Zone1 Why All Rational People are Believers

[ding]

A Creator would surprise me but would not freak me out, I've always said I'm agnostic on that subject. What would freak me out would be if that Creator turned out to be the God of the Bible.

It's your lack of a realistic perception of God and your inability to override your bias which is keeping you from even considering your understanding of the God of Abraham is flawed. No offense but you read the bible like a 12 year old. Which is about the time you made up your mind, right? It's amazing you had the intellect to be able to wade through such heady subjects at the age of twelve. It took me about 15 years to wrap my mind around it and I didn't even began working on it until I was somewhere between 34 and 39 years old.

 

[ding]

Hardly obvious to me. We understand a lot about our current universe but not everything.

One of the earliest string theory notions is the "ekpyrotic" universe, which comes from the Greek word for "conflagration," or fire. In this scenario, what we know as the Big Bang was sparked by something else happening before it — the Big Bang was not a beginning, but one part of a larger process.

Everything I just said is obvious. That it's not obvious to you isn't surprising. You've never made the effort to understand it. The best you can say is you have looked for ways to not believe it.

Any psuedo science fiction you can find that can't address the creation of the CMB is a joke.

 

[alang1216]

It's your lack of a realistic perception of God and your inability to override your bias which is keeping you from even considering your understanding of the God of Abraham is flawed. No offense but you read the bible like a 12 year old. Which is about the time you made up your mind, right? It's amazing you had the intellect to be able to wade through such heady subjects at the age of twelve. It took me about 15 years to wrap my mind around it and I didn't even began working on it until I was somewhere between 34 and 39 years old.

It was logic and my own experience that convinced me there was no deity and, yes, I was about 12. I didn't read and study the Bible until I was an adult but it only reinforced my original conclusions.

That said, what is a realistic perception of God? Did you come by it from logic or evidence or faith?

 

[alang1216]

Everything I just said is obvious. That it's not obvious to you isn't surprising. You've never made the effort to understand it. The best you can say is you have looked for ways to not believe it.

Any psuedo science fiction you can find that can't address the creation of the CMB is a joke.

What you have said applies to the universe we are in at this moment, including the CMB. What you haven't addressed is what was here before the BB. Saying there is a Creator is a cop out since you can't say how this Creator did his work. You can't say who created the Creator or how many creators the are since there is zero evidence for any of it.

 

[ding]

It was logic and my own experience that convinced me there was no deity and, yes, I was about 12. I didn't read and study the Bible until I was an adult but it only reinforced my original conclusions.

That said, what is a realistic perception of God? Did you come by it from logic or evidence or faith?

Logic. The light of human reason. God is every extant attribute of reality. Weighty stuff for a 12 year old to be sure.

 

[Foxfyre]

The True Believers of the Church of J.C. of Latter Day Saints believe that if you lead a good life, you will be "exalted," which means that you will become a "god." In fact, they believe that the God of the Bible was once a man like us, who was exalted to godhood.

Imagine you are a god and you are bored. You lived a good life here and want to create world like this one, for your entertainment. There is one factor about this world that disturbs you a bit, but it cannot be helped, and it is this: Unless you want to micromanage every little thing on your Earth, life will be unfair. Seriously unfair. That is to say, some people will be born in abject poverty, some to great wealth. Some people will be born into a miserable society where disease darkens every day, and some will be born in "Canada." Some people will live their entire lives striving to do good things, but the frustrated by things over which they have no control, and others will blunder their way into great wealth and riches. It is really unavoidable.

But you, as god, can make one decision that rectifies all that. You can (a) choose to make the entirety of human existence the time between conception and natural death, or (b) you can create a means by with the unfairness of life will be rectified by an afterlife, an afterlife where a life of virtue is rewarded and a life of sloth or evil is either extinguished or punished. That is the one big choice that you can make.

I submit that although we are not gods, we can make that choice for ourselves. We can live our lives as though (b) were the actual facts of life.

Faith is not a gift from God. It is a choice that we make. Those who live according to (a) above (atheists, agnostics, etc.) are fools, and they add nothing to the world but their own production and consumption. It is sad.

I allow you your belief but I long ago believed we would not get into heaven based on good deeds but by the grace of God which indeed is a gift. Those who love and serve the Lord, however, are far more likely to do good deeds than those who do that for show or reward. Such has been in evidence since the days Jesus of Nazareth walked on the Earth. And I do not want anybody's faith shaken in what I believe is that truth.

 

[ding]

What you have said applies to the universe we are in at this moment, including the CMB. What you haven't addressed is what was here before the BB. Saying there is a Creator is a cop out since you can't say how this Creator did his work. You can't say who created the Creator or how many creators the are since there is zero evidence for any of it.

I did. Go back and reread what I wrote in post #39. I'm not seeing a lot of value in repeating what I have already said or in trying to convince you. You made up your mind when you were 12.

 

[alang1216]

Logic. The light of human reason. God is every extant attribute of reality. Weighty stuff for a 12 year old to be sure.

When you say 'God' you refer to the God of the Bible I presume and not just a Creator. Sorry but you can't define your reality as you wish it to be, that is not logical.

 

[ding]

When you say 'God' you refer to the God of the Bible I presume and not just a Creator. Sorry but you can't define your reality as you wish it to be, that is not logical.

I don't really care how others perceive God. Nor do I care if you believe I am being logical.

 

[alang1216]

I did. Go back and reread what I wrote in post #39. I'm not seeing a lot of value in repeating what I have already said or in trying to convince you. You made up your mind when you were 12.

Philosophy and semantics don't do it for me. I came to a logical conclusion at 12, one I still trust is correct. Everything I've learned since only reinforces that conclusion and no evidence I've encountered contradicts it. That is not the same as making up my mind in my book since I've spent years searching for knowledge, just as you have. We just started in a different place.

 

[alang1216]

I don't really care how others perceive God. Nor do I care if you believe I am being logical.

Sorry you've wasted all that effort then.

 

[ding]

Philosophy and semantics don't do it for me. I came to a logical conclusion at 12, one I still trust is correct. Everything I've learned since only reinforces that conclusion and no evidence I've encountered contradicts it. That is not the same as making up my mind in my book since I've spent years searching for knowledge, just as you have. We just started in a different place.

I'm so happy for you.

 

[ding]

Sorry you've wasted all that effort then.

Me too.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

I prefer not to mess with God and ask Him for a bunch of favors least He messes with me.

Speaking of being full of themselves...

Are you gonna step to God? You gonna flex on him? LOL

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Philosophy and semantics don't do it for me. I came to a logical conclusion at 12, one I still trust is correct.

Everything I've learned since only reinforces that conclusion and no evidence I've encountered contradicts it. That is not the same as making up my mind in my book since I've spent years searching for knowledge, just as you have. We just started in a different place.

Question:

Upon your death, do you hope God exists or do you hope God doesn't exist?

 

[1srelluc]

Speaking of being full of themselves...

Are you gonna step to God? You gonna flex on him? LOL

It's worked....so far.

You do you.

 

[ding]

Question:

Upon your death, do you hope God exists or do you hope God doesn't exist?

That's a really good question.

 

[alang1216]

Question:

Upon your death, do you hope God exists or do you hope God doesn't exist?

I absolutely hope He exists. Just like everyone else, I think I'm a good person and will be good to go at the last judgement. I don't think the question about believing in God will ever come up but if it does it would be a thank you for not being taken in by any false prophets. I'd also get points for being content with what God gave me and never expecting immortality too.

 

[ding]

I absolutely hope He exists. Just like everyone else, I think I'm a good person and will be good to go at the last judgement. I don't think the question about believing in God will ever come up but if it does it would be a thank you for not being taken in by any false prophets. I'd also get points for being content with what God gave me and never expecting immortality too.

But will you be capable or prepared to accept God's love after rejecting God's love all this time?

It's not like you have been ambivalent to God. You've been actively working against God. You put God on trial daily because you don't agree with the world he created. Your arguing against God is evidence of your judgement of God. You have weighed and measured God and found God lacking. Do you really believe you will be able to flip the switch and change your true color?

 

[alang1216]

But will you be capable or prepared to accept God's love after rejecting God's love all this time?

As I said, I'm content with what I've been given and know how lucky I am to be born in a country where I have a roof over my head, enough food to eat, good health, and a loving family to surround me.

It's not like you have been ambivalent to God. You've been actively working against God. You put God on trial daily because you don't agree with the world he created. Your arguing against God is evidence of your judgement of God. You have weighed and measured God and found God lacking. Do you really believe you will be able to flip the switch and change your true color?

Sorry but I don't accept that judgement. My problem has always been with the Biblical depiction of God. I'm content with what He has created, not what people have claimed about Him.