God = Allah = Abba = father

[logical4u]

This is not a linguistic discussion.

Are you a board monitor now?

Deception alert!

 

[logical4u]

Do you want to bet?
(John 5:46)
If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.

(John 14:9)
"Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."

(John 20:28)
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus did not rebuke him.

(John 1:1)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(John i:2)
The same was in the beginning with God.

(John 1:14)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I understand what the NT says about it. But there is nothing in the OT which would leave one to believe that the particular individual who was called Jesus was the person about whom the prophesies were written.

In fact, we don't believe he fulfills the prophesies.

So using your book to somehow substantiate something that ostensibly was in the OT isn't really that helpful. It's kind of like trying to prove your own statement ... with your own statement.

just for the heck of it, i'd also like to point out that the o/p isn't quite correct. allah is more closely related to elohim in hebrew... both mean G-d.... not 'father'.

Please, demonstrate how Mohommed resembles any of the prophets in the OT. Did he go to leaders of cities or countries and lead them to the Lord? Did he fast and humble himself in front of the Lord? He did not serve the Lord. He served another.

 

[Sunni Man]

Yes there are "good" muslims, but those people REJECT SHARIAH

That is like saying that the only good Christians are those who reject the 10 Commandments.

 

[Big Fitz]

The Torah does Not say that God rejected Ishmael.

In fact, it says the God blessed Ishmael and made him the Father of a great nation.

Okay, I misremembered something, for God did bless Ishmael. That said, the covenant is still with Issac, not Ishmael. And that does not make YWHW the same as Allah.

Actually, the Covenant was with Abraham.

If you want to split hairs, which I see you do, Ishmael's father was not Abraham, but Abram. I often wonder... Why did God change his name? Could it be that he was made a new creation in God's eyes? Could it just be cosmetic? Has God EVER done anything cosmetic only?

So if you want to split hairs, here's another slice for you to consider. And thanks to Roudy for reminding me to find why I thought Ishamel was rejected a la earlier passages of Genesis.

 

[Vidi]

Okay, I misremembered something, for God did bless Ishmael. That said, the covenant is still with Issac, not Ishmael. And that does not make YWHW the same as Allah.

Actually, the Covenant was with Abraham.

If you want to split hairs, which I see you do, Ishmael's father was not Abraham, but Abram. I often wonder... Why did God change his name? Could it be that he was made a new creation in God's eyes? Could it just be cosmetic? Has God EVER done anything cosmetic only?

So if you want to split hairs, here's another slice for you to consider. And thanks to Roudy for reminding me to find why I thought Ishamel was rejected a la earlier passages of Genesis.

It's not splitting hairs.

But you are correct on why the name change. Abram was made anew.

Genesis 17:5

Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

 

[Sunni Man]

Ishmael was neither rejected or estranged from his father Abraham or his brother Isaac.

 

[Roudy]

Ishmael was neither rejected or estranged from his father Abraham or his brother Isaac.

If Ishmael wasn't rejected then why did God instruct Abraham to kick him and Hagar out of his house? Why did God call Ishmael a wild unruly donkey? Do you think if Mohammad wasn't an illiterate, he would have been able to read these parts of the OT and not relate himself to somebody that God calls a wild donkey? Now, granted, God forgives Ishmael in the end, and when Abraham is dying, all his sons gather around his deathbed including Ishmael. But that's more of a consolation prize in order to say that Abraham wasn't at conflict with anybody in his family prior to his dying. The Promise and the Covenant is clearly given to Issac and his decendants, the Jews.

Maybe if Mohammad wasn't an illiterate he would have not entirely missed this critical part of the OT and related himself fraudulently and mistakenly to Ishmael. I give Mohammad an F for "interpreting other religions". What can we expect though? The guy was a caravan robbing terrorist thug, he must have thought he could hijack Judaism and Christianity and make something up.

 

[Sunni Man]

Genesis 25:8 Abraham breathed his last and died in a ripe old age, an old man and satisfied with life; and he was gathered to his people.

25:9 Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, facing Mamre,

 

[Big Fitz]

Genesis 25:8 Abraham breathed his last and died in a ripe old age, an old man and satisfied with life; and he was gathered to his people.

25:9 Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, facing Mamre,

Still doesn't make Allah the same as YHWY.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Do you want to bet?
(John 5:46)
If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.

(John 14:9)
"Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."

(John 20:28)
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus did not rebuke him.

(John 1:1)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(John i:2)
The same was in the beginning with God.

(John 1:14)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I understand what the NT says about it. But there is nothing in the OT which would leave one to believe that the particular individual who was called Jesus was the person about whom the prophesies were written.

In fact, we don't believe he fulfills the prophesies.

So using your book to somehow substantiate something that ostensibly was in the OT isn't really that helpful. It's kind of like trying to prove your own statement ... with your own statement.

just for the heck of it, i'd also like to point out that the o/p isn't quite correct. allah is more closely related to elohim in hebrew... both mean G-d.... not 'father'.

(Isaiah 7:14)
14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

(Isaiah 9:6)
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

(Micah 5:2)
2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

(Isaiah 53 3-7)
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Okay, I misremembered something, for God did bless Ishmael. That said, the covenant is still with Issac, not Ishmael. And that does not make YWHW the same as Allah.

Actually, the Covenant was with Abraham.

If you want to split hairs, which I see you do, Ishmael's father was not Abraham, but Abram. I often wonder... Why did God change his name? Could it be that he was made a new creation in God's eyes? Could it just be cosmetic? Has God EVER done anything cosmetic only?

So if you want to split hairs, here's another slice for you to consider. And thanks to Roudy for reminding me to find why I thought Ishamel was rejected a la earlier passages of Genesis.

Abraham was the start of the covenant with Israel Abram wasn't

 

[jillian]

Okay, I misremembered something, for God did bless Ishmael. That said, the covenant is still with Issac, not Ishmael. And that does not make YWHW the same as Allah.

Actually, the Covenant was with Abraham.

If you want to split hairs, which I see you do, Ishmael's father was not Abraham, but Abram. I often wonder... Why did God change his name? Could it be that he was made a new creation in God's eyes? Could it just be cosmetic? Has God EVER done anything cosmetic only?

So if you want to split hairs, here's another slice for you to consider. And thanks to Roudy for reminding me to find why I thought Ishamel was rejected a la earlier passages of Genesis.

his name was changed from Abram, for 'exaulted father', to Abraham 'father of many' and Sarai's name was changed to sarah... 'my princess' to 'princess'.

 

[Sunni Man]

According to Levitical Law the first born son gets double the blessing and inheritance.

Must be why the descendants of Ishmael have all of the oil.

And the descendants of Isaac have zip.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Actually, the Covenant was with Abraham.

If you want to split hairs, which I see you do, Ishmael's father was not Abraham, but Abram. I often wonder... Why did God change his name? Could it be that he was made a new creation in God's eyes? Could it just be cosmetic? Has God EVER done anything cosmetic only?

So if you want to split hairs, here's another slice for you to consider. And thanks to Roudy for reminding me to find why I thought Ishamel was rejected a la earlier passages of Genesis.

his name was changed from Abram, for 'exaulted father', to Abraham 'father of many' and Sarai's name was changed to sarah... 'my princess' to 'princess'.

When Sarai conceived her name wasn't changed just as with Abram.

 

[jillian]

According to Levitical Law the first born son gets double the blessing and inheritance.

Must be why the descendants of Ishmael have all of the oil.

And the descendants of Isaac have zip.

the children of ishmael have spent their lives suffering from the worst case of sibling rivalry in history.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

According to Levitical Law the first born son gets double the blessing and inheritance.

Must be why the descendants of Ishmael have all of the oil.

And the descendants of Isaac have zip.

You really want to lie don't you?

 

[jillian]

If you want to split hairs, which I see you do, Ishmael's father was not Abraham, but Abram. I often wonder... Why did God change his name? Could it be that he was made a new creation in God's eyes? Could it just be cosmetic? Has God EVER done anything cosmetic only?

So if you want to split hairs, here's another slice for you to consider. And thanks to Roudy for reminding me to find why I thought Ishamel was rejected a la earlier passages of Genesis.

his name was changed from Abram, for 'exaulted father', to Abraham 'father of many' and Sarai's name was changed to sarah... 'my princess' to 'princess'.

When Sarai conceived her name wasn't changed just as with Abram.

When Abram was 100 and Sarai 90, G-d promised Abram a son by Sarai. G-d changed Abram's name to Abraham (father of many), and Sarai's to Sarah (from "my princess" to "princess"). Sarah bore Abraham a son, Isaac (in Hebrew, Yitzchak), a name derived from the word "laughter," expressing Abraham's joy at having a son in his old age. (Gen 17-18)

Abraham

 

[Sunni Man]

According to Levitical Law the first born son gets double the blessing and inheritance.

Must be why the descendants of Ishmael have all of the oil.

And the descendants of Isaac have zip.

the children of ishmael have spent their lives suffering from the worst case of sibling rivalry in history.

I agree, the Jews are very hard to get along with.

 

[jillian]

According to Levitical Law the first born son gets double the blessing and inheritance.

Must be why the descendants of Ishmael have all of the oil.

And the descendants of Isaac have zip.

You really want to lie don't you?

sunni ijit lives in opposite land

 

[bigrebnc1775]

his name was changed from Abram, for 'exaulted father', to Abraham 'father of many' and Sarai's name was changed to sarah... 'my princess' to 'princess'.

When Sarai conceived her name wasn't changed just as with Abram.

When Abram was 100 and Sarai 90, G-d promised Abram a son by Sarai. G-d changed Abram's name to Abraham (father of many), and Sarai's to Sarah (from "my princess" to "princess"). Sarah bore Abraham a son, Isaac (in Hebrew, Yitzchak), a name derived from the word "laughter," expressing Abraham's joy at having a son in his old age. (Gen 17-18)

Abraham

Yes dear but Issac hadn't been born yet meaning when she conceived