The Bible Tells Us When Jesus Returns - Between Tisha B'Av and Day of Atonement 2029

[Parture]

The universe is 13.8 billion years old (Gen. 1.1). Man has only been God-conscious since 4004 BC (Gen. 1.26), not 40,000 years. God breathed in the breath of life, directly creating man's spirit, and when it made contact with the body of Pre-Endemic, Pre-Adamic men (who cease to exist), many became a living soul with both a body and a spirit.

Genesis 1.1 doesn't say the Earth is 13.8 billion years old, you lied. And there's no mention of man existing before Adam. You're just making shit up (or repeating what you were told).

You haven't given a good reason for Jesus to enter His creation later than He did. I think it was the perfect time under Roman persecution. I am glad these past many centuries were after the cross to show mankind the glory of His Church. If Christianity did not exist, mankind would have destroyed itself long ago. It is the restraining power of the Holy Spirit that keeps things in check.

Things have been in check since the Roman days? You are nuts. Jesus appeared when he did because that's when the Hellenized Jews cobbled it together from tradition, mythology, folklore and Greek thought, moving away from hard line OT literalism.

It doesn't have to say 13.8 but agrees with 1.1 perfectly created. I never said man existed before Adam. You just don't understand gap restoration. We are in the mystery age of the Church. The Church is the leading conscience on the planet today without which the world would have ended. People like you would have killed each other off by now. There is nothing Hellenized about Christ.

 

[Parture]

The evidence was already given which you did not refute. I explained how the MFA works.

You demonstrated how BS works.

You demonstrated how to shut your mind down like a zombie for Satan.

 

[Iceweasel]

The evidence was already given which you did not refute. I explained how the MFA works.

You demonstrated how BS works.

You demonstrated how to shut your mind down like a zombie for Satan.

You can't answer simple questions and just go into high speed spiritual jerk off mode instead.

 

[Parture]

The papyri are dated within a generation of the Apostles. John was still alive 95 AD. These papyri are more than just one sentence. Sometimes they are chapters, books, or just a few paragraphs. Daniel B. Wallace has a whole manuscript recently, and some more papyri, found from the late 1st century. You can quote the early church fathers quoting all the verses from the NT except 11 verses. Obviously what they are quoting came before their quoting it. Nothing in antiquity has sources so close to their events as do we have for the NT. It also depends where you calculate a generation from. Since John wrote Revelation 95 AD then someone who is 10 years old at the time will be within a generation in 180 AD. Nobody in antiquity has still surviving papyri so close to their events. The Bible holds the highest standards. So according to you then Plato, Aristotle, Julius Caesar and Tiberius never existed. Nobody takes your view. No historian gives you any respect.

If the papyri are dated " to within a generation of the Apostles", then you admit that nothing exists from the hand of the actual Apostles. Good, That's progress.

The reason there is no surviving papyri from the middle of the 1st century and earlier is simply because they don't get preserved. That's why you can't find any papyri from anyone in antiquity for a good 300 to 500 years after, except for Jesus which was within a generation. And even closer than that for Paul's travels in the 50s and 60s.

So there's no surviving papyri during the time of the actual events, but there's some from 150 years after that? That makes no sense. The real reason that there's no recording of events when they happened is because those events never happened. Much more likely.

The earliest still surviving papyri is about 80 or 90 AD which is 20 or 30 years after they were written at the latest 60 AD as the Apostles died in the Neronian persecutions 65 AD. And Revelation was written 95 AD by John so some papyri that still survived was when he was still alive . For anyone else in antiquity you would have to go back hundreds of years for the earliest surviving papyri. Jesus is the most documented person in antiquity, even so much so, He has more sources for Him than any 10 figures combined. So if you want to deny Him you have to deny Aristotle, Julius Caesar, Plato, but I don't know any sane position who would do that. So you see you have a double standard and that's how I know you are being unethical. It makes sense to me that since the church fathers quoted all the verses of the NT except for 11 verses that what they were quoting came before them.

Do you have a link to these fragments? And I agree that it's possible that a guy named Jesus was preaching in the area at that time, in fact, I've read that there were several guys named jesus preaching around that time, lol. Your Jesus might be the most documented dude in history, but what's written in the bible and attributed to him is written after the facts and hearsay.

I am glad you couldn't find a naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings.

 

[sealybobo]

So Jews are all condemned?

No there are many Jews who receive understanding of Christ Jesus
and accept Salvation. Peter Loth, his friend who do spiritual healing
ministry in Houston Irvin and Olivia Reiner, and our friend Juda Myer
and others are Jews who have received Christ Jesus as completing and fulfilling the laws.

Jews are not excluded.

Only people who cannot forgive and block the process
are excluding themselves from spiritual healing and heavenly peace
in the Kingdom of God as one with all others joined in Christ or by perfect Conscience.

Christians who cannot forgive
Jews who cannot forgive
Muslims or Atheists or Buddhist who cannot forgive

The key is to what degree we forgive.
The more we forgive the more u nified we become with all other
people as children of God, as one humanity.

Our affiliations and tribe is part of our identity
and how we organize, but forgiveness and fear
is what causes us to either be divided against ourselves
or united as one regardless of our tribal affiliations.

Understand why you are not a Christian. If you claim nobody is going to Hell forever, you are not a Christian, because that is part of the gospel. If you reject Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Trinity, you are not a Christian, so you are going to Hell. Jesus said unless you confess who He truly is, He will deny you be fore the Father in Heaven (Matt. 10.32,33). If you reject Jesus resurrected Himself the 3rd day, you are not a Christian, for that is part of the gospel. If you believe most people are saved, you are not a Christian, because that is not the "little flock" (Luke 12.32). If you reject the Jesus who returns to reign on earth over the nations for 1000 years with his Overcomers in the 3rd Temple, you are not a Christian, for this is His second coming. If you believe there are more than 66 books to God's word, you are not Christian as per Rev. 22.18,19.

Where are you getting that I am rejecting anything especially Jesus in the Trinity?

I believe that God/Christ Jesus/and the Holy Spirit are universal for all humanity.

I don't deny any of this, where are you getting these fearful accusations?

Understand why you are not a Christian. If you reject Jesus existed before time and space Who created all things, you are not a Christian. If you claim nobody is going to Hell forever, you are not a Christian, because that is part of the gospel. If you reject Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Trinity, you are not a Christian, so you are going to Hell. Jesus said unless you confess who He truly is, He will deny you be fore the Father in Heaven (Matt. 10.32,33). If you reject Jesus resurrected Himself the 3rd day, you are not a Christian, for that is part of the gospel. If you believe most people are saved, you are not a Christian, because that is not the "little flock" (Luke 12.32). If you reject the Jesus who returns to reign on earth over the nations for 1000 years with his Overcomers in the 3rd Temple, you are not a Christian, for this is His second coming. If you believe there are more than 66 books to God's word, you are not Christian as per Rev. 22.18,19

I didn't say "most people are saved"
Most people LIKE YOU can't forgive so that blocks full entrance into heaven.

the path of destruction is broad with people
LIKE YOU saying I am right you are wrong

the gate of righteousness is narrow where people agree in Christ

So first we form agreements in Christ
then we correct all the issues and remove the unforgiveness
and then all people who receive this understanding
this forgiveness and correction in Christ join in Salvation

I would AGREE with you that most people are
at war and in conflict stuck in unforgiveness and
repeated cycles of hell

Just because most people go through this
doesn't mean Christ cannot save all people through forgiveness
when we get tired of putting each other through hell!

People are so designed to be self-serving
they WANT To be free from suffering and WANT freedom and peace

So by the very free will, conscience and reason God gave us
where the right choices lead to peace and satisfaction
with the wrong choices lead to pain and suffering
EVENTUALLY people discover forgiveness and healing and choose that instead

When they are tired of going through hell

Why do you come up with the conclusion that an eternal god created the Cosmos? Why can't the cosmos be eternal? Just take god out of the equation. No need for one. We know how and when the big bang started. We may have come out of a black hole. Inside a black hole is another universe, and so on and so on. Did you see the Cosmos yet? There are billions of suns in our galaxy. There are billions of galaxies in our observable universe. There might be an infinate number of universes.
What do you know? Of the 13.5 billion years of our universe, we've only been aware for 40,000 years. We've only begun to know who we are and were we are in the universe. We'd have known 2000 years earlier if not for superstition, religions, gods, churches, super natural thinking, mysticism.

I already said why. If the cosmos has an infinite regress of cause and effects, then you would have had an eternity to come into being before now, so by that definition, you would have already happened. Therefore, nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated. This uncreated Creator is whom we call God.

Even if there was an infinite regress of infinite universes, the same problem occurs, because you would have had an eternity to come into being before now, so you should have already happened.

The universe is 13.8 billion years old (Gen. 1.1). Man has only been God-conscious since 4004 BC (Gen. 1.26), not 40,000 years. God breathed in the breath of life, directly creating man's spirit, and when it made contact with the body of Pre-Endemic, Pre-Adamic men (who cease to exist), many became a living soul with both a body and a spirit.

You haven't given a good reason for Jesus to enter His creation later than He did. I think it was the perfect time under Roman persecution. I am glad these past many centuries were after the cross to show mankind the glory of His Church. If Christianity did not exist, mankind would have destroyed itself long ago. It is the restraining power of the Holy Spirit that keeps things in check.

That's exactly what the Greeks said about Zeus. If people weren't afraid of his punishment they would do bad things.

Can you prove to me or show me that If the cosmos has an infinite regress of cause and effects, then you would have already happened? Why is that? This to me in nonsense. I have only happened once and when I'm done that's the last of me. 200 billion years ago there were universes and cosmos but what makes me was burning in some distant star somewhere in the universe. Are you now talking about Hindu stuff where we are re incarnated? That's all man made up mumbo jumbo too. Get over it.

We were religious as far back as 223,000 years before Christ. Timeline of religion - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Even theists like Boss say that man has always been religious. He uses this fact as one of the reasons he believes in god. Because we always have. As soon as our brains were big enough to wonder how we got here, we have believed in god. Must be a god, right? How else? Well that was long before we had brains enough to know science and the freedom to question authority.

Again, why should I have already happened just because I have had an eternity to exist? Your great great great great grandfather existed when he did and you exist when you do. A dinosaur existed millions of years ago and there is no dino heaven.

When this planet is destroyed and our sun gone, we will be debris that gets sucked up into another sun/stars gravitational grip. One day that star will burn up too. All the stars you see will die eventually. Some of them will become black holes. It is possible that in another few trillion years another big bang will happen. Life will exist on millions of planets in the next galaxy just like it does in our galaxy now. We haven't found life elsewhere because we are too small, not advanced enough and have been holding ourselves back with wars and religion.

There is no fatal flaw to my theories. All of them are possible. Not proven, but possible. No shame in admitting we don't know. The only shame is to think you have all the answers. Religion is ignorance. Our primitive ancestors thought they needed it but turns out they were wrong.

 

[sealybobo]

If you are wise you leave that to God who is all knowing and we are not. I had no problem with how the website stated it because it left it open to the unsaved suffering torment. It didnt dictate about the unsaved. I agree hell is not annihilation either. So I agree with how the website and Bible say it.
But not how you try to say the same thing.

So this is what I see:
If what YOU MEAN is the same thing as in the Bible and on the website,
YES I agree with what you mean, and I agree that "hell is NOT annihilation"
and I agree the unsaved suffer in endless torment, etc.

I just didn't agree with how YOU said it which came across as something else,
as if YOU determine who is saved or not by whether they meet YOUR expectations,
and I object to you deciding that not God.

P.S. the reason I believe in Universal Salvation is God's plan
is that once people SEE that forgiveness heals the mind body spirit/soul and relations,
there is no reason NOT to accept forgiveness and healing.

I have atheist friends who even accept the help with healing.
So if even atheists want the healing that comes with forgiveness,
then eventually everyone will be saved. It is too compelling.
Nobody really wants to suffer, we are just afraid of change and control from outside.
and that can be overcome. So the process is going to win out and bring
healing and salvation from suffering to all. Even Buddha had visions of
a future Buddha or Spiritual Being coming and fulfilling the path to end all suffering.
So if even Buddhism points to the end times fulfilled in Christ Jesus, then all
witnesses point to the same truth that comes from the same source or one God.

You come across with a doubletongue because you said "universal salvation is God's plan" to imply everyone eventually gets saved including those who go to Hell and then said "I agree the unsaved suffer in endless torment." So which is it? I'm holding you to this because it is far more important than you realize.

You said, "it left it open to the unsaved suffering torment." Look at the question again.

Hell is the Place of Eternal Separation from God:

• Yes
• No
• Not sure

12. Do you agree Hell is not annihilation but the place of eternal torment for the unsaved after being resurrected to the Great White Throne for judgment (Rev. 19.20; 20.10,15)?

I don't see where it is left open. Eternal is eternal. They are forever separated from the saved. What the Holy Spirit is showing me is that those who go to Hell will never change their mind to reject God, just as those in the New Earth and New Heaven will never sin. And because you leave Hell open to be saved from, I am convinced you are not a Christian, because you will forever worship this false Christ of an Open Hell. Hell is permanently shut at the end of the millennial kingdom.

You said, "I just didn't agree with how YOU said it which came across as something else
as if YOU determine who is saved or not by whether they meet YOUR expectations,
and I object to you deciding that not God."

Nowhere do I determine who is saved apart from God, but it is the Holy Spirit who reveals to me in agreement with the word of God who is saved. You are just falsely accusing claiming it is me doing it alone, when it is not, but the Holy Spirit leading me to tell you that you are not a child of God because you are like Satan who would attempt to keep Hell Open forever.

Think how precarious your position is because you don't know and can't discern who is saved or not, to break bread with if saved and to lead to Christ if they are not saved going to Hell.

Buddha had not accepted Christ, for Buddhists are atheists. Think how evil that is for joe blow to say he is expecting a future himself. That is self-centered, self-involved, self-deluded. The teachings of Buddha do not agree with the teachings of the Bible and you will never be able to make them fit, for the exclusivity of Christ is a solidly proven fact.

I have always known you were not a Christian, because your words do not flow with the Holy Spirit. They are strange. God does not know you.

The ancient Greeks believed that there were 3 levels of the afterlife. The heaven, the average place where most people go and then the burning hell. That makes more sense than Christianity.

In Christianity, good non christians go to hell to burn forever. People who were born and brainwashed into Islam just like you were born into your Christian society, burn in hell because they believe their fables over yours. In your world, people who don't believe an obviously corrupt church's unbelievable stories goes to burning hell.

But you go to heaven, just because you do believe the unbelievable story.

I agree with the ancient Greeks. You are no great person, so you would go to the middle after life. You certainly didn't do enough to become a god and go to heaven and you weren't Hitler so you won't burn in hell but you will go to the middle/average afterlife where most of us will end up. Hercules did enough to become a God. Did you? I don't think ignorance is a virtue.

 

[Parture]

That's exactly what the Greeks said about Zeus. If people weren't afraid of his punishment they would do bad things.

But the Bible teaches salvation is not by works doing good or bad things.

Can you prove to me or show me that If the cosmos has an infinite regress of cause and effects, then you would have already happened? Why is that? This to me in nonsense. I have only happened once and when I'm done that's the last of me. 200 billion years ago there were universes and cosmos but what makes me was burning in some distant star somewhere in the universe. Are you now talking about Hindu stuff where we are re incarnated? That's all man made up mumbo jumbo too. Get over it.

You're the one alleging an infinite regress of cause and effects so that's an eternity to come into being before now. You can't make up some rule and then not abide in it. There is no evidence the universe is older than 13.8 billion years. The Bible says your body is formed from dust (Gen. 2.7) of the stars over 13.8 billion years. Hindus are going to Hell with you. Reincarnation is false.

We were religious as far back as 223,000 years before Christ. Timeline of religion - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

There was no God-conscious people before Adam 4004 BC. What you are talking about is what is called pre-Adamic men in the pre-Endemic period in which when they died they would cease to exist. From Adam on nobody ceases to exist, because it would be evil to give you God-consciousness then allow you to cease to exist.

Even theists like Boss say that man has always been religious. He uses this fact as one of the reasons he believes in god. Because we always have. As soon as our brains were big enough to wonder how we got here, we have believed in god. Must be a god, right? How else? Well that was long before we had brains enough to know science and the freedom to question authority.

The more we know scientifically, the greater the appreciation that infinite regress is impossible. Scientists are often Christian. Why shut your mind down to the big bang's cause?

Again, why should I have already happened just because I have had an eternity to exist? Your great great great great grandfather existed when he did and you exist when you do. A dinosaur existed millions of years ago and there is no dino heaven.

You are the one saying there is an infinite regress, therefore you had an eternity to come into being before now. Don't make up silly rules and then not abide in their consequences.

When this planet is destroyed and our sun gone, we will be debris that gets sucked up into another sun/stars gravitational grip. One day that star will burn up too. All the stars you see will die eventually. Some of them will become black holes. It is possible that in another few trillion years another big bang will happen. Life will exist on millions of planets in the next galaxy just like it does in our galaxy now. We haven't found life elsewhere because we are too small, not advanced enough and have been holding ourselves back with wars and religion.

The Bible teaches we whom are saved will be in the New City with no need of the sun. The unsaved such as yourself will be in Hell, a dimension God created. We know there are 10 dimensions. It is conceivable you will be in one of those dimensions called Hell. Life does not exist on another planet because we observe 800 variables for life when multiplied together, there is not enough planets in the universe.

There is no fatal flaw to my theories. All of them are possible. Not proven, but possible. No shame in admitting we don't know. The only shame is to think you have all the answers. Religion is ignorance. Our primitive ancestors thought they needed it but turns out they were wrong.

There is shame in claiming you don't know when the evidence is given and you shut your mind down. Religion is the way to God through Christ alone who created you and no other name under heaven by which one can be saved. Since you don't want to be reconciled with your creator because you love your sin nature too much, God will afford you that free choice to eternally separate yourself. Free will is not truly free if you don't have this free choice.

 

[Parture]

The ancient Greeks believed that there were 3 levels of the afterlife. The heaven, the average place where most people go and then the burning hell. That makes more sense than Christianity.

That doesn't make sense why you would have an average place. You are either redeemed or not for heaven or hell. What Greeks teach, therefore, is salvation by works, complete opposite to Christianity.

In Christianity, good non christians go to hell to burn forever. People who were born and brainwashed into Islam just like you were born into your Christian society, burn in hell because they believe their fables over yours. In your world, people who don't believe an obviously corrupt church's unbelievable stories goes to burning hell.

It doesn't matter how good you are compared to an infinitely great God, your works are like drops in an ocean compared to God's works. Nobody in my family is a Christian, I never went to church, and got saved at 33. You are not born into a faith as that violates free will. People can look at the idols worshiped around them and reject them to believe in the God of the mountains and stars which inextricably leads to Christ. Since Jesus is the most documented person in antiquity then the historical Jesus is not a fable. Is Aristotle a fable? Is Plato a fable? Is Julius Caesar a fable? Surely you jest. Since you want to be eternally separated from your Creator so you shall be. That place is called Hell. You're a bad guy.

But you go to heaven, just because you do believe the unbelievable story.

Since you can't disprove the proof, you're without excuse.

I agree with the ancient Greeks. You are no great person, so you would go to the middle after life. You certainly didn't do enough to become a god and go to heaven and you weren't Hitler so you won't burn in hell but you will go to the middle/average afterlife where most of us will end up. Hercules did enough to become a God. Did you? I don't think ignorance is a virtue.

God said there are no gods before Him, beside Him, or after Him. Quite unlike Greek thought. Salvation is determined by how you respond to Jesus in this life. There is no evidence for the mythical gods like we have for Jesus multiply attested in various group settings.

 

[sealybobo]

That's exactly what the Greeks said about Zeus. If people weren't afraid of his punishment they would do bad things.

But the Bible teaches salvation is not by works doing good or bad things.

Can you prove to me or show me that If the cosmos has an infinite regress of cause and effects, then you would have already happened? Why is that? This to me in nonsense. I have only happened once and when I'm done that's the last of me. 200 billion years ago there were universes and cosmos but what makes me was burning in some distant star somewhere in the universe. Are you now talking about Hindu stuff where we are re incarnated? That's all man made up mumbo jumbo too. Get over it.

You're the one alleging an infinite regress of cause and effects so that's an eternity to come into being before now. You can't make up some rule and then not abide in it. There is no evidence the universe is older than 13.8 billion years. The Bible says your body is formed from dust (Gen. 2.7) of the stars over 13.8 billion years. Hindus are going to Hell with you. Reincarnation is false.

We were religious as far back as 223,000 years before Christ. Timeline of religion - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

There was no God-conscious people before Adam 4004 BC. What you are talking about is what is called pre-Adamic men in the pre-Endemic period in which when they died they would cease to exist. From Adam on nobody ceases to exist, because it would be evil to give you God-consciousness then allow you to cease to exist.

Even theists like Boss say that man has always been religious. He uses this fact as one of the reasons he believes in god. Because we always have. As soon as our brains were big enough to wonder how we got here, we have believed in god. Must be a god, right? How else? Well that was long before we had brains enough to know science and the freedom to question authority.

The more we know scientifically, the greater the appreciation that infinite regress is impossible. Scientists are often Christian. Why shut your mind down to the big bang's cause?

Again, why should I have already happened just because I have had an eternity to exist? Your great great great great grandfather existed when he did and you exist when you do. A dinosaur existed millions of years ago and there is no dino heaven.

You are the one saying there is an infinite regress, therefore you had an eternity to come into being before now. Don't make up silly rules and then not abide in their consequences.

When this planet is destroyed and our sun gone, we will be debris that gets sucked up into another sun/stars gravitational grip. One day that star will burn up too. All the stars you see will die eventually. Some of them will become black holes. It is possible that in another few trillion years another big bang will happen. Life will exist on millions of planets in the next galaxy just like it does in our galaxy now. We haven't found life elsewhere because we are too small, not advanced enough and have been holding ourselves back with wars and religion.

The Bible teaches we whom are saved will be in the New City with no need of the sun. The unsaved such as yourself will be in Hell, a dimension God created. We know there are 10 dimensions. It is conceivable you will be in one of those dimensions called Hell. Life does not exist on another planet because we observe 800 variables for life when multiplied together, there is not enough planets in the universe.

There is no fatal flaw to my theories. All of them are possible. Not proven, but possible. No shame in admitting we don't know. The only shame is to think you have all the answers. Religion is ignorance. Our primitive ancestors thought they needed it but turns out they were wrong.

There is shame in claiming you don't know when the evidence is given and you shut your mind down. Religion is the way to God through Christ alone who created you and no other name under heaven by which one can be saved. Since you don't want to be reconciled with your creator because you love your sin nature too much, God will afford you that free choice to eternally separate yourself. Free will is not truly free if you don't have this free choice.

You put too much trust in the writings of the ancients. And I love it how you guys now say the bible agrees the universe is 13.5 billion years old. If that's true, why did that fight that idea for so long? Why the 6500 year old argument? Now you claim the bible always said we were that old? I've got to check that out.

 

[Parture]

You put too much trust in the writings of the ancients. And I love it how you guys now say the bible agrees the universe is 13.5 billion years old. If that's true, why did that fight that idea for so long? Why the 6500 year old argument? Now you claim the bible always said we were that old? I've got to check that out.

You don't put enough trust in evidence. There are certain facts that can be gleaned from ancient texts. Don't throw it all out. The Bible has always agreed with the universe 13.8 billion years, for does not Gen. 1.1 say God created perfectly? I never fought this fact. I know many Christians in history believed in gap restoration, so just because people misread the Bible shouldn't be a reason for you to reject it. I don't know what 6500 old argument you are talking about. God-conscious people did not exist 6500 years ago.

 

[sealybobo]

The ancient Greeks believed that there were 3 levels of the afterlife. The heaven, the average place where most people go and then the burning hell. That makes more sense than Christianity.

That doesn't make sense why you would have an average place. You are either redeemed or not for heaven or hell. What Greeks teach, therefore, is salvation by works, complete opposite to Christianity.

In Christianity, good non christians go to hell to burn forever. People who were born and brainwashed into Islam just like you were born into your Christian society, burn in hell because they believe their fables over yours. In your world, people who don't believe an obviously corrupt church's unbelievable stories goes to burning hell.

It doesn't matter how good you are compared to an infinitely great God, your works are like drops in an ocean compared to God's works. Nobody in my family is a Christian, I never went to church, and got saved at 33. You are not born into a faith as that violates free will. People can look at the idols worshiped around them and reject them to believe in the God of the mountains and stars which inextricably leads to Christ. Since Jesus is the most documented person in antiquity then the historical Jesus is not a fable. Is Aristotle a fable? Is Plato a fable? Is Julius Caesar a fable? Surely you jest. Since you want to be eternally separated from your Creator so you shall be. That place is called Hell. You're a bad guy.

But you go to heaven, just because you do believe the unbelievable story.

Since you can't disprove the proof, you're without excuse.

I agree with the ancient Greeks. You are no great person, so you would go to the middle after life. You certainly didn't do enough to become a god and go to heaven and you weren't Hitler so you won't burn in hell but you will go to the middle/average afterlife where most of us will end up. Hercules did enough to become a God. Did you? I don't think ignorance is a virtue.

God said there are no gods before Him, beside Him, or after Him. Quite unlike Greek thought. Salvation is determined by how you respond to Jesus in this life. There is no evidence for the mythical gods like we have for Jesus multiply attested in various group settings.

I think you are even dumber if you were not brainwashed from birth and you actually fell for the Christian bullshit as an adult. Usually Christianity gets guys like you in your 20's but who knows when or why people "find the lord". I can just imagine the hell you were going through at age 33 when you bought into that religion. Were you a scum bag? Did you hit rock bottom? Or did you just take that long to start thinking about it and Christianity sounded good to you. That's how a lot of blacks in America get sucked into Islam.

I was 33 when I was finally starting to come out of the brainwashing. Never really 100% bought into Christianity. Not even as a little child. I believed in God but not any organized religion for a long time. Even as a young baby I had all kinds of problems with the bible stories. How did you reconcile that? Cognitive Dissonance?

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Parture
Regarding Buddhism and how God/Holy Spirit showed me
that the laws are made in the image of God

A. We know that God manifests
as God the Father Source of Life Creation Universal truth and laws
Jesus Christ the Son or Word of God or the laws/justice of God made incarnate
and the Holy Spirit is where Healing Grace is received to bring peace
and Comfort to humanity on the earthly plane

B. We know that there are Two Great commandments
and a New Commandment that correspond to the Holy Trinity
1. To Love GOD with all our heart mind and soul
or love of GOD
3. To love our neighbor as ourselves
or love of humanity that brings peace on earth by the Holy Spirit
2. To love one another as Christ Jesus loves us
or the love of CHRIST that JOINS
the love of God with love of man as ONE
so this is Unconditional love of God
and NOT the materialistic love of man
but the Godly perfect love of Christ instead of material rewards of man

In Buddhism there are the three refuges
the Buddha the Dharma and the Sangha
A. Buddha which means perfect wisdom or knowledge
so again Wisdom is a name of GOD,
knowing GOD is perfect awareness
so this level aligns with GOD
Dharma means the spiritual laws
We know that Christ fulfills the laws
so this level is what aligns with Jesus.
The laws of karma or cause and effect
are fulfilled by Perfect Justice that Jesus embodies
Sangha means the community or order
so this is the level of the church body
that collectively means all humanity
which we know corresponds to the
Holy Spirit that works through and unites
the people as one body of Christ

So receiving Christ means understanding
that God/Christ/Holy Spirit fulfills the
Buddha/Dharma/Sangha as one.

The natural laws reflect God in the same
way that man is made in the image of God.
We are body/mind/spirit or physical/mental/spiritual

and the Trinity in every religion REFLECTS
these same three levels:
* of individual or physical
* psychological level of conscience or laws governing relations
* and collectively the whole of society or humanity

Curiously, Buddhism had two promises or principles
that correspond to the TWO great commandments
1. to develop perfect WISDOM
2. to develop perfect COMPASSION

Clearly these two natural laws align with the
two great commandments that Jesus said
ALL the laws and prophets hang on.
So this includes Buddha as a prophet similar
to Moses who gave these same two laws
which Jesus fulfills.

Wisdom is another role or name of GOD
where the references to God as Wisdom
in the Bible outnumber references to
God as heavenly father by 10 to 1

Compassion aligns with
loving our neighbor as ourselves
(though even broader where you
even care about the whole creation
that supports life for people and
have compassion for all life that affects us)

What I find missing is one more
principle that should have something
to do with the level of the Sangha
or Holy Spirit.

I am guessing it would be
developing perfect communication
or perfect community relations.
Not sure but I believe that
as more Buddhist and Christians
align these principles and see
where they connect in Christ,
then the final principle will be revealed
to complete the teachings while
reconciling with Christianity.

Buddhism is one of the ways that
the natural laws of God are given,
similar to how Moses gave the laws
to the Jews and the Jews later receive
Christ and fulfill the laws. The Buddhists
are given natural laws, and so are the
Constitutionalists and Christ will fulfill
those as well since natural laws come from God.

Buddha was a man who was fat not God so that does not agree with the God the Father in the Trinity. Buddha rejected the Messiah.

You are looking and judging by material appearances.

He did teach there would be a last Buddha or spiritual being in the future. So people who.interpret that as Christ or the Holy Spirit are not denying Jesus. It depends on the interpretation if people are rejecting or receiving Jesus.

 

[sealybobo]

You put too much trust in the writings of the ancients. And I love it how you guys now say the bible agrees the universe is 13.5 billion years old. If that's true, why did that fight that idea for so long? Why the 6500 year old argument? Now you claim the bible always said we were that old? I've got to check that out.

You don't put enough trust in evidence. There are certain facts that can be gleaned from ancient texts. Don't throw it all out. The Bible has always agreed with the universe 13.8 billion years, for does not Gen. 1.1 say God created perfectly? I never fought this fact. I know many Christians in history believed in gap restoration, so just because people misread the Bible shouldn't be a reason for you to reject it. I don't know what 6500 old argument you are talking about. God-conscious people did not exist 6500 years ago.

I don't see anything in Gen 1.1 about 13.5 billion years old. Bottom line is the religion you believe was made up and a long time ago their story was that we were 6500 years old. They fought the idea that we were older than that and that the sun didn't revolve around the fixed earth. Yes my friend the people who invented your religion thought the earth was fixed in one place, didn't move, and the sun revolved around us. Maybe you need to edit your bibles again to fix that?

And Gen 1.1 is wrong. In the beginning the universe was created, but stars took billions of years to form. Our sun didn't form yet. For BILLIONS of years the first stars formed and planets formed around them. But not our planet or sun yet. Not for billions of years. Our sun is a mediocre star and our planet is a small planet in our solar system

You saying there is no life on other planets? Harvard physicist Paul Horowitz boldly stated "Intelligent life in the universe? Guaranteed. Intelligent life in our galaxy? So overwhelmingly likely that I'd give you almost any odds you'd like."

And that doesn't count the "unintelligent life" on planets. That means planets that don't have animals evolved to our level but maybe they are as smart as dolphins, whales, monkeys, dogs, crows. Or planets that just have 1 and/or 2 cell organisms that haven't even evolved eyes yet.

 

[sealybobo]

The scientist who discovered the age of the Earth also helped end the use of lead in gasoline and other products in the United States. Who fought him? The same corporations who today say global warming is a hoax. The same corporations and scientists they employ who said cigarettes don't cause cancer.

Bottom line is at the time Clair Patterson discovered the earths age, Gen1.1 was not saying the earth was 13.5 billion years old. Christianity was saying 6500 years old. Don't try to flip that shit now Manure or Parture.

 

[Parture]

I think you are even dumber if you were not brainwashed from birth and you actually fell for the Christian bullshit as an adult. Usually Christianity gets guys like you in your 20's but who knows when or why people "find the lord". I can just imagine the hell you were going through at age 33 when you bought into that religion. Were you a scum bag? Did you hit rock bottom? Or did you just take that long to start thinking about it and Christianity sounded good to you. That's how a lot of blacks in America get sucked into Islam.

Brainwashed from birth? We were all brainwashed from birth for we were all born into sin. God often uses trials and tribulations to lead people to Him; other times not. There is no set way of being saved to receive revelation from God. I had everything going for me, was rich, but I just realized watching the struggles of someone else much like you that you were never satisfied in life, then I realized all things sum up in Christ. And I was saved. That was back in Jan. 2001. I have never been the same since and could never go back to being like you. To this day I have not been able to disprove the Minimal Facts Approach, nor can you; the difference is I give into reality, you remain delusionally hostile, independent and disobedient to your Creator just like the first God-conscious man did.

One way you can check if you are searching out God with all your heart and soul is to try to find a better proof than what God has provided in the NT. And you can't. That's how you know.

 

[emilynghiem]

You put too much trust in the writings of the ancients. And I love it how you guys now say the bible agrees the universe is 13.5 billion years old. If that's true, why did that fight that idea for so long? Why the 6500 year old argument? Now you claim the bible always said we were that old? I've got to check that out.

You don't put enough trust in evidence. There are certain facts that can be gleaned from ancient texts. Don't throw it all out. The Bible has always agreed with the universe 13.8 billion years, for does not Gen. 1.1 say God created perfectly? I never fought this fact. I know many Christians in history believed in gap restoration, so just because people misread the Bible shouldn't be a reason for you to reject it. I don't know what 6500 old argument you are talking about. God-conscious people did not exist 6500 years ago.

Buddha gave the laws similar to Moses giving the laws.
Jesus was always with God in Heaven even before incarnating later after the laws were given in advance of Jesus or Perfect Justice coming to fulfill them in later stages.

If you are wise you leave that to God who is all knowing and we are not. I had no problem with how the website stated it because it left it open to the unsaved suffering torment. It didnt dictate about the unsaved. I agree hell is not annihilation either. So I agree with how the website and Bible say it.
But not how you try to say the same thing.

So this is what I see:
If what YOU MEAN is the same thing as in the Bible and on the website,
YES I agree with what you mean, and I agree that "hell is NOT annihilation"
and I agree the unsaved suffer in endless torment, etc.

I just didn't agree with how YOU said it which came across as something else,
as if YOU determine who is saved or not by whether they meet YOUR expectations,
and I object to you deciding that not God.

P.S. the reason I believe in Universal Salvation is God's plan
is that once people SEE that forgiveness heals the mind body spirit/soul and relations,
there is no reason NOT to accept forgiveness and healing.

I have atheist friends who even accept the help with healing.
So if even atheists want the healing that comes with forgiveness,
then eventually everyone will be saved. It is too compelling.
Nobody really wants to suffer, we are just afraid of change and control from outside.
and that can be overcome. So the process is going to win out and bring
healing and salvation from suffering to all. Even Buddha had visions of
a future Buddha or Spiritual Being coming and fulfilling the path to end all suffering.
So if even Buddhism points to the end times fulfilled in Christ Jesus, then all
witnesses point to the same truth that comes from the same source or one God.

You come across with a doubletongue because you said "universal salvation is God's plan" to imply everyone eventually gets saved including those who go to Hell and then said "I agree the unsaved suffer in endless torment." So which is it? I'm holding you to this because it is far more important than you realize.

You said, "it left it open to the unsaved suffering torment." Look at the question again.

Hell is the Place of Eternal Separation from God:

• Yes
• No
• Not sure

12. Do you agree Hell is not annihilation but the place of eternal torment for the unsaved after being resurrected to the Great White Throne for judgment (Rev. 19.20; 20.10,15)?

I don't see where it is left open. Eternal is eternal. They are forever separated from the saved. What the Holy Spirit is showing me is that those who go to Hell will never change their mind to reject God, just as those in the New Earth and New Heaven will never sin. And because you leave Hell open to be saved from, I am convinced you are not a Christian, because you will forever worship this false Christ of an Open Hell. Hell is permanently shut at the end of the millennial kingdom.

You said, "I just didn't agree with how YOU said it which came across as something else
as if YOU determine who is saved or not by whether they meet YOUR expectations,
and I object to you deciding that not God."

Nowhere do I determine who is saved apart from God, but it is the Holy Spirit who reveals to me in agreement with the word of God who is saved. You are just falsely accusing claiming it is me doing it alone, when it is not, but the Holy Spirit leading me to tell you that you are not a child of God because you are like Satan who would attempt to keep Hell Open forever.

Think how precarious your position is because you don't know and can't discern who is saved or not, to break bread with if saved and to lead to Christ if they are not saved going to Hell.

Buddha had not accepted Christ, for Buddhists are atheists. Think how evil that is for joe blow to say he is expecting a future himself. That is self-centered, self-involved, self-deluded. The teachings of Buddha do not agree with the teachings of the Bible and you will never be able to make them fit, for the exclusivity of Christ is a solidly proven fact.

I have always known you were not a Christian, because your words do not flow with the Holy Spirit. They are strange. God does not know you.

The ancient Greeks believed that there were 3 levels of the afterlife. The heaven, the average place where most people go and then the burning hell. That makes more sense than Christianity.

In Christianity, good non christians go to hell to burn forever. People who were born and brainwashed into Islam just like you were born into your Christian society, burn in hell because they believe their fables over yours. In your world, people who don't believe an obviously corrupt church's unbelievable stories goes to burning hell.

But you go to heaven, just because you do believe the unbelievable story.

I agree with the ancient Greeks. You are no great person, so you would go to the middle after life. You certainly didn't do enough to become a god and go to heaven and you weren't Hitler so you won't burn in hell but you will go to the middle/average afterlife where most of us will end up. Hercules did enough to become a God. Did you? I don't think ignorance is a virtue.

sealybobo Actually many people blame the Greeks for mixing in the concept of Hades which they argue is not Biblical.
There are different levels or realms of heaven, so it makes sense there are different levels of hell.

Earthly hell is one level. Anyone who's been through war, nearly died and lost everything to drug addiction,
or got abused by a stalker or endured endless torture.

We could have several levels, including the purgatory process that is symbolic also.

I believe the point of all this is to try to AVOID the suffering.
Some people have had visions and visits either to heaven or to hell and reported the symbolic visions
and what it meant.

So there are many realms and levels, and the common factor is that
if we forgive and seek to correct and make amends, then we can get help not to end up in these vicious cycle.

My whole neighborhood has negative cursed energy and patterns from unforgiven conflicts
that have destroyed relations over and over. So that negative energy and especially the
occult, demons and satanic level sickness is what requires the prayers and authority of
Christ Jesus to overcome and cast out. It is just too concentrated and requires the
concentrated prayers united in Christ to overcome. So that is a level of hell that will not end.

Collectively all this ill will, retribution, war and suffering is what humans know of hell
in our conscious understanding. We can only symbolize what goes on beyond that level.

But there are people who have experienced visions to try to help people
take this seriously and do not waste their lives in selfishness and hatred
but really seek to rise above. Here I will post the link to some of these testimonies
people have used to teach people and inspire them to turn their lives around:
Testimonies - To Hell and Back

 

[Parture]

He did teach there would be a last Buddha or spiritual being in the future. So people who.interpret that as Christ or the Holy Spirit are not denying Jesus. It depends on the interpretation if people are rejecting or receiving Jesus.

Buddha is a fat man not a spiritual being. All that matters is Christ. If Jesus came on the scene in Buddha's day he would have rejected him. He is going to Hell. Your future fat Buddha is going to be what the Bible calls the Antichrist which is really Nero resurrected.

 

[Parture]

You put too much trust in the writings of the ancients. And I love it how you guys now say the bible agrees the universe is 13.5 billion years old. If that's true, why did that fight that idea for so long? Why the 6500 year old argument? Now you claim the bible always said we were that old? I've got to check that out.

You don't put enough trust in evidence. There are certain facts that can be gleaned from ancient texts. Don't throw it all out. The Bible has always agreed with the universe 13.8 billion years, for does not Gen. 1.1 say God created perfectly? I never fought this fact. I know many Christians in history believed in gap restoration, so just because people misread the Bible shouldn't be a reason for you to reject it. I don't know what 6500 old argument you are talking about. God-conscious people did not exist 6500 years ago.

I don't see anything in Gen 1.1 about 13.5 billion years old. Bottom line is the religion you believe was made up and a long time ago their story was that we were 6500 years old. They fought the idea that we were older than that and that the sun didn't revolve around the fixed earth. Yes my friend the people who invented your religion thought the earth was fixed in one place, didn't move, and the sun revolved around us. Maybe you need to edit your bibles again to fix that?

And Gen 1.1 is wrong. In the beginning the universe was created, but stars took billions of years to form. Our sun didn't form yet. For BILLIONS of years the first stars formed and planets formed around them. But not our planet or sun yet. Not for billions of years. Our sun is a mediocre star and our planet is a small planet in our solar system

You saying there is no life on other planets? Harvard physicist Paul Horowitz boldly stated "Intelligent life in the universe? Guaranteed. Intelligent life in our galaxy? So overwhelmingly likely that I'd give you almost any odds you'd like."

And that doesn't count the "unintelligent life" on planets. That means planets that don't have animals evolved to our level but maybe they are as smart as dolphins, whales, monkeys, dogs, crows. Or planets that just have 1 and/or 2 cell organisms that haven't even evolved eyes yet.

Gen. 1.1 God created perfectly. It took 13.8 billion years. This agrees.

 

[Parture]

The scientist who discovered the age of the Earth also helped end the use of lead in gasoline and other products in the United States. Who fought him? The same corporations who today say global warming is a hoax. The same corporations and scientists they employ who said cigarettes don't cause cancer.

Bottom line is at the time Clair Patterson discovered the earths age, Gen1.1 was not saying the earth was 13.5 billion years old. Christianity was saying 6500 years old. Don't try to flip that shit now Manure or Parture.

Most of these scientists were in Christ.

 

[emilynghiem]

The scientist who discovered the age of the Earth also helped end the use of lead in gasoline and other products in the United States. Who fought him? The same corporations who today say global warming is a hoax. The same corporations and scientists they employ who said cigarettes don't cause cancer.

Bottom line is at the time Clair Patterson discovered the earths age, Gen1.1 was not saying the earth was 13.5 billion years old. Christianity was saying 6500 years old. Don't try to flip that shit now Manure or Parture.

sealybobo No even the Jehovah's Witnesses actually agree and align with the more consistent interpretation
that the 6000 year timeline refers to stages of humanity particularly the Hebrew lineage under Mosaic Law.