U.N. rights inquiry says Israel must remove settlers

[member]

Sunni Man: "Israel is a terrorist state masquerading as a peace loving nation. It's mafia style Mossad enforcement arm works endlessly to keep neighbor nations in constant turmoil."


". . .And is ruled by paranoid Zionists with a psychotic agenda based on racism and fascist principals.".

i bet you said that with a straight face

"with a psychotic agenda..."

 

[P F Tinmore]

When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, sympathetic consideration should he given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.
SOURCE: ODS HOME PAGE

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ODS HOME PAGE

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

So, your objection is the way it passed?

The Palestinian as a victim.

Of course that is not true. It is a fact that the UN General Assembly passed resolution 181 (there were bribes, threats, and arm twisting to get the votes, but that is another story for another day) Resolution 181 was a recommendation that if approved by both sides the Security Council was to implement it. It was not approved by both sides so the Security Council did not implement it. There was no resolution 181. It did nothing.

(COMMENT)

I'm find it interesting that the Palestinian should suggest that "there were bribes, threats, and arm twisting to get the votes." I see that argument really isn't over the validity of the GA Resolution 181, but rather the soundness of its passage. Is the contention that the world conspired against the Palestinian?

"But that is another story for another day." Well another day is here. What is the story?

Most Respectfully,
R

Both the Jewish and Arab sides began to lobby the UN’s then 56 member states. To pass, the resolution needed a two-thirds majority. According to a speech made by British MP Richard Stokes to Parliament two weeks after the vote, “had the votes been taken on 26th November, partition would have been defeated by 30 votes in favor, and 18 votes against.”

However, a telegram signed by 26 US senators was circulated to the countries currently undecided, containing the veiled threat of the revocation of American foreign aid if they did not support the resolution.

The 64th Anniversary of United Nations Resolution 181 (VIDEO) / Jspace News

Why do you never believe anything I say?

(COMMENT)

You don't approve of the way the US conducts foreign policy? Well, join the line and buy a ticket. More than half the world is in that line. That is politics, and I think it is widely known, in this discussion group, that I am not a proponent of US Interventionist policy.

In world timeline, there is an infinite number of alternative histories that we could discuss. The kids call this role-playing. But this is not the TV Show "The Big Bang" and we are not playing the game ---> Counter-Factuals:

[ame=http://youtu.be/0lpY0Kt4bn8]The Big Bang Theory - Sheldon & Amy's Game Counter-Factuals - YouTube[/ame]​

The facts still stands. The Allied Powers out maneuver the Arab League in the LoN/UN (democracy in action). The GA Resolution 181 was passed. The Jewish Homeland was established. The Arab/Palestinians reject the opportunity for statehood and start the Arab-Israeli War of 1948. The Arab Armies lose to the Israelis, and with the loss goes most of the territory the Palestinians would have had, had they accepted the Partition Plan in GA Resolution 181. Instead of choosing peaceful solutions, the Arab/Palestinians and their Persian bothers from Iran, create a huge coalition of terrorists active still today; and go on to create counterproductive havoc for the next 60 years:

• Arab–Israeli War (May 1948 - July 1949) -
• Reprisal operations (1950s - 1960s) -
• Suez Crisis (October 1956) -
• Six-Day War (June 1967) -
• War of Attrition (1967–1970) -
• Yom Kippur War (October 1973) -
• 1982 Lebanon War (1982) -
• South Lebanon conflict (1982–2000) -
• First Intifada (1987–1993) -
• Second Intifada (2000–2005) -
• Lebanon War (summer 2006) -
• Gaza War (December 2008 - January 2009) -
• Operation Pillar of Defense (November 2012)

The outcome is that the Palestinian/Arab/Persian Alliance has lost every opportunity for peace, their lands are occupied due to the security threat they pose, and the Palestinians are in an economic shambles.

• What have the Palestinians accomplished in this continuation of the conflict?
• What positive impact has the Palestinian Leadership gained for its people?
• What are the real goals and objectives?

Why do you never believe anything I say?

I wanted to make sure I understand your position and the perspective from which you gained this impression. Politics is what it is. Such dealings go on every day.

[ame=http://youtu.be/6nUn7_3nEA4]I'm A Politician - YouTube[/ame]​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, I'll stipulate to "your" distinction. It is explained in a sensible way.

There is no such thing as a "new" or "old" Yishuv; there is "The Yishuv." And it evolves, unlike the Arab Palestinian that is stagnant. This is a Red Herring.

A distinction is sometimes drawn between the Old Yishuv and the New Yishuv: The Old Yishuv refers to all the Jews living there before the aliyah (immigration wave) of 1882 by the Zionist movement. The Old Yishuv residents were religious Jews, living mainly in Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Hebron. Smaller communities were in Jaffa, Haifa, Peki'in, Acre, Nablus, Shfaram and until 1779 also in Gaza. A large part of the Old Yishuv spent their time studying the Torah and lived off Ma'amodot (stipends), donated by Jews in the Diaspora.

Yishuv - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(COMMENT)

But it must be also considered in context of that:

The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

AND

States whose nationals have in the past enjoyed in Palestine the privileges and immunities of foreigners, including the benefits of consular jurisdiction and as formerly enjoyed by capitulation or usage in the Ottoman Empire, are invited to renounce any right pertaining to them to the reestablishment of such privileges and immunities in the proposed Arab and Jewish States and the City of Jerusalem.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

The "Jewish Agency" was just a Mandate friendly (appropriate) name for the already existing Yishuv (the Jewish community of Palestine). And it still exists today. It is not a "foreign" anything.

Jewish Agency for Palestine

In 1929, the Jewish Agency for Palestine was officially created by the 16th Zionist Congress, held in Zurich.

Jewish Agency for Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not foreign???

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

My apologies, our accesses are different. Please use the following link and scroll down the left-hand side and click on:

• 181 (II) 29 November 1947 FUTURE GOVERNMENT OF PALESTINE

NEW LINK: Still a UN Link: General Assembly Resolutions 2nd Session

Again. my apologies.

v/r
R

When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, sympathetic consideration should he given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.
SOURCE: ODS HOME PAGE

There is an end-user problem. If you have reached this site from a web link,
- Through your internet options, adjust your privacy settings to allow cookies or
- Check your security settings and make sure this site has not been blocked or
- You are probably using a very slow link that may not work well with this application.
Otherwise you have reached this site through unauthorized means.

ODS HOME PAGE

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Arab/Palestinians reject the opportunity for statehood and start the Arab-Israeli War of 1948. The Arab Armies lose to the Israelis, and with the loss goes most of the territory the Palestinians would have had,..

The problem is that your conclusions are based on false premise.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Congress can be held anywhere.

The "Jewish Agency" was just a Mandate friendly (appropriate) name for the already existing Yishuv (the Jewish community of Palestine). And it still exists today. It is not a "foreign" anything.

Jewish Agency for Palestine

In 1929, the Jewish Agency for Palestine was officially created by the 16th Zionist Congress, held in Zurich.

Jewish Agency for Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not foreign???

(COMMENT)

Zurich is neutral ground (Switzerland). What, did you think it was Swiss (joking!)?

In the organization of the various Jewish resources, there was a world-wide relationship. So the Palestinian Jews took the matter before their larger resource. The Mandate was discussed and the appropriate connections were established to meet the requirements.

It is not unusual that meetings of this sort happen on neutral ground. At the time, Zurich was a much better place to meet considering the number of delegates and the facilities available.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

OK!

The Arab/Palestinians reject the opportunity for statehood and start the Arab-Israeli War of 1948. The Arab Armies lose to the Israelis, and with the loss goes most of the territory the Palestinians would have had,..

The problem is that your conclusions are based on false premise.

(COMMENT)

What, prey tell, is the false premise?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hossfly]

The Arab/Palestinians reject the opportunity for statehood and start the Arab-Israeli War of 1948. The Arab Armies lose to the Israelis, and with the loss goes most of the territory the Palestinians would have had,..

The problem is that your conclusions are based on false premise.

Life isn't always fair but you have to play the cards you're dealt. And when you lose don't ask for your money back. Buck up and take it like a man. Even if you've been cheated.

 

[georgephillip]

The Arab/Palestinians reject the opportunity for statehood and start the Arab-Israeli War of 1948. The Arab Armies lose to the Israelis, and with the loss goes most of the territory the Palestinians would have had,..

The problem is that your conclusions are based on false premise.

Life isn't always fair but you have to play the cards you're dealt. And when you lose don't ask for your money back. Buck up and take it like a man. Even if you've been cheated.

That's your advice for Arabs with deeds to properties their families had lived on for generations that were stolen by Jews in 1948?

 

[AsheedMidrarwz]

The problem is that your conclusions are based on false premise.

Life isn't always fair but you have to play the cards you're dealt. And when you lose don't ask for your money back. Buck up and take it like a man. Even if you've been cheated.

That's your advice for Arabs with deeds to properties their families had lived on for generations that were stolen by Jews in 1948?

And what do you do about the Jews who had their businesses and property taken from them in Europe during Hitler's reign of terror? It's a never ending road you choose to do down. Seek peace.

 

[Billo_Really]

And what do you do about the Jews who had their businesses and property taken from them in Europe during Hitler's reign of terror? It's a never ending road you choose to do down. Seek peace.

That doesn't give them the right to take someone else's land!

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

Two different issues.

The problem is that your conclusions are based on false premise.

Life isn't always fair but you have to play the cards you're dealt. And when you lose don't ask for your money back. Buck up and take it like a man. Even if you've been cheated.

That's your advice for Arabs with deeds to properties their families had lived on for generations that were stolen by Jews in 1948?

(COMMENT)

Territorial integrity and sovereignty issues do not affect individual property rights and ownership.

Those that have claims to land, still have those same claims to the land and a civil action to press before the court.

The cause of action is the heart of the complaint, which is the Pleading that initiates a lawsuit. Without an adequately stated cause of action the plaintiff's case can be dismissed at the outset. It is not sufficient merely to state that certain events occurred that entitle the plaintiff to relief. All the elements of each cause of action must be detailed in the complaint. The claims must be supported by the facts, the law, and a conclusion that flows from the application of the law to those facts.

cause of action n. the basis of a lawsuit founded on legal grounds and alleged facts which, if proved, would constitute all the "elements" required by statute. Examples: to have a cause of action for breach of contract there must have been an offer and acceptance, for a tort (civil wrong) there must have been negligence or intentional wrongdoing, for libel there must have been an untruth published which is particularly harmful, and in all cases there must be a connection between the acts of the defendant and damages. In many lawsuits there are several causes of action stated separately, such as fraud, breach of contract, and debt, or negligence and intentional destruction of property.

SOURCE: cause of action legal definition of cause of action. cause of action synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

The Mandate and the following Resolution make it abundantly clear that the Jewish State, nor any subdivision thereof, including the Occupation Territorial Control, have no right to deprive any Palestinian or Arab of possession of their property or proprietary rights, in the course of the establishment of the State.

The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
SOURCE: Mandate for Palestine text/League of Nations decision confirming the Principal Allied Powers' agreement on the territory of Palestine (12 August 1922)

8. No expropriation of land owned by an Arab in the Jewish State (by a Jew in the Arab State) shall be allowed except for public purposes. In all cases of expropriation full compensation as fixed by the Supreme Court shall be paid previous to dispossession.
SOURCE: General Assembly Resolutions 2nd Session

Restitution has to be made in valid equity in true ownership.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[AsheedMidrarwz]

And what do you do about the Jews who had their businesses and property taken from them in Europe during Hitler's reign of terror? It's a never ending road you choose to do down. Seek peace.

That doesn't give them the right to take someone else's land!

Sell it to some naive college kid.

 

[AsheedMidrarwz]

georgephillip, et al,

Two different issues.

Life isn't always fair but you have to play the cards you're dealt. And when you lose don't ask for your money back. Buck up and take it like a man. Even if you've been cheated.

That's your advice for Arabs with deeds to properties their families had lived on for generations that were stolen by Jews in 1948?

(COMMENT)

Territorial integrity and sovereignty issues do not affect individual property rights and ownership.

Those that have claims to land, still have those same claims to the land and a civil action to press before the court.



The Mandate and the following Resolution make it abundantly clear that the Jewish State, nor any subdivision thereof, including the Occupation Territorial Control, have no right to deprive any Palestinian or Arab of possession of their property or proprietary rights, in the course of the establishment of the State.

8. No expropriation of land owned byan Arab in the Jewish State (by a Jew in the Arab State) shall be allowed except for public purposes. In all cases of expropriation full compensation as fixed by the Supreme Court shall be paid previous to dispossession.
SOURCE: General Assembly Resolutions 2nd Session

Restitution has to be made in valid equity in true ownership.

Most Respectfully,
R

Nope. You're wasting your time.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I was brought up to a good point by my friend Seal, which was the discussion and setting of this 5 years ago, remember when Israelis and Jews used to say they just wanted a security fence around the West Bank? And hmm....surprisingly they started building consistently, these illegal settlements and now they are starting to claim all the West Bank is their Jewish land, yet 5 years ago they were just wanting a security fence, another reason for the Palestinians to trust the Israelis.

 

[RoccoR]

BecauseIKnow, et al,

Yes, a good question!

I was brought up to a good point by my friend Seal, which was the discussion and setting of this 5 years ago, remember when Israelis and Jews used to say they just wanted a security fence around the West Bank? And hmm....surprisingly they started building consistently, these illegal settlements and now they are starting to claim all the West Bank is their Jewish land, yet 5 years ago they were just wanting a security fence, another reason for the Palestinians to trust the Israelis.

(COMMENT)

While this still does not effect property rights and land ownership, from a territorial control perspective, this is an embryonic move towards sovereign annexation. This is a very gray area.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[AsheedMidrarwz]

I was brought up to a good point by my friend Seal, which was the discussion and setting of this 5 years ago, remember when Israelis and Jews used to say they just wanted a security fence around the West Bank? And hmm....surprisingly they started building consistently, these illegal settlements and now they are starting to claim all the West Bank is their Jewish land, yet 5 years ago they were just wanting a security fence, another reason for the Palestinians to trust the Israelis.

Wanna make a deal? Tell your Pals to stop shooting illegal missiles into Israel and Isael will stop building illegal settlements.

 

[Billo_Really]

Sell it to some naive college kid.

Hey, your ignorance of international law, is not my problem.