Zone1 The difference between Hillel and Jesus’ “Golden Rule”

[Lisa558]

Actually they only excluded Gentiles from the whole kosher thing.

You mean Jews who believed in Jesus (which makes them Christians) still had to keep kosher?

 

[Picaro]

You mean Jews who believed in Jesus (which makes them Christians) still had to keep kosher?

Both can do so voluntarily; being Jewish doesn't exclude Jews from being Christian or from following the Laws laid out in the Torah, the written Torah. Keeping kosher is a cultural thing, not so with Gentiles, unless they choose to. Some do. Not all non-Christian Jews still follow all the laws strictly themselves in modern times.


Most of the basic laws of kashrut are derived from the Torah's Books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Their details and practical application, however, are set down in the oral law (eventually codified in the Mishnah and Talmud) and elaborated on in the later rabbinical literature. Although the Torah does not state the rationale for most kashrut laws, some suggest that they are only tests for man's obedience,[1] while others have suggested philosophical, practical and hygienic reasons.[2][3][4]


Over the past century, many rabbinical organizations have started to certify products, manufacturers, and restaurants as kosher, usually using a symbol (called a hechsher) to indicate their support. Currently, about a sixth of American Jews or 0.3% of the American population fully keep kosher, and there are many more who do not strictly follow all the rules but still abstain from some prohibited foods (especially pork).

Traditional and Kosher Rules - RMIG

rmig.eatrightpro.org

According to "A Portrait of Jewish Americans," a landmark 2013 Pew Research Center Study on American Jewish beliefs and practices, approximately 22% of American Jews keep kosher in their homes.1 Those who identified as Orthodox or Modern Orthodox were most likely to keep kosher homes, at rates of 98% and 83% respectively. 31% of Jews who identified as Conservative reported that they kept kosher, while 7% of Reform respondents upheld the practice. Of survey respondents who claimed no particular affiliation, 10% kept kosher in the home.


This snapshot of kosher observance in America does not translate to Jews around the globe. In Israel, for example, fewer Jews identify with denominational labels. Of those who consider themselves non-Orthodox, 52% keep kosher at home, compared with just 14% of non-Orthodox Jews in America. As for pork consumption—which many Jews consider the ultimate kosher taboo—only 20% of non-Orthodox Israeli Jews said they eat it. Among non-Orthodox Jewish American survey respondents, that figure was closer to 65%.

Do All American Jewish People Keep Kosher?

My grandmother on my father's side kept a kosher table, while grand pa could care less about it.

 

[Lisa558]

Both can do so voluntarily; being Jewish doesn't exclude Jews from being Christian or from following the Laws laid out in the Torah, the written Torah. Keeping kosher is a cultural thing, not so with Gentiles, unless they choose to. Some do.

Jews can convert to Christianity, true. But let’s not kid ourselves like that Jews-for-Jesus group, which started because Christians couldn’t get enough Jews to convert. So they told Jews…..”hey, you can believe in Jesus and STILL be Jewish!”

The fact is that Jews who believe Jesus was a deity are violating the KEY tenet of Judaism.

 

[Picaro]

Jews can convert to Christianity, true. But let’s not kid ourselves like that Jews-for-Jesus group, which started because Christians couldn’t get enough Jews to convert. So they told Jews…..”hey, you can believe in Jesus and STILL be Jewish!”

The fact is that Jews who believe Jesus was a deity are violating the KEY tenet of Judaism.

lol Jesus and most of the Apostles preached almost exclusively to Jews. It was founded by practicing Jews, and expanded via synagogues in other cities.

 

[Meriweather]

Or….Paul just told people they don’t have to keep kosher anymore if they convert to his new religion to make it more appealing.

First Jesus, followed by Paul, had this point to make. What one consumes (puts into his body) is not what makes the person unclean. The evil that comes out of the body (the heart) is what makes one unclean.

That is a good point to take to heart. On its way to the heart I find reason to giggle as Paul goes on to speak out against gluttony (definitely what one puts into the body); and in Christianity gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins!
It seems humanity always had a basic understanding that it matters what one eats--and what one eats can affect one's physical health which in turn can affect one's spiritual health.

 

[Lisa558]

First Jesus, followed by Paul, had this point to make. What one consumes (puts into his body) is not what makes the person unclean. The evil that comes out of the body (the heart) is what makes one unclean.

That is a good point to take to heart. On its way to the heart I find reason to giggle as Paul goes on to speak out against gluttony (definitely what one puts into the body); and in Christianity gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins!
It seems humanity always had a basic understanding that it matters what one eats--and what one eats can affect one's physical health which in turn can affect one's spiritual health.

Kashrut is not just about cleanliness. It is also about compassion - hence the law about meat/dairy and the dictate as to slaughter.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Both can do so voluntarily; being Jewish doesn't exclude Jews from being Christian or from following the Laws laid out in the Torah, the written Torah. Keeping kosher is a cultural thing, not so with Gentiles, unless they choose to. Some do.

According to some rabbi, there are certain laws and customs which should only be reserved for Jews, not even Noahides or people of other faith. should follow these.

What I have heard more than once, is that the Sabbath is strictly meant for Jews. It is their burden to carry and if non-Jews purposely carry it, that is an insult to G-d as his instructions were to the Jews.

So even if you want to keep the Sabbath, which I have indulged in from time to time in a ceremonial manner not with full intent; it has been advised if you are not Jewish that you purposely break it. Even if it is the simple act of turning on a light or drive your car to the corner store to ensure you break it. It is more acceptable in G-ds eyes than you loyally keeping the Sabbath that is meant for Jews only.

If one is to be religious and follow the written and oral instructions, there should be at least some adherence to the Torah and the Talmud in my opinion. Not eating pork, following dairy/meat instructions (which again, some argue is cultural and/or "advisory" not a rule) can be a personal choice.

However, if you weren''t Jewish you wouldn't wear tefellin, right? You wouldn't keep mezuzah in your home etc.

Again, this varies depending on the guidance of those with an authority on different matters. Even the most well read rabbis disagree on so much. Many suggest it's fine to celebrate Hanukkah even welcome that you light the menorah as a non-Jew, fast during Passover, eat kosher etc. Some take a different perspectives that suggest "you just need to keep the seven laws of Noah to do your part. Don't engage in anything more". Though the latter opinion is the minority.

I suspect some of this opinion is that they, as loyal followers of Judaism, want to be responsible for as much of the burden as possible. They feel it is their duty so they prefer gentiles do not carry more than is absolutely necessary. Honorable. It builds character as well as a devotion.

In fact, Judaism demands that Jews carry the primary burden, but they also require all of humanity to be at peace. This is critical for Moshiach to arrive. So gentiles and non-Jews play a critical role in Judaism and the most strict of Jews appreciate this great paradox. An Ultra-Orthodox Jew would embrace this important concept better than a Reform Jew might for instance.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Jews can convert to Christianity, true

Still wouldn’t have saved them.

Visiting Dachau, now an informative museum, evidenced that.

 

[Picaro]

According to some rabbi, there are certain laws and customs which should only be reserved for Jews, not even Noahides or people of other faith. should follow these.

What I have heard more than once, is that the Sabbath is strictly meant for Jews. It is their burden to carry and if non-Jews purposely carry it, that is an insult to G-d as his instructions were to the Jews.

So even if you want to keep the Sabbath, which I have indulged in from time to time in a ceremonial manner not with full intent; it has been advised if you are not Jewish that you purposely break it. Even if it is the simple act of turning on a light or drive your car to the corner store to ensure you break it. It is more acceptable in G-ds eyes than you loyally keeping the Sabbath that is meant for Jews only.

If one is to be religious and follow the written and oral instructions, there should be at least some adherence to the Torah and the Talmud in my opinion. Not eating pork, following dairy/meat instructions (which again, some argue is cultural and/or "advisory" not a rule) can be a personal choice.

However, if you weren''t Jewish you wouldn't wear tefellin, right? You wouldn't keep mezuzah in your home etc.

Again, this varies depending on the guidance of those with an authority on different matters. Even the most well read rabbis disagree on so much. Many suggest it's fine to celebrate Hanukkah even welcome that you light the menorah as a non-Jew, fast during Passover, eat kosher etc. Some take a different perspectives that suggest "you just need to keep the seven laws of Noah to do your part. Don't engage in anything more". Though the latter opinion is the minority.

I suspect some of this opinion is that they, as loyal followers of Judaism, want to be responsible for as much of the burden as possible. They feel it is their duty so they prefer gentiles do not carry more than is absolutely necessary. Honorable. It builds character as well as a devotion.

In fact, Judaism demands that Jews carry the primary burden, but they also require all of humanity to be at peace. This is critical for Moshiach to arrive. So gentiles and non-Jews play a critical role in Judaism and the most strict of Jews appreciate this great paradox. An Ultra-Orthodox Jew would embrace this important concept better than a Reform Jew might for instance.

there is a variety of beliefs. Ashkenazim and Sephardi have some differences re keeping kosher, etc. for example. I mostly ignore the post-Ezra fabrications as BS.

 

[Lisa558]

Still wouldn’t have saved them.

Visiting Dachau, now an informative museum, evidenced that.

Yup. Christians with a Jewish great-grandparent were sent to the gas chambers too.

 

[luiza]

He baptized Jesus.

Never .
Who would have guessed ?

And his cousin baptised Jesus because he was an Essene Priest -- the position Jesus took over .
John did not sit out in the desert waiting for Manna to drop down .
He was a Zealot and Priest . Totally the opposite .

 

[Picaro]

Never .
Who would have guessed ?

And his cousin baptised Jesus because he was an Essene Priest -- the position Jesus took over .
John did not sit out in the desert waiting for Manna to drop down .
He was a Zealot and Priest . Totally the opposite .

Jesus was not an Essene sectarian, and neither was John The Baptist. Many of the outliers were banished from the city. Go read some history.

 

[Lisa558]

there is a variety of beliefs. Ashkenazim and Sephardi have some differences re keeping kosher, etc. for example. I mostly ignore the post-Ezra fabrications as BS.

What would those be?

I stick with the meat/dairy law, and only eat animals that chew their cud and fish with fins and scales.

Reminds me of a funny incident. I was in New Orleans on business, and we all went out to a Creole-style restaurant. I didn’t recognize ANYTHING on the menu - all sorts of weird seafood names - or else I recognized stuff that definitely wasn’t kosher.

So I pointed to an item that seemed to be a fish and asked if it had fins and scales. The waiter looked at me like I was nuts!

 

[Picaro]

What would those be?

One of my links has a short discussion on them. Here is another:

From East to West: Where Do Sephardic and Ashkenazic Poskim Differ When It Comes to Kashering? - Kosher for Passover

Learn the major differences between Sephardim and Ashkenazim regarding chametz utensils and kashering for Pesach.

oukosher.org

 

[Lisa558]

One of my links has a short discussion on them.

Could you point me to that link, please?

 

[Lisa558]

One of my links has a short discussion on them. Here is another:

From East to West: Where Do Sephardic and Ashkenazic Poskim Differ When It Comes to Kashering? - Kosher for Passover

Learn the major differences between Sephardim and Ashkenazim regarding chametz utensils and kashering for Pesach.

oukosher.org

Thanks. That seems to be mostly differences with Passover kashrut.

 

[Picaro]

Could you point me to that link, please?

Found a more comprehensive one here.

From East to West: Where Do Sephardic and Ashkenazic Poskim Differ When It Comes to Kashering? - Kosher for Passover

Learn the major differences between Sephardim and Ashkenazim regarding chametz utensils and kashering for Pesach.

oukosher.org

ah, you got it, never mind, same link.

 

[Lisa558]

Both can do so voluntarily; being Jewish doesn't exclude Jews from being Christian or from following the Laws laid out in the Torah, the written Torah. Keeping kosher is a cultural thing, not so with Gentiles, unless they choose to. Some do. Not all non-Christian Jews still follow all the laws strictly themselves in modern times.


Most of the basic laws of kashrut are derived from the Torah's Books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Their details and practical application, however, are set down in the oral law (eventually codified in the Mishnah and Talmud) and elaborated on in the later rabbinical literature. Although the Torah does not state the rationale for most kashrut laws, some suggest that they are only tests for man's obedience,[1] while others have suggested philosophical, practical and hygienic reasons.[2][3][4]


Over the past century, many rabbinical organizations have started to certify products, manufacturers, and restaurants as kosher, usually using a symbol (called a hechsher) to indicate their support. Currently, about a sixth of American Jews or 0.3% of the American population fully keep kosher, and there are many more who do not strictly follow all the rules but still abstain from some prohibited foods (especially pork).

Traditional and Kosher Rules - RMIG

rmig.eatrightpro.org

According to "A Portrait of Jewish Americans," a landmark 2013 Pew Research Center Study on American Jewish beliefs and practices, approximately 22% of American Jews keep kosher in their homes.1 Those who identified as Orthodox or Modern Orthodox were most likely to keep kosher homes, at rates of 98% and 83% respectively. 31% of Jews who identified as Conservative reported that they kept kosher, while 7% of Reform respondents upheld the practice. Of survey respondents who claimed no particular affiliation, 10% kept kosher in the home.


This snapshot of kosher observance in America does not translate to Jews around the globe. In Israel, for example, fewer Jews identify with denominational labels. Of those who consider themselves non-Orthodox, 52% keep kosher at home, compared with just 14% of non-Orthodox Jews in America. As for pork consumption—which many Jews consider the ultimate kosher taboo—only 20% of non-Orthodox Israeli Jews said they eat it. Among non-Orthodox Jewish American survey respondents, that figure was closer to 65%.

Do All American Jewish People Keep Kosher?

My grandmother on my father's side kept a kosher table, while grand pa could care less about it.

That was really interesting. What surprised me most was that only 83% of Modern Orthodox Jews keep kosher, which means that almost one in five do not.

 

[ding]

Did you invent that ^^^ little limerick all by yourself?

Can't remember. I think I heard it somewhere first.

But does anyone really invent anything? Or do they discover it.

 

[Votto]

Indeed. Just because certain themes run across several cultures and timelines doesn't mean they all originated in the same place. 'Great Flood' stories are another example, as are 'dragons' and 'giant animals'. Most probably developed independently for the most part, i.e. 'hard wired' into humans, which is likely the case with religion. It exists for a reason and serves a purpose. Some do a lot better job than others re society; even Hegel acknowledges that.

It is a mistake to think those stories are made up. There is truth there, you just need to find it.

For example, to even know what a flood is in regard to stories about a great flood in the Bible, you first have to experience a flood.

The only question becomes, how big was the flood and not did a great flood happen.