Palestinians Certain to Win Recognition as a State by UN vote today

[Roudy]

Why do you think they are still getting slaughtered in east Turkey?

OH OH I forgot-----they get into trouble for SPEAKING ---uhm...kurdish? well---the turks do have a language NOT ARABIC ------so its not something like kurdish arabic they are
speaking? oh ok did not know.........

Yes. some/most Kurds have a fierce sense of heritage. Another little fact, some Iranians still hold on to Zoroaster undertones that are almost as strong as their Islamic beliefs, but you never heard that from me. Name calling always shows a strong ignorance. Although I do it way too often myself.

Kurds are proud but tolerant people, and were a great civilization and led the Persian Empire during it's height. There are many Iraqi Jews that took refuge in Kurdistan to escape the Arabs. Kurdish Jews go back thousands of years and are the closest Jews to those that fled the destruction of the first Temple thousands of years ago. Some still speak Aramaic and Kurdish to each other.

 

[emptystep]

OH OH I forgot-----they get into trouble for SPEAKING ---uhm...kurdish? well---the turks do have a language NOT ARABIC ------so its not something like kurdish arabic they are
speaking? oh ok did not know.........

Yes. some/most Kurds have a fierce sense of heritage. Another little fact, some Iranians still hold on to Zoroaster undertones that are almost as strong as their Islamic beliefs, but you never heard that from me. Name calling always shows a strong ignorance. Although I do it way too often myself.

Yes yes-----I have heard about the Zoroaster influence on Iranians------uhm----but it was not
Iranians who told me about it on the other hand-----when I first encountered Iranians,
they were actually normal people------and so far the Iranians I have encountered in the USA
are mostly normal -----still--------as to islam--------they all seemed indifferent ----over here.d
The only remarkable characteristic I noted was DAGGERS FLYING out of their eyes if they happened to glimpse an arab OR a pakistani------that was long ago before I knew
about the shiite/sunni thing-------but it is MORE than just religion------it is sheer DISDAIN
for pakistanis and unadulterated HATRED for arabs. I am trying to understand how
achmadinejad imagines that he will FORM ALLIANCES with arab countries

Yeah, that Arab thing is kinda true. All these reports of Iran helping out Arabic neighbors is suspicious given the feelings between the two. Especially Iran/Iraq.

 

[Roudy]

KURDISTAN IS AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY???? now that is worth celebrating!!!!!!!!!!
::

Kurdistan is an autonomous region now. Although they are inside Iraq, they are self governing, and at total peace with Iraq. It would be easy to envision such a Palestinian state, once it is ready to be at peace with Israel, and stops having hallucinations involving the total destruction and dismantling of the state of Israel.

Iraq is at peace with whom??? When the last of the shrapnel falls to the ground let me know who Iraq is at peace with.

Kurds consider themselves to be part of the greater Federation of Iraq. And have been the most peaceful and terrorism free area throughout the last decade. That is because they have their own army and very good control of their borders. They also got lucky and are sitting on one of the biggest oil reserves in Iraq. It looks like their luck may have changed after hundreds of years of suffering and disappointment.

 

[toomuchtime_]

If anyone anywhere has some sane reason why the U.S. would work against this I would like to see it, otherwise, WTF WH?

The obvious answer is that polls consistently show US voters supporter Israel over the Palestinian Arabs by a wide margin, so the WH is standing by the position of the people who elected them in opposing this resolution. But there are other reasons. Israel's UN Ambassador gives reasons why it is unseemly for the UN to recognize a Palestinian state at this time in this article.




Prosor to Abbas: Forego UN 'march... JPost - Diplomacy & Politics

However, there are other reasons to reject this resolution that should be compelling to anyone, or any nation, that supports a negotiated two state solution to the conflict and who supports democratic government for the Palestinian Arabs. The resolution states:



In other words, to the extent the resolution implicitly recognizes a Palestinian state, it implicitly rejects Israel's claim to its West Bank communities and gives Jerusalem to the Palestinian Arabs. Once this is passed, no Palestinian government will go to the negotiating table without these conditions set as pre conditions to negotiations and no Israeli government will go to the negotiating table under those conditions; so the resolution makes a difficult situation impossible. It effectively ends the possibility of a negotiated final settlement.

The resolution also states:

Decides to accord to Palestine Non-member Observer State status in the United Nations, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization in the United Nations as the representative of the Palestinian people, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;

In other words, the resolution states the UN will recognize the PLO as the sole representative of the Palestinian people even if a non PLO political party should later come to control the the government; that is to say, the UN will not recognize the outcome a future election that produces such an outcome.

Draft of the Palestinian UN application for nonmember status (full text) | The Times of Israel

Some states will vote for the resolution because of hostility toward Israel, some will vote for it because of hostility toward the US, some will vote for it because they want to bolster support for Abbas' weak, corrupt, incompetent government against the rising popularity of the Gaza terrorists among Palestinian Arabs and some will vote for it because the rah rah sentiment it expresses for a Palestinian state will play well among their own populations, but regard of the reasons, it is clear the resolution will bring no benefits to the Palestinian Arab people and will make the possibility of a negotiated peaceful two state solution even more remote than it already is.

More elaborate answer than Roudy's earlier post but the same logic. While valid point not solid reasons for not letting Palestine become a non-member state of the UN.

The issue is whether or not to vote for this particular resolution, not whether "Palestine" should become a non member observer state at the UNGA in principle, and I've provided several reasons why the WH should vote against this resolution but you have provided no reasons why you support this particular resolution despite the fact that you acknowledge my points are valid. Do you have any arguments to make in support of this particular resolution?

 

[irosie91]

will the DETAILS of the resolution be debated and possibly altered?

 

[toomuchtime_]

will the DETAILS of the resolution be debated and possibly altered?

It is unlikely. There have been bilateral discussions of the draft text for a few days without any substantial changes being made. I expect there will be speeches for or against the resolution as it stands, but everyone seems to have already decided how to vote.

 

[sealadaigh]

good idea----that makes the "new state" fully responsible for every Kassam rocket it launches------and unable to complain about return fire of ANY MAGNITUDE

what the hell are you talking about. israel complains about fire. palestine complains about fire.

being a state doesn't provide immunity from war crimes.

so, if iran develops a nuke and lends it to lebanon or jordan or iraq or syria (violation of airspace by israel is an act of war) to bomb israel, you're good with that. how about iran popping a nuke at our fleet in the persian gulf area or mediterranean because the USA flew a drone over iran, violating their airspace....that sort of constitutes "return fire of ANY MAGNITUDE" to me.

i swear, i have met a lot of bad ass motherfuckers in my life, and even a few cold-blooded killers (and believe me, those guys will send chills up your spine with ust a look) but i don't think i have ever seen such a completely depraved and blood thirsty culture as that of the jewish culture, at least in america.

and really, you and all your "thankers" may want to realise that international law trumps talmudic law, so brush up on it.

 

[sealadaigh]

If anyone anywhere has some sane reason why the U.S. would work against this I would like to see it, otherwise, WTF WH?

They want East Jerusalem.
That's like saying that Nazis during the 40's wanted the East part of Washington D.C.
Would you allow your enemy like Nazi's living there in D.C.?
Neither do Jews, nor the peaceful Muslims who live in East Jerusalem.

careful. you wouldn't want marg invoking godwin's law on you now, would we?

the question i believe was "why would the USA work against this" and your answer is because the palestinians want east jerusalem as their capital?

where is the US embassy anyway...and why is it there?

 

[Roudy]

good idea----that makes the "new state" fully responsible for every Kassam rocket it launches------and unable to complain about return fire of ANY MAGNITUDE

what the hell are you talking about. israel complains about fire. palestine complains about fire.

being a state doesn't provide immunity from war crimes.

so, if iran develops a nuke and lends it to lebanon or jordan or iraq or syria (violation of airspace by israel is an act of war) to bomb israel, you're good with that. how about iran popping a nuke at our fleet in the persian gulf area or mediterranean because the USA flew a drone over iran, violating their airspace....that sort of constitutes "return fire of ANY MAGNITUDE" to me.

i swear, i have met a lot of bad ass motherfuckers in my life, and even a few cold-blooded killers (and believe me, those guys will send chills up your spine with ust a look) but i don't think i have ever seen such a completely depraved and blood thirsty culture as that of the jewish culture, at least in america.

and really, you and all your "thankers" may want to realise that international law trumps talmudic law, so brush up on it.

i swear, i have met a lot of bad ass motherfuckers in my life, and even a few cold-blooded killers (and believe me, those guys will send chills up your spine with ust a look) but i don't think i have ever seen such a completely depraved and blood thirsty culture as that of the jewish culture, at least in america.

Spoken like a true anti Semite. You forgot to say "Heil Hitler" or "Allah Akbar" in your conclusion, you Nazi cocksucker.

Forms

theological or religious antisemitism, sometimes known as anti-Judaism;
nationalistic antisemitism, citing Voltaire and other Enlightenment thinkers, who attacked Jews for supposedly having certain characteristics, such as greed and arrogance, and for observing customs such as kashrut and Shabbat;
and racial antisemitism, with its extreme form resulting in the Holocaust by the Nazis.
Louis Harap separates "economic antisemitism" and merges "political" and "nationalistic" antisemitism into "ideological antisemitism". Harap also adds a category of "social antisemitism".[31]
religious (Jew as Christ-killer),
economic (Jew as banker, usurer, money-obsessed),
social (Jew as social inferior, "pushy," vulgar, therefore excluded from personal contact),
racist (Jews as an inferior "race"),
ideological (Jews regarded as subversive or revolutionary),
cultural (Jews regarded as undermining the moral and structural fiber of civilization).

Derek Penslar writes that there are two components to the financial canards:[40]
a) Jews are savages that "are temperamentally incapable of performing honest labor"
b) Jews are "leaders of a financial cabal seeking world domination"
Abraham Foxman describes six facets of the financial canards:
All Jews are wealthy[41]
Jews are stingy and greedy[42]
Powerful Jews control the business world[43]
Jewish religion emphasizes profit and materialism[44]
It is okay for Jews to cheat non-Jews[45]
Jews use their power to benefit "their own kind"[46]

Blood libel (also blood accusation[1][2]) is a false accusation or claim[3][4][5] that religious minorities, usually Jews, murder children to use their blood in certain aspects of their religious rituals and holidays.[1][2][6] Historically, these claims—alongside those of well poisoning and host desecration—have been a major theme in European persecution of Jews.[4]
Blood libels typically allege that Jews require human blood for the baking of matzos for Passover, although this element was absent in the earliest cases that claimed (the contemporary) Jews reenacted the crucifixion. The accusations often assert that the blood of Christian children is especially coveted, and, historically, blood libel claims have been made to account for otherwise unexplained deaths of children.

Antisemitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[martybegan]

Taiwan?

Look what happened to Taiwan, they got booted out of the UN to make way for "Red" China. Also here is a case where it is the same nationality fighting over the same land. Basically you had a civil war and the side that lost took over an island forming a "government in exile"

Taiwan is currently a non-member state of the UN.
Non-Members of the United Nations
(See? It did come up as your next trivia question.)

Good point. the deviation is that the Taiwanese never decided to start lobbing rockets into thier former territory. What they did is gave up on getting the mainland back, and built a dynamic 1st world western style nation with a strong economny and (eventually) strong democratic insitutions.

Something the palestinians have had decades to attempt, but for some reason or another, refuse to try.

 

[Lipush]

Palestinian statehood would be another victory for the Palestinian people and a major defeat for Israel's zionists.

This is not about Palestinian independence, and will hardly change the Palestinian statues.

Any change of that sort is only through negotiations with the Israeli government.

And stupid decisions will block the effrts that are anyway stuck.

 

[Sunni Man]

This is not about Palestinian independence, and will hardly change the Palestinian statues.

If that is true; then why is Israel fighting so hard to block it's passage at the UN ??

 

[Hossfly]

Just announced.


The U.N. General Assembly votes, 138 to 9, to recognize a Palestinian state, with 41 nations abstaining





For more news, please go to FoxNews.com and watch Fox News Channel.

 

[Sunni Man]

 

[irosie91]

oh goody---does this mean Israel can turn of the water and electricity now? and close up all the border crossings?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Palestinian statehood would be another victory for the Palestinian people and a major defeat for Israel's zionists.

This is not about Palestinian independence, and will hardly change the Palestinian statues.

Any change of that sort is only through negotiations with the Israeli government.

And stupid decisions will block the effrts that are anyway stuck.

Lipush,

Palestine, now a nonmember observer state before the UN!

And he said, enough is enough! Abbas, that is, before the General Assembly!

And the Nations voted, Yes, enough is enough!

The world is fed up with Israel and her child killing forays, all the children burned to death and civilians burned to death by Nazi Israel, deliberately and with the newest of wepaons!

Next stop, admission to the Criminal court at the Hague and then, posthaste, let us haul those war criminal IDF child killer scumbags before The International Criminal Court and try them for their war crimes!

And why are you here and not out killing babies with your tribe, I thought service in the IDF and baby killing was mandatory in Israel, for men and women?

Sherri

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

oh goody---does this mean Israel can turn of the water and electricity now? and close up all the border crossings?

Rosie,

Once they get all of their 600,000+ illegal settler land thieves the fuck out of Occupied Palestine, end the illegal Occupation, and all the soldiers out, sure, then they have no obligations owed about water or electricity, but they have to get those child killing settlers and IDF soldiers/war criminals out of there and fully end the Occupation, first, though!

Israel needs to get the fuck out of the land they illegally have soldiers and illegal settlers in, get out of Occupied Palestine completely, that is Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem!

Sherri

 

[irosie91]

Palestinian statehood would be another victory for the Palestinian people and a major defeat for Israel's zionists.

This is not about Palestinian independence, and will hardly change the Palestinian statues.

Any change of that sort is only through negotiations with the Israeli government.

And stupid decisions will block the effrts that are anyway stuck.

Lipush,

Palestine, now a nonmember observer state before the UN!

And he said, enough is enough! Abbas, that is, before the General Assembly!

And the Nations voted, Yes, enough is enough!


The world is fed up with Israel and her child killing forays, all the children burned to death

and civilians burned to death by Nazi Israel, deliberately and with the newest of wepaons!

Next stop, admission to the Criminal court at the Hague and then, posthaste, let us haul those war criminal IDF child killer scumbags before The International Criminal Court and try them for their war crimes!


And why are you here and not out killing babies with your tribe, I thought service in the IDF and baby killing was mandatory in Israel, for men and women?

Sherri

Sherri----you are quite a parody of the pile of shit from
you were spawned and the pile of shit which you are
today----in your words, your thoughts and your sick
and perverse creed

 

[sealadaigh]

good idea----that makes the "new state" fully responsible for every Kassam rocket it launches------and unable to complain about return fire of ANY MAGNITUDE

what the hell are you talking about. israel complains about fire. palestine complains about fire.

being a state doesn't provide immunity from war crimes.

so, if iran develops a nuke and lends it to lebanon or jordan or iraq or syria (violation of airspace by israel is an act of war) to bomb israel, you're good with that. how about iran popping a nuke at our fleet in the persian gulf area or mediterranean because the USA flew a drone over iran, violating their airspace....that sort of constitutes "return fire of ANY MAGNITUDE" to me.

i swear, i have met a lot of bad ass motherfuckers in my life, and even a few cold-blooded killers (and believe me, those guys will send chills up your spine with ust a look) but i don't think i have ever seen such a completely depraved and blood thirsty culture as that of the jewish culture, at least in america.

and really, you and all your "thankers" may want to realise that international law trumps talmudic law, so brush up on it.

i swear, i have met a lot of bad ass motherfuckers in my life, and even a few cold-blooded killers (and believe me, those guys will send chills up your spine with ust a look) but i don't think i have ever seen such a completely depraved and blood thirsty culture as that of the jewish culture, at least in america.

Spoken like a true anti Semite. You forgot to say "Heil Hitler" or "Allah Akbar" in your conclusion, you Nazi cocksucker.

Forms

theological or religious antisemitism, sometimes known as anti-Judaism;
nationalistic antisemitism, citing Voltaire and other Enlightenment thinkers, who attacked Jews for supposedly having certain characteristics, such as greed and arrogance, and for observing customs such as kashrut and Shabbat;
and racial antisemitism, with its extreme form resulting in the Holocaust by the Nazis.
Louis Harap separates "economic antisemitism" and merges "political" and "nationalistic" antisemitism into "ideological antisemitism". Harap also adds a category of "social antisemitism".[31]
religious (Jew as Christ-killer),
economic (Jew as banker, usurer, money-obsessed),
social (Jew as social inferior, "pushy," vulgar, therefore excluded from personal contact),
racist (Jews as an inferior "race"),
ideological (Jews regarded as subversive or revolutionary),
cultural (Jews regarded as undermining the moral and structural fiber of civilization).

Derek Penslar writes that there are two components to the financial canards:[40]
a) Jews are savages that "are temperamentally incapable of performing honest labor"
b) Jews are "leaders of a financial cabal seeking world domination"
Abraham Foxman describes six facets of the financial canards:
All Jews are wealthy[41]
Jews are stingy and greedy[42]
Powerful Jews control the business world[43]
Jewish religion emphasizes profit and materialism[44]
It is okay for Jews to cheat non-Jews[45]
Jews use their power to benefit "their own kind"[46]

Blood libel (also blood accusation[1][2]) is a false accusation or claim[3][4][5] that religious minorities, usually Jews, murder children to use their blood in certain aspects of their religious rituals and holidays.[1][2][6] Historically, these claims—alongside those of well poisoning and host desecration—have been a major theme in European persecution of Jews.[4]
Blood libels typically allege that Jews require human blood for the baking of matzos for Passover, although this element was absent in the earliest cases that claimed (the contemporary) Jews reenacted the crucifixion. The accusations often assert that the blood of Christian children is especially coveted, and, historically, blood libel claims have been made to account for otherwise unexplained deaths of children.

Antisemitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

oh, don't hand me that whiney ass "anti-semiytism shite, ya little fook.

one only has to look at this board to see what a blood thirsty culture you have. look at your "kaboom" thread for example. you were cheering for death. cultures inculcate values in their members. what the hell do you think cultural anthropology is all about.

and from what i can see about your culture and the reactions to lebanon, iraq, iran, gaza, everything, you people thrive on blood lust and you are going to have a hard time selling anybody anymore that you don't. never have i ever seen any people defend, condone, and cheer the deaths of children and innocents like jews do.

imagine if we cheered or made light of the FIVE measly jews who were killed in israel. i have not seen one single pro-palestinian poster do that. instead, i see you puny ass jews trying to make up for your cowardice in the face of nazi oppression by swaggering around dropping bombs on civilian areas and cheering the deaths of civilians. you would be squealing like a poked pig..."anti-semite this, jewhater that...waaaa, waaaa, waaaa."

well, if standing up or justice and having compassion for innocent children and telling the truth makes me an anti-semite, than i am proud and honoured that you have placed me in the company of such people as mairead corrigan, desmond tutu, jimmy carter, nelson mandela, JFK, malcolm X, barach obama, harry truman, george washington, RFK, GBShaw, halle berry...

hey, you are a jew, get over it. people really could care less until you try to shove your guilt trips down their frealin' throats. i certainly don't. if guilt is part of your culture fine, do it on yourselves but other peeps, who manage not to be prejudiced one single bit against all kinds of racial, ethnic, cultural, groups and accept almot everybody for what they are all of a sudden and out of the clear bkue are anti-semites.

people do not dislike ews for what or who they are, they dislike you for what you do, and right now and for the past week, you have been gloating over the deaths of civilians and children.

get your acts together. you are not special and you do not deserve special treayment. i will treat you like i treat everyone else, and if you act like a fookin' ass, i will treat you like i would treat any other ass.

 

[Hossfly]

good idea----that makes the "new state" fully responsible for every Kassam rocket it launches------and unable to complain about return fire of ANY MAGNITUDE

what the hell are you talking about. israel complains about fire. palestine complains about fire.

being a state doesn't provide immunity from war crimes.

so, if iran develops a nuke and lends it to lebanon or jordan or iraq or syria (violation of airspace by israel is an act of war) to bomb israel, you're good with that. how about iran popping a nuke at our fleet in the persian gulf area or mediterranean because the USA flew a drone over iran, violating their airspace....that sort of constitutes "return fire of ANY MAGNITUDE" to me.

i swear, i have met a lot of bad ass motherfuckers in my life, and even a few cold-blooded killers (and believe me, those guys will send chills up your spine with ust a look) but i don't think i have ever seen such a completely depraved and blood thirsty culture as that of the jewish culture, at least in america.

and really, you and all your "thankers" may want to realise that international law trumps talmudic law, so brush up on it.

Isn't it fun to see how Seal ignores the bloodthirsty Muslim culture? No matter how many innocent people they have killed and are still killing (even his fellow Catholics), he conveniently closes his eyes to it. Instead of Seal worrying about International Law trumping Talmudic, how about he think about that this is the 21st century, and you don't see civilized people killing others in the name of a religion like we see so many of the followers of Islam do in the Middle East, Southeast Asia and Africa.
Hamas video: Killing Jews is 'worship that draws us close to Allah' - Wilmington Conservative | Examiner.com