a real man by every definition. He does what he says he’ll do. That’s the #1 measure of authenticity. That’s the message I was trying to get out in my OP about why Trump is do magnetic with women. I hope it’s clear now.

Your post is total bullshit. Trump has ALWAYS been a braggart and a bully. And he's always been vengeful. None of these are the traits of an alpha male.

He is neither organized or disciplined. That's why he's bankrupted 7 companies - a world record and not in a good way. American banks still will not lend him money. He's a conman and a grifter. The only money he has he inherited or stole.

As a former banker, I wondered how anyone could fail that badly 7 times. And then I saw the chaos and incompetence of his first administration.

A "real man" doesn't sexually assault women, ogle underage girls in their dressing room, or call women "piggy". He doesn't humiliate his wife by flaunting his mistresses in public, nor hang out with pedophiles.

Women despise Trump because Trump hates women. They voted against Harris, not for Trump. And more people stayed home, than voted for either one of them.

 

[Mashmont]

Your post is total bullshit. Trump has ALWAYS been a braggart and a bully. And he's always been vengeful. None of these are the traits of an alpha male.

That's the leftwing media version.

He is neither organized or disciplined. That's why he's bankrupted 7 companies - a world record and not in a good way. American banks still will not lend him money. He's a conman and a grifter. The only money he has he inherited or stole.

He's a multi-billionaire. He ran a highly organized business. Or he wouldn't be a multi-billionaire. Think.

As a former banker, I wondered how anyone could fail that badly 7 times. And then I saw the chaos and incompetence of his first administration.

Each business survived the re-organization plan. Trump is a survivor. First term was a tremendous success.

A "real man" doesn't sexually assault women, ogle underage girls in their dressing room, or call women "piggy". He doesn't humiliate his wife by flaunting his mistresses in public, nor hang out with pedophiles.

Trump never assaulted anyone. No evidence he ever did. So what if he called somebody piggy. Big whoop. Nothing compared to what you people call him.

Women despise Trump because Trump hates women. They voted against Harris, not for Trump. And more people stayed home, than voted for either one of them.

Real women love Trump. The pretty ones who are successful in life, married with children. The blue-haired obese ones? Not so much.

 

[SaxonJackson]

But you see, you did want it to be about Trump. You wanted me to respond to your six or seven passive aggressive reactions to my posts in other threads.

I assure you, my approval of Trump is authentic. I like him because he has upheld my conservative values better than any president in my lifetime; lower taxes, roaring economy and stock market, pro-life, removal of DEI, curbing of Democrat cheating in elections, pro-business, removal of regulations, and religious freedom. He has undone so much of the Communist creep going on in our country.

You, on the other hand, claim to be a conservative, yet you have allowed your hatred for Trump cause you to oppose the conservative measures he's implemented, just because you don't like him personally. You objected to ICE doing enforcing immigration law in Minnesota because you don't like Trump. You oppose removal of Iran's nuclear capability because you don't like Trump. You deny the strength of Trump's stock market and the financial benefit to me and my family because you don't like Trump.

Now, to address alpha men versus, real men: Alpha males are those who lead and/or dominate other men and get them to do what they want. You can have good alpha males and bad alpha males. But real men are always good. They do what they say, and have others' best interests at heart. Saddam Hussein was an alpha male, but not a real man. His objective was power and control. Hitler was an alpha male, but not a real man. His objective was power and control. Trump is an alpha man and a real man. He does what he says he will do, and it is for the good of the country. He has all the money he wants, and knows he'll be out of office in three years.

buttercup is perfectly capable of speaking for herself so I'm not going to speak for her. However I would like to address a few of your statements.

It's likely true that buttercup had Trump in mind when she started this thread but there's nothing wrong with that. The fact remains that there is often times a difference between an "Alpha Male" and a "Real Man." It's a question that's been around long before Trump got into politics. It's a question worth asking. And, in Trump's case, it's a question worth answering.

I believe all of us were supportive of Trump during his third campaign. I voted for him three times in a row. I believe he suffered political persecution during four, grueling years of Joe Biden (and even prior to Biden). I donated money to his campaigns and prior to his final run for office, I donned a very large Trump flag from the bed of my pickup truck and drove around town showing my support.

But lets not pretend that "Campaign Trump" and "President Trump" are one and the same. Trump started out strong. I supported ICE. I supported DOGE. I eagerly anticipated his DOJ going after the liars and cheaters in Washington. You know ... the ones who created the "Russia" hoax and the J6, FBI inside job, etc. Had Trump kept his promises, I'd still support him. But such is not the case. To date, nobody has even been questioned (to my knowledge). The sexual predators named in the Epstein list got off scot-free. DOGE was basically dissolved. And ICE lost control of itself on a few occasions.

What do we really know about Trump? Trump was born into a rich family. He was already a millionaire by the age of 8 due to the Trust Funds his father set up for him. So we know he really didn't have to work very hard for his money. He rode into great wealth on his father's coattails. I don't believe there's anything inherently wrong with that but I'm stating it for the record. He was able to avoid the military as many wealthy kids do. He became close friends with Jeffrey Epstein and they both seemed to have an unusually strong attraction to teenage girls. Trump's ego is larger than Jupiter and he has a very bad habit of boasting about his many accomplishments even when some of them are a figment of his imagination. He doesn't mind looking the American people in the eye and lying, outright. Is he an "Alpha Male?" Absolutely. His he a "Real Man?" That's debatable.

We know that he was unfaithful to at least one of his wives. We know that he owned a Beauty Pageant and was willing to walk into the girls' dressing room when they were in various stages of dress. We know that his name is listed multiple times in the Epstein files and that many of those files remain hidden from the public eye and that the files that WERE released have redacted names of non-victims. We know that Trump emphatically called the files a "hoax." We know that Trump called anyone who sought justice for the victims "weaklings" and that he "no longer needed their support." Campaign Trump stated that he would readily release the files. President Trump fought tooth and nail to keep them hidden.

Well, I guess I could right a book but I want to address, specifically, this statement made by you: "... real men are always good. They do what they say, and have others' best interests at heart."

I agree that "real men" "do what they say." This, for me, is the crux of the matter. Trump has literally lied to us and has NOT done much of what he said he would do.

1) He promised no war if he was elected President. Yet he bombed 8 nations in one year. The most of any President in US history. And he got us into a "war of choice."
2) He promised to "drain the swamp" yet D.C. criminals and Epstein predators walk free.
3) He promised to reduce spending but signed a $2.25 Trillion dollar spending bill.
4) He promised to release the files but only did so when forced by Congress and the will of the American people.
5) He promised to end the Russia/Ukraine war but ended up funding it instead.
6) He promised lower grocery prices but most prices (specifically on meat) remain significantly high.
7) The economy, in general, is less than stellar and it doesn't seem to be improving.
8) He called Thomas Massie, MTG, and Rand Paul "traitors" for their attempt to follow the Constitution and for seeking justice for the Epstein victims.
9) If we compare Trump's commitment to the American people vs. his commitment to the Israelis, I'd say it's very clear that Israel comes first. While Americans are suffering, Trump (and Congress) continue to adorn Israel with $Billions of American tax dollars and American made munitions. This is NOT an America first policy.

The bottom line is this: Trump is a literal liar. And Trump is a literal conman. He tricked all of us. In my book, that makes him something other than "a real man."

 

[Robert W]

Your post is total bullshit. Trump has ALWAYS been a braggart and a bully. And he's always been vengeful. None of these are the traits of an alpha male.

He is neither organized or disciplined. That's why he's bankrupted 7 companies - a world record and not in a good way. American banks still will not lend him money. He's a conman and a grifter. The only money he has he inherited or stole.

As a former banker, I wondered how anyone could fail that badly 7 times. And then I saw the chaos and incompetence of his first administration.

A "real man" doesn't sexually assault women, ogle underage girls in their dressing room, or call women "piggy". He doesn't humiliate his wife by flaunting his mistresses in public, nor hang out with pedophiles.

Women despise Trump because Trump hates women. They voted against Harris, not for Trump. And more people stayed home, than voted for either one of them.

Four
The most frequently cited figure in mainstream fact-checking and legal commentary is four Chapter 11 bankruptcy filings involving businesses closely associated with Trump: the Trump Taj Mahal, Trump Plaza, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts, and Trump Entertainment Resorts/related filings around 2009 (sources summarize this as “four” business bankruptcies).

So many false claims. First item, your fake claim he bankrupted 7 companies. The rest of your diatribe you did not even attempt to prove.

 

[Robert W]

Trump has ALWAYS been a braggart

You posted a hell of a litany. So, I picked the one true statement as president. Don't know what he was prior.

Yes, Trump brags. It annoys the hell out of me. He talks for hours too.

When will you sue him?

 

[Dragonlady]

I'm going to skip over the part about Trump, to avoid this thread becoming yet another red team vs blue team bickering session.

But in regard to your last paragraph... It's interesting that you think of it that way. That leads to the question, what makes a true leader? You used the phrase "natural leader"....and I agree that some people are natural leaders. But does that always mean a good and true leader? Maybe this is all subjective. But I believe that a true leader is someone who leads people in the right direction, and someone who can be admired and respected. Do all "natural leaders" fall in that category? I don't think so.

So.... although it may be true that women are attracted to natural leaders.... there has to be something more than just that, in my view. And that gets back to what I said last night, about strength of character, integrity, wisdom, etc. Thanks for your thoughts.

A "natural leader" does not necessarily lead their followers in the "right direction". Think Jim Jones or Charles Manson.

I do agree that a "true leader" has intelligence, wisdom, and character. I have met a few alphas in my work. Highly organized, wonderful to work with. Able to assess your skills and abilities quickly, and to bring out the best in those who surround him/her.

 

[Dragonlady]

Four
The most frequently cited figure in mainstream fact-checking and legal commentary is four Chapter 11 bankruptcy filings involving businesses closely associated with Trump: the Trump Taj Mahal, Trump Plaza, Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts, and Trump Entertainment Resorts/related filings around 2009 (sources summarize this as “four” business bankruptcies).

So many false claims. First item, your fake claim he bankrupted 7 companies. The rest of your diatribe you did not even attempt to prove.

None of the things I posted are false. After the first 4 bankruptcies American banks stopped lending to Trump. And you can whine about it all you want but that won't make these things false no matter how much you deny them.

Trump has publically bragged about sexually assaulting women, and 26 women have confirmed his story that he doesn't ask, he just grabs them by the *****. He talked about walking in on teenage girls on the Howard Stern show.

Have you been living under a rock since 1980???

Everything I posted is matter of public record, and confirmed by Trump himself.

Trump's 7 Bankruptcies:

• Trump Taj Mahal (1991): Filed shortly after opening in Atlantic City.
• Trump Plaza (1992): Atlantic City hotel and casino.
• Trump Castle (1992): Atlantic City casino.
• The Plaza Hotel (1992): New York City hotel.
• Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts (2004): Followed $1.8 billion in debt.
• Trump Entertainment Resorts (2009)
• Trump Hotel Toronto (2016)

Trump bragged that he walked away from his first two bankruptcies with $40 million in his pocket.

There were other failures as well - Trump Resort Puerto Rico springs to mind. That one went bankrupt as well, leaving behind a $30 million dollar account for the installation of municipal services to his resort, unpaid.

 

[Muhammed]

Are you talking about the strange phenomenon of how certain criminals in prison get fan letters from women? Or they get married while they're behind bars? In cases like that, I agree with what Westwall said... it's some sort of psychological disorder.

An inmate on death row can't stalk a woman when she break up with him. Every visit is in a controlled environment. It's a very safe relationship for the woman.

It doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[MostBoringManInTheWorld]

To me, "Alpha male" denotes a man who has intrinsic leadership characteristics, regardless of the direction that leadership might lead. He is the one who, in a group of men, naturally dominates the conversation, and in any decisions that need to be taken by the group, he is usually the one whose viewpoint carries the day. The late Mr. Hitler of Germany was the most obvious Alpha Male of the past hundred years. He took the people of Germany wherever the **** he wanted to take them.

Trump is an "Alpha male," whether you like him or not. He has taken a whole political party and shifted its focus (foci) in the directions he chose, even as they might conflict with previous Republican thinking.

Contrast this with President Clinton, whose "triangulation" strategy was basically to find the current trend, then rush to the head of it, pretending to lead. He did this with welfare "reform," as you might recall.

Thanks for pointing out yet another similarity between those two alpha males.

 

[MostBoringManInTheWorld]

Are you talking about the strange phenomenon of how certain criminals in prison get fan letters from women? Or they get married while they're behind bars? In cases like that, I agree with what Westwall said... it's some sort of psychological disorder.

What about Luigi Mangione?

Is he an alpha male?