Zone1 The difference between Hillel and Jesus’ “Golden Rule”

[irosie91]

How do you really feel?

stymied again

 

[ding]

stymied again

Do you believe in the God of Abraham? Or do you have some doubts?

 

[irosie91]

Do you believe in the God of Abraham? Or do you have some doubts?

Of course I have some doubts----I am not even sure that mass times velocity is equal to momentum.

 

[ding]

Of course I have some doubts----I am not even sure that mass times velocity is equal to momentum.

Ok, that's fair. I think a lot of people have doubts. But do your doubts disqualify you from discussing acts of God? In other words do you doubt divine intervention has ever happened? Do you believe in providence? Or was that just embellishment on the part of the authors? Or are the authors capturing what they imagine God wants?

As to p = mv, you shouldn't have any doubts.

 

[onefour1]

Jesus was also taught from on high by his Father in Heaven. He only did that which his Father in Heaven would have him do. Jesus in his actions, was the supreme example of doing unto others. He suffered for each and every one of our sins for everyone that has ever lived or will live on this earth. He laid down his life that we all might find mercy and forgiveness from God for our sins.

 

[irosie91]

Ok, that's fair. I think a lot of people have doubts. But do your doubts disqualify you from discussing acts of God? In other words do you doubt divine intervention has ever happened? Do you believe in providence? Or was that just embellishment on the part of the authors? Or are the authors capturing what they imagine God wants?

As to p = mv, you shouldn't have any doubts.

I accept p = mv ----whenever I calculate ON THE FINAL EXAM

 

[ding]

I accept p = mv ----whenever I calculate ON THE FINAL EXAM

Not gonna show your cards, eh. Seems like a trend here. All I can say is beliefs not worth stating are beliefs not worth having.

 

[Lisa558]

Not gonna show your cards, eh. Seems like a trend here. All I can say is beliefs not worth stating are beliefs not worth having.

I believe…….I will have a glass of wine.

 

[Picaro]

He also, just barely, predates Rabbi Simon and the Zohar

Yes, by several decades, though. Rabbinical Judaism is a 2nd Century invention, a result of the failure of the Pharisees' Messiah Kokbha's Revolt; the 'Kabbalah' was another reaction. There were several more 'Messiahs' up through the Middle Ages.

 

[Picaro]

For those who don’t know, Jesus was a great admirer of Hillel and used his teachings in many of his own sermons. The most famous of all is The Golden Rule, which Jesus switched around to put it in the positive:

Hillel: “That which is hateful to you, do not do unto others.”
Jesus: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

Which is easier to accomplish?

Elon Harvey - "Do unto others!" in Jewish, Christian, and Islamic Sources

There is a famous story found in the Talmud about a person who came to Hillel the Elder, the famous Jewish sage (d. 10 CE), and asked him to teach him "the entire Torah," i.e. all of Jewish law, in a nutshell. Hillel replied by invoking what is known as the Golden Rule, the notion that people

sites.google.com

Leviticus 19:18. Moses. The written Torah.

Christ said: “The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these” (Mk. 12:29-31). He combines two quotes, Leviticus 19:18 and Deuteronomy 6,4,5. Given their importance, “On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Mt. 22:40), perhaps we might expect these two quotes to be at the centre of chiasms in their respective passages in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. But this does not appear to be the case. However …

LEVITICUS 19:12-18 AND DEUTERONOMY 6:4-13:

LEVITICUS 19 / DEUTERONOMY 5,6.

On the theme which Joe raised (see his comment on Joshua 1:5-9) of chiasms straddling books, below is a related example although it involves two separate passages within two books rather than at th…

www.chiasmusxchange.com

Comment:

JLB

August 13, 2015 at 7:48 pm


The speeches seem to answer one another! Also, interestingly, in the first chiasm the part from Leviticus is part of the main body of the law whereas the part from Deuteronomy is more like an introductory speech. In the second it seems to be the other way round. Perhaps this could point to a larger scale chiasm across the two books?
The Sermon on The Mount in Mathew compared with the chiasm in Leviticus.
AI Overview
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A "chiasm" in the Sermon on the Mount, when compared to Leviticus, refers to the literary structure where Jesus' teachings often mirror and expand upon the Old Testament Law, particularly from Leviticus, by presenting a deeper, more internalized interpretation of the commandments, with a repeating pattern of ideas that are presented in reverse order, creating a symmetrical structure that emphasizes key themes and contrasts between outward actions and inner motives; essentially, Jesus is showing how the Law should be lived not just outwardly, but also with a pure heart and intention.


Key points about the chiasm in the Sermon on the Mount and Leviticus:

• Structure:
  A chiasm is like a mirror image, where the first part of a passage is mirrored in the second part, with ideas presented in reverse order.
  

• Example:
  In the Beatitudes (Matthew 5:3-12), the first and last blessings are about "blessed are the poor in spirit" and "blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness," which can be seen as a chiasm, as both focus on inner character despite outward circumstances.
  
  
• Emphasis on Inner Motivation:
  By using this structure, Jesus highlights the importance of not just following the letter of the law, but also the spirit behind it, addressing the heart and intentions behind actions, which is often seen as a contrast to the more outward-focused interpretations of the Law in Leviticus.
  

How to analyze a chiasm in the Sermon on the Mount:

• Identify key themes: Look for recurring ideas or concepts within the Sermon.
  

• Observe the order of presentation: Notice how these themes are presented in the beginning and end of a passage, with similar concepts appearing in reverse order.
  
  
• Compare with Leviticus: Analyze how Jesus' teachings relate to the corresponding laws in Leviticus, often showing a deeper interpretation of the same principles.

do a search on 'Chiasm Sermon on the Mount Levitucus'

 

[irosie91]

Not gonna show your cards, eh. Seems like a trend here. All I can say is beliefs not worth stating are beliefs not worth having.

Did you invent that ^^^ little limerick all by yourself?

 

[Votto]

For the most part, Jesus preached traditional Jewish concepts, sometimes with a “twist.” From a Jewish point of view, I don’t think he was all that different from many who came before or after: a bit of rabble-rouser, but still a traditional Jew, who espoused Jewish teachings.

I’m not even sure that he said not to keep kosher.

Perhaps they are just universal truths

"One should never do wrong in return, nor mistreat any man, no matter how one has been mistreated by him"

"Do not do to others what angers you if done to you by others"

Socrates.

 

[irosie91]

For the most part, Jesus preached traditional Jewish concepts, sometimes with a “twist.” From a Jewish point of view, I don’t think he was all that different from many who came before or after: a bit of rabble-rouser, but still a traditional Jew, who espoused Jewish teachings.

I’m not even sure that he said not to keep kosher.

He didn't Paul---who never met him had an hypnagogic hallucination
in which someone told him it is ok to eat lizards. Paul's parents were
Greek----he probably missed mom's cooking

 

[shockedcanadian]

For those who don’t know, Jesus was a great admirer of Hillel and used his teachings in many of his own sermons. The most famous of all is The Golden Rule, which Jesus switched around to put it in the positive:

Hillel: “That which is hateful to you, do not do unto others.”
Jesus: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

Which is easier to accomplish?

Elon Harvey - "Do unto others!" in Jewish, Christian, and Islamic Sources

There is a famous story found in the Talmud about a person who came to Hillel the Elder, the famous Jewish sage (d. 10 CE), and asked him to teach him "the entire Torah," i.e. all of Jewish law, in a nutshell. Hillel replied by invoking what is known as the Golden Rule, the notion that people

sites.google.com

It is really interesting that this was posted albeit a few mo nths ago as I was specifically reading the Hillel quote from the Talmud today when a convert approached him about converting as he "stood on one leg" (after being rejected by another well known rabbi, I forget his name now). His response was as you mentioned and he also followed it up with "all else (in the Torah) is commentary. Now go and study".

 

[irosie91]

It is really interesting that this was posted albeit a few mo ths ago as I specifically read the Hillel quote from the Talmud today when a convert approached him about converting as he "stood on one leg". His response was as you mentioned and he also followed it up with "all else (in the Torah) is commentary. Now go and study".

for the record, Hillel lived the second part of his life in Jerusalem---
was WELL KNOWN and virtually a household hero, quoted left
and right----he died about the time Jesus was born. Jesus probably
knew his "sayings" from his mom. He is the progenitor of the
Pharisee POV

 

[shockedcanadian]

for the record, Hillel lived the second part of his life in Jerusalem---
was WELL KNOWN and virtually a household hero, quoted left
and right----he died about the time Jesus was born. Jesus probably
knew his "sayings" from his mom. He is the progenitor of the
Pharisee POV

The fact that he is prominently featured in the Talmud illustrates just how respected his opinion was.

 

[Picaro]

Perhaps they are just universal truths

Indeed. Just because certain themes run across several cultures and timelines doesn't mean they all originated in the same place. 'Great Flood' stories are another example, as are 'dragons' and 'giant animals'. Most probably developed independently for the most part, i.e. 'hard wired' into humans, which is likely the case with religion. It exists for a reason and serves a purpose. Some do a lot better job than others re society; even Hegel acknowledges that.

 

[BreezeWood]

Hillel: “That which is hateful to you, do not do unto others.”
Jesus: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

Which is easier to accomplish?

really, who does hateful onto others that would adhere or heed counseling - not to ... sad commentary for who they associated with, hillel.

- evidence jesus had no knowledge of hillel - and judaisms attempt to downplay and take credit against the role of jesus during the 1st century events. 558.

 

[Lisa558]

He didn't Paul---who never met him had an hypnagogic hallucination
in which someone told him it is ok to eat lizards. Paul's parents were
Greek----he probably missed mom's cooking

Or….Paul just told people they don’t have to keep kosher anymore if they convert to his new religion to make it more appealing.

 

[Picaro]

Or….Paul just told people they don’t have to keep kosher anymore if they convert to his new religion to make it more appealing.

Actually they only excluded Gentiles from the whole kosher thing.