Zone1 Who Were the Israelites?

norwegen

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Dec 22, 2013
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Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 sum up the obedience-disobedience dichotomy that permeates the Old Testament, and for their habitual disobedience – or the Satan they allowed into their tabernacle – the Israelites on more than one occasion were enslaved until they were destroyed (Dt 28:48). Babylon absolutely devastated Judea, but not so much that it couldn’t be rebuilt, much to the chagrin of Judea’s neighbors. On behalf of these neighbors, Rehum and Shimshai explained to Artaxerxes king of Persia the consensus of opposition to rebuilding Jerusalem:

To Artaxerxes the king: Your servants, the men of the province Beyond the River, send greeting. And now be it known to the king that the Jews who came up from you to us have gone to Jerusalem. They are rebuilding that rebellious and wicked city. They are finishing the walls and repairing the foundations. Now be it known to the king that if this city is rebuilt and the walls finished, they will not pay tribute, custom, or toll, and the royal revenue will be impaired. Now because we eat the salt of the palace and it is not fitting for us to witness the king’s dishonor, therefore we send and inform the king, in order that search may be made in the book of the records of your fathers. You will find in the book of the records and learn that this city is a rebellious city, hurtful to kings and provinces, and that sedition was stirred up in it from of old. That was why this city was laid waste. We make known to the king that if this city is rebuilt and its walls finished, you will then have no possession in the province Beyond the River. (Ezr 4:11-16)​

But Cyrus king of Babylon had already freed the exiles to return to their capital and rebuild it. Although a faithful remnant would manage to rebuild their way of life, even after Babylon destroyed it in 586 BC, the factious tribal people persisted in their proclivities toward idolatry and warmongering, as the Old Testament generally illustrates, and ultimately were unable to rebuild their way of life after Rome destroyed it in AD 70.

This was Israel. Catch that: was Israel. Past tense. Chosen by God as a faithful people, they proved themselves largely unfaithful. Throughout their history, a faithful remnant persisted, but by and large, they disappointed God.

Now they’re extinct, and some of the righteous remnant foresaw this extinction, especially in the first century as they saw world-changing events occurring in Palestine: the crucifixion and resurrection; Pentecost and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit; mounting tensions in Judea between the Romans and the Jews.

I have got some blowback recently from people who insist that modern Jews are the same people as the ancient Jews, but is that really the case? Do modern Jews worship idols? Do they make war on those who don’t worship their God? Are they the violent, incestuous, drunkards that the Israelites were? Do they abide all the preposterous, draconian edicts of Old Covenant law?

I don’t think so. I find modern Jews rather industrious – prolific Nobel Prize recipients. They seem quite tolerant of outsiders and are arguably among the most civil of people.

If I were Jewish, I would find some kinship with Jacob’s progeny (though not genetic), but would keep my distance from the disobedient majority.
 
Again, only the Jews must be questioned about their identity and being or not being descended from the Israelites.

ONLY the Jews must be questioned about whether they are following the religion of their Patriarchs.

ONLY the Jews.....

ONLY the Jews.....

ONLY the Jews.....
 
Again, only the Jews must be questioned about their identity and being or not being descended from the Israelites.

ONLY the Jews must be questioned about whether they are following the religion of their Patriarchs.

ONLY the Jews.....

ONLY the Jews.....

ONLY the Jews.....
Why would anyone else be questioned about that?
 
Why would anyone else be questioned about that?
If one is going to endlessly question the veracity of today's Jews being the descendants of the Israelites, it is only fair that any other people be questioned as well.

How do we know that the British Monarchy goes back all the way 4 to 5000 years ago? That they are descendants of indigenous people of the Island to begin with?

How about today's Greek? Italians? etc, etc

Why is it that you do need to question today's Jews being descended of the Israelites? With what proof? As there is no proof whatsoever that they are not.
 
After centuries of migration and intermarriage, a people loses its genetic distinctions, especially a nation like Israel which had always had a significant diaspora.

This should be elementary.
 
From what I've heard, the Israelites were people who got up every morning, slaving for bread, sir
So that every mouth can be fed

Poor me Israelites, ah.

 
After centuries of migration and intermarriage, a people loses its genetic distinctions, especially a nation like Israel which had always had a significant diaspora.

This should be elementary.
That is all conjecture.

You know nothing about the Jewish People and how they kept their identity an religion, especially by NOT intermarrying as much as you think, or wish they did.

Elementary is your knowledge.

One needs a College degree for knowledge on this subject. Elementary school is not enough.

What is your need to delegitimize the Jewish People and their Nation?

Is yours a Christian point of view? Why should Jews listen to anyone who wants to delegitimize them and their history?
 
No it isn't. Social evolution is a fact.

That's a false accusation.

I believe the New Testament explanation as to whom ancient Israel has become. It is no longer a nation by blood but by faith.
Israel is a Nation by Blood, and it continues to be a Nation by Faith. And it is also a Nation by the Land of Israel.

You have not shown me, actually shown me one evidence that the Nation of Israel today is not descended of the Nation of Israel from 3000 years ago.

I have tons of evidence that they are.
 
Israel is a Nation by Blood, and it continues to be a Nation by Faith. And it also a Nation by the Land of Israel.

You have not shown me, actually shown me one evidence that the Nation of Israel today is not descended of the Nation of Israel from 3000 years ago.

I have tons of evidence that they are.
Are you proud of your alleged ancestors? Their idolatry and debauchery?
 
Are you proud of your alleged ancestors? Their idolatry and debauchery?
Are you an atheist? Are you still a Pagan? Is that your issue?

Are you upset at the Ancient Jews being the first to do away with Pagan gods?

Still no evidence at all from you that today's Jews are not descended from the Ancient Israelites.

Why? Because there is none.
 
Again, only the Jews must be questioned about their identity and being or not being descended from the Israelites.

ONLY the Jews must be questioned about whether they are following the religion of their Patriarchs.

ONLY the Jews.....

ONLY the Jews.....

ONLY the Jews.....

Who else would they question?
 
Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 sum up the obedience-disobedience dichotomy that permeates the Old Testament, and for their habitual disobedience – or the Satan they allowed into their tabernacle – the Israelites on more than one occasion were enslaved until they were destroyed (Dt 28:48). Babylon absolutely devastated Judea, but not so much that it couldn’t be rebuilt, much to the chagrin of Judea’s neighbors. On behalf of these neighbors, Rehum and Shimshai explained to Artaxerxes king of Persia the consensus of opposition to rebuilding Jerusalem:

To Artaxerxes the king: Your servants, the men of the province Beyond the River, send greeting. And now be it known to the king that the Jews who came up from you to us have gone to Jerusalem. They are rebuilding that rebellious and wicked city. They are finishing the walls and repairing the foundations. Now be it known to the king that if this city is rebuilt and the walls finished, they will not pay tribute, custom, or toll, and the royal revenue will be impaired. Now because we eat the salt of the palace and it is not fitting for us to witness the king’s dishonor, therefore we send and inform the king, in order that search may be made in the book of the records of your fathers. You will find in the book of the records and learn that this city is a rebellious city, hurtful to kings and provinces, and that sedition was stirred up in it from of old. That was why this city was laid waste. We make known to the king that if this city is rebuilt and its walls finished, you will then have no possession in the province Beyond the River. (Ezr 4:11-16)​

But Cyrus king of Babylon had already freed the exiles to return to their capital and rebuild it. Although a faithful remnant would manage to rebuild their way of life, even after Babylon destroyed it in 586 BC, the factious tribal people persisted in their proclivities toward idolatry and warmongering, as the Old Testament generally illustrates, and ultimately were unable to rebuild their way of life after Rome destroyed it in AD 70.

This was Israel. Catch that: was Israel. Past tense. Chosen by God as a faithful people, they proved themselves largely unfaithful. Throughout their history, a faithful remnant persisted, but by and large, they disappointed God.

Now they’re extinct, and some of the righteous remnant foresaw this extinction, especially in the first century as they saw world-changing events occurring in Palestine: the crucifixion and resurrection; Pentecost and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit; mounting tensions in Judea between the Romans and the Jews.

I have got some blowback recently from people who insist that modern Jews are the same people as the ancient Jews, but is that really the case? Do modern Jews worship idols? Do they make war on those who don’t worship their God? Are they the violent, incestuous, drunkards that the Israelites were? Do they abide all the preposterous, draconian edicts of Old Covenant law?

I don’t think so. I find modern Jews rather industrious – prolific Nobel Prize recipients. They seem quite tolerant of outsiders and are arguably among the most civil of people.

If I were Jewish, I would find some kinship with Jacob’s progeny (though not genetic), but would keep my distance from the disobedient majority.

Condensed into one passage of scripture: The Israelites were a nation of peoples "husbanded" by the God of Creation and bound by Covenant. A Nation of peoples that were constantly engaging in sin and not living up to the covenant (of Moses).........God used this nation as an example to THE WORLD at large in order to allow every man on earth the same opportunity for eternal salvation.......through a New Covenant, the last covenant between man and God, the covenant of grace introduced by God's only begotten Son, Christ Jesus. (Jer. 31:31-34)

No mention of Muhammad, Joesph Smith, Calvin, the RCC, the JWs, or any mythical far east religion......why? Because all are false doctrines. There is only one path that leads to the Father (the God of Creation), "I am the way, the truth, the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me. (Christ Jesus)" -- John 14:6
 
Mary was Judah. In the first century, Paul identified with Benjamin (Rom 11:1). But who else among the Israelites could identify with one of the twelve tribes? I would hazard that very few could. The Revelator seems to have captured the last of them in the Apocalypse.

After the Jewish-Roman wars, no one could identify with any of the original tribes.

What tribal religions exist now? Hinduism? Are castes synonymous with tribes? I don't know. Native Americans? Are their so-called tribes not more cultural than religious?

Christianity is certainly not a tribal religion; it's a very adaptable faith. Modern Judaism? Does it have tribes? Not that I know of.

Anyone who ranks Christianity among the ancient tribal religions is just ignorant.
 
After centuries of migration and intermarriage, a people loses its genetic distinctions, especially a nation like Israel which had always had a significant diaspora.

This should be elementary.
Israelites intermarried between the tribes. My ancestry includes several Israelite identities. God promised that in the dispersion "not a seed would fall to earth" indicating the preservation of the tribal identity of his people, even though their national identity was lost.
 
Mary was Judah. In the first century, Paul identified with Benjamin (Rom 11:1). But who else among the Israelites could identify with one of the twelve tribes? I would hazard that very few could. The Revelator seems to have captured the last of them in the Apocalypse.

After the Jewish-Roman wars, no one could identify with any of the original tribes.

What tribal religions exist now? Hinduism? Are castes synonymous with tribes? I don't know. Native Americans? Are their so-called tribes not more cultural than religious?

Christianity is certainly not a tribal religion; it's a very adaptable faith. Modern Judaism? Does it have tribes? Not that I know of.

Anyone who ranks Christianity among the ancient tribal religions is just ignorant.
The church is primarily gathered from Israel (the 'elect lady'). Where the Christian church is are the descendants of Israel. Look for the cross on their national flags.

As America was built by immigrants from all or most of the other Israelite peoples, and is the legacy of Manasseh, the thirteenth tribe, its flag represents all thirteen tribes by its thirteen stripes.
 
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