Zone1 Alpha Male vs a Real Man... Are They the Same Thing?

[MostBoringManInTheWorld]

People obviously watch too many movies and are heavily influenced by Hollywood stereotypes.

Just be yourselves.

Well, unless you're Charles Manson, or Pee Wee Herman. Then you should be anybody else but yourself.

What's wrong with being Pee-Wee Herman?

 

[MostBoringManInTheWorld]

"One who conquers himself is greater than one who conquers a thousand men in battle." -- The Dhammapada

"He who is slow to anger is better than a warrior, and he who controls his temper is greater than one who captures a city." -- Proverbs 16:32

 

[evenflow1969]

Disclaimer: The following post is just my opinion. So it's OK if we disagree, I'm not stating this as an objective truth that everyone has to agree with.


Is an "alpha male" and a real man the same thing?

This question came to mind while I was reading another thread where people were describing Trump as an “alpha male.” The premise of that thread seemed to be that women love alpha males…and Trump is an alpha male, so that’s why women love Trump. I was going to reply on that thread, but then I figured this is actually an interesting topic that deserves a thread of its own.


I don’t want this thread to be only about Trump, so the only thing I’ll say about him is this...whether he's an alpha male or not, it always surprises me that people think of Trump as attractive. That got me thinking, what makes a man attractive? Is it simply being an alpha male, or is there something more than that? Then I thought, maybe I don't have the right definition of alpha male in mind.

So I looked up the definition, and here’s what I found:


“In a human context, an ‘alpha male’ is typically defined as a man who is dominant, assertive, and occupies a high social or professional status.”
​

Ok, so if an alpha male is simply a man who is dominant, assertive, and has a high social or professional status....that's cool, but to me those qualities alone don’t necessarily make someone attractive. Or a real man, necessarily.

Of course, I can’t speak for all women; I can only speak for myself.


In my view, what good is it to be dominant, confident and assertive...or to have power or social status.…if one doesn’t also have truly admirable qualities like honesty, integrity, honor, and wisdom?


I would say that a real man, and a true leader, is someone who has strength of character, integrity, wisdom, courage, and other qualities that people can genuinely admire and respect....and confidence too. But not the kind of confidence that is pompous or arrogant. I think real confidence is paired with humility. And that may not be a quality that people tend to associate with an "alpha male"...but I would say that a real man or a true leader has humility. I mean, look at Jesus. From a Christian perspective, He is the highest power in the world, the King above all kings, yet he was humble and "lowly." (Matthew 11:29)

So I’m curious to know how other people see this.


Is an “alpha male” the same thing as a real man or a true leader? Or are they two completely different things?

And if you're a woman....is someone being an alpha male all it takes for you, or is there something more that makes a man attractive?

Or is this whole idea of "alpha male" a silly and unimportant concept? lol

Well not every woman is capable of obtaining or recognizing the true alpha male. Many get fooled. There is the loud guy that plays the part and fools many. He ends up having several baby mommas that he fooled. Mean while the men in the room typically know who the the baddest mo fo in the room is because we f Ed around and all ready found out. The baddest man in the room doesn't have to say much those around him all ready know.

 

[Dorian Mode]

The difference between Alpha Male and Real Man depends on your political preference. Among the American left, almost all biological males have done everything possible to stop being males and become women, even though "woman" can't be defined with modern linguistics. So, if you are a female leftist, looking for an Alpha Male or a Real Man means searching for someone outside of your political preference and be warned that you will not agree with anything they say or do. If you are not a leftist, you must realize that dualities are a bad way to define anything, as there is always a smooth continuum that can often change from one point in time to another.

 

[Hafar1014]

Disclaimer: The following post is just my opinion. So it's OK if we disagree, I'm not stating this as an objective truth that everyone has to agree with.


Is an "alpha male" and a real man the same thing?

This question came to mind while I was reading another thread where people were describing Trump as an “alpha male.” The premise of that thread seemed to be that women love alpha males…and Trump is an alpha male, so that’s why women love Trump. I was going to reply on that thread, but then I figured this is actually an interesting topic that deserves a thread of its own.


I don’t want this thread to be only about Trump, so the only thing I’ll say about him is this...whether he's an alpha male or not, it always surprises me that people think of Trump as attractive. That got me thinking, what makes a man attractive? Is it simply being an alpha male, or is there something more than that? Then I thought, maybe I don't have the right definition of alpha male in mind.

So I looked up the definition, and here’s what I found:


“In a human context, an ‘alpha male’ is typically defined as a man who is dominant, assertive, and occupies a high social or professional status.”
​

Ok, so if an alpha male is simply a man who is dominant, assertive, and has a high social or professional status....that's cool, but to me those qualities alone don’t necessarily make someone attractive. Or a real man, necessarily.

Of course, I can’t speak for all women; I can only speak for myself.


In my view, what good is it to be dominant, confident and assertive...or to have power or social status.…if one doesn’t also have truly admirable qualities like honesty, integrity, honor, and wisdom?


I would say that a real man, and a true leader, is someone who has strength of character, integrity, wisdom, courage, and other qualities that people can genuinely admire and respect....and confidence too. But not the kind of confidence that is pompous or arrogant. I think real confidence is paired with humility. And that may not be a quality that people tend to associate with an "alpha male"...but I would say that a real man or a true leader has humility. I mean, look at Jesus. From a Christian perspective, He is the highest power in the world, the King above all kings, yet he was humble and "lowly." (Matthew 11:29)

So I’m curious to know how other people see this.


Is an “alpha male” the same thing as a real man or a true leader? Or are they two completely different things?

And if you're a woman....is someone being an alpha male all it takes for you, or is there something more that makes a man attractive?

Or is this whole idea of "alpha male" a silly and unimportant concept? lol

An alpha male can be good or bad so what matters is what they do not who they are.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

I just realized that no women have replied to this thread so far. I think it was kinda quiet here on USMB tonight. I hope tomorrow some women will chime in.

Well, MisterBeale knows what his 'Jungian profile' is.

That's pretty gay; doesn't that count?

 

[EdwinAMartin]

What's wrong with being Pee-Wee Herman?

Great role model, if you're hoping for an appearance on Ru Paul's Drag Race or something.

 

[DGS49]

To me, "Alpha male" denotes a man who has intrinsic leadership characteristics, regardless of the direction that leadership might lead. He is the one who, in a group of men, naturally dominates the conversation, and in any decisions that need to be taken by the group, he is usually the one whose viewpoint carries the day. The late Mr. Hitler of Germany was the most obvious Alpha Male of the past hundred years. He took the people of Germany wherever the **** he wanted to take them.

Trump is an "Alpha male," whether you like him or not. He has taken a whole political party and shifted its focus (foci) in the directions he chose, even as they might conflict with previous Republican thinking.

Contrast this with President Clinton, whose "triangulation" strategy was basically to find the current trend, then rush to the head of it, pretending to lead. He did this with welfare "reform," as you might recall.

 

[Dorian Mode]

To me, "Alpha male" denotes a man who has intrinsic leadership characteristics, regardless of the direction that leadership might lead. He is the one who, in a group of men, naturally dominates the conversation, and in any decisions that need to be taken by the group, he is usually the one whose viewpoint carries the day. The late Mr. Hitler of Germany was the most obvious Alpha Male of the past hundred years. He took the people of Germany wherever the **** he wanted to take them.

Trump is an "Alpha male," whether you like him or not. He has taken a whole political party and shifted its focus (foci) in the directions he chose, even as they might conflict with previous Republican thinking.

Contrast this with President Clinton, whose "triangulation" strategy was basically to find the current trend, then rush to the head of it, pretending to lead. He did this with welfare "reform," as you might recall.

Contrast Trump with Carter. Carter was scared to make unpopular decisions and to make his adversaries respect and fear him and it cost him reelection. Since Iran is in play now, who remembers how confident Iran was during Carter and then the sudden change to fear when Reagan took over? They immediately gave back the hostages to not get bombed back to the stone age. Reagan should have taken that momentum and done what Trump just did. Alpha Males command respect and get things done, brutally if necessary. Now if people want a man who will hide even behind a frail "woman" in times of crisis, there are a lot of dumocrap men available for those tasks.

 

[odanny]

Contrast Trump with Carter. Carter was scared to make unpopular decisions and to make his adversaries respect and fear him and it cost him reelection. Since Iran is in play now, who remembers how confident Iran was during Carter and then the sudden change to fear when Reagan took over? They immediately gave back the hostages to not get bombed back to the stone age. Reagan should have taken that momentum and done what Trump just did. Alpha Males command respect and get things done, brutally if necessary. Now if people want a man who will hide even behind a frail "woman" in times of crisis, there are a lot of dumocrap men available for those tasks.

You know so little.

You're very dumb, and you probably think you're an Alpha. However, what works in your favor is many so-called Alpha's have more testosterone than they do brains. We know you're lacking one of those two.

 

[Dragonlady]

Disclaimer: The following post is just my opinion. So it's OK if we disagree, I'm not stating this as an objective truth that everyone has to agree with.


Is an "alpha male" and a real man the same thing?

This question came to mind while I was reading another thread where people were describing Trump as an “alpha male.” The premise of that thread seemed to be that women love alpha males…and Trump is an alpha male, so that’s why women love Trump. I was going to reply on that thread, but then I figured this is actually an interesting topic that deserves a thread of its own.


I don’t want this thread to be only about Trump, so the only thing I’ll say about him is this...whether he's an alpha male or not, it always surprises me that people think of Trump as attractive. That got me thinking, what makes a man attractive? Is it simply being an alpha male, or is there something more than that? Then I thought, maybe I don't have the right definition of alpha male in mind.

So I looked up the definition, and here’s what I found:


“In a human context, an ‘alpha male’ is typically defined as a man who is dominant, assertive, and occupies a high social or professional status.”
​

Ok, so if an alpha male is simply a man who is dominant, assertive, and has a high social or professional status....that's cool, but to me those qualities alone don’t necessarily make someone attractive. Or a real man, necessarily.

Of course, I can’t speak for all women; I can only speak for myself.


In my view, what good is it to be dominant, confident and assertive...or to have power or social status.…if one doesn’t also have truly admirable qualities like honesty, integrity, honor, and wisdom?


I would say that a real man, and a true leader, is someone who has strength of character, integrity, wisdom, courage, and other qualities that people can genuinely admire and respect....and confidence too. But not the kind of confidence that is pompous or arrogant. I think real confidence is paired with humility. And that may not be a quality that people tend to associate with an "alpha male"...but I would say that a real man or a true leader has humility. I mean, look at Jesus. From a Christian perspective, He is the highest power in the world, the King above all kings, yet he was humble and "lowly." (Matthew 11:29)

So I’m curious to know how other people see this.


Is an “alpha male” the same thing as a real man or a true leader? Or are they two completely different things?

And if you're a woman....is someone being an alpha male all it takes for you, or is there something more that makes a man attractive?

Or is this whole idea of "alpha male" a silly and unimportant concept? lol

Trump is not and has never been an "alpha male". Trump is weak beta who longs to be respected. He is extremely insecure and cannot stand to be questioned, and needs constant praise and gratitude. He humiliates those who disagree with him, and is very vengeful. These traits are never found in alphas.

Trump is easily manipulated. He flip flops and changes his mind based on who he talked to last. He is obsessed with "winning". These are not the traits of an alpha male. And he cannot stand to be questioned, criticized, or challenged.

Alpha males are natural leaders. They don't need to threaten or bully anyone to get them to follow them. The are intelligent, assertive and confident, and they inspire confidence in those they lead.

 

[Dorian Mode]

Trump is not and has never been an "alpha male". Trump is weak beta who longs to be respected. He is extremely insecure and cannot stand to be questioned, and needs constant praise and gratitude. He humiliates those who disagree with him, and is very vengeful. These traits are never found in alphas.

Trump is easily manipulated. He flip flops and changes his mind based on who he talked to last. He is obsessed with "winning". These are not the traits of an alpha male. And he cannot stand to be questioned, criticized, or challenged.

Alpha males are natural leaders. They don't need to threaten or bully anyone to get them to follow them. The are intelligent, assertive and confident, and they inspire confidence in those they lead.

What's a man? What's a woman? Anybody in the dumocrap party who can't define what a man is or a woman is probably shouldn't be discussing this in an Internet forum. A better option would be to ask one of your many psychiatrists.

 

[Woodznutz]

Leadership and attraction say it all.

 

[buttercup]

"One who conquers himself is greater than one who conquers a thousand men in battle." -- The Dhammapada

"He who is slow to anger is better than a warrior, and he who controls his temper is greater than one who captures a city." -- Proverbs 16:32

I love those! Excellent quotes, thanks.

 

[buttercup]

The difference between Alpha Male and Real Man depends on your political preference. Among the American left, almost all biological males have done everything possible to stop being males and become women, even though "woman" can't be defined with modern linguistics. So, if you are a female leftist, looking for an Alpha Male or a Real Man means searching for someone outside of your political preference and be warned that you will not agree with anything they say or do. If you are not a leftist, you must realize that dualities are a bad way to define anything, as there is always a smooth continuum that can often change from one point in time to another.

When I put together this thread, I wasn't thinking of it in a political way at all. I wanted to try to go deeper than that. So I prefer that the thread doesn't get derailed and go the usual same old D vs R bickering.

But I do agree with you that "progressive" ideology attempts to destroy traditional ideas about what a man is and what a woman is. Personally I think that behind that it's a spiritual thing....It's the enemy creating confusion and inverting truth.

That said, I also think that the whole idea of an "alpha male" seems to go along more with the Darwinian worldview that humans are just animals. And as other people have mentioned.... one can be an "alpha male" but a bad person.... So that's why I'm asking the question of this thread. And I'm glad to see that most here agree with me that just because someone is an alpha male, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're a real man or a true leader. (When I say true leader I mean a good leader who people can actually look up to and trust.) Thanks.

 

[LibertyWeeps]

Yes, the females are attracted to the "most dominant" because females have been bred to give in to the males. And the males with the most dominance has the most power and usually gets what he wants with ease. Which is why the females like to be lazy and have things handed to them, when they attach themselves to the dominant male of the pack.

This is how the human base mentality is for women in the human world. It's not much different.
BUT, the difference between animal females and human females is WHAT they are attracted to.
Some human females are attracted to being lazy, therefore attracted to the "bad boys", "alpha male", "go getter", even "abusers".
While females who are more geared towards empathy for others and caring for others, are attracted to the male who they see can provide the best for them. Farmers, ditch diggers, builders, handymen, construction, even scientists.......because the women attracted to these types are looking for "home, hearth, and family". And these type of males are hard working, loyal, and take pride in what they've accomplished.

As a lot of women have told me in my lifetime......................when they are young, they are attracted to the "bad boy", "alpha male" types because of the instant gratification that is given to them. But when their "biological clock" starts ticking, they realize that the alphas are all talk and no work. And in order for a woman to get the home, hearth, and family she wants, she has to have a worker male. So their stance changes on what type of male they want for themselves.

Sure, many women, like my sister, convince themselves that the "bad boys" or alphas are the only ones worth having.........but they end up having lives of hardships because of it.

My sister is 59 years old, still attracted to the alpha males, and still has nothing to show for it but a long, hard life of abuse, mistreatment, lies, and being used. And she STILL thinks working men are worthless.

She's got 5 kids from different men, her longest marriage was 3 years I think. Most of her "marriages" end after 6 months or a year.
I've lost count of how many "boyfriends" she's gone thru since she finally gave up on marriage. She still dresses like she's 22 years old.
She's starved herself of food to stay pencil thin and had tummy tucks to keep from getting that "flabby old woman stomach".
And she still parties like she's 19.

If she had been seriously attracted to ANY working man in her life, she talked herself out of him. Funny thing is.........two of the "bad boys" she married ended up being working men, who I liked very much. But she ended up divorcing, because I liked them and thought they would be good for her. And they were, but she CANNOT be attached to any man who anyone considers "good for her".

Men can change as well. Most alphas will reason with themselves at some point, usually in their 20s or 30s and decide that they've had enough "fun" and need to "get serious and settle down". So they become working men. And women like my sister just can't change with them, stand behind them, or even live with the fact they became working men.

Point being, there are alphas for life then there are alphas who change. Is it a bad or good thing? Depends on the man.
There's a lot of "gray" area when it comes to change and getting older. But those who never change are bound to live a life similar to my sisters..............male or female. But, she made her choice, and she has to live with the outcomes of her decisions.

 

[Chuz Life]

If a man is a woman if and when he chooses to identify as a woman, and a woman is a man, if and when she identifies as a man,. . . There are no distinctions that can possibly be made between a "real man" and an "alpha male."

The only thing that matters is "how do they self-identify?"

 

[Woodznutz]

The moral strength of an alpha male can shape the behavior of the group he is associated with, usually without saying a word.

 

[buttercup]

Trump is not and has never been an "alpha male". Trump is weak beta who longs to be respected. He is extremely insecure and cannot stand to be questioned, and needs constant praise and gratitude. He humiliates those who disagree with him, and is very vengeful. These traits are never found in alphas.

Trump is easily manipulated. He flip flops and changes his mind based on who he talked to last. He is obsessed with "winning". These are not the traits of an alpha male. And he cannot stand to be questioned, criticized, or challenged.

Alpha males are natural leaders. They don't need to threaten or bully anyone to get them to follow them. The are intelligent, assertive and confident, and they inspire confidence in those they lead.

I'm going to skip over the part about Trump, to avoid this thread becoming yet another red team vs blue team bickering session.

But in regard to your last paragraph... It's interesting that you think of it that way. That leads to the question, what makes a true leader? You used the phrase "natural leader"....and I agree that some people are natural leaders. But does that always mean a good and true leader? Maybe this is all subjective. But I believe that a true leader is someone who leads people in the right direction, and someone who can be admired and respected. Do all "natural leaders" fall in that category? I don't think so.

So.... although it may be true that women are attracted to natural leaders.... there has to be something more than just that, in my view. And that gets back to what I said last night, about strength of character, integrity, wisdom, etc. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Dorian Mode]

When I put together this thread, I wasn't thinking of it in a political way at all. I wanted to try to go deeper than that. So I prefer that the thread doesn't get derailed and go the usual same old D vs R bickering.

But I do agree with you that "progressive" ideology attempts to destroy traditional ideas about what a man is and what a woman is. Personally I think that behind that it's a spiritual thing....It's the enemy creating confusion and inverting truth.

That said, I also think that the whole idea of an "alpha male" seems to go along more with the Darwinian worldview that humans are just animals. And as other people have mentioned.... one can be an "alpha male" but a bad person.... So that's why I'm asking the question of this thread. And I'm glad to see that most here agree with me that just because someone is an alpha male, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're a real man or a true leader. (When I say true leader I mean a good leader who people can actually look up to and trust.) Thanks.

Alpha men can be cold hearted killers. So can real men. So can Beta simps. So can a woman, whatever that word means. Trying to understand a duality of Alpha vs. something else is an exercise in futility because psychological traits run in a continuum, not as a mutually exclusive duality. Ditto for Good vs. Evil. That is another duality that actually exists as a continuum. What you are asking for is an analysis of the intersection of two disparate continuums.