The "good thief" was actually a revolutionary and the only person in the Bible we know for sure...

[Blackrook]

...went to heaven.

The Catholic Church tells us all the Apostles but Judas went to heaven, but looking only at the Bible, the only person we know for sure went to heaven was the "good thief."

But he wasn't a thief, he was a revolutionary, crucified by the Romans for violently resisting the occupation of Israel.

And he did not go to heaven for a life of good deeds. On the contrary, he was a soldier in a war that could never be won, and in that war, he might have committed terrible atrocities to further his cause.

In the modern era, he might even have qualified as a terrorist, for certainly he was a terrorist in the eyes of the Roman occupation army.

And he did not ask to go to heaven. All he asked of Jesus was that he remember him, when he "entered into his Kingdom."

But in that one profession of faith, all of this man's sins were wiped out, and not only did he go to heaven, he went immediately to heaven, not even spending time in purgatory, where the Catholic Church tells us sinners go to be purified of their sins.

The story tells us a few simple truths.

That faith is so important to God, that even one profession of faith will wipe out a lifetime of sin.

That there is no such thing as a sinner who cannot be redeemed.

That God does not keep a balance sheet of sins and good deeds, the slate can be wiped clean in the moment before death simply by acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

 

[Penelope]

As you know Pope Francis said even atheist can go to heaven. If you are a RC good works get you to heaven , we are not protestants who only believe in faith, who can sin up to their deathbed and say with their dying breath I believe and get to heaven.

 

[Blackrook]

The Bible is quite clear that faith is what's required to be saved. James says, we also need good works, because faith without good works is dead. But there is no part of the Bible, not anywhere, that says good works alone will save you, if you don't have faith.

 

[Penelope]

The Bible is quite clear that faith is what's required to be saved. James says, we also need good works, because faith without good works is dead. But there is no part of the Bible, not anywhere, that says good works alone will save you, if you don't have faith.

Yes that is what Protestants do, ignore Jesus and go with Paul and James.

 

[Blackrook]

The Bible is quite clear that faith is what's required to be saved. James says, we also need good works, because faith without good works is dead. But there is no part of the Bible, not anywhere, that says good works alone will save you, if you don't have faith.

Yes that is what Protestants do, ignore Jesus and go with Paul and James.

The ENTIRE Bible is divinely inspired, so there is no contradiction between the Gospels and the letters of the Apostles. ALL OF IT is equally true, and equally binding on Catholics AND Protestants.

 

[Blackrook]

Also, the Pope saying that atheists can go to heaven doesn't make it true.

Only when the Pope is speaking ex cathedra, i.e. in an encyclical, is he infallible.

A Pope's casual remarks to the reporter of a secular publication are not infallible.

 

[Penelope]

There is contradiction all over the bible. All over, read it again. Study it.

 

[Penelope]

Also, the Pope saying that atheists can go to heaven doesn't make it true.

Only when the Pope is speaking ex cathedra, i.e. in an encyclical, is he infallible.

A Pope's casual remarks to the reporter of a secular publication are not infallible.

How do you know what the Pope knows. No man is infallible, not even the Pope, but when he speaks (ie letter) encyclical its a doctrine of the church.

 

[Blackrook]

Also, the Pope saying that atheists can go to heaven doesn't make it true.

Only when the Pope is speaking ex cathedra, i.e. in an encyclical, is he infallible.

A Pope's casual remarks to the reporter of a secular publication are not infallible.

How do you know what the Pope knows. No man is infallible, not even the Pope, but when he speaks (ie letter) encyclical its a doctrine of the church.

When the Pope says something to a reporter, that doesn't make it a doctrine of the Church.

So the "atheists can go to heaven" is a non-starter, especially when the statement flies in the face of Scripture and 2000 years of tradition.

 

[Penelope]

Also, the Pope saying that atheists can go to heaven doesn't make it true.

Only when the Pope is speaking ex cathedra, i.e. in an encyclical, is he infallible.

A Pope's casual remarks to the reporter of a secular publication are not infallible.

How do you know what the Pope knows. No man is infallible, not even the Pope, but when he speaks (ie letter) encyclical its a doctrine of the church.

When the Pope says something to a reporter, that doesn't make it a doctrine of the Church.

So the "atheists can go to heaven" is a non-starter, especially when the statement flies in the face of Scripture and 2000 years of tradition.

I think when the Pope says whatever or writes whatever its all the same, one is a doctrine of the church, the rest is about what his faith is. The Pope knows what we do not.

 

[Blackrook]

Also, the Pope saying that atheists can go to heaven doesn't make it true.

Only when the Pope is speaking ex cathedra, i.e. in an encyclical, is he infallible.

A Pope's casual remarks to the reporter of a secular publication are not infallible.

How do you know what the Pope knows. No man is infallible, not even the Pope, but when he speaks (ie letter) encyclical its a doctrine of the church.

When the Pope says something to a reporter, that doesn't make it a doctrine of the Church.

So the "atheists can go to heaven" is a non-starter, especially when the statement flies in the face of Scripture and 2000 years of tradition.

I think when the Pope says whatever or writes whatever its all the same, one is a doctrine of the church, the rest is about what his faith is. The Pope knows what we do not.

I do not see this Pope as competent in doing his job. He is creating much chaos with his off-handed way of throwing doubt on Catholic doctrine during casual conversations with reporters from secular newspapers.

 

[HaShev]

...went to heaven.

The Catholic Church tells us all the Apostles but Judas went to heaven, but looking only at the Bible, the only person we know for sure went to heaven was the "good thief."

But he wasn't a thief, he was a revolutionary, crucified by the Romans for violently resisting the occupation of Israel.

And he did not go to heaven for a life of good deeds. On the contrary, he was a soldier in a war that could never be won, and in that war, he might have committed terrible atrocities to further his cause.

In the modern era, he might even have qualified as a terrorist, for certainly he was a terrorist in the eyes of the Roman occupation army.

And he did not ask to go to heaven. All he asked of Jesus was that he remember him, when he "entered into his Kingdom."

But in that one profession of faith, all of this man's sins were wiped out, and not only did he go to heaven, he went immediately to heaven, not even spending time in purgatory, where the Catholic Church tells us sinners go to be purified of their sins.

The story tells us a few simple truths.

That faith is so important to God, that even one profession of faith will wipe out a lifetime of sin.

That there is no such thing as a sinner who cannot be redeemed.

That God does not keep a balance sheet of sins and good deeds, the slate can be wiped clean in the moment before death simply by acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

How do you discuss a topic without leaving sources to who you are referring to?
There's 2 thieves in the NT, Jesus Bar-abbas and Jesus who was a *thief of the NIGHT because he is being claimed
"the day" (Morning Star=Lucifer-Rev 22;16).

*-1 Thessalonians 5:2, Matthew 24:43,

 

[irosie91]

The Bible is quite clear that faith is what's required to be saved. James says, we also need good works, because faith without good works is dead. But there is no part of the Bible, not anywhere, that says good works alone will save you, if you don't have faith.

Yes that is what Protestants do, ignore Jesus and go with Paul and James.[/QUOTE

Penelope ----your utterly idiotic misrepresentation of both protestant and catholic
dogma is getting on people's nerves. Your writings suggest psychosis

 

[The Professor]

...went to heaven.

The Catholic Church tells us all the Apostles but Judas went to heaven, but looking only at the Bible, the only person we know for sure went to heaven was the "good thief."

But he wasn't a thief, he was a revolutionary, crucified by the Romans for violently resisting the occupation of Israel.

And he did not go to heaven for a life of good deeds. On the contrary, he was a soldier in a war that could never be won, and in that war, he might have committed terrible atrocities to further his cause.

In the modern era, he might even have qualified as a terrorist, for certainly he was a terrorist in the eyes of the Roman occupation army.

And he did not ask to go to heaven. All he asked of Jesus was that he remember him, when he "entered into his Kingdom."

But in that one profession of faith, all of this man's sins were wiped out, and not only did he go to heaven, he went immediately to heaven, not even spending time in purgatory, where the Catholic Church tells us sinners go to be purified of their sins.

The story tells us a few simple truths.

That faith is so important to God, that even one profession of faith will wipe out a lifetime of sin.

That there is no such thing as a sinner who cannot be redeemed.

That God does not keep a balance sheet of sins and good deeds, the slate can be wiped clean in the moment before death simply by acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

You boldly claim that “The 'good thief' was actually a revolutionary and the only person in the Bible we know for sure went to Heaven. Anyone who has read the Bible all the way though just once knows you are wrong. The Bible tells of others who went to heaven. Apparently you never heard of Enoch and Elijah.

“And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him”” (Geneis 5:23, 24, KJV).

“And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.” (2 Kings 2:11, KJV).

I have been studying the Bible for about 65 years and I know it fairly well. I am going to give you a link to the best Bible study tool available. The site has dozens of different versions in multiple languages. The best thing is that it has easy to use word-search and verse-search which enables you to quickly compare one version to another. Here's the link

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.

 

[Blackrook]

I would suggest that Martin Luther was wrong in the way he took his ideas to the extreme, but he wasn't wrong about the basic teaching he was trying to convey.

And I would have to agree, that my review of the Bible indicates that Jesus cared a lot more about faith than he did about good works.

However, the Parable of the Rich Man indicates that a man who does not act while others suffer will be denied the Kingdom of God.

Also, James says quite clearly that faith without good works is dead, for even the demons have faith.

 

[Penelope]

The Bible is quite clear that faith is what's required to be saved. James says, we also need good works, because faith without good works is dead. But there is no part of the Bible, not anywhere, that says good works alone will save you, if you don't have faith.

Yes that is what Protestants do, ignore Jesus and go with Paul and James.[/QUOTE

Penelope ----your utterly idiotic misrepresentation of both protestant and catholic
dogma is getting on people's nerves. Your writings suggest psychosis

There is a difference between the protesters aka protestants and RC. One is dependent on faith and one can live the life of sin , the other good works in thoughts and deeds.

 

[HaShev]

The Bible is quite clear that faith is what's required to be saved. James says, we also need good works, because faith without good works is dead. But there is no part of the Bible, not anywhere, that says good works alone will save you, if you don't have faith.

Have you built the Mikdash in the city in his name?
Then how can you say you have faith?

YeruShalem would carry the name. (1 Kings 11:36 &
in dead sea scrolls: Words of the Archangel Michael scroll 4Q529, 6Q23)
The Gemarah (Baba Batra 75) Tells us Jerusalem is named after G0D and is the place commemorating his name and essence. In Sefer D’varim (12:5, 11, 14, 18, 21; 14:23,24, 25; 15:20; 16:2, 6, 7, 11, 15, 16; 17:8, 10; 18:6; 26:2; 31:11).the place that I will choose to place My Name. That is referring to YeruShalem because Sifri identifies the place which Hashem will choose (12:18) as “Yerushalayim”.
Why is this in the Archangel Michael scroll? Because Shalem
Shalim - Wikipedia
is the Evening Star=
Rising Archangel- Dan 12:1-4
Which is why it says the Temple(MIKdash)
is in his name.
-Melakim {I Kings8:43}(2Chronicles6)
Ma'aser Sheni in the Torah says
About tithing the produced food and eating it at the Temple:
“at the site that He shall choose to place His Name”

("The Name"[HaShem]of God will be in his name-EXODUS 23:20-21 & Hebrew Version of Micah 4:5)

 

[Penelope]

I would suggest that Martin Luther was wrong in the way he took his ideas to the extreme, but he wasn't wrong about the basic teaching he was trying to convey.

And I would have to agree, that my review of the Bible indicates that Jesus cared a lot more about faith than he did about good works.

However, the Parable of the Rich Man indicates that a man who does not act while others suffer will be denied the Kingdom of God.

Also, James says quite clearly that faith without good works is dead, for even the demons have faith.

Really, you know what he told the rich man, who kept all the commandments, and then Jesus says to him sell all you own and give to the poor and follow me.

 

[Blackrook]

...went to heaven.

The Catholic Church tells us all the Apostles but Judas went to heaven, but looking only at the Bible, the only person we know for sure went to heaven was the "good thief."

But he wasn't a thief, he was a revolutionary, crucified by the Romans for violently resisting the occupation of Israel.

And he did not go to heaven for a life of good deeds. On the contrary, he was a soldier in a war that could never be won, and in that war, he might have committed terrible atrocities to further his cause.

In the modern era, he might even have qualified as a terrorist, for certainly he was a terrorist in the eyes of the Roman occupation army.

And he did not ask to go to heaven. All he asked of Jesus was that he remember him, when he "entered into his Kingdom."

But in that one profession of faith, all of this man's sins were wiped out, and not only did he go to heaven, he went immediately to heaven, not even spending time in purgatory, where the Catholic Church tells us sinners go to be purified of their sins.

The story tells us a few simple truths.

That faith is so important to God, that even one profession of faith will wipe out a lifetime of sin.

That there is no such thing as a sinner who cannot be redeemed.

That God does not keep a balance sheet of sins and good deeds, the slate can be wiped clean in the moment before death simply by acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

You boldly claim that “The 'good thief' was actually a revolutionary and the only person in the Bible we know for sure went to Heaven. Anyone who has read the Bible all the way though just once knows you are wrong. The Bible tells of others who went to heaven. Apparently you never heard of Enoch and Elijah.

“And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him”” (Geneis 5:23, 24, KJV).

“And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.” (2 Kings 2:11, KJV).

I have been studying the Bible for about 65 years and I know it fairly well. I am going to give you a link to the best Bible study tool available. The site has dozens of different versions in multiple languages. The best thing is that it has easy to use word-search and verse-search which enables you to quickly compare one version to another. Here's the link

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.

You're right, I stand corrected.

Perhaps I should have said the "good thief" was the only New Testament character who we know for sure went to heaven.

Jesus met with Elijah and Moses, so we know they went to heaven as well.

Also, Jesus mentions the fact that Abraham is in heaven in a parable.

 

[JoeMoma]

Also, the Pope saying that atheists can go to heaven doesn't make it true.

Only when the Pope is speaking ex cathedra, i.e. in an encyclical, is he infallible.

A Pope's casual remarks to the reporter of a secular publication are not infallible.

How do you know what the Pope knows. No man is infallible, not even the Pope, but when he speaks (ie letter) encyclical its a doctrine of the church.

When the Pope says something to a reporter, that doesn't make it a doctrine of the Church.

So the "atheists can go to heaven" is a non-starter, especially when the statement flies in the face of Scripture and 2000 years of tradition.

Perhaps the Pope intended that a person who lived his life as an atheist can go to heaven if he converts to the faith before he dies.