A lot of Atheist and agnostics just don't get it

[Meriweather]

Ever hear of Pascal's wager? Look it up. OK. My problem with that is, IF you are better off presuming a supernal creator exists, that opens up an other issue: Which religion actually represents the Devine creator? How are we to determine which is the actual from the false? Because there are an number of variables that can't be determined. So if Pascal was alive, I would ask him to redefine the logic behind his assertion.

As a person of faith, I do not agree with Pascal. First, his logic behind people of faith going to heaven and people without faith do not is questionable. Second, the primary purpose of a faith is to guide us through this life, not serve as a ticket into heaven.

Which religion is best may be determined by which religion brings one closest to God. I am of the mind that if a person persists in sincerely seeking God, God will be reaching out to that person no matter what faith community one chooses to become a part. I have a lot of faith in the Holy Spirit who renews the face of the entire earth, not just portions of it. Faith is a way of life, a way of living.

 

[Mike Dwight]

Well obviously you'd like some slime and filth like 1 Peter 1. That you have already been purchased for a price, Calvinist.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Peter 1 - New International Version
A True Baptist takes the SAT to see if they think Jesus will die for them for an adult baptism. AH wrong. Try next semester. Adult baptism . I like the sound of that. Pizza man...

 

[RodISHI]

It appears from all that they post here that they cannot perceive the Spirit that calls forth, comforts and keeps those who remain in faith and believe.

When truth is diligently sought it can open doors unimaginable.

Ever hear of Pascal's wager? Look it up. OK. My problem with that is, IF you are better off presuming a supernal creator exists, that opens up an other issue: Which religion actually represents the Devine creator? How are we to determine which is the actual from the false? Because there are an number of variables that can't be determined. So if Pascal was alive, I would ask him to redefine the logic behind his assertion.

How would you be able to bet with a life you are unaware of or do not believe that it exist?

Pascal's wager is an argument in philosophy presented by the seventeenth-century French philosopher, mathematician and physicist, Blaise Pascal (1623–1662). It posits that humans bet with their lives that God either exists or does not.

I know that, but say, even an atheist's short life matters to them, to who's benefit is it to believe in the afterlife or religious protocols when it can't be proven to matter in one human beings lifetime? Surely it can't be a cheap philosophical hedge as Pascal proposes?

The premises he goes by is flaw from the beginning. If humans/adam that living soul made by the blow of God's eternal breath are asleep they have no clue as they are as the dead. Being asleep means they have no awareness at all that their is a spirit of life in them. The spirit in them doesn't make its presence known to them so whatever they do they are still spiritually dead.

 

[RodISHI]

Well obviously you'd like some slime and filth like 1 Peter 1. That you have already been purchased for a price, Calvinist.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Peter 1 - New International Version

I don't use the NIV. and you precepts and mine are not one in the same.

 

[Mike Dwight]

You had 3 posts about choosing to believe yourself if the people of the world were already saved by Jesus through Grace alone and Faith alone, and you said they better check the Newspaper subscription.

 

[MaryL]

Ever hear of Pascal's wager? Look it up. OK. My problem with that is, IF you are better off presuming a supernal creator exists, that opens up an other issue: Which religion actually represents the Devine creator? How are we to determine which is the actual from the false? Because there are an number of variables that can't be determined. So if Pascal was alive, I would ask him to redefine the logic behind his assertion.

As a person of faith, I do not agree with Pascal. First, his logic behind people of faith going to heaven and people without faith do not is questionable. Second, the primary purpose of a faith is to guide us through this life, not serve as a ticket into heaven.

Which religion is best may be determined by which religion brings one closest to God. I am of the mind that if a person persists in sincerely seeking God, God will be reaching out to that person no matter what faith community one chooses to become a part. I have a lot of faith in the Holy Spirit who renews the face of the entire earth, not just portions of it. Faith is a way of life, a way of living.

Well, it's one thing to believe that there IS a supreme being/creator. (Might even bet you life there IS). But it's quite another, Betting you have (faith or knowledge ) which religion IS the one true religion...that's when we get into dodgy territory. Crusades and crashing planes into Manhattan.

 

[RodISHI]

You had 3 posts about choosing to believe yourself if the people of the world were already saved by Jesus through Grace alone and Faith alone, and you said they better check the Newspaper subscription.

You seem to be confused. Being saved by grace is one thing, overcoming is another and neither says anyone can continue in sin or expect a life of rose petals in the carnal world.

 

[Meriweather]

Well, it's one thing to believe that there IS a supreme being/creator. (Might even bet you life there IS). But it's quite another, Betting you have (faith or knowledge ) which religion IS the one true religion...that's when we get into dodgy territory. Crusades and crashing planes into Manhattan.

I advise everyone to disregard talk about a "one true religion" and to focus on God. I am not saying to disregard religion because our faith communities are vital in helping with spiritual growth and most lend a hand for our earthly needs as well. Focus on seeking God, discerning His will, and following it. People of all faiths should be aware that once we turn from a sin and replace it with something good, that sin is forgiven for all time--gone as if it never were. I am also a great believer that it is the small things in our lives that God cares about and that is where we are most apt to find Him--not in the big catastrophes and storms of life. This makes sense, because often when we are caught up in a storm, we are not able to focus on the small things and learn that God is with us, even when life events figuratively block Him from our view.

What we know is that neither the Crusades nor crashing planes into Manhattan brought mankind even an inch closer to deciding on a one true religion. It became a call for those religions to clean up their acts--and usually that call was made by the people in the pews (or on prayer rugs) who were insisting those in position of leadership and power do so.

 

[Mike Dwight]

Seen the religious arguments, they just didn’t work with me

Put in the same box as astrology, ghosts, reincarnation, unicorns and fairies

So that is your choice. No argument here. Believing or not is a choice you get to make.

OK OK. I know you were arguing with the other gentleman. A Protestant Lutheran school of thought may suggest to Falling away is still possible. However its total hypocrisy when people attack Predestination in Reformed Calvinism and then don't glorify how blessed it is to be absolutely saved on the Christian path. However, they focus instead that Presdestination made some places and people unreachable, which is proven 99% factual in history. What would you mean this time by "overcoming" , life is hard, or that there is some sort of sin and we're in need of an indulgence by the Church?​

 

[ding]

ding is nuts smuggling morality into Nature.

If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals. Morals can be anything we want them to be. The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome. Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos. So we can see from the outcomes that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. This is the moral law at work. If the universe was created by spirit for the express purpose of creating beings that know and create we would expect that we would receive feedback on how we behave. The problem is that violating moral laws are not like violating physical laws. When we violate a physical law the consequences are immediate. If you try to defy gravity by jumping off a roof you will fall. Whereas the consequences for violating a moral law are more probabilistic in nature; many times we get away with it.

Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed based upon some universal code of common decency that is independent of man.

So the question that naturally begs to be asked is if there is a universal code of common decency that is independent of man how come we all don't behave the same way when it comes to right and wrong? The reason man doesn't behave the same way is because of subjectivity. The difference between being objective and being subjective is bias. Bias is eliminated when there is no preference for an outcome. To eliminate a preference for an outcome one must have no thought of the consequences to one's self. If one does not practice this they will see subjective truth instead of objective truth. Subjective truth leads to moral relativism. Where consequences to self and preferences for an outcome leads to rationalizations of right and wrong.

Man does know right from wrong and when he violates it rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he did not violate it. You can see this behavior in almost all quarrels and disagreements. At the heart of every quarrel and disagreement is a belief in a universal right and wrong. So even though each side believes right to be different each side expects the other to believe their side should be universally known and accepted. It is this behavior which tells us there is an expectation for an absolute truth.

If there were never a universal truth that existed man would never have an expectation of fairness to begin with because fairness would have no meaning. The fact that each of us has an expectation of fairness and that we expect everyone else to follow ought to raise our suspicion on the origin of that expectation.

 

[captkaos]

In post #1, OP is mistaking truth for stupidity, which always gets precisely the reality it deserves. Trolling is a dubious term. Some might be interested in OP's definition of trolling posted here for all to read, and not have to go hunting for it. All dressed up and fairy tales to go, the exodus worldwide is toward knowledge rather than faith.

There is not a single religion that can definitively "prove their belief" All religions are created by man to control the thoughts and actions of others "for a price" . Submit or be cast out of Society give your wealth or be shunned , believe what we say or endure horrid consequences. Blah,Blah. You want people to believe in something you cant prove but condemn them for not embracing your Ghosts as anything but fantasy. I saw God today he was begging in Downtown Houston. he even had a sign saying he was the Messiah. Must be the true savior. LMAO

 

[Taz]

It appears from all that they post here that they cannot perceive the Spirit that calls forth, comforts and keeps those who remain in faith and believe.

When truth is diligently sought it can open doors unimaginable.

I just see no solid proof. All you have is faith, which is the belief of something that you know isn't proven.

I have all the proof I need for me. You will have to find your own.

Your concession is duly noted.

That is not a concession dummy that is telling you that it is up to you or anyone who doesn't believe and refuses to examine themselves in truth to find whatever proof you/they think you/they may need is totally up to you or them. Not me or anyone else.

I was given mine before you were a twinkle in your daddy's eyes and do not have a problem helping to edify others in their faith and beliefs who are like minded.

So you’re a grumpy old bitch as well. Got it.

 

[Meriweather]

There is not a single religion that can definitively "prove their belief" All religions are created by man to control the thoughts and actions of others "for a price" . Submit or be cast out of Society give your wealth or be shunned , believe what we say or endure horrid consequences. Blah,Blah. You want people to believe in something you cant prove but condemn them for not embracing your Ghosts as anything but fantasy. I saw God today he was begging in Downtown Houston. he even had a sign saying he was the Messiah. Must be the true savior. LMAO

Much too cynical!

Religion, and people seeking God, is more about creating a more meaningful and insightful life. It is about reaching and exploring beyond. Many humans are natural explorers and as such we can run into things that are beyond our ken, things we don't yet know and find difficult to describe.

The Jewish religion, and Jesus by extension, are about how to live this life, not about fearing the next. If you were caught up in a denomination that focused too much on the afterlife (be it heaven or hell) know that many Christian denominations do not. They focus on living quality lives today. That is not to say there are not denominations and parishes that deserve your criticism and that you received the short end of the stick in your faith journey.

 

[alang1216]

The definition of Natural Law which is also known as the Law of Right and Wrong and the Moral Law is a body of unchanging moral principles regarded as a basis for all human conduct. As determined by nature, the law of nature is implied to be objective and universal; it exists independently of human understanding and is very much a foundation of all religions.

Natural law: only the fittest survive

 

[Mike Dwight]

Well you should read Christ's morality regardless. I used to do some work on morality, when everyone's just going to read this other guy anyway. The Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John?

 

[ding]

The definition of Natural Law which is also known as the Law of Right and Wrong and the Moral Law is a body of unchanging moral principles regarded as a basis for all human conduct. As determined by nature, the law of nature is implied to be objective and universal; it exists independently of human understanding and is very much a foundation of all religions.

Natural law: only the fittest survive

That’s natural selection.

 

[alang1216]

Natural law: only the fittest survive

That’s natural selection.

The laws of nature.

 

[ding]

Natural law: only the fittest survive

That’s natural selection.

The laws of nature.

Natural law - Wikipedia

 

[RodISHI]

Seen the religious arguments, they just didn’t work with me

Put in the same box as astrology, ghosts, reincarnation, unicorns and fairies

So that is your choice. No argument here. Believing or not is a choice you get to make.

OK OK. I know you were arguing with the other gentleman. A Protestant Lutheran school of thought may suggest to Falling away is still possible. However its total hypocrisy when people attack Predestination in Reformed Calvinism and then don't glorify how blessed it is to be absolutely saved on the Christian path. However, they focus instead that Presdestination made some places and people unreachable, which is proven 99% factual in history. What would you mean this time by "overcoming" , life is hard, or that there is some sort of sin and we're in need of an indulgence by the Church?​

You will have to talk about religious types and the labels thereof with someone else.

Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
John 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

[Muhammed]

Agnostics totally don't get it. That's because this world is but like drawing in sand upon the beach. Their imaginary heroes, The 1996 Los Angelas SWAT team (which will subdue all of us one-handed) will be the beginning of the breaking of illusion upon the populous of LA>

Environment
Electricity
Excelsior
Enemas
Eyes

WTF was that?

FYI