Palestinians Certain to Win Recognition as a State by UN vote today

[Roudy]

If anyone anywhere has some sane reason why the U.S. would work against this I would like to see it, otherwise, WTF WH?

What are its borders? Who is the ruling govt., leaders, responsible parties etc? What is its capital? If any of this includes parts of Israel, has there been a negotiated agreement?

That's why.

That's why the administration opposes the initiative? Not seeing it here?

Does this mean when a country has a border dispute or there is a change of government they are temporarily barred from being a member of the U.N.? Is the location of the capital a requirement? Missed that one.

As has been stated this is a stepping stone. I thought most people were in agreement that this was the direction that things should be going. So why take away the stepping stone until after you have jumped across the river?

Kurdistan declared statehood today. It included parts of Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Turkey.

You see how stupid that sounds? And Kurdistan has ONE autonomous ruling govt.

 

[Jos]

Fake Hamas?

 

[AnjelicaT]

good idea----that makes the "new state" fully responsible for every Kassam rocket it launches------and unable to complain about return fire of ANY MAGNITUDE

Thats just what I was thinking

 

[emptystep]

What are its borders? Who is the ruling govt., leaders, responsible parties etc? What is its capital? If any of this includes parts of Israel, has there been a negotiated agreement?

That's why.

That's why the administration opposes the initiative? Not seeing it here?

Does this mean when a country has a border dispute or there is a change of government they are temporarily barred from being a member of the U.N.? Is the location of the capital a requirement? Missed that one.

As has been stated this is a stepping stone. I thought most people were in agreement that this was the direction that things should be going. So why take away the stepping stone until after you have jumped across the river?

Kurdistan declared statehood today. It included parts of Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Turkey.

You see how stupid that sounds? And Kurdistan has ONE autonomous ruling govt.

Yes. I agree. That sounds very stupid. Then again you make lots of stupid comments.

 

[Hossfly]

Fake Hamas?

Fake tatoo.

 

[toomuchtime_]

If anyone anywhere has some sane reason why the U.S. would work against this I would like to see it, otherwise, WTF WH?

The obvious answer is that polls consistently show US voters supporter Israel over the Palestinian Arabs by a wide margin, so the WH is standing by the position of the people who elected them in opposing this resolution. But there are other reasons. Israel's UN Ambassador gives reasons why it is unseemly for the UN to recognize a Palestinian state at this time in this article.

First, the territories over which the Palestinians seek to declare sovereignty are divided between warring factions in the Gaza Strip and West Bank, Prosor noted, evidenced by the fact that Abbas has not stepped foot in the coastal enclave since his party was ousted by Hamas in a civil war in 2007;

Second, states recognized by the UN must pledge to be "peace-loving;" however, Prosor pointed out that Gaza is ruled by the Hamas terrorist organization, which earlier this month fired more than 1,200 rockets into Israeli civilian centers.

In Prosor's words, "The family of nations does not need another member whose primary import is deadly weapons and whose chief exports are extremism, hatred and terror."

Third, neither Gaza nor the West Bank are democratic in nature, Prosor contended. Hamas, he highlighted, "has imposed brutal tyranny in Gaza," whereas "President Abbas's mandate to rule expired three years ago."

Fourth, the Palestinian economy is non-viable, according to Prosor, completely dependent on foreign aid. Despite this, Prosor wrote, "this year, as the PA threatened to delay payroll for many employees, it tripled payments to convicted terrorists. Today the PA devotes 6% of its annual budget to payments for imprisoned terrorists and the families of suicide bombers, and less than 1% to higher education."

Prosor concluded by reiterating that "The foundations for real Palestinian statehood and real peace can only be laid through hard work on the ground and direct talks with Israel.

"When the foundations for lasting peace are in place, Israel will not be the last nation to welcome Palestinians to the UN. We will be the first."

Prosor to Abbas: Forego UN 'march... JPost - Diplomacy & Politics

However, there are other reasons to reject this resolution that should be compelling to anyone, or any nation, that supports a negotiated two state solution to the conflict and who supports democratic government for the Palestinian Arabs. The resolution states:

Reaffirms the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967;

In other words, to the extent the resolution implicitly recognizes a Palestinian state, it implicitly rejects Israel's claim to its West Bank communities and gives Jerusalem to the Palestinian Arabs. Once this is passed, no Palestinian government will go to the negotiating table without these conditions set as pre conditions to negotiations and no Israeli government will go to the negotiating table under those conditions; so the resolution makes a difficult situation impossible. It effectively ends the possibility of a negotiated final settlement.

The resolution also states:

Decides to accord to Palestine Non-member Observer State status in the United Nations, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization in the United Nations as the representative of the Palestinian people, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;

In other words, the resolution states the UN will recognize the PLO as the sole representative of the Palestinian people even if a non PLO political party should later come to control the the government; that is to say, the UN will not recognize the outcome a future election that produces such an outcome.

Draft of the Palestinian UN application for nonmember status (full text) | The Times of Israel

Some states will vote for the resolution because of hostility toward Israel, some will vote for it because of hostility toward the US, some will vote for it because they want to bolster support for Abbas' weak, corrupt, incompetent government against the rising popularity of the Gaza terrorists among Palestinian Arabs and some will vote for it because the rah rah sentiment it expresses for a Palestinian state will play well among their own populations, but regard of the reasons, it is clear the resolution will bring no benefits to the Palestinian Arab people and will make the possibility of a negotiated peaceful two state solution even more remote than it already is.

 

[peach174]

If anyone anywhere has some sane reason why the U.S. would work against this I would like to see it, otherwise, WTF WH?

They want East Jerusalem.
That's like saying that Nazis during the 40's wanted the East part of Washington D.C.
Would you allow your enemy like Nazi's living there in D.C.?
Neither do Jews, nor the peaceful Muslims who live in East Jerusalem.

 

[georgephillip]

I agree georgie, Israel should surrender to the great nation of Palestine, led by a bunch of AK-47 toting monkeys named Hamas who are calling for the genocide of Jews while yelling Allah Ahkbar !

Or the five million Jews and six million Arabs living between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River could settle it all at the ballot box?

You would then get a civil war, and the muslims would lose.... again.

Why would any Israeli voluntarily give up power to people that want them dead?

A civil war within a state with hundreds of nuclear weapons doesn't sound very civil.
Maybe there wouldn't be any winners...

 

[emptystep]

If anyone anywhere has some sane reason why the U.S. would work against this I would like to see it, otherwise, WTF WH?

The obvious answer is that polls consistently show US voters supporter Israel over the Palestinian Arabs by a wide margin, so the WH is standing by the position of the people who elected them in opposing this resolution. But there are other reasons. Israel's UN Ambassador gives reasons why it is unseemly for the UN to recognize a Palestinian state at this time in this article.

First, the territories over which the Palestinians seek to declare sovereignty are divided between warring factions in the Gaza Strip and West Bank, Prosor noted, evidenced by the fact that Abbas has not stepped foot in the coastal enclave since his party was ousted by Hamas in a civil war in 2007;

Second, states recognized by the UN must pledge to be "peace-loving;" however, Prosor pointed out that Gaza is ruled by the Hamas terrorist organization, which earlier this month fired more than 1,200 rockets into Israeli civilian centers.

In Prosor's words, "The family of nations does not need another member whose primary import is deadly weapons and whose chief exports are extremism, hatred and terror."

Third, neither Gaza nor the West Bank are democratic in nature, Prosor contended. Hamas, he highlighted, "has imposed brutal tyranny in Gaza," whereas "President Abbas's mandate to rule expired three years ago."

Fourth, the Palestinian economy is non-viable, according to Prosor, completely dependent on foreign aid. Despite this, Prosor wrote, "this year, as the PA threatened to delay payroll for many employees, it tripled payments to convicted terrorists. Today the PA devotes 6% of its annual budget to payments for imprisoned terrorists and the families of suicide bombers, and less than 1% to higher education."

Prosor concluded by reiterating that "The foundations for real Palestinian statehood and real peace can only be laid through hard work on the ground and direct talks with Israel.

"When the foundations for lasting peace are in place, Israel will not be the last nation to welcome Palestinians to the UN. We will be the first."

Prosor to Abbas: Forego UN 'march... JPost - Diplomacy & Politics

However, there are other reasons to reject this resolution that should be compelling to anyone, or any nation, that supports a negotiated two state solution to the conflict and who supports democratic government for the Palestinian Arabs. The resolution states:

Reaffirms the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967;

In other words, to the extent the resolution implicitly recognizes a Palestinian state, it implicitly rejects Israel's claim to its West Bank communities and gives Jerusalem to the Palestinian Arabs. Once this is passed, no Palestinian government will go to the negotiating table without these conditions set as pre conditions to negotiations and no Israeli government will go to the negotiating table under those conditions; so the resolution makes a difficult situation impossible. It effectively ends the possibility of a negotiated final settlement.

The resolution also states:

Decides to accord to Palestine Non-member Observer State status in the United Nations, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization in the United Nations as the representative of the Palestinian people, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;

In other words, the resolution states the UN will recognize the PLO as the sole representative of the Palestinian people even if a non PLO political party should later come to control the the government; that is to say, the UN will not recognize the outcome a future election that produces such an outcome.

Draft of the Palestinian UN application for nonmember status (full text) | The Times of Israel

Some states will vote for the resolution because of hostility toward Israel, some will vote for it because of hostility toward the US, some will vote for it because they want to bolster support for Abbas' weak, corrupt, incompetent government against the rising popularity of the Gaza terrorists among Palestinian Arabs and some will vote for it because the rah rah sentiment it expresses for a Palestinian state will play well among their own populations, but regard of the reasons, it is clear the resolution will bring no benefits to the Palestinian Arab people and will make the possibility of a negotiated peaceful two state solution even more remote than it already is.

More elaborate answer than Roudy's earlier post but the same logic. While valid point not solid reasons for not letting Palestine become a non-member state of the UN.

 

[emptystep]

If anyone anywhere has some sane reason why the U.S. would work against this I would like to see it, otherwise, WTF WH?

They want East Jerusalem.
That's like saying that Nazis during the 40's wanted the East part of Washington D.C.
Would you allow your enemy like Nazi's living there in D.C.?
Neither do Jews, nor the peaceful Muslims who live in East Jerusalem.

Then again I might have you for a neighbor.

 

[irosie91]

KURDISTAN IS AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY???? now that is worth celebrating!!!!!!!!!!
::

 

[emptystep]

KURDISTAN IS AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY???? now that is worth celebrating!!!!!!!!!!
::

My wife speaks Kurdish. fyi of course

 

[irosie91]

KURDISTAN IS AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY???? now that is worth celebrating!!!!!!!!!!
::

My wife speaks Kurdish. fyi of course

nice----uhm I did not know that there is a "kurdish"----I mean I thought that
kurdish stuff went away along with other religions that kurds had before islam
got there

 

[emptystep]

KURDISTAN IS AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY???? now that is worth celebrating!!!!!!!!!!
::

My wife speaks Kurdish. fyi of course

nice----uhm I did not know that there is a "kurdish"----I mean I thought that
kurdish stuff went away along with other religions that kurds had before islam
got there

Why do you think they are still getting slaughtered in east Turkey?

 

[irosie91]

My wife speaks Kurdish. fyi of course

nice----uhm I did not know that there is a "kurdish"----I mean I thought that
kurdish stuff went away along with other religions that kurds had before islam
got there

Why do you think they are still getting slaughtered in east Turkey?

OH OH I forgot-----they get into trouble for SPEAKING ---uhm...kurdish? well---the turks do have a language NOT ARABIC ------so its not something like kurdish arabic they are
speaking? oh ok did not know.........

 

[emptystep]

nice----uhm I did not know that there is a "kurdish"----I mean I thought that
kurdish stuff went away along with other religions that kurds had before islam
got there

Why do you think they are still getting slaughtered in east Turkey?

OH OH I forgot-----they get into trouble for SPEAKING ---uhm...kurdish? well---the turks do have a language NOT ARABIC ------so its not something like kurdish arabic they are
speaking? oh ok did not know.........

Yes. some/most Kurds have a fierce sense of heritage. Another little fact, some Iranians still hold on to Zoroaster undertones that are almost as strong as their Islamic beliefs, but you never heard that from me. Name calling always shows a strong ignorance. Although I do it way too often myself.

 

[Roudy]

KURDISTAN IS AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY???? now that is worth celebrating!!!!!!!!!!
::

Kurdistan is an autonomous region now. Although they are inside Iraq, they are self governing, and at total peace with Iraq. It would be easy to envision such a Palestinian state, once it is ready to be at peace with Israel, and stops having hallucinations involving the total destruction and dismantling of the state of Israel.

 

[Sunni Man]

Palestinian statehood would be another victory for the Palestinian people and a major defeat for Israel's zionists.

 

[emptystep]

KURDISTAN IS AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY???? now that is worth celebrating!!!!!!!!!!
::

Kurdistan is an autonomous region now. Although they are inside Iraq, they are self governing, and at total peace with Iraq. It would be easy to envision such a Palestinian state, once it is ready to be at peace with Israel, and stops having hallucinations involving the total destruction and dismantling of the state of Israel.

Iraq is at peace with whom??? When the last of the shrapnel falls to the ground let me know who Iraq is at peace with.

 

[irosie91]

Why do you think they are still getting slaughtered in east Turkey?

OH OH I forgot-----they get into trouble for SPEAKING ---uhm...kurdish? well---the turks do have a language NOT ARABIC ------so its not something like kurdish arabic they are
speaking? oh ok did not know.........

Yes. some/most Kurds have a fierce sense of heritage. Another little fact, some Iranians still hold on to Zoroaster undertones that are almost as strong as their Islamic beliefs, but you never heard that from me. Name calling always shows a strong ignorance. Although I do it way too often myself.

Yes yes-----I have heard about the Zoroaster influence on Iranians------uhm----but it was not
Iranians who told me about it on the other hand-----when I first encountered Iranians,
they were actually normal people------and so far the Iranians I have encountered in the USA
are mostly normal -----still--------as to islam--------they all seemed indifferent ----over here.d
The only remarkable characteristic I noted was DAGGERS FLYING out of their eyes if they happened to glimpse an arab OR a pakistani------that was long ago before I knew
about the shiite/sunni thing-------but it is MORE than just religion------it is sheer DISDAIN
for pakistanis and unadulterated HATRED for arabs. I am trying to understand how
achmadinejad imagines that he will FORM ALLIANCES with arab countries