Zone1 Alpha Male vs a Real Man... Are They the Same Thing?

[buttercup]

Disclaimer: The following post is just my opinion. So it's OK if we disagree, I'm not stating this as an objective truth that everyone has to agree with.


Is an "alpha male" and a real man the same thing?

This question came to mind while I was reading another thread where people were describing Trump as an “alpha male.” The premise of that thread seemed to be that women love alpha males…and Trump is an alpha male, so that’s why women love Trump. I was going to reply on that thread, but then I figured this is actually an interesting topic that deserves a thread of its own.


I don’t want this thread to be only about Trump, so the only thing I’ll say about him is this...whether he's an alpha male or not, it always surprises me that people think of Trump as attractive. That got me thinking, what makes a man attractive? Is it simply being an alpha male, or is there something more than that? Then I thought, maybe I don't have the right definition of alpha male in mind.

So I looked up the definition, and here’s what I found:


“In a human context, an ‘alpha male’ is typically defined as a man who is dominant, assertive, and occupies a high social or professional status.”
​

Ok, so if an alpha male is simply a man who is dominant, assertive, and has a high social or professional status....that's cool, but to me those qualities alone don’t necessarily make someone attractive. Or a real man, necessarily.

Of course, I can’t speak for all women; I can only speak for myself.


In my view, what good is it to be dominant, confident and assertive...or to have power or social status.…if one doesn’t also have truly admirable qualities like honesty, integrity, honor, and wisdom?


I would say that a real man, and a true leader, is someone who has strength of character, integrity, wisdom, courage, and other qualities that people can genuinely admire and respect....and confidence too. But not the kind of confidence that is pompous or arrogant. I think real confidence is paired with humility. And that may not be a quality that people tend to associate with an "alpha male"...but I would say that a real man or a true leader has humility. I mean, look at Jesus. From a Christian perspective, He is the highest power in the world, the King above all kings, yet he was humble and "lowly." (Matthew 11:29)

So I’m curious to know how other people see this.


Is an “alpha male” the same thing as a real man or a true leader? Or are they two completely different things?

And if you're a woman....is someone being an alpha male all it takes for you, or is there something more that makes a man attractive?

Or is this whole idea of "alpha male" a silly and unimportant concept? lol

 

[LibertyWeeps]

Is an "alpha male" and a real man the same thing?


Psychologically, no, they are not the same thing.

"Alpha" means "first". Whether that means he believes he has to be first in everything, or that he's got to be the first to take charge.
This relates more to ego and narcissism than it does to anything else.

A "real man" is standardly referred to as a male who takes initiative when needed, strength when called for, and intelligence when dealing with life in general. This has nothing to do with ego and narcissism, but everything to do with self-worth and compassion for others.

 

[buttercup]

Is an "alpha male" and a real man the same thing?


Psychologically, no, they are not the same thing.

"Alpha" means "first". Whethere that means he believes he has to be first in everything, or that he's got to be the first to take charge.
This relates more to ego and narcissism than it does to anything else.

A "real man" is standardly referred to as a male who takes initiative when needed, strength when called for, and intelligence when dealing with life in general. This has nothing to do with ego and narcissism, but everything to do with self-worth and compassion for others.

Good concise answer, thanks. You might ruffle some feathers with that answer... because it seems to me that guys always put the whole idea of an "alpha male" on such a pedestal. But as I already said in the OP, I think there's so much more that makes someone a man who people would want to follow. Thanks again.

 

[LibertyWeeps]

Good concise answer, thanks. You might ruffle some feathers with that answer... because it seems to me that guys always put the whole idea of an "alpha male" on such a pedestal. But as I already said in the OP, I think there's so much more that makes someone a man who people would want to follow. Thanks again.

Like I said, one is more "ego" related and the other is more "self-worth" related.

Can the two exist together? Not really. That would be a daily conscious fight that would drive any guy crazy.

Being a good man taking charge is not the same thing. He does it because he sees a need for it, not because he believes himself better than all the other men and HAS to be the only Rooster in the hen house.

 

[MisterBeale]

This is what I think I know. I am more versed on the anthropological basis of attraction than the psychological basis. I never even remember my Jungian profile, most folks have theirs memorized.



With that said, as we are, genetically, now considered just another one of the great apes, like all our other great ape relatives, most females are indeed attracted to the chief of the troupe/tribe, or the alpha male. Power and prestige is a powerful attractant for females of all the great apes. The leader of the troupe has far more access to the most resources for breeding. Security and access to resources generally drive most female survival reproductive strategy.

In our more primitive history, most leaders of the tribes and empires have indeed been alphas.

How Many People Are Related to Genghis Khan? The Genetic Legacy May Surprise You | TheCollector

Just how many descendents did the almighty Mongolian leader leave behind? Incredibly, the answer might span into the millions.

www.thecollector.com

But it is important to remember, just as all men are not alphas, not all women find the alpha as attractive to their genetic profile/reproductive strategy as some of the others.

The majority of men are probably deltas. (No funny jokes on that one for the old members on this forum -- if y'all know what I am talking about there.)

7 Male Personality Types Explained: Alpha, Sigma, & More

How pop culture categorizes male personalities If you've been online recently, you may have heard phrases like "beta" and "sigma" male tossed around. While these terms may (quite literally) sound like a foreign language (because they're...

www.wikihow.com

One caveat, those old classifications aren't really the most used classification of personalities anymore. Most folks use the Jungian model.

Jung Personality Types: The Model of Typology | Psychologia

All you need to know about Jung's personality theory, psychological types, and tests.

psychologia.co

https://www.16personalities.com/personality-types

. . and here too, different types of personalities are generally compatible with various different specific types. . but a lot of attraction is more dependent on genetics. . i.e. non-verbal cues hard-wired into mannerisms & chemical compatibility, (pheromones,) and is not as dependent on these types. This is why on-line dating has always been inferior to meeting a mate . . . "in the wild."

Compatibility of Personality Types: How Different People Connect & Work

Discover the Compatibility of Personality Types and how different traits connect. Learn how strengths and differences shape deeper, more lasting bonds.

discpersonalities.com

 

[buttercup]

This is what I think I know. I am more versed on the anthropological basis of attraction than the psychological basis. I never even remember my Jungian profile, most folks have theirs memorized.



With that said, as we are, genetically, now considered just another one of the great apes, like all our other great ape relatives, most females are indeed attracted to the chief of the troupe/tribe, or the alpha male. Power and prestige is a powerful attractant for females of all the great apes. The leader of the troupe has far more access to the most resources for breeding. Security and access to resources generally drive most female survival reproductive strategy.

In our more primitive history, most leaders of the tribes and empires have indeed been alphas.

How Many People Are Related to Genghis Khan? The Genetic Legacy May Surprise You | TheCollector

Just how many descendents did the almighty Mongolian leader leave behind? Incredibly, the answer might span into the millions.

www.thecollector.com

But it is important to remember, just as all men are not alphas, not all women find the alpha as attractive to their genetic profile/reproductive strategy as some of the others.

The majority of men are probably deltas. (No funny jokes on that one for the old members on this forum -- if y'all know what I am talking about there.)
View attachment 1228376

7 Male Personality Types Explained: Alpha, Sigma, & More

How pop culture categorizes male personalities If you've been online recently, you may have heard phrases like "beta" and "sigma" male tossed around. While these terms may (quite literally) sound like a foreign language (because they're...

www.wikihow.com

One caveat, those old classifications aren't really the most used classification of personalities anymore. Most folks use the Jungian model.

Jung Personality Types: The Model of Typology | Psychologia

All you need to know about Jung's personality theory, psychological types, and tests.

psychologia.co

https://www.16personalities.com/personality-types

View attachment 1228377

. . and here too, different types of personalities are generally compatible with various different specific types. . but a lot of attraction is more dependent on genetics. . i.e. non-verbal cues hard-wired into mannerisms & chemical compatibility, (pheromones,) and is not as dependent on these types. This is why on-line dating has always been inferior to meeting a mate . . . "in the wild."

Compatibility of Personality Types: How Different People Connect & Work

Discover the Compatibility of Personality Types and how different traits connect. Learn how strengths and differences shape deeper, more lasting bonds.

discpersonalities.com

Well...I disagree with the whole idea that humans are just animals, and great great great great great etc Grandpa was an ape. So, while the idea of "alpha males" may be true in the animal world, I don't agree that it's the same with humans. Yes, it's true that women want security, and if they want a family, they look for a man who is capable of being a provider and protecter... But as I said, there's so much more that makes someone attractive, and a true leader. I mean, wouldn't you agree that a man can be a good provider, but not a good partner? What about a rich man who gives his wife everything she wants materially, but is off boinking the secretary? Obviously there's more to it than just how animals operate in the wild.

 

[SaxonJackson]

Alpha Male vs a Real Man... Are They the Same Thing?​

They can be the same thing. I personally believe a real man should have a little "alpha" in him but he shouldn't allow it to dominate his life. In other words, a real man should focus on his responsibilities. That is, he should provide for his family. He should prepare for the future including potential crises. He should be humble, gentle, kind, cheerful, thoughtful, honest, and charitable while being able to "step up to the plate" to confront evil if or when necessary. He should be productive. He should maintain his health -- not only for his own benefit but for the benefit of others. A sickly, weak man can be a burden on his family. So eating right and exercising should be a part of his daily regimen. Most of all, a real man should seek the will of God and reflect it in his daily life as much as possible. No man is perfect but some are more perfect than others.

 

[MisterBeale]

So I’m curious to know how other people see this.

Yup, just letting you know.

.I disagree with the whole idea that humans are just animals

I know, I could have guessed as much. No worries, you do you, and I'll do me.

 

[odanny]

In our more primitive history, most leaders of the tribes and empires have indeed been alphas.

They were usually the most violent, and they eliminated their rivals. That is indeed true. The same holds true in modern society, from gang leaders to the bosses of the mafia families. In business, many business leaders have used a more subtle approach without violence in rising to the top, and they often have personality traits that are undesirable, being very opinionated, punitive, arrogant, and demanding.

Sadly, these traits can often propel someone into top business leadership positions, largely by reasons of necessity (no one else willing to step forward).

 

[MisterBeale]

I mean, wouldn't you agree that a man can be a good provider, but not a good partner?

I generally don't like to comment on the dynamics of other people's relationships. All couples seem to be unique.

I do subscribe to the notion that there is someone for everyone. . just good luck finding that.

 

[buttercup]

Alpha Male vs a Real Man... Are They the Same Thing?​

They can be the same thing. I personally believe a real man should have a little "alpha" in him but he shouldn't allow it to dominate his life. In other words, a real man should focus on his responsibilities. That is, he should provide for his family. He should prepare for the future including potential crises. He should be humble, gentle, kind, cheerful, thoughtful, honest, and charitable while being able to "step up to the plate" to confront evil if or when necessary. He should be productive. He should maintain his health -- not only for his own benefit but for the benefit of others. A sickly, weak man can be a burden on his family. So eating right and exercising should be a part of his daily regimen. Most of all, a real man should seek the will of God and reflect it in his daily life as much as possible. No man is perfect but some are more perfect than others.

Thanks so much for your thoughts on this. I couldn't agree more... especially with your "most of all" point in the second to last sentence. I didn't get into that in the OP, because then I probably would have had to post this in the Religion section. But I absolutely agree that seeking God's will is the best and WISEST thing that anyone can do. It took me a looooong time to learn that...and I had to learn it the hard way, but I finally learned. I also think that how one prioritizes their life is important. If God isn't put first, then everything else is out of whack. Thanks again for your reply.

 

[MisterBeale]

They were usually the most violent, and they eliminated their rivals.

In two of the other great apes, that is how it works. Gorillas far less often than Chimpanzees. And of course, chimps branched off the most recently to us and our ancestors.

Orangutans are unique because they are so solitary.


. . and who knows about Bigfoot. . .

 

[SaxonJackson]

Good concise answer, thanks. You might ruffle some feathers with that answer... because it seems to me that guys always put the whole idea of an "alpha male" on such a pedestal. But as I already said in the OP, I think there's so much more that makes someone a man who people would want to follow. Thanks again.

My opinion:

I've known a number of men who feel a need to boast and brag and pat themselves on the back as a matter of routine. I've always been repulsed by their behavior and avoid them when possible. I personally believe these sorts of men are covering for an inner weakness. Perhaps they're cowards in real life. It's like the men who are exposed for "stolen valor." Men who claim to be military tacticians but have never spent any time in the military. Men who boast about how courageous they are but have never had to face an enemy on the battlefield or in a backstreet ally.

I can't help but think of the Lindsay Grahams of the world. Pansies who routinely push for war from the comfort of their warm and protected offices. Quick to send YOUR KIDS into battle while watching (and cheering) from afar.

 

[buttercup]

My opinion:

I've known a number of men who feel a need to boast and brag and pat themselves on the back as a matter of routine. I've always been repulsed by their behavior and avoid them when possible. I personally believe these sorts of men are covering for an inner weakness. Perhaps they're cowards in real life. It's like the men who are exposed for "stolen valor." Men who claim to be military tacticians but have never spent any time in the military. Men who boast about how courageous they are but have never had to face an enemy on the battlefield or in a backstreet ally.

I can't help but think of the Lindsay Grahams of the world. Pansies who routinely push for war from the comfort of their warm and protected offices. Quick to send YOUR KIDS into battle while watching (and cheering) from afar.

Man, speaking of armchair warmongers...that might be a good thread in and of itself. What is that makes some people have that "kill em all" mindset and bloodlust, but would probably never themselves volunteer to be on the front line? Lindsey Graham is indeed a good example.

But anyway, again I agree with pretty much everything you said, thanks.

 

[22lcidw]

Man, speaking of armchair warmongers...that might be a good thread in and of itself. What is that makes some people have that "kill em all" mindset and bloodlust, but would probably never themselves volunteer to be on the front line? Lindsey Graham is indeed a good example.

But anyway, again I agree with pretty much everything you said, thanks.

Alpha males can be pure animals with disregard for everything and also men who take care of all of their responsibilities.

 

[westwall]

Disclaimer: The following post is just my opinion. So it's OK if we disagree, I'm not stating this as an objective truth that everyone has to agree with.


Is an "alpha male" and a real man the same thing?

This question came to mind while I was reading another thread where people were describing Trump as an “alpha male.” The premise of that thread seemed to be that women love alpha males…and Trump is an alpha male, so that’s why women love Trump. I was going to reply on that thread, but then I figured this is actually an interesting topic that deserves a thread of its own.


I don’t want this thread to be only about Trump, so the only thing I’ll say about him is this...whether he's an alpha male or not, it always surprises me that people think of Trump as attractive. That got me thinking, what makes a man attractive? Is it simply being an alpha male, or is there something more than that? Then I thought, maybe I don't have the right definition of alpha male in mind.

So I looked up the definition, and here’s what I found:


“In a human context, an ‘alpha male’ is typically defined as a man who is dominant, assertive, and occupies a high social or professional status.”
​

Ok, so if an alpha male is simply a man who is dominant, assertive, and has a high social or professional status....that's cool, but to me those qualities alone don’t necessarily make someone attractive. Or a real man, necessarily.

Of course, I can’t speak for all women; I can only speak for myself.


In my view, what good is it to be dominant, confident and assertive...or to have power or social status.…if one doesn’t also have truly admirable qualities like honesty, integrity, honor, and wisdom?


I would say that a real man, and a true leader, is someone who has strength of character, integrity, wisdom, courage, and other qualities that people can genuinely admire and respect....and confidence too. But not the kind of confidence that is pompous or arrogant. I think real confidence is paired with humility. And that may not be a quality that people tend to associate with an "alpha male"...but I would say that a real man or a true leader has humility. I mean, look at Jesus. From a Christian perspective, He is the highest power in the world, the King above all kings, yet he was humble and "lowly." (Matthew 11:29)

So I’m curious to know how other people see this.


Is an “alpha male” the same thing as a real man or a true leader? Or are they two completely different things?

And if you're a woman....is someone being an alpha male all it takes for you, or is there something more that makes a man attractive?

Or is this whole idea of "alpha male" a silly and unimportant concept? lol

No, they aren't. A real man doesn't need to be aggressive, assertive or dominating.

Real men tend to avoid confrontation until absolutely necessary.

Then they simply finish it.

 

[buttercup]

Alpha males can be pure animals with disregard for everything and also men who take care of all of their responsibilities.

I tend to agree that being an alpha male, and being a real man or true leader aren't mutually exclusive. Again I can't speak for all women, but I think it's safe to say that many women would be most attracted to someone who is both...as opposed to someone who is in that first category you described. Thanks.

No, they aren't. A real man doesn't need to be aggressive, assertive or dominating.

Real men tend to avoid confrontation until absolutely necessary.

Then they simply finish it.

It's interesting to hear the different thoughts on this, thank you. Good point that real men don't go out aggressively seeking confrontation (like young guys who get into fights for stupid reasons, at the drop of a hat.) I think that self-control is a very important and admirable trait, that is part of being mature and wise. Thanks again.

 

[buttercup]

I just realized that no women have replied to this thread so far. I think it was kinda quiet here on USMB tonight. I hope tomorrow some women will chime in.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Disclaimer: The following post is just my opinion. So it's OK if we disagree, I'm not stating this as an objective truth that everyone has to agree with.


Is an "alpha male" and a real man the same thing?

This question came to mind while I was reading another thread where people were describing Trump as an “alpha male.” The premise of that thread seemed to be that women love alpha males…and Trump is an alpha male, so that’s why women love Trump. I was going to reply on that thread, but then I figured this is actually an interesting topic that deserves a thread of its own.


I don’t want this thread to be only about Trump, so the only thing I’ll say about him is this...whether he's an alpha male or not, it always surprises me that people think of Trump as attractive. That got me thinking, what makes a man attractive? Is it simply being an alpha male, or is there something more than that? Then I thought, maybe I don't have the right definition of alpha male in mind.

So I looked up the definition, and here’s what I found:


“In a human context, an ‘alpha male’ is typically defined as a man who is dominant, assertive, and occupies a high social or professional status.”
​

Ok, so if an alpha male is simply a man who is dominant, assertive, and has a high social or professional status....that's cool, but to me those qualities alone don’t necessarily make someone attractive. Or a real man, necessarily.

Of course, I can’t speak for all women; I can only speak for myself.


In my view, what good is it to be dominant, confident and assertive...or to have power or social status.…if one doesn’t also have truly admirable qualities like honesty, integrity, honor, and wisdom?


I would say that a real man, and a true leader, is someone who has strength of character, integrity, wisdom, courage, and other qualities that people can genuinely admire and respect....and confidence too. But not the kind of confidence that is pompous or arrogant. I think real confidence is paired with humility. And that may not be a quality that people tend to associate with an "alpha male"...but I would say that a real man or a true leader has humility. I mean, look at Jesus. From a Christian perspective, He is the highest power in the world, the King above all kings, yet he was humble and "lowly." (Matthew 11:29)

So I’m curious to know how other people see this.


Is an “alpha male” the same thing as a real man or a true leader? Or are they two completely different things?

And if you're a woman....is someone being an alpha male all it takes for you, or is there something more that makes a man attractive?

Or is this whole idea of "alpha male" a silly and unimportant concept? lol

I would say we grew up in the best times to be kids, and became adults in the worst time to be an adult.

The days of just being a kid, a woman, or bloke are long gone. It's all overly analysed and trying to work out who's carrying the handbag.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

People obviously watch too many movies and are heavily influenced by Hollywood stereotypes.

Just be yourselves.

Well, unless you're Charles Manson, or Pee Wee Herman. Then you should be anybody else but yourself.