Zone1 Why do Protestants always believe their pastors rather than the 2000 year old CHURCH Christ established?

In fact, any time you see people relying on statues and images instead of the object of their faith, you have to ask why.
I have not seen you asking why--or even caring about the why. I see jumping to own conclusion. That will not stop me from asking others to join me in prayer or in believing where two or three are gathered, Jesus is with us.

Do you ever picture Jesus in the midst? Or is that purely a Catholic practice?
 
I don't kneel in front of a picture of a loved one, bow my head and clasp my hands in front of my face. Care to try again?

Oh, and I'm not a Protestant, just to take that off the table. You know, so you don't think I say dumb things.
no one ever wants to admit to being protestant. That's interesting all by itself.

Also, if you yourself bowed your head and clasped your hands in front of a photo of a loved one, does that mean you worship that person? That is so ridiculous. Yes, Catholics pray to Mary but that does not mean they worship her in place of God. protestants don't know how stupid they can look sometimes.
 
I have a statue of Jesus standing with his arms raised in victory. I've never prayed in front of it. It's just a nice reminded to me of Jesus's victory over death. I dislike the crucifix, which looks like a trophy that Satan would make and hang on his wall as a reminder of how he butchered Jesus.
His death and resurrection together are the two most significant events in human history. I would prefer seeing Him depicted as an ordinary looking first century semitic man, as he was not a 6-foot-tall Caucasian man with flowing, light-brown locks of hair, and there was nothing unusual about the way he looked.
 
I have not seen you asking why--or even caring about the why. I see jumping to own conclusion. That will not stop me from asking others to join me in prayer or in believing where two or three are gathered, Jesus is with us.

Do you ever picture Jesus in the midst? Or is that purely a Catholic practice?
We all pray together. We just don't bow or kneel in front of a statue of Mary to do it.
 
I have a statue of Jesus standing with his arms raised in victory. I've never prayed in front of it. It's just a nice reminded to me of Jesus's victory over death. I dislike the crucifix, which looks like a trophy that Satan would make and hang on his wall as a reminder of how he butchered Jesus.
another heretical comment.

Jesus chose to die as He did. He prayed to the Father that if salvation could happen another way (my words of course), then so be it. But it was the Father's will for Him to be crucified (although those exact words are not in the Bible).

My guess is you are about 25 years old or thereabouts.
 

1 John 2:9-11 ESV​

Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
 
We all pray together. We just don't bow or kneel in front of a statue of Mary to do it.
And therefore you believe it is wrong for others? I find, prayer in all its forms right and beautiful. It hurts me to think it offends you. There is no need for it to.
 

1 John 2:9-11 ESV​

Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
so, to you, does loving a homosexual mean accepting his homosexual acts?
 
His death and resurrection together are the two most significant events in human history. I would prefer seeing Him depicted as an ordinary looking first century semitic man, as he was not a 6-foot-tall Caucasian man with flowing, light-brown locks of hair, and there was nothing unusual about the way he looked.
The Catholic Church created the crucifix centuries after Christ's death. The Bible does mention the cross, but never a crucifix.
 
no one ever wants to admit to being protestant. That's interesting all by itself.

Also, if you yourself bowed your head and clasped your hands in front of a photo of a loved one, does that mean you worship that person? That is so ridiculous. Yes, Catholics pray to Mary but that does not mean they worship her in place of God. protestants don't know how stupid they can look sometimes.
There is a literal denomination named Protestant, and I am not a member of that denomination. Therefore, I am not a Protestant, any more than I am a Catholic because I am not a member of that denomination either. And why would I ever waste time praying to someone who is not God when He clearly states that the ONLY way to His throne is through the name of Yeshua? Mary's not listening. Let's look at what you said. You said you kneel in front of a statue representing Mary (because we have no idea what she really looked like) and you pray to Mary when you do it, but you don't want to be accused of worshipping Mary. You kneel before her statue and pray to her, but you don't worship her. What's left?

You're attempting to divert my attention through petty, juvenile insults and they're not working.
 
And therefore you believe it is wrong for others? I find, prayer in all its forms right and beautiful. It hurts me to think it offends you. There is no need for it to.
people must be pretty weak minded/hearted, or think others are, to think that kneeling before a statue forces the person to worship the wooden thing. It goes back to that photo analogy. Are people also forced to worship the person they see in a photo, just because maybe they are kneeling when they look at it! LOL
:oops:
 
There is a literal denomination named Protestant, and I am not a member of that denomination. Therefore, I am not a Protestant, any more than I am a Catholic because I am not a member of that denomination either. And why would I ever waste time praying to someone who is not God when He clearly states that the ONLY way to His throne is through the name of Yeshua? Mary's not listening. Let's look at what you said. You said you kneel in front of a statue representing Mary (because we have no idea what she really looked like) and you pray to Mary when you do it, but you don't want to be accused of worshipping Mary. You kneel before her statue and pray to her, but you don't worship her. What's left?

You're attempting to divert my attention through petty, juvenile insults and they're not working.
God made Mary

I haven't read your whole post yet but God made Mary. And He made her without original sin, so she is special. She was the mother of our Lord.

A statue of her hardly offends Him.
 
And therefore you believe it is wrong for others? I find, prayer in all its forms right and beautiful. It hurts me to think it offends you. There is no need for it to.
Like many things, the appearance of evil is enough for the Christian to not participate. Paul is famous for saying that he had no problem eating meat offered to idols but would refrain from doing so the rest of his life if it caused a brother to stumble and sin. "Everything is lawful to me, but not everything is useful".
 
Like many things, the appearance of evil is enough for the Christian to not participate. Paul is famous for saying that he had no problem eating meat offered to idols but would refrain from doing so the rest of his life if it caused a brother to stumble and sin. "Everything is lawful to me, but not everything is useful".
Are you saying that Catholic Christians are causing non-Catholic Christians to become idol worshipers? Holy images in a known holy place is seen as evil by non-Catholic Christians?

I have known many non-Catholic Christians who have come with me into a Catholic Church to pray. Not one of them began to worship idols. And not one of them suggested I was praying to an idol, either.

Our of curiosity, who taught you about Catholics and the Catholic Church?
 
God made Mary

I haven't read your whole post yet but God made Mary. And He made her without original sin, so she is special. She was the mother of our Lord.

A statue of her hardly offends Him.
First, there is nothing in Scripture that states Mary was without original sin.
Second, God prohibited ALL graven images made for people to worship. He never, for example, blessed anyone creating a statue that was supposed to represent Him to bow down in front of.
Third, a statue in itself is dead. The problem lies in what people do when they bow before it and pray.
 
Are you saying that Catholic Christians are causing non-Catholic Christians to become idol worshipers? Holy images in a known holy place is seen as evil by non-Catholic Christians?
What makes the images holy? They're just dead images with no power. It sounds like you're starting to claim they have power in themselves and deserve reverence. That's a problem.
I have known many non-Catholic Christians who have come with me into a Catholic Church to pray. Not one of them began to worship idols. And not one of them suggested I was praying to an idol, either.
Did they bow to a statue of Mary and pray to her? If so, you might want to reconsider your statement.
Our of curiosity, who taught you about Catholics and the Catholic Church?
Observation. I'm listening to what you're saying as well.
 
It sounds like you're starting to claim they have power in themselves and deserve reverence. That's a problem.
You know--and know very well--I am not. At the very least, I expect honesty from you.

You know that my argument to you all along is that the graven images commandment was direct to people of the time who actually believed an inanimate object had power. A symbol of holiness (like the cherubs on the ark, like the cherubs and faces of man in the Temple) have no power. They are symbols of holiness, directing ones thoughts to holiness and to God. God not only did not forbid holy symbols, He commanded them.
 

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