Attn. Democrats: It's All On Your Shoulders Now

[editec]

This debate continues to come down to two questions

1. Would the banks have failed had Bush II (followed by Obama) not begun infusing the system with cash,; and

2. If it would have melted down what would the fallout from such an event have been?

Based on the fact that BOTH parties bought into the meltdown theory I can only assume that they were of the opinion that the meltdown would have been so bad that the very existence of the nation was threatened.

Were they right?

According to the Misesians, no.

According to the people in charge of the economy, yes.

NONE of us are really in a position to know for sure.

 

[Sarah G]

A big part of the stimulus is job creation. We can know for sure that the economy needed that especially the second half of 2008 where thousands of people were losing their jobs.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

A big part of the stimulus is job creation. We can know for sure that the economy needed that especially the second half of 2008 where thousands of people were losing their jobs.

Hate to break it to you but 600 thousand a month are STILL losing jobs dumb ass.

 

[Old Rocks]

There you go, again, Irie.

Raining on their parade by pointing out the facts.

He pointed out no 'facts' just ludicrous talking points.

The 'fact' is Obama did already raises taxes, on Cigerettes, that directly effect the poorest in this country, and Obama plans to sunset the Bush tax cuts, which means a tax increase next year.

THOSE are 'the facts.'

Dang, it sure does. Might prolong their lives, and force the government to pay them Social Security for a longer period. So why don't you Conservatives have a program of handing out cigarettes, for free, to our poor. In the name of fiscal conservatism.

 

[editec]

A big part of the stimulus is job creation. We can know for sure that the economy needed that especially the second half of 2008 where thousands of people were losing their jobs.

Yup.

So the question is will these efforts prime the pump such that capitalism can get back to doing the job that it does better than government?

I'm not entirely certain that it can.

Partially I'm not sure it can because the current structure of American capitalism doesn't want to put Americans to work, it wants to put foreignors to work and only needs Americans to buy their stuff.

Free trade strikes again!

 

[Old Rocks]

A big part of the stimulus is job creation. We can know for sure that the economy needed that especially the second half of 2008 where thousands of people were losing their jobs.

Hate to break it to you but 600 thousand a month are STILL losing jobs dumb ass.

Thank you, George aWol Bush, and all your supporters.

 

[Jon]

A big part of the stimulus is job creation. We can know for sure that the economy needed that especially the second half of 2008 where thousands of people were losing their jobs.

Hate to break it to you but 600 thousand a month are STILL losing jobs dumb ass.

Thank you, George aWol Bush, and all your supporters.

No, no, thank you George Bush, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and the rest of Congress for wasting taxpayers' dollars. We appreciate your ignorance.

Politicians: the only people who can do their jobs wrong on a daily basis and not get fired.

 

[driveby]

A big part of the stimulus is job creation. We can know for sure that the economy needed that especially the second half of 2008 where thousands of people were losing their jobs.

Hate to break it to you but 600 thousand a month are STILL losing jobs dumb ass.

Thank you, George aWol Bush, and all your supporters.

Get yourself a 2" x 2" post-it note, rip it in half, then write your list of negative things you don't blame Bush for ..........

 

[Iriemon]

They have waited 15 years to get back to what they had in 94.

Well, they have it now.

For years the right said that if the Left had this back, they would spend like mad, raise taxes and try to turn the nation socialist.

Looks like the right was spot on.

Except they haven't raised taxes, or at least not nearly enough given the projected deficits.

Deficits being CREATED BY the DEMOCRATS.

Exactly why they need to change the existing policies.

 

[Iriemon]

Deficits being CREATED BY the DEMOCRATS.

Massive deficits with no end in sight. Assuming that the economy does turn around, we would need to double GDP without increasing goverenment spending in order to get back to a balanced budget without raising taxes. If we can't do this, the only other option will be to double taxes.

I disagree, we have at least one other option and it is the one that we are currently using. We will simply continue to pile the debt upon the shoulders of our great grandchildren. So far that option seems to be working. Why should things change?

Now, that is not saying that this is the best option, but it is an option.

Immie

That has been the favored option of the last three Republican administrations. Other than the Murdoch conservatives using it for political advantages when a Republican is not in power, its the favored tactic of the pass the buck generation. That doesn't seem likely to change.

 

[Iriemon]

They have waited 15 years to get back to what they had in 94.

Well, they have it now.

For years the right said that if the Left had this back, they would spend like mad, raise taxes and try to turn the nation socialist.

Looks like the right was spot on.

Except they haven't raised taxes, or at least not nearly enough given the projected deficits.

Why would you want to steal more money out of the economy when there's certainly not enough in it? Government has been stealing enough money during the last 8 years, and stealing more certainly won't help.

Income taxes need to be completely annulled to pump much needed money into the economy, and spending needs to be, consequently, reduced to amount gathered from the other taxes (about ~$2T)

Balance the budget. Lots of alternatives to your proposal.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

What is wrong with Raise taxes, cut spending?

Nothing, but that's not what this administration is doing nor what it's going to do. They'll raise taxes and raise spending by even more.

But that is not the Republican platform either.

Maybe there is room for a third party. The anti-populists.

Platform--Taxes will increase, and Government service will drop.

Motto--You will swear it is socialism but it is not

Slogan--Good government is demonstrated by Surplusses, not deficits!!

But a government surplus is immoral... there is no right to the product of another man's labor... where government is taxing beyond it's needs it is stealing money from the individuals who it is taxing beyond the justifiable limits of government... which it is doing now and has since the second decade of the 20th century...

 

[Red Dawn]

Congratulations! You now have a fillibuster proof majority in Congress! Nothing can stop your agenda now! The solutions to the Economic crisis will be implemented by Democrats and Democrats alone. No Republican votes will be needed for anything! That means you will get all the credit as well.

The only problem is: If the economic situation stays as it is, Democrats will be 100% to blame! Oh, did a little twinge of doubt cross your mind just now? Did you experience a sense of foreboding perhaps?

Not me. You wanna' know why? Because now I'm certain I will get what I want: A vibrant, growing economy with near full employment and a very small or zero budget deficit.

And I know for certain that the Democrats will deliver. How do I know this? Because either the Democrats will return this economy to it's former glory, the one Americans have come to expect or another Political Party will. The 2010 elections are 18 only months away and if the economy isn't showing signs of turning around and growing, the Democrats will be out on their asses!

Americans like Obama for sure but remember: They liked Jimmy Carter as well. How long did he last? Yeah, let that sink in for a bit. Americans will dump Obama just as quick as they did Jimmy Carter if they see no results.

Guaranteed.

But I'm no hypocrite, I have integrity. This isn't about "My team beat your team in the Super Bowl" or "World Series" or something stupid like that. This is far more important. This is our country I'm talking about. This is our team. I don't care if Democrats, Republicans or the Libertarian Party turns it around. But I want it turned around. And I know most Americans want that as well. And just as Pro Sports teams fire their managers for compiling losing records, Americans will fire the Chief Executive for being a loser as well.

If Obamas' master plan works and we return to economic greatness, that means sustained growth in the 4% or greater area as well as low unemployment and shrinking deficits, which is what Obama promised when he ran for President, I will acknowledge that. And whats' more, just to show I mean business, I will then switch my voter registration to the Democrat Party.

Democrats, you've got 18 months until the 2010 Mid Term Elections. Show the voters you know how to fix things.

I told you and the GOP not to nominate or vote for Bush. He's the one who destroyed your party, and millions of libs told you he would be a disaster of a president.

Maybe you should have listened?

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Congratulations! You now have a fillibuster proof majority in Congress! Nothing can stop your agenda now! The solutions to the Economic crisis will be implemented by Democrats and Democrats alone. No Republican votes will be needed for anything! That means you will get all the credit as well.

The only problem is: If the economic situation stays as it is, Democrats will be 100% to blame! Oh, did a little twinge of doubt cross your mind just now? Did you experience a sense of foreboding perhaps?

Not me. You wanna' know why? Because now I'm certain I will get what I want: A vibrant, growing economy with near full employment and a very small or zero budget deficit.

And I know for certain that the Democrats will deliver. How do I know this? Because either the Democrats will return this economy to it's former glory, the one Americans have come to expect or another Political Party will. The 2010 elections are 18 only months away and if the economy isn't showing signs of turning around and growing, the Democrats will be out on their asses!

Americans like Obama for sure but remember: They liked Jimmy Carter as well. How long did he last? Yeah, let that sink in for a bit. Americans will dump Obama just as quick as they did Jimmy Carter if they see no results.

Guaranteed.

But I'm no hypocrite, I have integrity. This isn't about "My team beat your team in the Super Bowl" or "World Series" or something stupid like that. This is far more important. This is our country I'm talking about. This is our team. I don't care if Democrats, Republicans or the Libertarian Party turns it around. But I want it turned around. And I know most Americans want that as well. And just as Pro Sports teams fire their managers for compiling losing records, Americans will fire the Chief Executive for being a loser as well.

If Obamas' master plan works and we return to economic greatness, that means sustained growth in the 4% or greater area as well as low unemployment and shrinking deficits, which is what Obama promised when he ran for President, I will acknowledge that. And whats' more, just to show I mean business, I will then switch my voter registration to the Democrat Party.

Democrats, you've got 18 months until the 2010 Mid Term Elections. Show the voters you know how to fix things.

I told you and the GOP not to nominate or vote for Bush. He's the one who destroyed your party, and millions of libs told you he would be a disaster of a president.

Maybe you should have listened?

ROFLMNAO...

Well let's assume for the sake of argument that you're right...

What policy of Bush's do ya think lent themselves to the 'destruction of the GOP?'

Now please, be SPECIFIC... or at least as specific as your intellectual limitations allow...

 

[Red Dawn]

Congratulations! You now have a fillibuster proof majority in Congress! Nothing can stop your agenda now! The solutions to the Economic crisis will be implemented by Democrats and Democrats alone. No Republican votes will be needed for anything! That means you will get all the credit as well.

The only problem is: If the economic situation stays as it is, Democrats will be 100% to blame! Oh, did a little twinge of doubt cross your mind just now? Did you experience a sense of foreboding perhaps?

Not me. You wanna' know why? Because now I'm certain I will get what I want: A vibrant, growing economy with near full employment and a very small or zero budget deficit.

And I know for certain that the Democrats will deliver. How do I know this? Because either the Democrats will return this economy to it's former glory, the one Americans have come to expect or another Political Party will. The 2010 elections are 18 only months away and if the economy isn't showing signs of turning around and growing, the Democrats will be out on their asses!

Americans like Obama for sure but remember: They liked Jimmy Carter as well. How long did he last? Yeah, let that sink in for a bit. Americans will dump Obama just as quick as they did Jimmy Carter if they see no results.

Guaranteed.

But I'm no hypocrite, I have integrity. This isn't about "My team beat your team in the Super Bowl" or "World Series" or something stupid like that. This is far more important. This is our country I'm talking about. This is our team. I don't care if Democrats, Republicans or the Libertarian Party turns it around. But I want it turned around. And I know most Americans want that as well. And just as Pro Sports teams fire their managers for compiling losing records, Americans will fire the Chief Executive for being a loser as well.

If Obamas' master plan works and we return to economic greatness, that means sustained growth in the 4% or greater area as well as low unemployment and shrinking deficits, which is what Obama promised when he ran for President, I will acknowledge that. And whats' more, just to show I mean business, I will then switch my voter registration to the Democrat Party.

Democrats, you've got 18 months until the 2010 Mid Term Elections. Show the voters you know how to fix things.

I told you and the GOP not to nominate or vote for Bush. He's the one who destroyed your party, and millions of libs told you he would be a disaster of a president.

Maybe you should have listened?

ROFLMNAO...

Well let's assume for the sake of argument that you're right...

What policy of Bush's do ya think lent themselves to the 'destruction of the GOP?'

Now please, be SPECIFIC... or at least as specific as your intellectual limitations allow...

No, you're right.

I think the GOP should fully embrace Bush, defend him, and make Bush synonymous with the republican party. For years to come.

I'm sure you've spent 8 years defending your hero. No need to stop now!

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

I told you and the GOP not to nominate or vote for Bush. He's the one who destroyed your party, and millions of libs told you he would be a disaster of a president.

Maybe you should have listened?

ROFLMNAO...

Well let's assume for the sake of argument that you're right...

What policy of Bush's do ya think lent themselves to the 'destruction of the GOP?'

Now please, be SPECIFIC... or at least as specific as your intellectual limitations allow...

No, you're right.

I think the GOP should fully embrace Bush, defend him, and make Bush synonymous with the republican party. For years to come.

I'm sure you've spent 8 years defending your hero. No need to stop now!

Ok, so what I'm hearing is you can't actually provide a basis for your position; thus rendering it baseless and you to the ranks of profound morons...

Fair enough... I just wanted to give ya the opportunity to present an argument; given the 'new tone' of the board and all...

 

[Xenophon]

Dang, it sure does. Might prolong their lives, and force the government to pay them Social Security for a longer period. So why don't you Conservatives have a program of handing out cigarettes, for free, to our poor. In the name of fiscal conservatism.

You don't see me advocating fucking over the poor, you do that.

The laugh is you think 'it's for their own good' will make them stop smoking.

Haven't you noticed they still smoke?

And when BO passes Cap &trade, and the poor see their power bills double, will you laugh and tell them to go buy candles for their own good?

Knowing you, I would say the answer is yes.

 

[foggedinn]

It has always been on the shoulders of responsible democrats.

The republicans, for all of their electoral success, never quite learned how to govern. Republicans never seem to have learned that they had won. Being against what your in charge of just doesn't seem to work.

ROFLMNAO...

That's hysterical (in at least two contexts and on several levels...); the Republicans governed in exactly the same way as the Democrats governed... and that's where they failed.

I'd ask you to elucidate on your point, clarifying, in specific terms what you meant by 'governed' but such is clearly beyond your means... and this based upon the certianty that IF you had a deeper understanding; a sound basis for your point; you'd have already done so.

BUT... if I've misjudged you... please; do not hesitate to correct me. Thus, I await the looming confirmation.

Sometimes it doesn't take long to figure out who the village idiot is.