Why do the God-haters persist?

[sealybobo]

Even if there is a spiritual connection, it causes thinking in humanity we don't see anywhere else. Therefore, that would be 'special thinking' in this context.

Well now you're being totally ridiculous. Spirituality caused special thinking that enables us to think up Spirituality??? A bit of circular logic there.

I do agree, our human spiritual connection does cause us to think differently, spawning all kinds of other attributes not found in other species. The argument is over whether the connection is real or false, and I maintain it must be real. A false connection would not have yielded these results and humans would have abandoned spirituality if there were nothing to it. From a totally rational perspective, one must consider either mankind believes they are making a spiritual connection, or they actually are making one.

If it takes 'real fucking moronic idiots to imagine something that isn't there in order to console fear and the unknown, and then do that their entire existence', and you don't believe that any religions are correct, then you are saying that is exactly what humanity has done, at the same time you say you don't believe they have done it. Perhaps the religions were created to try and explain spiritual connection, but they would still be made up.

Well no... Religions are based on something real, a spiritual connection. They are our way of trying to comprehend that connection. We didn't make up the spiritual connection and then create all these religions to comprehend what we made up for all of our existence, believing that it gave us great benefits and warded off dangers, console fears, etc. That just makes no sense whatsoever.



Language is a form of communication. We observe animals communicating all the time, some have 'languages' and some don't. The reason we have very complex ideas that need exchanging is because we are spiritually inspired creatures. This is what other animals lack that we have.



I'm just making the point that other animals have knowledge of things we don't have. Perhaps it is through better senses or instincts? Our capabilities are exemplary because we are spiritually connected creatures. We have a source of power to draw from that other animals don't have.



Stands to reason if inventing imaginary playmates to ward off fears or console in the unknown works for humans, that other animals would do it. Maybe not to the same degree, but at least to some degree, one example in a billion or something. The thing is, this meme has no basis of support in anything we've observed in nature. Other animals don't grapple with mortality or fear the unknown. They certainly don't create fake placebos and adopt meaningless rituals to console themselves, and then do that for all their existence even though there is no real benefit.



And all of those things come through our spiritual inspiration as spiritually connected creatures. We obviously didn't gain these attributes through evolution or we'd see signs of it in our common ancestors.



I've not said any religion is "false". I have said they are flawed because they were created by man and man is flawed.

You post as though fear of death, questions about the possibility of the afterlife, the creation of the universe and life, etc. are either already answered or not important enough for people to search out answers and comfort about. Are you serious? You say god did it isn't an answer....yet people have been satisfied with that as an answer to numerous questions throughout human history.

Well, no they haven't been satisfied with that. They created Science! They've also created new religions and modified old ones. My point was that no other species is concerned with mortality or afterlife, they aren't spiritually aware of anything beyond the physical. We have these 'important' questions because we are aware, we are spiritually connected to something greater than self.

Clearly, what you consider inadequate most people have disagreed with you on. On this issue you appear to be in agreement with the atheists and agnostics of the world.

The point about conclusive evidence doesn't elude me. You are the one who continues to make statements as though they are obvious facts without providing any real evidence of them. That's pretty much the theme of this entire thread.

I don't care who disagrees with me. Some people do. They live for acceptance and being liked by others. For me, I couldn't care less. Now I think I have supported all of my viewpoints with compelling arguments, whether you acknowledge my evidence or not, is really irrelevant to me. I've shot down the various memes to explain away spirituality in humans and destroyed those arguments. I can't prove anything to you, and I'm probably never going to change your mind, but I bet I've made you think. That's all I'm really after here.

You said humans would have abandoned spirituality if there were nothing to it. A. Not necessarily and B. Who says we aren’t moving that way?

You then said we didn't make up the spiritual connection and then create all these religions to comprehend what we made up for all of our existence. Yes we did.

You said the reason we have very complex ideas that need exchanging is because we are spiritually inspired creatures. Not a fact.

Our capabilities are exemplary because we are spiritually connected creatures. Another thing you say as fact that isn’t fact.

No other animals has a brain big/smart enough to have an imagination or come up with the concept of god. That doesn’t make god real or men smart. It just makes us the smartest animal on this planet capable of imagination. What other animals sit around and imagine fairy tales? A lot of your conclusions are incorrect. You’ve also said you experienced god. Science has explained that too. Every human-being ever born begins life as an implicit atheist and must be taught the concept of theism or, more commonly, indoctrinated with it. Actually, that isn’t 100% true because if man made up god thousands of years ago we could presumably make it up again. But without the thousands of years of brainwashing we’ve gotten from the god believers and with the science we have today, I doubt the concept would catch on today like it did back then. No one is killing you for doubting today. And if you did make it up today, you wouldn't have come up with the noah, adam and eve, moses stories unless either someone told you those stories and you believed them or if god himself told you. Today we rely on our churches and parents to brainwash us with religion. Even if you one day wise up and doubt christianity, you are the perfect example of someone who believes despite all the facts.

Here is science telling you your hunch is wrong: Morality is a cultural concept with a basis in evolutionary psychology and game theory. Species whose members were predisposed to cooperate were more likely to survive and pass on their genes. Reciprocacy, altruism and other so-called ‘moral’ characteristics are evident in many species. The neurochemical thought to regulate morality and empathy is oxytocin. Religious texts are simply part of many early attempts to codify moral precepts. Secular law, flexible with the shifting moral zeitgeist, has long since superseded religion as a source of moral directives for the majority of developed societies. Secular ethics offers a number of competing moral frameworks which do not derive from a purported supernatural source.
Question? How did Buddhists come up with the concept that there is no god? If they came up with it it must be true, just like you say god is true because we instinctively invented one. Nontheism plays a significant roles in Buddhism and Hinduism. While many approaches to religion exclude nontheism by definition, there are some inclusive definitions that show how religious practice and belief do not depend on the presence of god(s). For example: "religion can be defined as a relatively-bounded system of beliefs, symbols and practices that addresses the nature of existence, and in which communion with others and Otherness is lived as if it both takes in and spiritually transcends socially-grounded ontologies of time, space, embodiment and knowing".

 

[Mephisto]

LOL!!! YOUR IGNORANCE KNOWS NO BOUNDS!!!! but why show the world???

Revelation is an anti-Roman tract and a piece of war propaganda wrapped in one. The message: God would return and destroy the Romans who had destroyed Jerusalem.

YOU REALLY LOOK IGNORANT WHEN YOU TRY TO DEBATE WHAT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT!!! Why do that????

oh the irony of your statement

 

[thebrucebeat]

As for God being malevolent, I don't think this is possible. Mankind has been gaining courage and strength from the spiritual since we began to walk upright, according to archeology. This is largely why the attribute of human spirituality is so persistent in our history.

Here's where we finally agree. Human spirituality is largely attributable to mankind gaining something from it, getting courage and strength from it, and not because of any actual connection to a Spiritual Nature. You just made my case for me perfectly. Well done!

spirituality is a reaction to the unknown and to the fear of mortality, and it never goes away because the unknown NEVER goes away and we all have a 100% mortality rate, and that never changes. We pray, not to stop the lions from eating us, but because we know they will.

Again, you spew nonsense you've read on some Atheists blog. To scientifically state that humans "invented" spirituality, you need to find the point in human history that happened. You can't, because from the very oldest civilizations we are aware of, humans already had spirituality. What you are doing is speculating from the point of disbelief. God can't be real so humans must have invented spirituality.

Never been to an atheist blog. Sorry to disappoint you.
My argument gets a lot closer to a scientific one than yours does. I am using a far simpler explanation than inventing a completely unseen, unknowable entity.
Spirituality wasn't "invented", as the term implies an intention to create something preconceived. Spirituality, as you said, is largely a result of man needing to cope and reacting to that need spontaneously. As natural as a mother's love.
I am not "speculating from the point of disbelief" as I don't have disbelief. I have no data. I am not an atheist. I have told you this many times. Your choosing to ignore this tells us you prefer to argue from your preconceived notions rather than what you actually know.
Which is a character thing.

You don't seem to understand how you just refuted your own argument here... if the unknown never goes away, then what was the point of creating something imaginary to explain it, which doesn't actually explain anything? Seems a bit ridiculous to me. And why the hell would 88% of the species still believe in something spiritual?

No refutation at all, but I think you already know this. If the unknown never goes away, neither does the need to cope with it. The spiritual solution arbitrarily satisfies this need and creates a solution that not only can't be verified, but doesn't require the believer to do so. 88% of the population find this comfort far more compelling than facing any kind of unpleasantness.

Mortality is also not a very sound rationalization. No other species we know of has even understood mortality, much less had a fear of it that couldn't be dealt with. Man only comprehends mortality because he is aware of spiritual immortality. So you have your cart ahead of your horse here. It is through our spiritual connection to the immortal that we developed fears regarding our own mortality.

More silly! Man has the intellectual capacity to understand that when his buddy keels over and croaks, he can extrapolate that the same thing is likely to happen to him. Your crows don't get this. No spiritual connection necessary. He fears the abyss.

But somehow... some way... we're supposed to accept that humans, for 100k years or more, have believed in some false spiritual connection which (if false) can provide no tangible benefits, all because it doesn't explain the unknown or rectify what we fear? This doesn't even make rational sense.

Au contraire! The spiritual connection has great benefits to the believer in comfort and fear reduction. The object of the connection is irrelevant. The reality of the object is irrelevant. Only the belief is necessary to accomplish the goal of fear reduction. As you so eloquently put it, "Mankind has been gaining courage and strength from the spiritual since we began to walk upright, according to archeology. This is largely why the attribute of human spirituality is so persistent in our history."
Psychology 101 talks about the absolute necessity of rationalizations for the protection of the psyche in man. It is a staple, a knee-jerk reaction to coping with our own failings and shortcomings. I am not talking about crows figuring out how to do a task, so please don't drag out that derailment again. I am talking about the psychological term that describes the use of a false narrative to explain a dubious behavior. This is man's exlusive domain. It has not been documented in the animal world.
So to imagine this would continue throughout the history of man isn't shocking, it is expected.
It is what we do.

 

[HUGGY]

Even if there is a spiritual connection, it causes thinking in humanity we don't see anywhere else. Therefore, that would be 'special thinking' in this context.

Well now you're being totally ridiculous. Spirituality caused special thinking that enables us to think up Spirituality??? A bit of circular logic there.

I do agree, our human spiritual connection does cause us to think differently, spawning all kinds of other attributes not found in other species. The argument is over whether the connection is real or false, and I maintain it must be real. A false connection would not have yielded these results and humans would have abandoned spirituality if there were nothing to it. From a totally rational perspective, one must consider either mankind believes they are making a spiritual connection, or they actually are making one.

If it takes 'real fucking moronic idiots to imagine something that isn't there in order to console fear and the unknown, and then do that their entire existence', and you don't believe that any religions are correct, then you are saying that is exactly what humanity has done, at the same time you say you don't believe they have done it. Perhaps the religions were created to try and explain spiritual connection, but they would still be made up.

Well no... Religions are based on something real, a spiritual connection. They are our way of trying to comprehend that connection. We didn't make up the spiritual connection and then create all these religions to comprehend what we made up for all of our existence, believing that it gave us great benefits and warded off dangers, console fears, etc. That just makes no sense whatsoever.



Language is a form of communication. We observe animals communicating all the time, some have 'languages' and some don't. The reason we have very complex ideas that need exchanging is because we are spiritually inspired creatures. This is what other animals lack that we have.



I'm just making the point that other animals have knowledge of things we don't have. Perhaps it is through better senses or instincts? Our capabilities are exemplary because we are spiritually connected creatures. We have a source of power to draw from that other animals don't have.



Stands to reason if inventing imaginary playmates to ward off fears or console in the unknown works for humans, that other animals would do it. Maybe not to the same degree, but at least to some degree, one example in a billion or something. The thing is, this meme has no basis of support in anything we've observed in nature. Other animals don't grapple with mortality or fear the unknown. They certainly don't create fake placebos and adopt meaningless rituals to console themselves, and then do that for all their existence even though there is no real benefit.



And all of those things come through our spiritual inspiration as spiritually connected creatures. We obviously didn't gain these attributes through evolution or we'd see signs of it in our common ancestors.



I've not said any religion is "false". I have said they are flawed because they were created by man and man is flawed.

You post as though fear of death, questions about the possibility of the afterlife, the creation of the universe and life, etc. are either already answered or not important enough for people to search out answers and comfort about. Are you serious? You say god did it isn't an answer....yet people have been satisfied with that as an answer to numerous questions throughout human history.

Well, no they haven't been satisfied with that. They created Science! They've also created new religions and modified old ones. My point was that no other species is concerned with mortality or afterlife, they aren't spiritually aware of anything beyond the physical. We have these 'important' questions because we are aware, we are spiritually connected to something greater than self.

Clearly, what you consider inadequate most people have disagreed with you on. On this issue you appear to be in agreement with the atheists and agnostics of the world.

The point about conclusive evidence doesn't elude me. You are the one who continues to make statements as though they are obvious facts without providing any real evidence of them. That's pretty much the theme of this entire thread.

I don't care who disagrees with me. Some people do. They live for acceptance and being liked by others. For me, I couldn't care less.

Do you seriously think atheists base their conclusions on a need for an individual's popularity?

Now I think I have supported all of my viewpoints with compelling arguments, whether you acknowledge my evidence or not, is really irrelevant to me.

Interesting and amusing disclaimer.

I've shot down the various memes to explain away spirituality in humans and destroyed those arguments. I can't prove anything to you, and I'm probably never going to change your mind

As in most of your offerings ... self serving and patently untrue .. It isn't about YOU ..it is your words that don't convince

, but I bet I've made you think. That's all I'm really after here.

What most theists and in your case "spiritualists" assume incorrectly is that typical atheists haven't thought out their positions on the existance of a god before laying out an argument on a forum like USMB.

Atheists do not need to convince ourselves of the non existance of a god. We do not need to conjur up some "faith" to fall back on when arguing our thoughts about god and religion. Try not to take it personally when you discover that you will not be the one to convince an atheist that we are wrong and you are right.

The religists have had several thousands of years to come up with a convincing story and have failed.

 

[MaryL]

Why do god haters persist? Why is it God never shows up when ya need him? Never ever, pray, beg, cry, plead. Nothing. Really? Why is it you always hear about miracles, or when someone down the street gets cured of cancer. It's God's grace. When YOU don't get that same grace, it's god's will. OH, so mysterious. So full of shit.

 

[MaxGrit]

Why do god haters persist? Why is it God never shows up when ya need him? Never ever, pray, beg, cry, plead. Nothing. Really? Why is it you always hear about miracles, or when someone down the street gets cured of cancer. It's God's grace. When YOU don't get that same grace, it's god's will. OH, so mysterious. So full of shit.

What is the distinction between God's grace and God's will?

Or are you too stupid to know what you are talking about?

 

[Rockland]

I WILL GIVE YOU SOME HELP!!! THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD AND ALL others are demon inspired false so called gods!!!!

Whatever you say, dear.

GET off your lasy fat &%$ {blah blah blah}

Somehow I doubt God ever said "GET off your lasy fat &%$." If he did, your god is an even bigger asshole than I thought.

 

[Boss]

HuggyBear: What most theists and in your case "spiritualists" assume incorrectly is that typical atheists haven't thought out their positions on the existance (sic) of a god before laying out an argument on a forum like USMB.

Atheists do not need to convince ourselves of the non existance of a god. We do not need to conjur up some "faith" to fall back on when arguing our thoughts about god and religion. Try not to take it personally when you discover that you will not be the one to convince an atheist that we are wrong and you are right.

The religists have had several thousands of years to come up with a convincing story and have failed.

This is too hilarious not to respond to. First of all, you are incorrect, I have assumed no such thing. I think Atheists have thought out their positions, they are just really stupid people. They form arguments which are full of illogical and irrational points without any basis in science or observable nature, then parade those around as if they are facts. When challenged, they look down their snooty nose and recite some mantra from their Atheist heroes, toss out a few insults at religion and think they've "won" a debate.

As for FAITH, the Atheists are the people who have more actual FAITH than any religious person I know. It takes an enormous amount of faith to disbelieve what humans have known since we climbed out of the trees. To be so sure of yourself, to be so absolutely certain you are right... takes enormous amounts of sheer faith. Blind faith at that. To chalk everything you see around you up to happenstance and random chance, to reject man's inseparable connection to something spiritual for all our existence, to ignore that nearly 90% of us believe in something spiritual and always have.... Loads of faith! While people who have religious beliefs at least have some relevant documentation and history.

As I stated in the post before, and apparently you were too dumb to comprehend, I don't really care if you agree with me personally. I don't fool myself into thinking I am going to change your mind, maybe you are the kind of fool who thinks that, but not me. I don't state arguments to support or endorse religions, or to "prove" religious dogma. My arguments are purely from a rational point of view from someone who has a distinct advantage over you. You see, I already know the truth here, I am aware of a spiritual nature that you don't realize. That's why I can shoot holes in all your "theories" about Man and God.

 

[Hollie]

HuggyBear: What most theists and in your case "spiritualists" assume incorrectly is that typical atheists haven't thought out their positions on the existance (sic) of a god before laying out an argument on a forum like USMB.

Atheists do not need to convince ourselves of the non existance of a god. We do not need to conjur up some "faith" to fall back on when arguing our thoughts about god and religion. Try not to take it personally when you discover that you will not be the one to convince an atheist that we are wrong and you are right.

The religists have had several thousands of years to come up with a convincing story and have failed.

This is too hilarious not to respond to. First of all, you are incorrect, I have assumed no such thing. I think Atheists have thought out their positions, they are just really stupid people. They form arguments which are full of illogical and irrational points without any basis in science or observable nature, then parade those around as if they are facts. When challenged, they look down their snooty nose and recite some mantra from their Atheist heroes, toss out a few insults at religion and think they've "won" a debate.

As for FAITH, the Atheists are the people who have more actual FAITH than any religious person I know. It takes an enormous amount of faith to disbelieve what humans have known since we climbed out of the trees. To be so sure of yourself, to be so absolutely certain you are right... takes enormous amounts of sheer faith. Blind faith at that. To chalk everything you see around you up to happenstance and random chance, to reject man's inseparable connection to something spiritual for all our existence, to ignore that nearly 90% of us believe in something spiritual and always have.... Loads of faith! While people who have religious beliefs at least have some relevant documentation and history.

As I stated in the post before, and apparently you were too dumb to comprehend, I don't really care if you agree with me personally. I don't fool myself into thinking I am going to change your mind, maybe you are the kind of fool who thinks that, but not me. I don't state arguments to support or endorse religions, or to "prove" religious dogma. My arguments are purely from a rational point of view from someone who has a distinct advantage over you. You see, I already know the truth here, I am aware of a spiritual nature that you don't realize. That's why I can shoot holes in all your "theories" about Man and God.

The typical slathering from a religious zealot. Anyone who doesn't agree with their inventions of spirit worlds and supernatural reals is "dumb".

And as we see, boss "knows" truth about his spirit realms, thus his self-assessed superiority becomes "fact".

 

[DriftingSand]

I'm sure that makes Israel sleep better at night. Well let's pull our aid from them since god fights for them.

YES!!! NO MAN OR NATION THAT HAS GOD FIGHTING FOR THEM HAS ANY NEED FOR help from little man!

Aside from the fact that revelations is written about the Roman empire...

You've clearly never read the book of Revelation (singular ... not plural). It actually discusses several kingdoms. Preterists believe that the events discussed in that book have already taken place. Historicists believe that the events are ongoing and that some have taken place while others are yet to come. Futurists believe that the book foretells strictly future events. But it covers a LOT more than just the Roman Empire.

 

[DriftingSand]

HuggyBear: What most theists and in your case "spiritualists" assume incorrectly is that typical atheists haven't thought out their positions on the existance (sic) of a god before laying out an argument on a forum like USMB.

Atheists do not need to convince ourselves of the non existance of a god. We do not need to conjur up some "faith" to fall back on when arguing our thoughts about god and religion. Try not to take it personally when you discover that you will not be the one to convince an atheist that we are wrong and you are right.

The religists have had several thousands of years to come up with a convincing story and have failed.

This is too hilarious not to respond to. First of all, you are incorrect, I have assumed no such thing. I think Atheists have thought out their positions, they are just really stupid people. They form arguments which are full of illogical and irrational points without any basis in science or observable nature, then parade those around as if they are facts. When challenged, they look down their snooty nose and recite some mantra from their Atheist heroes, toss out a few insults at religion and think they've "won" a debate.

As for FAITH, the Atheists are the people who have more actual FAITH than any religious person I know. It takes an enormous amount of faith to disbelieve what humans have known since we climbed out of the trees. To be so sure of yourself, to be so absolutely certain you are right... takes enormous amounts of sheer faith. Blind faith at that. To chalk everything you see around you up to happenstance and random chance, to reject man's inseparable connection to something spiritual for all our existence, to ignore that nearly 90% of us believe in something spiritual and always have.... Loads of faith! While people who have religious beliefs at least have some relevant documentation and history.

As I stated in the post before, and apparently you were too dumb to comprehend, I don't really care if you agree with me personally. I don't fool myself into thinking I am going to change your mind, maybe you are the kind of fool who thinks that, but not me. I don't state arguments to support or endorse religions, or to "prove" religious dogma. My arguments are purely from a rational point of view from someone who has a distinct advantage over you. You see, I already know the truth here, I am aware of a spiritual nature that you don't realize. That's why I can shoot holes in all your "theories" about Man and God.

The typical slathering from a religious zealot. Anyone who doesn't agree with their inventions of spirit worlds and supernatural reals is "dumb".

And as we see, boss "knows" truth about his spirit realms, thus his self-assessed superiority becomes "fact".

And why does Hollie "know" more than anyone else? In fact, why don't you tell us what you KNOW to be the way things really are. The fact of the matter is that your little mind is no more enlightened than the hundreds of millions of other little minds on planet earth. The foundation upon which you stand is built upon your personal opinions.

 

[DriftingSand]

Aside from the fact that revelations is written about the Roman empire...

LOL!!! YOUR IGNORANCE KNOWS NO BOUNDS!!!! but why show the world???

Revelation is an anti-Roman tract and a piece of war propaganda wrapped in one. The message: God would return and destroy the Romans who had destroyed Jerusalem.

Again ... if you ever read Revelation you will find that the events are global in nature and not limited to a little section of Europe.

 

[DriftingSand]

Why do god haters persist? Why is it God never shows up when ya need him? Never ever, pray, beg, cry, plead. Nothing. Really? Why is it you always hear about miracles, or when someone down the street gets cured of cancer. It's God's grace. When YOU don't get that same grace, it's god's will. OH, so mysterious. So full of shit.

If you ever decide to read the Bible you'll find that prayers required belief and faith. God isn't a housecarl who just leaps to attention when someone snaps their fingers. He isn't an errand boy who runs around making people rich or buying them cars when they demand it.

The Bible also makes it clear that our prayer requests must be within the scope of God's will. In other words, even if I believe and have strong faith I can't expect God to answer a prayer that falls outside of His will.

To know what God's will for us is under the New Covenant in Christ we have to understand the New Covenant. That requires reading the Bible.

 

[Mephisto]

LOL!!! YOUR IGNORANCE KNOWS NO BOUNDS!!!! but why show the world???

Revelation is an anti-Roman tract and a piece of war propaganda wrapped in one. The message: God would return and destroy the Romans who had destroyed Jerusalem.

Again ... if you ever read Revelation you will find that the events are global in nature and not limited to a little section of Europe.

Judea is in Europe?

Fact: The book was written about the roman Empire and Nero. It's a war propaganda about how god will have his revenage on the Romans for what they did to his 'people'.

I do find it funny that Jews are God's chosen people. Does than mean if you're not Jewish that God doesn't give a fuck about you? if so...Christians are screwed

 

[Mephisto]

Why do god haters persist? Why is it God never shows up when ya need him? Never ever, pray, beg, cry, plead. Nothing. Really? Why is it you always hear about miracles, or when someone down the street gets cured of cancer. It's God's grace. When YOU don't get that same grace, it's god's will. OH, so mysterious. So full of shit.

If you ever decide to read the Bible you'll find that prayers required belief and faith. God isn't a housecarl who just leaps to attention when someone snaps their fingers. He isn't an errand boy who runs around making people rich or buying them cars when they demand it.

The Bible also makes it clear that our prayer requests must be within the scope of God's will. In other words, even if I believe and have strong faith I can't expect God to answer a prayer that falls outside of His will.

To know what God's will for us is under the New Covenant in Christ we have to understand the New Covenant. That requires reading the Bible.

So god can do whatever the fuck he wants...but his followers can't. IOW, god is a hypocrite.

 

[Hollie]

This is too hilarious not to respond to. First of all, you are incorrect, I have assumed no such thing. I think Atheists have thought out their positions, they are just really stupid people. They form arguments which are full of illogical and irrational points without any basis in science or observable nature, then parade those around as if they are facts. When challenged, they look down their snooty nose and recite some mantra from their Atheist heroes, toss out a few insults at religion and think they've "won" a debate.

As for FAITH, the Atheists are the people who have more actual FAITH than any religious person I know. It takes an enormous amount of faith to disbelieve what humans have known since we climbed out of the trees. To be so sure of yourself, to be so absolutely certain you are right... takes enormous amounts of sheer faith. Blind faith at that. To chalk everything you see around you up to happenstance and random chance, to reject man's inseparable connection to something spiritual for all our existence, to ignore that nearly 90% of us believe in something spiritual and always have.... Loads of faith! While people who have religious beliefs at least have some relevant documentation and history.

As I stated in the post before, and apparently you were too dumb to comprehend, I don't really care if you agree with me personally. I don't fool myself into thinking I am going to change your mind, maybe you are the kind of fool who thinks that, but not me. I don't state arguments to support or endorse religions, or to "prove" religious dogma. My arguments are purely from a rational point of view from someone who has a distinct advantage over you. You see, I already know the truth here, I am aware of a spiritual nature that you don't realize. That's why I can shoot holes in all your "theories" about Man and God.

The typical slathering from a religious zealot. Anyone who doesn't agree with their inventions of spirit worlds and supernatural reals is "dumb".

And as we see, boss "knows" truth about his spirit realms, thus his self-assessed superiority becomes "fact".

And why does Hollie "know" more than anyone else? In fact, why don't you tell us what you KNOW to be the way things really are. The fact of the matter is that your little mind is no more enlightened than the hundreds of millions of other little minds on planet earth. The foundation upon which you stand is built upon your personal opinions.

My, such an angry DriftingSand.

You apparently missed it by my comments regarding various conceptions of gods and the folks those gods are in charge of are typically concerned with the believers making a rational case for their gods.

I have no personal opinions supporting the existence of your gods vs. others and their claims to gods.

It's a simple question that confounds all the believers in competing versions of gods/supernatural entities: why are your gods true and others are not?

 

[GISMYS]

""why are your gods true and others are not? "" ?? TRY TO THINK!!! THERE IS ONLY TRUTH AND EVERYTHING ELSE ARE LIES.

 

[Mephisto]

""why are your gods true and others are not? "" ?? TRY TO THINK!!! THERE IS ONLY TRUTH AND EVERYTHING ELSE ARE LIES.

For Jews and Christians their god is the only truth. for Muslims Allah is the only truth...so which is it? Who's god is THE god?

Answer...no one's. First off Jews, Christians and Muslims are all decedents of Abraham, and are fighting over which child god likes more. It's quite funny.

 

[GISMYS]

""why are your gods true and others are not? "" ?? TRY TO THINK!!! THERE IS ONLY TRUTH AND EVERYTHING ELSE ARE LIES.

For Jews and Christians their god is the only truth. for Muslims Allah is the only truth...so which is it? Who's god is THE god?

Answer...no one's. First off Jews, Christians and Muslims are all decedents of Abraham, and are fighting over which child god likes more. It's quite funny.

GET OFF YOUR FAT LAZY #%@ AND SEEK TRUTH. TO SEEK AND KNOW TRUTH AND TO SHARE THAT TRUTH WITH OTHERS IS THE REASON AND PURPOSE OF LIFE!! think!

 

[Mephisto]

""why are your gods true and others are not? "" ?? TRY TO THINK!!! THERE IS ONLY TRUTH AND EVERYTHING ELSE ARE LIES.

For Jews and Christians their god is the only truth. for Muslims Allah is the only truth...so which is it? Who's god is THE god?

Answer...no one's. First off Jews, Christians and Muslims are all decedents of Abraham, and are fighting over which child god likes more. It's quite funny.

GET OFF YOUR FAT LAZY #%@ AND SEEK TRUTH. TO SEEK AND KNOW TRUTH AND TO SHARE THAT TRUTH WITH OTHERS IS THE REASON AND PURPOSE OF LIFE!! think!

Why are you yelling? I just want to know which god is the ultimate god? Jews, Christians or Muslims, after all it's all the same god that you folk are slaves for.