Zone1 The original lie in the Garden of Eden

Not even close. After Adam ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil he acquired morals to control his free will. It was Gods will that he eat the fruit. God was teaching Adam and then a free Adam experienced the trial for mans freedom. God then said "let us make the man" use of the royal we indicates a major announcement. Adam wasnt expelled he out grew the garden a metaphor for childhood.
You cant sin if you obey Gods plan to eat the fruit
You cant sin if you cant know what sin is. Before the fruit Adam had no idea what a sin was.

The Jews wrote this beautiful insightful allegory and the Christians turned into something ugly.
God knew Adam would eat the fruit and sent the devil to entice Eve if anyone sees through the ruse. It was the devil who set Adam and Eve free from being illiterate puppets of God. But that is not what Sunday school teaches anyone.
 
God knew Adam would eat the fruit and sent the devil to entice Eve if anyone sees through the ruse. It was the devil who set Adam and Eve free from being illiterate puppets of God. But that is not what Sunday school teaches anyone.
The serpent is not the devil its an animal from Hebrew folklore that has the power of speech and is a metaphor for guile. There is no devil in Judaism. This is an allegory.
 
Not even close. After Adam ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil he acquired morals to control his free will. It was Gods will that he eat the fruit. God was teaching Adam and then a free Adam experienced the trial for mans freedom. God then said "let us make the man" use of the royal we indicates a major announcement. Adam wasnt expelled he out grew the garden a metaphor for childhood.
You cant sin if you obey Gods plan to eat the fruit
You cant sin if you cant know what sin is. Before the fruit Adam had no idea what a sin was.

The Jews wrote this beautiful insightful allegory and the Christians turned into something ugly.
Not even close. You make up your own narrative, too, just like so many others here.

God expelled Adam. He "drove" him out, the text says. The text also says He did not want him to eat from that tree.

And God created a man, not a child. A man who married and had children.

Obviously, you don't believe what the Bible says.
 
You make up your own narrative, too, just like so many others here.

God expelled Adam. He "drove" him out, the text says. The text also says He did not want him to eat from that tree.

And God created a man, not a child. A man who married and had children.

Obviously, you don't believe what the Bible says.
I can read Hebrew and have very accurate understanding in addition the Orthodox Jews who study it have the same understanding.
Its an allegory. God told Adam not to eat the fruit as a test of his free will. Disobedience is the ultimate test of free will.
In the beginning God said "I will make man" in my likeness. This means potentially divine that means Adam can grow and improve. Thats called evolution. After Adam ate the fruit God said "Let is make the man" this is an evolved Adam and use of the royal we indicates a major success or achievement has occurred. Adam has evolved to a higher level. Thats not the fall of man.
He leaves Eden a metaphor for childhood and goes out to the world
 
I can read Hebrew and have very accurate understanding in addition the Orthodox Jews who study it have the same understanding.
Its an allegory. God told Adam not to eat the fruit as a test of his free will. Disobedience is the ultimate test of free will.
In the beginning God said "I will make man" in my likeness. This means potentially divine that means Adam can grow and improve. Thats called evolution. After Adam ate the fruit God said "Let is make the man" this is an evolved Adam and use of the royal we indicates a major success or achievement has occurred. Adam has evolved to a higher level. Thats not the fall of man.
He leaves Eden a metaphor for childhood and goes out to the world
Not so. He made Adam before Adam ate of that tree.
 
Not so. He made Adam before Adam ate of that tree.
Correct a primitive Adam with free will and no morals. I will make man
Then Adam eats the fruit and has morals then he chooses to come to God on his own Let us make the man
Adam has evolved to a higher level of exitance.

Thats not the fall or original sin in any way. Thats an accomplishment and is called the trial for mans freedom
 
Correct a primitive Adam with free will and no morals. I will make man
Then Adam eats the fruit and has morals then he chooses to come to God on his own Let us make the man
Adam has evolved to a higher level of exitance.

Thats not the fall or original sin in any way. Thats an accomplishment and is called the trial for mans freedom
You're completely off the rails. Good-bye.
 
You're completely off the rails. Good-bye.
Stick to youre own testament. Do you understand what the light is that God created before he created the sun
 
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God knew Adam would eat the fruit and sent the devil to entice Eve if anyone sees through the ruse. It was the devil who set Adam and Eve free from being illiterate puppets of God. But that is not what Sunday school teaches anyone.
That’s pretty dumb but that’s exactly the kind of dumb thing I would expect from someone who had an ax to grind with Judaism and Christianity.

You’ll be a lot happier when you stop blaming religion for your troubles and come to grip with reality.
 
I don’t believe you understand the creation account.
I can read it in Hebrew its a beautiful allegory distorted by Christianity to create a religion preoccupied with sin that can control people
 
That’s pretty dumb but that’s exactly the kind of dumb thing I would expect from someone who had an ax to grind with Judaism and Christianity.

You’ll be a lot happier when you stop blaming religion for your troubles and come to grip with reality.
Yet.............no argument
 
That’s pretty dumb but that’s exactly the kind of dumb thing I would expect from someone who had an ax to grind with Judaism and Christianity.

You’ll be a lot happier when you stop blaming religion for your troubles and come to grip with reality.
LMAO. Far from that. I have no "troubles". It's the Christians who do and think Jesus their imaginary friend will help them from their troubles.
 
15th post
Whatever happened to the talking snakes?

Did they go extinct?
 


The original lie is that God wanted to keep Adam and Eve "down" by stopping them from eating of the fruit of knowledge.

Interesting perspective and something I can't really argue against.

A lot depends upon how much truth and accuracy one wishes to grant the Old Testament (OT). Whether to take the word, the text literally or consider that such as Genesis is a rehash of the earlier Creation accounts from the Sumerians, which the Hebrews learned during their time of captivity in Babylon. Also apply that there have been a couple of translations and interpretations over the years, from the original (Ancient/Old)Hebrew, to Greek, to Latin, then into English. Subtle changes in text and/or context can blur what might have been the original intention of the record.

For the moment, let's examine a text or two from Genesis. Seems few have bothered to actually provide such sources/reference.
....
"Then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breathe of life."(Genesis 2:7)

A short bit later we get this;
"The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it." (Genesis 2:15)

So it would seem that "God" created man for a purpose and that was mostly limited to be a worker, a gardener.

If we go to the earlier Sumerian texts from which the OT was derived, and given a Hebrew twist in their translation and plagiarizing, we would want to consider this from the cuneiform ;

"When the gods like men,
bore the work and suffered the toil ---
the toil of the gods was great,
the work was heavy,
the distress was much. "

In this case the gods are the Anunnaki - Those Who from Heaven to Earth came; which is how the term translates from the Sumerian into present English.

To avoid the riot and rebellion that was brewing, a solution was reached to adjust the evolution and abilities of an indigenous hominid species, part of the process including infusion of Anunnaki DNA into Homo Erectus' DNA and with some trial and error along the way, a worker species, Man, was created to take on the work and toil of the gods and ease their burden.

Humans were created to be a worker species, to literally serve the gods.

A leader god/Anunnaki known as Enki was a key principle in the process of mutating Homo Erectus into Homo Sapiens. In Sumerian records he is often symbolized by the serpent, snake. The medical emblem, caduceus*, -two snakes winding around an often winged staff- has been claimed symbolic of Enki in the early Sumerian records. Reportedly his brother Enlil, with whom he shared rule over Earth, would have later regrets about creating humans with an intelligence potential equal to the gods, and was concerned that Enki might also give the humans longevity ("immortality") similar to that which the gods/Anunnaki had.

That and other frictions between the two brothers and their factions, resulted in open conflict, at times wars, and as events moved into the present times, Enki, the Serpent, would be portrayed as the "evil opponent" of the gods(God, JHWH) who had created the contender humans who threatened to supplant the gods/Anunnaki.

What we get in the Old Testament is a mangled and garbled version of the earlier creation accounts and religious "mythology" of the Sumerians~Babylonians~Akkadians, as presented to the Hebrews by Enlil, and company, in their efforts to keep the worker (slave) humans in their place - obedient and subservient to the master Lord Gawd/JHWH.

BTW, the Anunnaki never left this Solar System. They've just shielded their existence and created layers of human wardens to manage things down here on "the Farm".

* - Caduceus as a symbol of medicine - Wikipedia
 

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