Zone1 The difference between Hillel and Jesus’ “Golden Rule”

[Lisa558]

Can't remember. I think I heard it somewhere first.

But does anyone really invent anything? Or do they discover it.

There is no such thing as an original idea anymore. The talent lies in knowing what to steal.

 

[ding]

There is no such thing as an original idea anymore. The talent lies in knowing what to steal.

I tell people that my only true talent is that I know what good looks like. So I only steal good ideas.

 

[Picaro]

That was really interesting. What surprised me most was that only 83% of Modern Orthodox Jews keep kosher, which means that almost one in five do not.

I was surprised about the Israeli stats being as low as they were.

 

[Picaro]

It is a mistake to think those stories are made up. There is truth there, you just need to find it.

For example, to even know what a flood is in regard to stories about a great flood in the Bible, you first have to experience a flood.

The only question becomes, how big was the flood and not did a great flood happen.

Re 'great floods' being widespread, there are marine fossils very high up in even the Himalayas, on Mount Ararat, in Central America, east Asia, etc. They wouldn't have much idea of how old they were, really, and no knowledge of tectonics, but ancient peoples certainly saw a lot of them. They would have a reason to account for them.

 

[rosends]

That was really interesting. What surprised me most was that only 83% of Modern Orthodox Jews keep kosher, which means that almost one in five do not.

I would not trust those statistics. Unless they define a specific version and vision of "Modern Orthodox" or "Kosher" and unless they really get to the sample that is representative, I wouldn't accept it. I know MANY Modern Orthodox Jews and none of them doesn't keep kosher. Do their kids take it as seriously? I don't know -- do the statistics break down by age?

 

[ding]

I would not trust those statistics. Unless they define a specific version and vision of "Modern Orthodox" or "Kosher" and unless they really get to the sample that is representative, I wouldn't accept it. I know MANY Modern Orthodox Jews and none of them doesn't keep kosher. Do their kids take it as seriously? I don't know -- do the statistics break down by age?

I don't trust them either. They are too high.

"...only 33% of Jews believe in a biblical God, compared to 80% of Christians. A majority of Jews believe in “some other higher power of spiritual force in the universe,” according to the study. Ten percent of Jews do not believe in God..."

Most US Jews believe in God, but don’t think He judges them

Only 33% believe in a biblical deity, compared to 80% of Christians, but just 10% of Jews say they do not believe at all

www.timesofisrael.com

Granted the survey had a large margin of error because of a small Jewish sample size.

 

[rosends]

I don't trust them either. They are too high.

"...only 33% of Jews believe in a biblical God, compared to 80% of Christians. A majority of Jews believe in “some other higher power of spiritual force in the universe,” according to the study. Ten percent of Jews do not believe in God..."

Most US Jews believe in God, but don’t think He judges them

Only 33% believe in a biblical deity, compared to 80% of Christians, but just 10% of Jews say they do not believe at all

www.timesofisrael.com

Granted the survey had a large margin of error because of a small Jewish sample size.

the survey was of modern orthodox Jews. That's a specific subset. Looking at statistics for the entire population of Jews will lead to very different results.

 

[BreezeWood]

What I have heard more than once, is that the Sabbath is strictly meant for Jews. It is their burden to carry and if non-Jews purposely carry it, that is an insult to G-d as his instructions were to the Jews.

the point of the 1st century events is the repudiation of heavenly personification made by judaism that never occurred ...

jesus knew the heavens creation, garden earth, life - is what they deemed their sabbath to keep holy and was their objective to continue their activities during that time to convey the misrepresentation made by judaism for their pretension as a heavenly personification. the false commandments.

anything claimed by judaism of heavenly persuasion as meant for them or anything in particular is the obvious flaw and fallacy of their religion and is the objection made by jesus to correct those misconceptions.

- nothing of those conclusions were derived by hillel.

 

[Billo_Really]

For those who don’t know, Jesus was a great admirer of Hillel and used his teachings in many of his own sermons. The most famous of all is The Golden Rule, which Jesus switched around to put it in the positive:

Hillel: “That which is hateful to you, do not do unto others.”
Jesus: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

Which is easier to accomplish?

Elon Harvey - "Do unto others!" in Jewish, Christian, and Islamic Sources

There is a famous story found in the Talmud about a person who came to Hillel the Elder, the famous Jewish sage (d. 10 CE), and asked him to teach him "the entire Torah," i.e. all of Jewish law, in a nutshell. Hillel replied by invoking what is known as the Golden Rule, the notion that people

sites.google.com

I do unto others as they do unto me!

 

[shockedcanadian]

the point of the 1st century events is the repudiation of heavenly personification made by judaism that never occurred ...

jesus knew the heavens creation, garden earth, life - is what they deemed their sabbath to keep holy and was their objective to continue their activities during that time to convey the misrepresentation made by judaism for their pretension as a heavenly personification. the false commandments.

anything claimed by judaism of heavenly persuasion as meant for them or anything in particular is the obvious flaw and fallacy of their religion and is the objection made by jesus to correct those misconceptions.

- nothing of those conclusions were derived by hillel.

Hillels quote which was well documented by this in the Talmud of which he was a major contributor/founder. He and Jesus basically quote Leviticus in their own words. Both though the use of different grammatical forms, one is negation in its construction the other is the affirmative in construction.

In essence, Hillel formulated the ethical principle statement with the negative. If you know what is a bad experience, do not repeat that against another. Jesus used the positive formulation, if you know what is a good experience from another, DO likewise to another.

If one is objective and researches that time period and the Torah, they realize that Jesus for all of his beautiful guidance and tolerance, was not the chosen one since the prerequisites for his arrival had not been met.

I'm not sure what argument you are making to try and denounce what came before.

 

[BreezeWood]

If one is objective and researches that time period and the Torah, they realize that Jesus for all of his beautiful guidance and tolerance, was not the chosen one since the prerequisites for his arrival had not been met.

you sing for the judaism choir ... good for you.

For those who don’t know, Jesus was a great admirer of Hillel and used his teachings in many of his own sermons.

such are the provocative ...

anything claimed by judaism of heavenly persuasion as meant for them alone or anything in particular is the obvious flaw and fallacy of their religion and is the objection made by jesus to correct those misconceptions.

are you claiming the same for hillel as are the 1st century events - false claims of judaism heavenly personifications for themselves exclusively.

you are right, jesus is not judaisms special one, enough so their beliefs made them their enemy - shocky has no idea who they truly represented - judaism or the heavens.

 

[Lisa558]

I do unto others as they do unto me!

No you don’t. You yell “**** you, whore!” at a Jew simply because she doesn’t take your hateful attitude toward Israel.

 

[BreezeWood]

No you don’t. You yell “**** you, whore!” at a Jew simply because she doesn’t take your hateful attitude toward Israel.

For those who don’t know, Jesus was a great admirer of Hillel and used his teachings in many of his own sermons.

could that be the same ...

 

[irosie91]

could that be the same ...

Pharisees were IN on the "SCHOOL OF HILLEL"----Jesus was typical

 

[BreezeWood]

Pharisees were IN on the "SCHOOL OF HILLEL"----Jesus was typical

a claim 91 makes without a shred of evidence -

anything claimed by judaism of heavenly persuasion as meant for them alone or anything in particular is the obvious flaw and fallacy of their religion and is the objection made by jesus to correct those misconceptions.

hillel did not refute judaism's claim as a special emissary of the heavens as was the message made by jesus and the events of the 1st century ... in lite of their unassailable differences mere coincidence that may have existed between them has little purpose in comparison with the two individuals.

 

[shockedcanadian]

you sing for the judaism choir ... good for you.



such are the provocative ...



are you claiming the same for hillel as are the 1st century events - false claims of judaism heavenly personifications for themselves exclusively.

you are right, jesus is not judaisms special one, enough so their beliefs made them their enemy - shocky has no idea who they truly represented - judaism or the heavens.

I sing for the Torah and the biblical texts that survive and have been passed down.. These are historical documents which for the time in which communication was primarily oral in nature, is very rare indeed. These are invaluable sources of authority in which to refer to.

 

[irosie91]

oh---you are a sunday school valedictorian. FYI----at the time of
the life of Jesus----the Temple was very corrupted----by Roman
control. The Pharisees were AGHAST. The good guys----
like Caiaphas and Annas were Roman appointees as was HEROD
(the king) and the much maligned "tax collectors" like Matthew.
Pontius Pilate emerges a SAINT!!!!

Are you familiar with the Book of Tobit? Protestant Christians removed it from their Bible, but it remains in the Old Testament of the Catholic Bible as it was a story included in the scrolls of Jesus' day. It was written about two hundred years before Jesus was born, so also before the birth of Hillel, and is said to have been very popular among Jews.

The story was set at the time Jews were living in exile, and some turned to the worship of idols/foreign god. Tobit and his family remained faithful to God and His Commandments, and was an example of how faithful Jews should be/should have been living. Chapter 4 includes a Father's instructions. Verse 15 is astounding, and the verses following it are amazing as well. He tells his son:

(14) - Do to no one what you yourself dislike....
It continues with advice on what to do.

Since both Hillel and Jesus were traditional Jews who stood by Mosaic teachings and pointed to Jews who, even in times of exile, lived their faith. Further, if Hillel was calling to mind a verse in Tobit's story (Do to no one what you yourself dislike) he would expect his students/disciples to call to mind the verses following that instruct what one should do. Could it be both Hillel and Jesus were influenced by an earlier writer, the author of the Book of Tobit?

oh---you are a sunday school valedictorian. FYI----at the time of
the life of Jesus----the Temple was very corrupted----by Roman
control. The Pharisees were AGHAST. The good guys----
like Caiaphas and Annas were Roman appointees as was HEROD
(the king) and the much maligned "tax collectors" like Matthew.
Pontius Pilate emerges a SAINT!!!!

oh gee----the jelly bean valedictorians have been reduced to denial of
historic fact----I am reminded of the post world war II Islamo nazi propaganda I read as a child in the 1950s. In fact---the FACTS are right
there in the NT----sad that most christians never read it

 

[Meriweather]

oh gee----the jelly bean valedictorians have been reduced to denial of
historic fact----I am reminded of the post world war II Islamo nazi propaganda I read as a child in the 1950s. In fact---the FACTS are right
there in the NT----sad that most christians never read it

What historical fact are you accusing me of denying?

 

[BreezeWood]

I sing for the Torah and the biblical texts that survive and have been passed down.. These are historical documents which for the time in which communication was primarily oral in nature, is very rare indeed. These are invaluable sources of authority in which to refer to.

do you really believe the heavens spoke to moses and abraham or anyone - and gave moses 10 commandments etched in stone by them, incidentally never seen by anyone than moses ... somehow found in all three desert religion bibles.

the point is: do you believe hillel or jesus ... the prevarication of this thread.

 

[shockedcanadian]

do you really believe the heavens spoke to moses and abraham or anyone - and gave moses 10 commandments etched in stone by them, incidentally never seen by anyone than moses ... somehow found in all three desert religion bibles.

the point is: do you believe hillel or jesus ... the prevarication of this thread.

I believe both can be true.

Just follow G-ds commands of which neither of these men were.