Tax Cuts Steal Democracy

[The Derp]

Mr Trump plans to slash the US rate from 35% to 15% to get manufacturers to move work to the United States.

And it's paid for with a BAT that will end up spiking prices for consumers. So unless those companies start paying their workers more (in order to increase aggregate consumer demand), lowering the tax rate only makes those on the Board and the majority shareholders (who also sit on the Board) wealthy.

 

[The Derp]

100% stupid of course lower costs made thousands of corporations move to China so lower tax costs would have exactly the same affect

What you have failed to prove (and it's not just you, all Conservatives have this problem) is that lowering corporate income taxes will result in economic growth. That is simply not true. The average effective corporate tax rate is actually just 12.4%, which is 5% below what the average effective rate is for individuals. So if corporations are people then they should be taxed like people, no?

 

[The Derp]

I see so Ireland got it backwards and all the corporations that moved there didn't really move there it was actually a mirage???

They didn't relocate operations or production there, just their accounting in order to take advantage of the lower rate. But that didn't create jobs in Ireland or here. And the EU recently hit Apple with a big tax for trying to shirk their liability.

 

[The Derp]

ery very very simple. There was not enough support for it

How could that be the case? Conservatives, as you say, support it. The Republican Party has tried to do it 30 (not sure about this, but whatever) times. Is this like a repeat of Obamacare, where Conservatives hold impotent votes for political theater?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

ery very very simple. There was not enough support for it

How could that be the case?

??? Obviously if there was enough support for it the politicians would vote for it and succeed. If there is enough support for it and the politicians didn't vote for it then the electorate would elect new politicians who did vote for it.This is impossibly simple I know you are a liberal but even so you should be able to understand?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I see so Ireland got it backwards and all the corporations that moved there didn't really move there it was actually a mirage???

They didn't relocate operations or production there, just their accounting in order to take advantage of the lower rate. But that didn't create jobs in Ireland or here. And the EU recently hit Apple with a big tax for trying to shirk their liability.

The ACCI’s latest report into foreign direct investment shows that 700 US companies based in Ireland now employ 130,000 people.

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The list of major firms operating in the Republic includes Intel, Boston Scientific, Dell, Pfizer, Google, Hewlett Packard, Facebook and Johnson and Johnson.

Four years ago, there were just over 600 American companies based in Ireland, according to the country’s industrial development authority.

The report by Wall Street economist Joseph Quinlan revealed that even in 2013, the first year of a fragile economic recovery, American foreign direct investment rose by 42% to $37bn (£24m). In the same period, total US investment to Europe fell by 19% to $115bn (£75bn).

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

100% stupid of course lower costs made thousands of corporations move to China so lower tax costs would have exactly the same affect

What you have failed to prove (and it's not just you, all Conservatives have this problem) is that lowering corporate income taxes will result in economic growth. That is simply not true. The average effective corporate tax rate is actually just 12.4%, which is 5% below what the average effective rate is for individuals. So if corporations are people then they should be taxed like people, no?

Obviously corporations need money to grow and compete internationally the more money that is stolen from them the more they are impeded in their primary mission 1+1 = 2

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

100% stupid of course lower costs made thousands of corporations move to China so lower tax costs would have exactly the same affect

What you have failed to prove (and it's not just you, all Conservatives have this problem) is that lowering corporate income taxes will result in economic growth. That is simply not true. The average effective corporate tax rate is actually just 12.4%, which is 5% below what the average effective rate is for individuals. So if corporations are people then they should be taxed like people, no?

Corporations should not be taxed at all since it interferes with their primary mission which is to raise our standard of living at the fastest possible rate

Also the corporate tax cost is a cost like any other and is passed on to Consumer's so the only reason we have it is to pander to the pure economic ignorance of liberals.

 

[Skull Pilot]

so tell me if republicans really didn't want deficits how come every republican president in my life time has run a deficit

Very very simple Because there is more support for deficits than for making deficits illegal 1+1 = 2

so republicans are spineless and their so called principles mean nothing to them

Republicans and Democrats are politicians who logically figure it is smarter to stay in the middle where elections are decided and thus live to fight another day. Libertarians for example, are pure and stand only on principles and as a result they are very very impotent.hopefully you're beginning to understand this very very simple concept now?

like I said they care more about keeping their jobs and ringing up deficits and expanding government than they do about their so called small government principles

A politician is supposed to care about keeping his job that way he can continue to promote things that are important to him and his constituents you've already learned that libertarians stand only on principle and as a result are totally impotent. How many times do you have to learn this?

but they don't promote smaller government and balanced budgets do they?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Very very simple Because there is more support for deficits than for making deficits illegal 1+1 = 2

so republicans are spineless and their so called principles mean nothing to them

Republicans and Democrats are politicians who logically figure it is smarter to stay in the middle where elections are decided and thus live to fight another day. Libertarians for example, are pure and stand only on principles and as a result they are very very impotent.hopefully you're beginning to understand this very very simple concept now?

like I said they care more about keeping their jobs and ringing up deficits and expanding government than they do about their so called small government principles

A politician is supposed to care about keeping his job that way he can continue to promote things that are important to him and his constituents you've already learned that libertarians stand only on principle and as a result are totally impotent. How many times do you have to learn this?

but they don't promote smaller government and balanced budgets do they?

Obviously they do if there is enough support for it. Why is this so confusing for you isn't there anybody you can ask to explain it to you?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The average effective corporate tax rate is actually just 12.4%,no?

I'm not sure if that's calculated as 12% on profits or 12% profits minus losses? Most importantly though the way to drop your tax rate from 40% (State plus federal)down to 12.4% Is to move your corporation and jobs out of the country to lower tax jurisdictions. that is something so stupid that only Democrats would encourage it

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How much was state and federal spending on Ohio State reduced?

Significantly enough to spike tuition for in-state residents by 9% in 2002. This, as CBS in Cleveland states: The university also is dealing with a $13 million cut in state funding this year.

Ohio put a freeze on tuition costs for in-state residents in 2010. So for 8 years, tuition at Ohio state colleges and universities increased from $4,700 in 2002 to $10,000 by 2010.

Significantly enough to spike tuition for in-state residents by 9% in 2002. This, as CBS in Cleveland states: The university also is dealing with a $13 million cut in state funding this year.

The Bush tax cuts in 2001 forced Ohio to cut funding in 2002?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

so your point is that govt will naturally balance out one tax cut with another tax increase? And????????????

Doing so shifts the tax burden onto the middle and lower class. So income taxes are cut for those at the top, and to "pay for it" excise taxes are raised, which affects the middle class more. But even when Conservatives do that, they still run deficits and have shitty GDP growth. Kansas is the best example of that policy failure.

are we going to tell Ireland that all those businesses that moved there after the tax cut to 11% didn't really move there??

Not sure what you're saying, but you seem to be stuck in a 2010 time loop.

are we going to tell all those American corporations that moved offshore to tax haven countries that they really didn't move there, they only imagined they did??

Not sure what you're saying, but weren't they supposed to trickle-down? How come they don't?

Are we going to tell NYS to raise its taxes to attract businesses??

Well, cutting taxes doesn't seem to work.

So income taxes are cut for those at the top,

Bush cut income taxes for all.

and to "pay for it" excise taxes are raised, which affects the middle class more.

Which excise taxes did Bush raise?

But even when Conservatives do that, they still run deficits and have shitty GDP growth.

Obama raised taxes and had bigger deficits and shittier GDP growth.

 

[The Derp]

I'm not sure if that's calculated as 12% on profits or 12% profits minus losses?

It is the effective tax rate. And profits are revenues minus expenses, not profits minus expenses. The 12.4% is on profits, not revenues.

 

[The Derp]

Obviously if there was enough support for it the politicians would vote for it and succeed.

Ah...so you claim Republicans have tried consistently to do this when not in power. But once they get in power, suddenly they don't have the support? How's that work? Were all those votes just theater? Do they even believe in this stuff, or is it just posturing to score political points like the Obamacare repeal?

 

[The Derp]

The ACCI’s latest report into foreign direct investment shows that 700 US companies based in Ireland now employ 130,000 people.

So....that's just an average of 185 per company and would be considered a middling month of growth in our job market. In Obama's final month, 227,000 jobs were created. So how long has this Irish investment been going on? At least 5 years, right? So that's a whopping 26,000 jobs created a year. Nothing to toot your horn about. Obama created at least that many jobs in one week just this past January.

 

[The Derp]

Obviously corporations need money to grow and compete internationally the more money that is stolen from them the more they are impeded in their primary mission 1+1 = 2

And from where do businesses get the money to grow and compete? Revenues. And what do taxes on profit have to do with revenues? Nothing.

 

[The Derp]

Corporations should not be taxed at all since it interferes with their primary mission which is to raise our standard of living at the fastest possible rate

No, their primary mission is to make profit. They don't care about the standard of living. If they did, they wouldn't move labor to nations where foreign workers earn in a day what American workers earn in an hour.

 

[The Derp]

Obviously they do if there is enough support for it. Why is this so confusing for you isn't there anybody you can ask to explain it to you?

So you say there is support for it, then you say there isn't, then you say there is. Make up your mind!

 

[The Derp]

Bush cut income taxes for all.

Funny you say that. What was the result of this "generous" tax cut for all? The middle and lower classes went into debt and drained their savings while the wealthy increased their savings, but didn't spend more. So what did the tax cut accomplish other than manufacturing deficits and transferring wealth to the top? Nothing.

Which excise taxes did Bush raise?

None. He just shifted that burden to the states. That strategy didn't work as those states then had to get aid in 2009 in order to balance their budgets following the Economic Collapse.

Obama raised taxes and had bigger deficits and shittier GDP growth.

Obama and Bush had the same growth rate - 1.76%. The only difference is that Bush lost net 460,000 private sector jobs after 8 years, and Obama created over 11,000,000 net private sector jobs. Bush handed Obama a trillion-dollar deficit which Obama reduced down to about $400B, a 60% reduction. Only two Presidents over the last 37 years have left office with a deficit lower than the one they inherited. Both those Presidents were Democrats. Republicans, on the other hand, doubled the deficit during Reagan and Bush the Elder, then erased a surplus during Bush the Dumber and produced four record deficits in 8 years.