The "good thief" was actually a revolutionary and the only person in the Bible we know for sure...

[Blackrook]

I would suggest that Martin Luther was wrong in the way he took his ideas to the extreme, but he wasn't wrong about the basic teaching he was trying to convey.

And I would have to agree, that my review of the Bible indicates that Jesus cared a lot more about faith than he did about good works.

However, the Parable of the Rich Man indicates that a man who does not act while others suffer will be denied the Kingdom of God.

Also, James says quite clearly that faith without good works is dead, for even the demons have faith.

Really, you know what he told the rich man, who kept all the commandments, and then Jesus says to him sell all you own and give to the poor and follow me.

I asked a priest if we had to do that, and he said "no" that command was just to that particular man, not to all of us.

 

[Blackrook]

The Bible is quite clear that faith is what's required to be saved. James says, we also need good works, because faith without good works is dead. But there is no part of the Bible, not anywhere, that says good works alone will save you, if you don't have faith.

Yes that is what Protestants do, ignore Jesus and go with Paul and James.[/QUOTE

Penelope ----your utterly idiotic misrepresentation of both protestant and catholic
dogma is getting on people's nerves. Your writings suggest psychosis

There is a difference between the protesters aka protestants and RC. One is dependent on faith and one can live the life of sin , the other good works in thoughts and deeds.

No.

 

[Blackrook]

The thing is about faith, is if you have it, you're not going to sit on your ass and wonder if you have to do good works too. You'll just do good works, and no one is going to have to ask you to.

 

[xband]

...went to heaven.

The Catholic Church tells us all the Apostles but Judas went to heaven, but looking only at the Bible, the only person we know for sure went to heaven was the "good thief."

But he wasn't a thief, he was a revolutionary, crucified by the Romans for violently resisting the occupation of Israel.

And he did not go to heaven for a life of good deeds. On the contrary, he was a soldier in a war that could never be won, and in that war, he might have committed terrible atrocities to further his cause.

In the modern era, he might even have qualified as a terrorist, for certainly he was a terrorist in the eyes of the Roman occupation army.

And he did not ask to go to heaven. All he asked of Jesus was that he remember him, when he "entered into his Kingdom."

But in that one profession of faith, all of this man's sins were wiped out, and not only did he go to heaven, he went immediately to heaven, not even spending time in purgatory, where the Catholic Church tells us sinners go to be purified of their sins.

The story tells us a few simple truths.

That faith is so important to God, that even one profession of faith will wipe out a lifetime of sin.

That there is no such thing as a sinner who cannot be redeemed.

That God does not keep a balance sheet of sins and good deeds, the slate can be wiped clean in the moment before death simply by acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

Judas got a bad rap because God made him do the dirty deed. When I get to Heaven, St. Peter will surely yell, open the gate, you have served your time in Hell.

 

[Blackrook]

...went to heaven.

The Catholic Church tells us all the Apostles but Judas went to heaven, but looking only at the Bible, the only person we know for sure went to heaven was the "good thief."

But he wasn't a thief, he was a revolutionary, crucified by the Romans for violently resisting the occupation of Israel.

And he did not go to heaven for a life of good deeds. On the contrary, he was a soldier in a war that could never be won, and in that war, he might have committed terrible atrocities to further his cause.

In the modern era, he might even have qualified as a terrorist, for certainly he was a terrorist in the eyes of the Roman occupation army.

And he did not ask to go to heaven. All he asked of Jesus was that he remember him, when he "entered into his Kingdom."

But in that one profession of faith, all of this man's sins were wiped out, and not only did he go to heaven, he went immediately to heaven, not even spending time in purgatory, where the Catholic Church tells us sinners go to be purified of their sins.

The story tells us a few simple truths.

That faith is so important to God, that even one profession of faith will wipe out a lifetime of sin.

That there is no such thing as a sinner who cannot be redeemed.

That God does not keep a balance sheet of sins and good deeds, the slate can be wiped clean in the moment before death simply by acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

Judas got a bad rap because God made him do the dirty deed. When I get to Heaven, St. Peter will surely yell, open the gate because you have served your time in Hell.

Is that from a song?

 

[HaShev]

...went to heaven.

The Catholic Church tells us all the Apostles but Judas went to heaven, but looking only at the Bible, the only person we know for sure went to heaven was the "good thief."

But he wasn't a thief, he was a revolutionary, crucified by the Romans for violently resisting the occupation of Israel.

And he did not go to heaven for a life of good deeds. On the contrary, he was a soldier in a war that could never be won, and in that war, he might have committed terrible atrocities to further his cause.

In the modern era, he might even have qualified as a terrorist, for certainly he was a terrorist in the eyes of the Roman occupation army.

And he did not ask to go to heaven. All he asked of Jesus was that he remember him, when he "entered into his Kingdom."

But in that one profession of faith, all of this man's sins were wiped out, and not only did he go to heaven, he went immediately to heaven, not even spending time in purgatory, where the Catholic Church tells us sinners go to be purified of their sins.

The story tells us a few simple truths.

That faith is so important to God, that even one profession of faith will wipe out a lifetime of sin.

That there is no such thing as a sinner who cannot be redeemed.

That God does not keep a balance sheet of sins and good deeds, the slate can be wiped clean in the moment before death simply by acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

You boldly claim that “The 'good thief' was actually a revolutionary and the only person in the Bible we know for sure went to Heaven. Anyone who has read the Bible all the way though just once knows you are wrong. The Bible tells of others who went to heaven. Apparently you never heard of Enoch and Elijah.

“And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him”” (Geneis 5:23, 24, KJV).

“And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.” (2 Kings 2:11, KJV).

I have been studying the Bible for about 65 years and I know it fairly well. I am going to give you a link to the best Bible study tool available. The site has dozens of different versions in multiple languages. The best thing is that it has easy to use word-search and verse-search which enables you to quickly compare one version to another. Here's the link

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.

Yes the Biblegateway is a good search tool, however in any OT portion of his texts he needs Chabad's Tanakh translated to English otherwise he's being deceived by ulterior motive misstranslations and reinvention of Hebrew words and texts.

 

[irosie91]

...went to heaven.

The Catholic Church tells us all the Apostles but Judas went to heaven, but looking only at the Bible, the only person we know for sure went to heaven was the "good thief."

But he wasn't a thief, he was a revolutionary, crucified by the Romans for violently resisting the occupation of Israel.

And he did not go to heaven for a life of good deeds. On the contrary, he was a soldier in a war that could never be won, and in that war, he might have committed terrible atrocities to further his cause.

In the modern era, he might even have qualified as a terrorist, for certainly he was a terrorist in the eyes of the Roman occupation army.

And he did not ask to go to heaven. All he asked of Jesus was that he remember him, when he "entered into his Kingdom."

But in that one profession of faith, all of this man's sins were wiped out, and not only did he go to heaven, he went immediately to heaven, not even spending time in purgatory, where the Catholic Church tells us sinners go to be purified of their sins.

The story tells us a few simple truths.

That faith is so important to God, that even one profession of faith will wipe out a lifetime of sin.

That there is no such thing as a sinner who cannot be redeemed.

That God does not keep a balance sheet of sins and good deeds, the slate can be wiped clean in the moment before death simply by acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

You boldly claim that “The 'good thief' was actually a revolutionary and the only person in the Bible we know for sure went to Heaven. Anyone who has read the Bible all the way though just once knows you are wrong. The Bible tells of others who went to heaven. Apparently you never heard of Enoch and Elijah.

“And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him”” (Geneis 5:23, 24, KJV).

“And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.” (2 Kings 2:11, KJV).

I have been studying the Bible for about 65 years and I know it fairly well. I am going to give you a link to the best Bible study tool available. The site has dozens of different versions in multiple languages. The best thing is that it has easy to use word-search and verse-search which enables you to quickly compare one version to another. Here's the link

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.

the one you got right as a "sure thing" is Elijah-----not enoch------- " "G-d" took him" is more like
a standard way of saying the guy died. As to people being crucified--------that was done for
people who committed a crime AGAINST -----ROME--------sedition. Not for shop lifting

 

[irosie91]

The Bible is quite clear that faith is what's required to be saved. James says, we also need good works, because faith without good works is dead. But there is no part of the Bible, not anywhere, that says good works alone will save you, if you don't have faith.

Yes that is what Protestants do, ignore Jesus and go with Paul and James.[/QUOTE

Penelope ----your utterly idiotic misrepresentation of both protestant and catholic
dogma is getting on people's nerves. Your writings suggest psychosis

There is a difference between the protesters aka protestants and RC. One is dependent on faith and one can live the life of sin , the other good works in thoughts and deeds.

Penny dear-----you are very confused------maybe you should try reading the books
instead of inventing -------however---reading them will not help------see a doctor

 

[Penelope]

...went to heaven.

The Catholic Church tells us all the Apostles but Judas went to heaven, but looking only at the Bible, the only person we know for sure went to heaven was the "good thief."

But he wasn't a thief, he was a revolutionary, crucified by the Romans for violently resisting the occupation of Israel.

And he did not go to heaven for a life of good deeds. On the contrary, he was a soldier in a war that could never be won, and in that war, he might have committed terrible atrocities to further his cause.

In the modern era, he might even have qualified as a terrorist, for certainly he was a terrorist in the eyes of the Roman occupation army.

And he did not ask to go to heaven. All he asked of Jesus was that he remember him, when he "entered into his Kingdom."

But in that one profession of faith, all of this man's sins were wiped out, and not only did he go to heaven, he went immediately to heaven, not even spending time in purgatory, where the Catholic Church tells us sinners go to be purified of their sins.

The story tells us a few simple truths.

That faith is so important to God, that even one profession of faith will wipe out a lifetime of sin.

That there is no such thing as a sinner who cannot be redeemed.

That God does not keep a balance sheet of sins and good deeds, the slate can be wiped clean in the moment before death simply by acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

How do you discuss a topic without leaving sources to who you are referring to?
There's 2 thieves in the NT, Jesus Bar-abbas and Jesus who was a *thief of the NIGHT because he is being claimed
"the day" (Morning Star=Lucifer-Rev 22;16).

*-1 Thessalonians 5:2, Matthew 24:43,

The Bible is quite clear that faith is what's required to be saved. James says, we also need good works, because faith without good works is dead. But there is no part of the Bible, not anywhere, that says good works alone will save you, if you don't have faith.

Have you built the Mikdash in the city in his name?
Then how can you say you have faith?

YeruShalem would carry the name. (1 Kings 11:36 &
in dead sea scrolls: Words of the Archangel Michael scroll 4Q529, 6Q23)
The Gemarah (Baba Batra 75) Tells us Jerusalem is named after G0D and is the place commemorating his name and essence. In Sefer D’varim (12:5, 11, 14, 18, 21; 14:23,24, 25; 15:20; 16:2, 6, 7, 11, 15, 16; 17:8, 10; 18:6; 26:2; 31:11).the place that I will choose to place My Name. That is referring to YeruShalem because Sifri identifies the place which Hashem will choose (12:18) as “Yerushalayim”.
Why is this in the Archangel Michael scroll? Because Shalem
Shalim - Wikipedia
is the Evening Star=
Rising Archangel- Dan 12:1-4
Which is why it says the Temple(MIKdash)
is in his name.
-Melakim {I Kings8:43}(2Chronicles6)
Ma'aser Sheni in the Torah says
About tithing the produced food and eating it at the Temple:
“at the site that He shall choose to place His Name”

("The Name"[HaShem]of God will be in his name-EXODUS 23:20-21 & Hebrew Version of Micah 4:5)

God in the OT said his name was Jealous.

 

[Penelope]

The Bible is quite clear that faith is what's required to be saved. James says, we also need good works, because faith without good works is dead. But there is no part of the Bible, not anywhere, that says good works alone will save you, if you don't have faith.

Yes that is what Protestants do, ignore Jesus and go with Paul and James.[/QUOTE

Penelope ----your utterly idiotic misrepresentation of both protestant and catholic
dogma is getting on people's nerves. Your writings suggest psychosis

There is a difference between the protesters aka protestants and RC. One is dependent on faith and one can live the life of sin , the other good works in thoughts and deeds.

No.

Yes.

 

[irosie91]

I would suggest that Martin Luther was wrong in the way he took his ideas to the extreme, but he wasn't wrong about the basic teaching he was trying to convey.

And I would have to agree, that my review of the Bible indicates that Jesus cared a lot more about faith than he did about good works.

However, the Parable of the Rich Man indicates that a man who does not act while others suffer will be denied the Kingdom of God.

Also, James says quite clearly that faith without good works is dead, for even the demons have faith.

Really, you know what he told the rich man, who kept all the commandments, and then Jesus says to him sell all you own and give to the poor and follow me.

so?? you make Jesus seem like a typical cult leader-------JIM JONES said the same thing

 

[xband]

...went to heaven.

The Catholic Church tells us all the Apostles but Judas went to heaven, but looking only at the Bible, the only person we know for sure went to heaven was the "good thief."

But he wasn't a thief, he was a revolutionary, crucified by the Romans for violently resisting the occupation of Israel.

And he did not go to heaven for a life of good deeds. On the contrary, he was a soldier in a war that could never be won, and in that war, he might have committed terrible atrocities to further his cause.

In the modern era, he might even have qualified as a terrorist, for certainly he was a terrorist in the eyes of the Roman occupation army.

And he did not ask to go to heaven. All he asked of Jesus was that he remember him, when he "entered into his Kingdom."

But in that one profession of faith, all of this man's sins were wiped out, and not only did he go to heaven, he went immediately to heaven, not even spending time in purgatory, where the Catholic Church tells us sinners go to be purified of their sins.

The story tells us a few simple truths.

That faith is so important to God, that even one profession of faith will wipe out a lifetime of sin.

That there is no such thing as a sinner who cannot be redeemed.

That God does not keep a balance sheet of sins and good deeds, the slate can be wiped clean in the moment before death simply by acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

Judas got a bad rap because God made him do the dirty deed. When I get to Heaven, St. Peter will surely yell, open the gate because you have served your time in Hell.

Is that from a song?

I am almost positive that something close to it is from a poem that I plagiarized a long time ago.

 

[Blackrook]

Penelope you are confusing everyone with your totally erroneous statements regarding the differences between what Catholics believe and what Protestants believe. Please stop.

 

[Blackrook]

Judas had a choice. He always had a choice. The fact that Jesus knew the future about what Judas would do does not change the fact that Judas had a choice.

 

[Penelope]

...went to heaven.

The Catholic Church tells us all the Apostles but Judas went to heaven, but looking only at the Bible, the only person we know for sure went to heaven was the "good thief."

But he wasn't a thief, he was a revolutionary, crucified by the Romans for violently resisting the occupation of Israel.

And he did not go to heaven for a life of good deeds. On the contrary, he was a soldier in a war that could never be won, and in that war, he might have committed terrible atrocities to further his cause.

In the modern era, he might even have qualified as a terrorist, for certainly he was a terrorist in the eyes of the Roman occupation army.

And he did not ask to go to heaven. All he asked of Jesus was that he remember him, when he "entered into his Kingdom."

But in that one profession of faith, all of this man's sins were wiped out, and not only did he go to heaven, he went immediately to heaven, not even spending time in purgatory, where the Catholic Church tells us sinners go to be purified of their sins.

The story tells us a few simple truths.

That faith is so important to God, that even one profession of faith will wipe out a lifetime of sin.

That there is no such thing as a sinner who cannot be redeemed.

That God does not keep a balance sheet of sins and good deeds, the slate can be wiped clean in the moment before death simply by acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

You boldly claim that “The 'good thief' was actually a revolutionary and the only person in the Bible we know for sure went to Heaven. Anyone who has read the Bible all the way though just once knows you are wrong. The Bible tells of others who went to heaven. Apparently you never heard of Enoch and Elijah.

“And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him”” (Geneis 5:23, 24, KJV).

“And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.” (2 Kings 2:11, KJV).

I have been studying the Bible for about 65 years and I know it fairly well. I am going to give you a link to the best Bible study tool available. The site has dozens of different versions in multiple languages. The best thing is that it has easy to use word-search and verse-search which enables you to quickly compare one version to another. Here's the link

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.

the one you got right as a "sure thing" is Elijah-----not enoch------- " "G-d" took him" is more like
a standard way of saying the guy died. As to people being crucified--------that was done for
people who committed a crime AGAINST -----ROME--------sedition. Not for shop lifting

Elijah, the bald guy who cursed the kids that teased him so the bears killed the kids, yep we can be sure he went to heaven, probably before he was thrown into the pit of endless fire.

 

[Penelope]

Penelope you are confusing everyone with your totally erroneous statements regarding the differences between what Catholics believe and what Protestants believe. Please stop.

When I have Baptist come to my door from their local church, and I tell them I'm RC, they proceed to tell me how I am not saved as all I have to do is confess Jesus as my lord and savior and will be (when I feel like telling them to go to hell, but they come with their kids), I slam the door, now the Mormon guys, are so nice and just invite me to their church. The Baptist know not to come to my door. Same with JW.

 

[irosie91]

...went to heaven.

The Catholic Church tells us all the Apostles but Judas went to heaven, but looking only at the Bible, the only person we know for sure went to heaven was the "good thief."

But he wasn't a thief, he was a revolutionary, crucified by the Romans for violently resisting the occupation of Israel.

And he did not go to heaven for a life of good deeds. On the contrary, he was a soldier in a war that could never be won, and in that war, he might have committed terrible atrocities to further his cause.

In the modern era, he might even have qualified as a terrorist, for certainly he was a terrorist in the eyes of the Roman occupation army.

And he did not ask to go to heaven. All he asked of Jesus was that he remember him, when he "entered into his Kingdom."

But in that one profession of faith, all of this man's sins were wiped out, and not only did he go to heaven, he went immediately to heaven, not even spending time in purgatory, where the Catholic Church tells us sinners go to be purified of their sins.

The story tells us a few simple truths.

That faith is so important to God, that even one profession of faith will wipe out a lifetime of sin.

That there is no such thing as a sinner who cannot be redeemed.

That God does not keep a balance sheet of sins and good deeds, the slate can be wiped clean in the moment before death simply by acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

You boldly claim that “The 'good thief' was actually a revolutionary and the only person in the Bible we know for sure went to Heaven. Anyone who has read the Bible all the way though just once knows you are wrong. The Bible tells of others who went to heaven. Apparently you never heard of Enoch and Elijah.

“And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him”” (Geneis 5:23, 24, KJV).

“And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.” (2 Kings 2:11, KJV).

I have been studying the Bible for about 65 years and I know it fairly well. I am going to give you a link to the best Bible study tool available. The site has dozens of different versions in multiple languages. The best thing is that it has easy to use word-search and verse-search which enables you to quickly compare one version to another. Here's the link

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.

the one you got right as a "sure thing" is Elijah-----not enoch------- " "G-d" took him" is more like
a standard way of saying the guy died. As to people being crucified--------that was done for
people who committed a crime AGAINST -----ROME--------sedition. Not for shop lifting

Elijah, the bald guy who cursed the kids that teased him so the bears killed the kids, yep we can be sure he went to heaven, probably before he was thrown into the pit of endless fire.

Yes----Elijah -----As to bears killing kids------Elijah did not kill anyone-----you are citing
a parable---- Ask your catechism whore who Elijah was (hint-----think "the Baptist")

 

[Penelope]

I would suggest that Martin Luther was wrong in the way he took his ideas to the extreme, but he wasn't wrong about the basic teaching he was trying to convey.

And I would have to agree, that my review of the Bible indicates that Jesus cared a lot more about faith than he did about good works.

However, the Parable of the Rich Man indicates that a man who does not act while others suffer will be denied the Kingdom of God.

Also, James says quite clearly that faith without good works is dead, for even the demons have faith.

Really, you know what he told the rich man, who kept all the commandments, and then Jesus says to him sell all you own and give to the poor and follow me.

so?? you make Jesus seem like a typical cult leader-------JIM JONES said the same thing

That is what he said. The difference is Jesus is the son of God.

 

[Penelope]

...went to heaven.

The Catholic Church tells us all the Apostles but Judas went to heaven, but looking only at the Bible, the only person we know for sure went to heaven was the "good thief."

But he wasn't a thief, he was a revolutionary, crucified by the Romans for violently resisting the occupation of Israel.

And he did not go to heaven for a life of good deeds. On the contrary, he was a soldier in a war that could never be won, and in that war, he might have committed terrible atrocities to further his cause.

In the modern era, he might even have qualified as a terrorist, for certainly he was a terrorist in the eyes of the Roman occupation army.

And he did not ask to go to heaven. All he asked of Jesus was that he remember him, when he "entered into his Kingdom."

But in that one profession of faith, all of this man's sins were wiped out, and not only did he go to heaven, he went immediately to heaven, not even spending time in purgatory, where the Catholic Church tells us sinners go to be purified of their sins.

The story tells us a few simple truths.

That faith is so important to God, that even one profession of faith will wipe out a lifetime of sin.

That there is no such thing as a sinner who cannot be redeemed.

That God does not keep a balance sheet of sins and good deeds, the slate can be wiped clean in the moment before death simply by acknowledging Jesus as Lord.

You boldly claim that “The 'good thief' was actually a revolutionary and the only person in the Bible we know for sure went to Heaven. Anyone who has read the Bible all the way though just once knows you are wrong. The Bible tells of others who went to heaven. Apparently you never heard of Enoch and Elijah.

“And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him”” (Geneis 5:23, 24, KJV).

“And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.” (2 Kings 2:11, KJV).

I have been studying the Bible for about 65 years and I know it fairly well. I am going to give you a link to the best Bible study tool available. The site has dozens of different versions in multiple languages. The best thing is that it has easy to use word-search and verse-search which enables you to quickly compare one version to another. Here's the link

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.

the one you got right as a "sure thing" is Elijah-----not enoch------- " "G-d" took him" is more like
a standard way of saying the guy died. As to people being crucified--------that was done for
people who committed a crime AGAINST -----ROME--------sedition. Not for shop lifting

Elijah, the bald guy who cursed the kids that teased him so the bears killed the kids, yep we can be sure he went to heaven, probably before he was thrown into the pit of endless fire.

Yes----Elijah -----As to bears killing kids------Elijah did not kill anyone-----you are citing
a parable---- Ask your catechism whore who Elijah was (hint-----think "the Baptist")

So you believe in reincarnation, many did back then. (PS: the Elijah story is not a parable)

 

[xband]

Penelope you are confusing everyone with your totally erroneous statements regarding the differences between what Catholics believe and what Protestants believe. Please stop.

When I have Baptist come to my door from their local church, and I tell them I'm RC, they proceed to tell me how I am not saved as all I have to do is confess Jesus as my lord and savior and will be (when I feel like telling them to go to hell, but they come with their kids), I slam the door, now the Mormon guys, are so nice and just invite me to their church. The Baptist know not to come to my door. Same with JW.

Many soldiers, sailors and airmen experience Jesus in the height of battle without reading the Good Book. I will tell your for a fact that Jesus is real.