Zone1 Did Satan tell Eve the truth: "You shall NOT surely die?"

Is it true that we humans do not really fully "die?"

  • No, we fully die, just like an animal according to King Solomon.

    Votes: 1 12.5%
  • Yes, there is a human spirit or soul that DOES NOT DIE!

    Votes: 3 37.5%
  • Other answer, please be specific in a reply.

    Votes: 1 12.5%
  • Both "soul" and "body" can be destroyed in Gehenna Fire at the time of the Second Death.

    Votes: 3 37.5%

  • Total voters
    8
eh, you display slightly too much unfounded calculations here, and delve too deep into the Bible for me to even understand the timescale of predictions you indicate, sorry.
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I don't blame you at all,
I began to ask these questions back during the 1970's when I was a teenager listening to Messianic Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong and his dad Pastor General Herbert W. Armstrong.
 
For years now I have been confronted with evidence that Satan essentially told Eve the truth when he stated:


Was Satan aware of higher level truths than Eve and her husband Adam?

I certainly do think so!

So in a way could it be that Satan's problem was his MOTIVE OR INTENTIONS rather than his exact advice to Eve and Adam?

Here is one of the most extreme examples that I know of that shows how Satan tends to use "True Lies" as opposed to absolute lies?


www.JohnJDavisnde.com/




A related question is whether or not former Covering Cherub Helel may have been with the Ancient of Days the Heavenly Father, and with The Holy Spirit and with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus as the "Word or Logos" for perhaps BILLIONS of years before Satan began to fall about seventy million years ago......
and had fully fallen by about sixty five million years ago to such an extent that Satan then had to be kicked out of heaven?
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Sin brought spiritual death to Adam and every other human after him which is why Jesus died on the cross to offer sinners new life.
 
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Was Satan aware of higher level truths than Eve and her husband Adam?

I certainly do think so!

So in a way could it be that Satan's problem was his MOTIVE OR INTENTIONS rather than his exact advice to Eve and Adam?

Here is one of the most extreme examples that I know of that shows how Satan tends to use "True Lies" as opposed to absolute lies?


www.JohnJDavisnde.com/




A related question is whether or not former Covering Cherub Helel may have been with the Ancient of Days the Heavenly Father, and with The Holy Spirit and with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus as the "Word or Logos" for perhaps BILLIONS of years before Satan began to fall about seventy million years ago......
and had fully fallen by about sixty five million years ago to such an extent that Satan then had to be kicked out of heaven?
Sin brought spiritual death to Adam and every other human after him which is why Jesus died on the cross to offer sinners new life.
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One of the probable errors made by Satan would be to attempt to force a ten thousand year plan to judge Azazel and the Watchers and their children and grandchildren into a much shorter time period?
 
Not really. In the 500 years or so before the Christian era there were several changes and mutations, civil wars, followed by a Greek 'renaissance' type social revolution and finally a Roman occupation. Pharisaic 'Judaism' didn't win out over several other factions until the failed Revolt around 65-70 A.D., and after the Bar Kokhba Revolt and the attempts to murder all the Samaritans, 'Galileans' AKA Christians, and Romans, they finally invented 'Rabbinical Judaism' and formalized the 'Oral Torah' as their gimmick. That's the short answer, without writing an entire book on some 600 years of Jewish and ME history. Jews remained a distinct culture, even if most were non-religious.
Judaism, the 'oral Torah' existed in Jesus' day. It was called "the Tradition of the Elders". Jesus condemned the Pharisees use of it.
 
Am I an idiot to feel that a tiny percentage of Jews felt such extreme animosity toward Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus that they essentially decided that the enemy of my enemy.... must be my friend? Eight thousand five hundred wealtiest of the wealthy is only about one person in a million, [a tiny fraction of all humanity].

I don't bother with a lot of the details, but mainly with the historical record. Jews were as much as 10% of the entire Roman empire, so it's clear it was the Babylonian cult itself that alienated and essentially ran off the vast majority of Jews over the centuries.

They were extremely reclusive and self-segregating, and eventually all that were left were the tradesmen and urban elites left, all the 'unwashed and inferior Jews having no stake in the game, as it were, the shepherds, farmers, teamsters, and other 'unclean' trades eventually assimilated elsewhere, into to what became the dominant Jewish sect, Christianity, where they were welcome and not regarded as inferior.

It was the wealthier urban Jews who demanded their own 'ghettos', they didn't want to be 'tainted' by the filthy sib-human gentiles. Nowadays the term 'ghetto' has a negative meaning, and it gets spun as those evul xians forcing the poor hapless Jews to live in slums n stuff because they were so mean and bigoted. It's a result of their own bigotry.

Many 'outsiders' had their own 'ghettos' in foreign towns, from the Hansa and Lombards to the Swedish metal traders in London and all the other major trading cities. these latter became crowded over the centuries, and after the Arab conquests, many of them supported by Jewish soldiers and Jewish collaborators in the Spanish cities, most kingdoms and principalities rightly distrusted them and decided it was best to keep them all in one place. Bit only Jews matter to Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox cultists, so naturally they ignored everybody else's history and only care about their own.

Do you have a copy of Joachim Jeremia's excellent economic and social study []bJerusalem In The Time Of Jesus[/b]? If not you should get one.

It makes a lot of what is going on in Jewish culture at the time, the different social classes, 'despised trades', categories of slaves, etc. and a wide assortment of fact about Jewish culture and the divisions therein.


Scan the table of contents and see if any of it interests you. Part IV goes into detail on the 'Racial Purity' laws imposed by the Babylonians when Cyrus set them up as th rulers of the region. They excluded most other Jews from any role other than giving the Babylonians money and food. These 'rules' were a result of Ezra's changing the genealogies to trace Jewishness' through the mother, as many of the Jews that weren't exiled had married non-Jewish women, and these 'rules' effectively excluded them from govt,. and Temple offices to could only go to Babylonians. Needless to say there were probably a lot of forged fakes for those who could afford one.
 
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Judaism, the 'oral Torah' existed in Jesus' day. It was called "the Tradition of the Elders". Jesus condemned the Pharisees use of it.

No, it didn't; pieces that were added to the Talmud later were around. The 'Oral Torah' was just that, transmitted orally, and only to 'real Jews', as determined by the ruling classes, i.e. Babylonians and Pharisees. the Babylonian Talmud wasn't completed until 500 A.D., and was started in the 2nd century A.D. Parts of the Mishnah and Gamarra were around. According to Moses, the Torah was complete as is, and there was no more. There was no 'secret Torah' Moses only handed to Babylonian Jews and nobody else. It's a ridiculous fable.
 
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