Nazis were Fascist not socialists

[Pellinore]

Dying from fentanyl and drugs and you are being replaced

That's called "The Great Replacement Theory" and it is the kind of weaponized racism that has been used as an excuse for some of the world's worst massacres, for centuries. Whoever is telling you that, don't believe them.

 

[ThirdTerm]

Hitler admired the Soviet system and he copied some socialist policies from the Soviets, such as the nationalization of major corporations, which were mostly owned by German Jews. The supporters of the National Socialist and fascist parties were frequently former socialists as Hayek pointed out.

Anti-capitalism played a more important role in Hitler's world view than is generally assumed. Hitler was sceptical about nationalising all means of production because, as a Social Darwinist, he feared that this would override natural selection in the economic sphere. From the mid-1930s, however, he became increasingly convinced that a planned economy was far superior to a market economy and, with time, came to increasingly admire the Soviet system.

Everyone who has watched the growth of these movements in Italy or in Germany has been struck by the number of leading men, from Mussolini downward (and not excluding Laval and Quisling), who began as socialists and ended as Fascists or Nazis. And what is true of the leaders is even more true of the rank and file of the movement. The relative ease with which a young communist could be converted into a Nazi or vice versa was generally known in Germany, best of all to the propagandists of the two parties. (Hayek, 2007, pp. 80–1)

They competed for the support of the same type of mind and reserved for each other the hatred of the heretic. But their practice showed how closely they are related. To both, the real enemy, the man with whom they had nothing in common and whom they could not hope to convince, is the liberal of the old type. (Hayek, 2007, p. 81)

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ecaf.12551

 

[Deadstick]

Hey there. I'm an American historian and former history and US Government teacher with an MA in American history. This is my field.

You are correct. Socialism is all about the promise of equality for everyone, and the guarantee that every person, no matter who they are or what they do, deserves equal benefits of society. (Think about it: every socialist you've ever heard of has at least made this promise.) Obviously, promising this to the masses of poor people at the "bottom" of society can make someone very popular, very quickly.

Mussolini started the Fascist party (capital 'F') with the idea that the Italian people were betrayed and demanded more from society; in other words, nationalism. The last thing nationalism wants is equality; they want to set themselves higher. The term 'national socialist' popped up for basically marketing and branding reasons, selling the idea that everyone in our nation deserves equal benefits, but not all of those others.

Hitler adopted fascism (small 'f', the general concept named for the party) to German culture and called his party the 'National Socialists,' for which the abbreviation of the German term is 'Nazi,' and there they are. They hated the Communists and their lack of social hierarchy, push of labor unions, and insistence that the Nazis shouldn't own everything because no one should own everything. Hitler and pals couldn't wait to blame the Reichstag Fire on a Communist agitator, for example, executing the guy and then using the "attack" as an excuse to seize total power, which he never gave up.

Communism (which is based on socialism) and Fascism (including Nazis) are both authoritarian, which makes them both the opponents of democracy but they also are directly opposed to each other. If it helps to think of them in pop culture terms, you can think of them as Klingons and Romulans.

But yes. You are correct.

Good post, i read a long time ago the only reason the NSDAP included the word Socialist was because they wanted to appeal to as many of the population as possible, some Nazis were against including the word Socialist but were overruled, most socialists ended up in Dachau and other camps.

 

[Deadstick]

Hitler admired the Soviet system and he copied some socialist policies from the Soviets, such as the nationalization of major corporations, which were mostly owned by German Jews. The supporters of the National Socialist and fascist parties were frequently former socialists as Hayek pointed out.

Anti-capitalism played a more important role in Hitler's world view than is generally assumed. Hitler was sceptical about nationalising all means of production because, as a Social Darwinist, he feared that this would override natural selection in the economic sphere. From the mid-1930s, however, he became increasingly convinced that a planned economy was far superior to a market economy and, with time, came to increasingly admire the Soviet system.

Everyone who has watched the growth of these movements in Italy or in Germany has been struck by the number of leading men, from Mussolini downward (and not excluding Laval and Quisling), who began as socialists and ended as Fascists or Nazis. And what is true of the leaders is even more true of the rank and file of the movement. The relative ease with which a young communist could be converted into a Nazi or vice versa was generally known in Germany, best of all to the propagandists of the two parties. (Hayek, 2007, pp. 80–1)

They competed for the support of the same type of mind and reserved for each other the hatred of the heretic. But their practice showed how closely they are related. To both, the real enemy, the man with whom they had nothing in common and whom they could not hope to convince, is the liberal of the old type. (Hayek, 2007, p. 81)

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ecaf.12551

Hitler worked with the German big corporations like Krup and IG Farben they were partners in crime.

 

[Quasar44]

That's called "The Great Replacement Theory" and it is the kind of weaponized racism that has been used as an excuse for some of the world's worst massacres, for centuries. Whoever is telling you that, don't believe them.

Why they are flooding the country with non whites by the tens of millions!!
Soon it will be a non European country

 

[Ringo]

Hey there. I'm an American historian and former history and US Government teacher with an MA in American history. This is my field.
You are correct. Socialism is all about the promise of equality for everyone, and the guarantee that every person, no matter who they are or what they do, deserves equal benefits of society.

I can tell you're an American history teacher. A teacher of capitalist propaganda. It is this propaganda that preaches that communists are for equalization. and are going to take away your last pants to share with your neighbor.
I don't want to start a long discussion, but I would like to point out that the slogan of socialist economics is “From each according to his ability, to each according to his WORK”. Which immediately cancels out the tawdry propaganda of the capitalists.
Under socialism there is a commodity economy, there is money and therefore there is economic inequality. Socialism promises satisfaction of all basic human needs, i.e. not to be hungry, undressed, homeless, without medical care and uneducated. Otherwise, the individual under socialism is the creator of his own happiness and success, provided that he does not achieve economic success by exploiting the labor of his fellow citizens.

 

[Foxfyre]

They only used socialists in their party name because it was very popular at the time

They hated the working class , peasants and unions

Their pact with giant corporations and industries was only to benefit the elites of the party

Hitler hated communist and many Jews were also far leftist in Europe and communism members

The Nazis were not socialists but they masqueraded as and sold themselves as socialists to earn the trust of the people enough to be able to take control of the media, education, religious institutions, big business, and government etc. without a great deal of resistance.

Once they had totalitarian power, the only thing about them that was socialist was the name they called themselves. They were fascists in its most totalitarian/dictatorial form.

 

[Stryder50]

They only used socialists in their party name because it was very popular at the time

They hated the working class , peasants and unions

Their pact with giant corporations and industries was only to benefit the elites of the party

Hitler hated communist and many Jews were also far leftist in Europe and communism members

All Socialist forms of government have some degree of Fascism in them.
It's the authoritarian roots they want to assert.

The "Party", and it's platform/agenda existed before Hitler had influence or power. They selected him as spokesperson due to his oratory skills and public charisma. The working class was seen as their foundational membership, so long as such weren't communist.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

I figured Hayek would show up here eventually.

Hayek was a dedicated anti-socialist, and in an effort to equate the Communists with the world's most hated villains (the Nazis) he proposed redefining the traditional political terminology that had been in place since Napoleon. Instead of defining left and right "wings" between equality and hierarchy, he attempted to convince people that since the Communists were lefties and the Communists were anti-democratic authoritarians, the left was the refuge of anti-democratic authoritarians. The right, he said, was for democracy and freedom and so on.

Hayek was primarily an economist, not a political theorist. His ideas were read and applauded for the perspective, but the overall concept wasn't adopted by the political community. Since political science is a science, its terms are determined by usage within the community and, especially these days, Hayek's ideas of left and right are generally not followed except by a relatively small group of people who really, really want to paint the left wing as universally evil.

So yeah, Hayek had some good ideas but his theories are not the rulebook, by any stretch.

Hate to say this but the far left wing of Socialism IS, Communism.

Just a reminder of Communism. And if you think that the United States could do Communism better.....

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

The Nazis were not socialists but they masqueraded as and sold themselves as socialists to earn the trust of the people enough to be able to take control of the media, education, religious institutions, big business, and government etc. without a great deal of resistance.

Once they had totalitarian power, the only thing about them that was socialist was the name they called themselves. They were fascists in its most totalitarian/dictatorial form.

Once again, someone doesnt understand what "Central Government" is.

 

[Pellinore]

I can tell you're an American history teacher. A teacher of capitalist propaganda. It is this propaganda that preaches that communists are for equalization. and are going to take away your last pants to share with your neighbor.
I don't want to start a long discussion, but I would like to point out that the slogan of socialist economics is “From each according to his ability, to each according to his WORK”. Which immediately cancels out the tawdry propaganda of the capitalists.
Under socialism there is a commodity economy, there is money and therefore there is economic inequality. Socialism promises satisfaction of all basic human needs, i.e. not to be hungry, undressed, homeless, without medical care and uneducated. Otherwise, the individual under socialism is the creator of his own happiness and success, provided that he does not achieve economic success by exploiting the labor of his fellow citizens.

I don't know how you got that from my post, but no, I'm not interested in "capitalist propaganda" at all. Like most countries, we have a mixed economy, with many industries running by capitalist standards (private ownership, price points, and profit) but others such as fire protection, road maintenance, and public schools run by socialist standards of public ownership and funding, with their product distributed by need. The difference between our capitalism and the democratic socialism of Scandinavian nations is mostly seen in certain industries such as health care which we, for whatever reason, choose to run as for-profit.

Socialism's bad rep here in the States is mostly the legacy of a campaign that's been going since the early Cold War, trying to redefine it as this evil plot to steal your hard-earned money and give to lazy poor freeloader. That's not what it is, of course, it's a tool that we've been using since founding, but that's a whole 'nother thread.

The upshot is that neither capitalism nor socialism work on their own. Any honest historian or economist should recognize that, and fortunately most do.

 

[Pellinore]

All Socialist forms of government have some degree of Fascism in them.
It's the authoritarian roots they want to assert.

The "Party", and it's platform/agenda existed before Hitler had influence or power. They selected him as spokesperson due to his oratory skills and public charisma. The working class was seen as their foundational membership, so long as such weren't communist.

I think you're confusing 'Fascist' with 'authoritarian.' People do that a lot these days. Also, socialism is an economic system, which is used in some authoritarian government systems (communism) and also used in democratic ones (democratic socialism).

The party did exist before Hitler, this is true. It was pretty small and called itself the German Workers' Party. After Hitler was placed front and center, it changed its name to the National Socialist German Worker's Party, or Nazi for short.

 

[Foxfyre]

Once again, someone doesnt understand what "Central Government" is.

Well that someone isn't me. How about you?

 

[Pellinore]

Hate to say this but the far left wing of Socialism IS, Communism.

Just a reminder of Communism. And if you think that the United States could do Communism better.....
View attachment 1014840

Socialism is an economic system, not a point on the political spectrum. But, because so many on the left love it, it's often used to mean the whole left wing. In that context, yeah, communism is the authoritarian, far-left, wackadoo extreme of the left wing.

It also doesn't work, as your graphic shows.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Socialism is an economic system, not a point on the political spectrum. But, because so many on the left love it, it's often used to mean the whole left wing. In that context, yeah, communism is the authoritarian, far-left, wackadoo extreme of the left wing.

It also doesn't work, as your graphic shows.

Socialism is the basis on whether a group of people will go to one extreme or the other. But is always starts with a government that takes away from the hard working people, and gives it to non working assholes. Then when those working have had enough, they dont work anymore, and that is when the government must come in with the point of a gun and force people to work (Communism).

 

[Deadstick]

Hate to say this but the far left wing of Socialism IS, Communism.

Just a reminder of Communism. And if you think that the United States could do Communism better.....
View attachment 1014840

Cool story.

 

[Pellinore]

Socialism is the basis on whether a group of people will go to one extreme or the other. But is always starts with a government that takes away from the hard working people, and gives it to non working assholes. Then when those working have had enough, they dont work anymore, and that is when the government must come in with the point of a gun and force people to work (Communism).

Okay, that's forced redistribution of wealth. If you don't like it, that's fine, but it's not socialism.

Socialism is when industry is owned by the people, and administered by the government on our behalf. People are assigned jobs based on what they're good at, the industry decides what product or service to make based on need, and then it is given to whoever needs it. No money involved.

By contrast, capitalism is industry that is privately owned. The owner hires workers, makes a product of their choice, sells it for whatever price, then pays his workers. This is the system we use for lots of things, from Coke to Levi's to GM to whatever else.

Communism is a type of authoritarian government. It uses socialism, but that's just a tool; there are democracies in the world that use socialism too, and they're just fine. In fact, we're one of them: Like most countries, we have a mixed economy, part capitalism but part socialism too. It's nothing to be afraid of, we use it all the time.

Anyone trying to convince you that socialism is an evil plot to take your money is not working in your best interests.

 

[Deadstick]

Okay, that's forced redistribution of wealth. If you don't like it, that's fine, but it's not socialism.

Socialism is when industry is owned by the people, and administered by the government on our behalf. People are assigned jobs based on what they're good at, the industry decides what product or service to make based on need, and then it is given to whoever needs it. No money involved.

By contrast, capitalism is industry that is privately owned. The owner hires workers, makes a product of their choice, sells it for whatever price, then pays his workers. This is the system we use for lots of things, from Coke to Levi's to GM to whatever else.

Communism is a type of authoritarian government. It uses socialism, but that's just a tool; there are democracies in the world that use socialism too, and they're just fine. In fact, we're one of them: Like most countries, we have a mixed economy, part capitalism but part socialism too. It's nothing to be afraid of, we use it all the time.

Anyone trying to convince you that socialism is an evil plot to take your money is not working in your best interests.

Partly true, however Socialism doesn't mean total control of the means of production just that there should be checks and balances on industry so workers are not exploited, but some industry essential to the Country should be in State hands such as energy, rail, water etc,at the moment we have Corporate fascism.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Okay, that's forced redistribution of wealth. If you don't like it, that's fine, but it's not socialism.

Socialism is when industry is owned by the people, and administered by the government on our behalf. People are assigned jobs based on what they're good at, the industry decides what product or service to make based on need, and then it is given to whoever needs it. No money involved.

By contrast, capitalism is industry that is privately owned. The owner hires workers, makes a product of their choice, sells it for whatever price, then pays his workers. This is the system we use for lots of things, from Coke to Levi's to GM to whatever else.

Communism is a type of authoritarian government. It uses socialism, but that's just a tool; there are democracies in the world that use socialism too, and they're just fine. In fact, we're one of them: Like most countries, we have a mixed economy, part capitalism but part socialism too. It's nothing to be afraid of, we use it all the time.

Anyone trying to convince you that socialism is an evil plot to take your money is not working in your best interests.

It always starts as Socialism. Geez , you dont have to be a rocket scientist to understand that. Soviet Socialist Society of Russia. Started Socialist, then when everyone stopped working, out came the guns. Venezuela, Socialist at first, then when everyone stopped working, Communist. Cuba, started Socialist, get the drift.

 

[Ringo]

WHAT distinguishes Man from Animal ?....
Man thinks, animal reflects. .....
Here, for example.
ALL AGREE on the fundamentals of communism ...
as long as you don't call it communism ...
Then some people's brains turn on the propaganda and see some gulag ... and nothing else.