Zone1 Who Were the Israelites?

[irosie91]

Religion is not based upon one's geneaology........strange is it not that Christianity was exclusively reserved for those who share the supposed same markers as you for the 1st decade of the faith's existence? And some 600 years later those same geneaology markers were found within the Muslim faith? Religion comes from Hearing and Learning, not one's physical geneaology. There are families that can hold many different religious disciplines within the same family tree. One is not born into a religion/faith, one is born into humanity as an agent of freewill.

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

try to stick to that which you UNDERSTAND-----your answer indicates that
you are incapable of understanding even your own citation as it relates to the
science of genetics

 

[Woodznutz]

Religion is not based upon one's geneaology........strange is it not that Christianity was exclusively reserved for those who share the supposed same markers as you for the 1st decade of the faith's existence? And some 600 years later those same geneaology markers were found within the Muslim faith? Religion comes from Hearing and Learning, not one's physical geneaology. There are families that can hold many different religious disciplines within the same family tree. One is not born into a religion/faith, one is born into humanity as an agent of freewill.

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

The Christian nations are the descendants of Israel.

 

[norwegen]

The Christian nations are the descendants of Israel.

Not ethnic Israel. Foreigners started carrying that mantle early on.

 

[Woodznutz]

Not ethnic Israel. Foreigners started carrying that mantle early on.

Good point.

Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

 

[Clyde 154]

The Christian nations are the descendants of Israel.

Christianity is a nation in all by itself, Spiritual Israel/Jerusalem, with both Jew and Gentile becoming ONE in Christ Jesus. (Gal.3:27-29). Judaism as condoned by the God of creation ended in 70 A.D. with the total destruction of Jerusalem and the scattering of the Jews around the globe, just as prophesied by Jesus Christ .....these things happened to the generation that was living during the ministry of Jesus Christ (Matthew 23:36, 24:34) God had promised that Biblical Israel would be destroyed and never made whole/complete again if it continued to ignore the righteous laws of God and He would allow a new covenant, unlike the covenant delivered by Moses on Mt. Sinai (Jer.31:31-34). God promised that He would allow the destruction of Israel if they continued to disobey (Lev. 26:27-39). They would be driven from the land of promise (Deut. 4:25-28). They would cease being a nation (Deut. 8:19-20). All these thing happened just as God declared....with Jesus warning His generation that these thing would happen during their very generation in the 1st century (Matt.23:36)

History Actual tells us that Biblical Israel was destroyed by the Roman Empire in the 1st century, with the Jews driven from the land of promise........never to be made whole again, like a potters jar that was broken it might be pieced back together but never made whole again (Jer. 19:7-13). The nation calling itself Israel today is but a poor copy, a reproduction created not by God but by man, (the United Nations). No tribal ID, No Royal Priesthood, No King appointed by God but a government created and ruled by men.........no temple, no land of promise.

The subject matter of Matt. 24:1-34 is the Christs' discussion with His disciples concerning the fall of Jerusalem. May people attempt to apply this discussion with markers for the end of the world......but Jesus makes it clear that not even HE knew the day and hour of the final judgment of God, only Father knows this (Matt. 24:36). Mankind has been living in the "LAST DAYS"......i.e, the last covenant between God and Man since the 1st century A.D. (Acts 2)


Christianity (which inclusive of all men/women of all nations -- Matthew 28:18-20) is Spiritual Israel/Jerusalem (Eph. 2:19, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Hebrews 12:22).

 

[norwegen]

Good point.

Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

We don't know how many ethnic Israelites were in the Philadelphia church when Christ passed judgment on Judea, but probably very few. They, like their foreign counterparts, followed Christ, so Christ loved them, and he was about to show the dissenting Jews of the synagogue of Satan (not really Jews because they perverted Judaism) that they would suffer defeat at the hands of the Romans and hence bow down to the faithful.

 

[irosie91]

The Christian nations are the descendants of Israel.

NOPE !!! the christian nations are the ROMAN EMPIRE---first,
second, and third REICHS. The muslim nations are the CALIPHATES

We don't know how many ethnic Israelites were in the Philadelphia church when Christ passed judgment on Judea, but probably very few. They, like their foreign counterparts, followed Christ, so Christ loved them, and he was about to show the dissenting Jews of the synagogue of Satan (not really Jews because they perverted Judaism) that they would suffer defeat at the hands of the Romans and hence bow down to the faithful.

Your sophistry is DESPERATE

 

[Clyde 154]

What else can a non orthodox JEW do but laugh at a predicament of their own making? They practice no Burnt Offerings as commanded by God and the Levites.........they just continue to live and wallow in their sin, as they continue to be blind to the historical fact they killed the Only Begotten of the Father some 2000 years ago........a people's without hope.....they await a Messiah that was sacrificed for their sins over 2000 years ago.

 

[irosie91]

No it isn't. Social evolution is a fact.

That's a false accusation.

I believe the New Testament explanation as to whom ancient Israel has become. It is no longer a nation by blood but by faith.

The NT is a ROMAN EMPIRE machination with the correct emphasis being
on EMPIRE (aka Reich) its founder being its first Emperor---Constantine

 

[Clyde 154]

The NT is a ROMAN EMPIRE machination with the correct emphasis being
on EMPIRE (aka Reich) its founder being its first Emperor---Constantine

Rome was but the tool used by God to keep His promise to destroy a nation that continued in sin. Historical Fact: Christianity actually destroyed the Roman Empire not the inverse. Christianity consumed Rome when Rome made Christianity its national religion in 380 A.D. Strange is it not that Christians have a global home while Israel must pretend they have a home? Christianity is made up from over 1/3 the worlds total population.......what percent "claim" to be Jews but fail to honestly practice their supposed faith? 0.02% of the world population?

 

[irosie91]

Rome was but the tool used by God to keep His promise to destroy a nation that continued in sin. Historical Fact: Christianity actually destroyed the Roman Empire not the inverse. Christianity consumed Rome when Rome made Christianity its national religion in 380 A.D.

christianity destroyed a lot more than the EMPIRE of its founder and
promoter, Constantine. It created the first, second and third REICHS

 

[irosie91]

Rome was but the tool used by God to keep His promise to destroy a nation that continued in sin. Historical Fact: Christianity actually destroyed the Roman Empire not the inverse. Christianity consumed Rome when Rome made Christianity its national religion in 380 A.D. Strange is it not that Christians have a global home while Israel must pretend they have a home? Christianity is made up from over 1/3 the worlds total population.......what percent "claim" to be Jews but fail to honestly practice their supposed faith? 0.02% of the world population?

"...christians have a global home..." ---2000 years of massive wars, genocides
and continued criminality and destruction

 

[Woodznutz]

Christianity is a nation in all by itself, Spiritual Israel/Jerusalem, with both Jew and Gentile becoming ONE in Christ Jesus. (Gal.3:27-29). Judaism as condoned by the God of creation ended in 70 A.D. with the total destruction of Jerusalem and the scattering of the Jews around the globe, just as prophesied by Jesus Christ .....these things happened to the generation that was living during the ministry of Jesus Christ (Matthew 23:36, 24:34) God had promised that Biblical Israel would be destroyed and never made whole/complete again if it continued to ignore the righteous laws of God and He would allow a new covenant, unlike the covenant delivered by Moses on Mt. Sinai (Jer.31:31-34). God promised that He would allow the destruction of Israel if they continued to disobey (Lev. 26:27-39). They would be driven from the land of promise (Deut. 4:25-28). They would cease being a nation (Deut. 8:19-20). All these thing happened just as God declared....with Jesus warning His generation that these thing would happen during their very generation in the 1st century (Matt.23:36)

History Actual tells us that Biblical Israel was destroyed by the Roman Empire in the 1st century, with the Jews driven from the land of promise........never to be made whole again, like a potters jar that was broken it might be pieced back together but never made whole again (Jer. 19:7-13). The nation calling itself Israel today is but a poor copy, a reproduction created not by God but by man, (the United Nations). No tribal ID, No Royal Priesthood, No King appointed by God but a government created and ruled by men.........no temple, no land of promise.

The subject matter of Matt. 24:1-34 is the Christs' discussion with His disciples concerning the fall of Jerusalem. May people attempt to apply this discussion with markers for the end of the world......but Jesus makes it clear that not even HE knew the day and hour of the final judgment of God, only Father knows this (Matt. 24:36). Mankind has been living in the "LAST DAYS"......i.e, the last covenant between God and Man since the 1st century A.D. (Acts 2)


Christianity (which inclusive of all men/women of all nations -- Matthew 28:18-20) is Spiritual Israel/Jerusalem (Eph. 2:19, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Hebrews 12:22).

God the Father sent Jesus to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (as distinct from the 'house of Judah; the Jews), the so-called "lost tribes" of the northern kingdom. Jesus then sent the disciples to them as well. It is certain that this commission was completed and those Israelite peoples received the gospel message and become the foundation of the latter-day church.

 

[Woodznutz]

NOPE !!! the christian nations are the ROMAN EMPIRE---first,
second, and third REICHS. The muslim nations are the CALIPHATES

The church of "the Holy Roman Empire" (the RCC today) is not the church founded by Jesus Christ. The Roman 'church' persecuted the true church.

 

[Clyde 154]

God the Father sent Jesus to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (as distinct from the 'house of Judah; the Jews), the so-called "lost tribes" of the northern kingdom. Jesus then sent the disciples to them as well. It is certain that this commission was completed and those Israelite peoples received the gospel message and become the foundation of the latter-day church.

Reality: Indeed, the "Messiah" was promised to offer salvation to the Jew first, but also to the Greek/Gentile (Romans 1:16).......Christianity was primarily offered to the Jews for the first decade of the infant churches existence with a conformation from the Holy Spirit of God that salvation was to be preached to all nations on earth, just as the Christ declared (Matt.28:18-20)........it was not until 10 years after the Christ's ascension to the throne of David in Heaven as both Lord and Christ of the Kingdom His Father had given Him (Acts 2:26-38, Matt.16) before the Holy Spirit confirmed with the same signs and wonders that happened on the day of Pentecost to the Apostles of Christ after Christ's ascension that confirmed that Greeks/Gentiles were to be accepted into the kingdom/Church (Acts 10).

Today.........There is neither Jew nor Greek, all are one when baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:28-29) and joint heirs to the promise made to father Abraham.

There are no modern day Apostles......or POPES as some claim represents Apostleship. (the Supernatural gifts ended when the last Apostle took his last breath on earth -- 1 Cor. 13) all that remains is Faith, Hope and Charity. Today we are in possession of the Gift the Holy Spirit delivered to the kingdom (Acts 2:38, repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE "THE GIFT" OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, the gift could not be the Holy Spirit as He is the 3rd person of the Godhead as declared by Jesus, you must be baptized in the name of the Holy Spirit also (Mathew 28:19-20).........knowledge is that gift, as its recorded in the Holy Scriptures which is sufficient to make the man of God.........complete/whole. As Peter declared, through the knowledge of Jesus Christ mankind has all that this required for life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3) If that word lives and abides in you..........its the Holy Spirit that guides your life into all righteousness.

"God would have all men saved by coming to the knowledge of the Truth" -- 1 Tim. 2:4. A knowledge that was a mystery until the Holy Ghost revealed the truth to the Apostles of Christ in the 1st Century. (Col. 1:26-27)

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God (literally.........God Breathed the scriptures into existence as defined in the original Greek text)..........and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED INTO ALL GOOD WORKS." -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17

The "man of God" had the ability to be completely furnished....... PERFECT IN KNOWLEDGE centuries before the 1st Pope was voted into office by men.......and almost 2 Millennium before Joseph Smith "plagiarized" the King James Translation to create the Book of Mormon. Again........the scriptures are filled with passages that prove that ALL TRUTH was presented to mankind in the 1st century with the Holy Scriptures providing everything that is required to make the man of God perfect in knowledge. You cannot add unto All, EVERYTHING, COMPLETE, THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY (James 1:25).........or you are calling the Holy Spirit of Truth a liar and you are a reprobate toward the faith. How can the "perfect law of liberty" become more perfect..........its an oxymoronic conclusion. Much like the phrase, "In order to make a MORE PERFECT UNION..........

In fact Paul states that you are not to go/think beyond that which is "written" (1 Cor. 4:6)........He states that you are accursed if you add unto or take away from the gospel truth delivered by the Apostels and Saints that helped record the Bible not only for their generation but for generations to come (2 Peter 1:12-13)

Yet the false prophet Joesph Smith claimed that an Angel presented to him another gospel different than the N.T. doctrine....in spite of a clear warning from one of the last passages of the Holy Scriptures, "And if any man shall take away from the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall ADD ONTO these things, God shall add unto him all the plagues that are listed in this book." -- Rev. 22:19

"But though we or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel (good news/truth) unto you than that which we have preached unto you, LET HIM BE ACCUSED." -- Gal. 1:8-9

I would declare that with all the historical troubles that exist in the history of the Mormon Church........that might qualify as a curse. Plagiarism, Polygamy, Racism, murderous revenges...etc., Personally I find the entire cult of Latter Day Saints to be engaging in "Blasphemy" when they claim they have the power to BECOME GODS. Talk about Narcissism and Megalomania, The Scriptures are clear, The whole duty of mankind is to serve God, "Fear God and keep His Commandments........is the duty of all mankind." -- Eccl. 12:13

 

[onefour1]

In a nutshell, the Israelites are the posterity of Jacob, the son of Isaac who was the son of Abraham. Jacob's name was changed to Israel by the Lord. So, the children of Israel not only include the Jews who are the children of Judah, but also the children of the other 11 sons of Jacob or Israel.

 

[Clyde 154]

In a nutshell, the Israelites are the posterity of Jacob, the son of Isaac who was the son of Abraham. Jacob's name was changed to Israel by the Lord. So, the children of Israel not only include the Jews who are the children of Judah, but also the children of the other 11 sons of Jacob or Israel.

And..........this dismisses the N.T. truth? "There is neither Jew nor Greek........all are one in Jesus Christ......all are joint heirs to the promise of Abraham" -- Gal. 3:28-29

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is that circumcision which is one outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly........and circumcision is that of the heart."

New Jerusalem/Spiritual Israel is the Christian Nation which includes all nations that accept Christ, even the Jews who accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Prophecy, if they do not accept this truth they are propagating an Antichrist doctrine and are enemies of the faith as declared by both Paul and John.


Paul states, "As concerning the gospel (N.T.) they are enemies for your sake; but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers (ancestors)." -- Romans 11:28 Paul goes on to declare that because of their ancestry they are offered salvation first........with Paul mentioning a number (symbolic in nature, regarding prophecy).......there were 7000 Jews, a remnant of those loyal to the Messiah that would be spared, that Christ and the Cross continues to be a stumbling block to those who are blinded from the truth.......but it would be far easier for those who are natural branches to be grafted back in to the elect status (Christianity inferred).......but as long as "......eyes are darkened, that their eyes may not see, and bow down their back (stubborn)." They are blind. It was necessary that those who are blinded might fall in order to allow the gentile nations into the kingdom, they have fallen to make them jealous of the Christians that they may one day see their errors......but untill they do, they remain lost. Paul wishes to save SOME OF THEM THROUGH JEALOUSLY (Roman 11:1-23)

Paul concludes that they will always be welcome to be grafted back in to the natural branch (the elect of God), under these conditions, "And they (the blinded Jews) also, IF THEY ABIDE NOT STILL IN UNBELIEF; shall be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again." -- Roman 11:23

When the fullness of the Gentiles is complete, it is hoped their eyes will be reopened.......but until that time, they are enemies of the faith and Anti-Christian in doctrine (1 John 2:22)

 

[Woodznutz]

Reality: Indeed, the "Messiah" was promised to offer salvation to the Jew first, but also to the Greek/Gentile (Romans 1:16).......Christianity was primarily offered to the Jews for the first decade of the infant churches existence with a conformation from the Holy Spirit of God that salvation was to be preached to all nations on earth, just as the Christ declared (Matt.28:18-20)........it was not until 10 years after the Christ's ascension to the throne of David in Heaven as both Lord and Christ of the Kingdom His Father had given Him (Acts 2:26-38, Matt.16) before the Holy Spirit confirmed with the same signs and wonders that happened on the day of Pentecost to the Apostles of Christ after Christ's ascension that confirmed that Greeks/Gentiles were to be accepted into the kingdom/Church (Acts 10).

Today.........There is neither Jew nor Greek, all are one when baptized into Christ (Gal. 3:28-29) and joint heirs to the promise made to father Abraham.

There are no modern day Apostles......or POPES as some claim represents Apostleship. (the Supernatural gifts ended when the last Apostle took his last breath on earth -- 1 Cor. 13) all that remains is Faith, Hope and Charity. Today we are in possession of the Gift the Holy Spirit delivered to the kingdom (Acts 2:38, repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE "THE GIFT" OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, the gift could not be the Holy Spirit as He is the 3rd person of the Godhead as declared by Jesus, you must be baptized in the name of the Holy Spirit also (Mathew 28:19-20).........knowledge is that gift, as its recorded in the Holy Scriptures which is sufficient to make the man of God.........complete/whole. As Peter declared, through the knowledge of Jesus Christ mankind has all that this required for life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3) If that word lives and abides in you..........its the Holy Spirit that guides your life into all righteousness.

"God would have all men saved by coming to the knowledge of the Truth" -- 1 Tim. 2:4. A knowledge that was a mystery until the Holy Ghost revealed the truth to the Apostles of Christ in the 1st Century. (Col. 1:26-27)

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God (literally.........God Breathed the scriptures into existence as defined in the original Greek text)..........and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, THOROUGHLY FURNISHED INTO ALL GOOD WORKS." -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17

The "man of God" had the ability to be completely furnished....... PERFECT IN KNOWLEDGE centuries before the 1st Pope was voted into office by men.......and almost 2 Millennium before Joseph Smith "plagiarized" the King James Translation to create the Book of Mormon. Again........the scriptures are filled with passages that prove that ALL TRUTH was presented to mankind in the 1st century with the Holy Scriptures providing everything that is required to make the man of God perfect in knowledge. You cannot add unto All, EVERYTHING, COMPLETE, THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY (James 1:25).........or you are calling the Holy Spirit of Truth a liar and you are a reprobate toward the faith. How can the "perfect law of liberty" become more perfect..........its an oxymoronic conclusion. Much like the phrase, "In order to make a MORE PERFECT UNION..........

In fact Paul states that you are not to go/think beyond that which is "written" (1 Cor. 4:6)........He states that you are accursed if you add unto or take away from the gospel truth delivered by the Apostels and Saints that helped record the Bible not only for their generation but for generations to come (2 Peter 1:12-13)

Yet the false prophet Joesph Smith claimed that an Angel presented to him another gospel different than the N.T. doctrine....in spite of a clear warning from one of the last passages of the Holy Scriptures, "And if any man shall take away from the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall ADD ONTO these things, God shall add unto him all the plagues that are listed in this book." -- Rev. 22:19

"But though we or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel (good news/truth) unto you than that which we have preached unto you, LET HIM BE ACCUSED." -- Gal. 1:8-9

I would declare that with all the historical troubles that exist in the history of the Mormon Church........that might qualify as a curse. Plagiarism, Polygamy, Racism, murderous revenges...etc., Personally I find the entire cult of Latter Day Saints to be engaging in "Blasphemy" when they claim they have the power to BECOME GODS. Talk about Narcissism and Megalomania, The Scriptures are clear, The whole duty of mankind is to serve God, "Fear God and keep His Commandments........is the duty of all mankind." -- Eccl. 12:13

Is the 'person' of the Holy Spirit male or female?

Are all who are not Jews Greek?

Are all who are not Jews Gentiles?

When did Jesus stop preaching to the Jews?