GOP Budget Busting 101

[Delldude]

Yeah, kinda weird the right wing hasn't "set me straight", I assume you can though?

Monday nights I always inventory my toothpicks, sorry.

 

[jacksonlamb]

The safest (and usually almost always correct) is that it is Trump's fault.

 

[HikerGuy83]

OK, I know the rights going to CLAIM BJ Bill only got 4 surpluses, 3 after vetoing the GOP's $792+ billion tax cut thanks to Newt and his Contract On America. Let's look at actual data and see

The Real Heroes of the 1998 Budget Surplus: Clinton and His Economy​

Take President Clinton’s 1993 budget bill—officially known as the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993. OBRA, which mainly raised taxes on wealthy people but also raised the gas tax, extended limits on discretionary spending and cut back on some mandatory spending, was signed into law on August 10, 1993. Just five months prior, the Congressional Budget Office projected a 1998 deficit of $360 billion. One month after the bill passed, the CBO’s new estimate of the 1988 deficit was down to $200 billion.



The CBO explained the dramatic improvement this way: “For the first time in two and one-half years, the deficit projections have taken a decided turn for the better… The reconciliation act deserves most of the credit for the improvement over the long run.” Indeed, of the $160 billion improvement from March to September of that year, CBO directly credited OBRA with $143 billion. In fact, OBRA turns out to have been the single largest contributor to the 1998 surplus.
After OBRA, the second largest contributor to fiscal improvement over the period was the rapidly strengthening economy.


As the economy improved, the government began to take in more revenue than expected, since taxpayers were making more money, and had to spend somewhat less than expected, as poverty declined and the demand for social services declined with it.


Over the course of the five-year period, CBO assigned a total of $102 billion in fiscal improvement directly to the effects of this kind of broad economic growth



....But there is another reason why the economic boom produced even more revenue than expected, and again, it had absolutely nothing to do with Newt Gingrich....


OK I'LL WAIT START THE AD HOMS NOT BACKED UP AND BS NOW

RELEASE: The Real Heroes of the 1998 Budget Surplus: Clinton and His Economy

www.americanprogress.org

I already published the numbers around Clinton's time showing that we finally had a surplus. The CBO said we were on track to go to zero.

Along comes GWB and his stupid wars.

So, GFY for thinking you somehow presented something new.

We are in a deep world of poop.

Democrats and Republicans don't care.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Yeah, kinda weird the right wing hasn't "set me straight", I assume you can though?

Already said we were in good shape.

There are lots of another analaysis that show that the economy was positioned to do well, but thank Heavens Clinton stayed a true course. He deserves credit.

I don't believe I could be in the same room with GWB. My desire to choke him to death would override my logic.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Wow I thought this thread would be swarming with data and links to point out how wrong I am about putting most of the blame on the current debt on GOP policies.

Current GOP policies.....?

This started with Bush.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Sorry Cupcake, you get a big old F


Don't look at Dubya/GOP gutting revenues AS they blew up spending, or Dubya gutting regulators on the beat, just blame the Black Guy, lol


Accusations of fraud? Wow IF we had someone who cared right?

Trump Vowed to Crack Down on Fraudsters, but He’s Pardoned Dozens​

Across both of his terms, President Trump has granted clemency to more than 70 allies, donors and others convicted in fraud cases.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/19/us/politics/trump-fraudsters-pardons.html

NO PAYWALL

https://archive.ph/7aBxj

Trump pardons wipe nearly $2 billion in victim repayment and taxpayer recovery for Medicare and tax fraud, and more​

Trump pardons wipe nearly $2 billion in victim repayment and taxpayer recovery for Medicare and tax fraud, and more | Governor of California

www.gov.ca.gov

This is eyewash.

What are blathering about.

Bush could have gotten us to zero. Instead he set up Obama.

Obama then did a terrible job during the recovery.

Trump....I never expected him to do anything. I've been critical of him the whole time.

And while you want to blame the GOP, the fact is that congress in general has allowed this to go on.

They don't want to touch it.

And now we are paying well over a trillion a year in interest.

 

[HikerGuy83]

DON'T WORRY, I'LL GET TO DUBYA/GOP "FISCAL CONSERVATIVES SOON

He was anything but that.

He and the GOP congress were drunken spenders.

Total assholes.

Reagan did't put us on something non recoverable.

The arch under Clinton was headed to zero.

BTW: GFY over SS tax increases by Reagan.

Congress Approves Social Security Bill (Published 1977)

Sen, 56-21, and HR, 189-163, approve and send to Pres Carter Soc Security financing bill that Repubs denounce as 'biggest peacetime tax increase in history'; bill mandates series of increases, beginning in '79, for payroll taxes levied on more than 100-million employers, workers and...

www.nytimes.com

So Carter passes this stupid thing, but didn't really fix it. It was supposed to be fixed for 30 years according to Peanut brain.

But....

Ronald Reagan’s Social Security Reforms and Amendments

Detailed analysis of how Reagan’s 1983 amendments solved the Social Security fiscal crisis and created the modern trust fund structure.

legalclarity.org

In 1981.....the system was going bankrupt (so much for Carters 30 year fix) and he had to bail it out.

Later he had to do more, including taxing benefits. Somehow he let them have access to the trust fund.

You are going to whine about Reagan in 1983? Seriously?

The 1 Thing Nearly Everyone Forgets About Reagan's Social Security Reforms in 1983 | The Motley Fool

Though Reagan's bipartisan legislation extended the life of Social Security, it took a long time for lawmakers to finally act.

www.fool.com

So, how did all this get started? Back when FDR wanted his precious social security system passed he sold it as a load of bullshit. People bought in. Those who designed it fended off the complaints of those who said it would one day be a fiasco by saying "we'll be dead by then". They were both right.

So this started with a Democratic president....a democratic congress and a shiftless corrupt SCOTUS.

So **** you and your GOP policy bullshit.

And NOBODY want's to deal with the debt and SS is going to be the main reason we never get it under control. When the trust fund depletes they'll just start borrowing to keep beneifits where they are and our children are royally fucked.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Clinton took US from 17.5% of GDP to 20% in 2000 (Third Clinton surplus)

Yep....In 1994, the American People handed Bill Clinton his ass when they gave the house and senate back to the GOP.

He got the message.

He threw the left under the bus and went to work.

And he did a great job.

 

[jacksonlamb]

This is eyewash.

What are blathering about.

Bush could have gotten us to zero. Instead he set up Obama.

Obama then did a terrible job during the recovery.

Trump....I never expected him to do anything. I've been critical of him the whole time.

And while you want to blame the GOP, the fact is that congress in general has allowed this to go on.

They don't want to touch it.

And now we are paying well over a trillion a year in interest.

 

[HikerGuy83]

OK People let's get to the topic of debt, how we got here ($39+ trillion) and how GOP policy vs Democratic policies influenced it.

If you don't want to bring actual facts or data, just stand off



From 1945 to 1980 the US debt to GDP was shrinking. Measuring the debt via GDP accounts for population growth and inflation, and it's how every credible economist or nation measures revenues and expenses



US debt to GDP ABOUT 119% IN 1945, THE HIGHEST EVER TO THAT TIME


US DEBT TO GDP IN 1980 was 31%

What were we hearing from the GOP at that time? Let's take a ;look at Ronnie


"During the 1980 campaign, Ronald Reagan heavily criticized Jimmy Carter for federal budget deficits, which reached roughly $59 billion to $74 billion plus "off-budget" items. Reagan termed these deficits a failure of leadership, blaming them and resulting inflation on excessive government spending and taxing, while pledging to balance the budget by 1983 through tax cuts."



Now what did Ronnie actually do as Prez? Not the mythology the right created after seeing how popular and successful Clinton was, the actual data



"During Reagan's eight year presidency, the annual deficits averaged 4.0% of GDP, compared to a 2.2% average during the preceding eight years."

Federal Surplus or Deficit [-] as Percent of Gross Domestic Product

Graph and download economic data for Federal Surplus or Deficit [-] as Percent of Gross Domestic Product from 1929 to 2025 about budget, federal, GDP, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

WHAT? How could this be possible?


U.S. federal debt-to-GDP ratio at the end of fiscal year 1989 (September 30, 1989) was approximately 39% . Debt had increased from under $1 trillion to over $2.86 trillion in Ronnie final F/Y


But I thought tax cuts were going to bring in more revenues? Well let's look


F/Y 1980, CARTER'S FINAL F/Y - 19.2% of GDP, with total receipts of $517.1 billion. The total federal outlays (spending) for the same period was 21.2% of GDP


1981 F/Y - Carter's last year - 19.1% GDP revenues


1982- Reagan FIRST YEAR 18.6%
1983- Reagan 17%
1984- Reagan 16.9%
1985- Reagan 17.2%
1986- Reagan 17%
1987- Reagan 17.9%
1988- Reagan 17.7% (Cut taxes from top rate of 50% the US had since LBJ, to 28%, LARGEST TAX CUT FOR THE RICH TO DATE)
1989- Reagan 17.8%




Yes, President Ronald Reagan signed multiple tax increases into law after his major 1981 tax cut, in part to address rising budget deficits and close loopholes. While often remembered for cutting taxes, Reagan authorized 11 tax increases between 1981 and 1987, reversing nearly half of the initial 1981 tax savings.

• 1982 Tax Increase: Reagan signed the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 (TEFRA), which is described as one of the largest peacetime tax increases in U.S. history. It brought in revenue by closing loopholes and enhancing compliance.

• 1983 Social Security Reform:
  He signed legislation that included payroll tax increases on Social Security and Medicare. HUGE TAX INCREASES ON THE WORKING MAN

Federal Budget Receipts and Outlays​

Federal Budget Receipts and Outlays: | The American Presidency Project

www.presidency.ucsb.edu

NOW I'll be happy to debate, show the data and actual math, just ask. PLEASE don't deflect






Reversing 1981 Cuts: These subsequent tax hikes, including in 1984 and 1987, acted as a correction to the record-setting 1981 tax reductions, effectively rolling back a significant portion of those cuts


Despite the rhetoric of being a "tax cutter," Reagan signed legislation that increased taxes multiple times to handle the economic realities of the 1980s


DAMN, TRIPLING US DEBT (though increasing it ONLY 31% of GDP to 39% of GDP, is pretty good, compared to Dubya/Dementia Donnie


Yes, I'll touch bases on policies that drove the Muslim guys debt from Kenya.

Here is from Carter's 1977 Social Security Adjustments:

I am happy to be here today to sign legislation which will reassure the 33 million people who are receiving benefits and the 104 million workers now making contributions that the social security system will be financially sound well into the next century.

*******************************

See that bolded party? That was a joke. Four years later, congress was beating on Reagan's door because the system was literarlly months from going bankrupt and missing payments (so they said... that would not happen.... they would be reduced.....and it's going to happen in 2033).

Wanna know who set Carter upl? LBJ. The trust fund was getting so big, that LBJ instructed congress to increase benefits. He was worried the trust fund would impact global interest rates. Yep.... a democrat essentially ****** a democrat....and America.

At this point, people who didn't need it were getting real nice checks while the poor were not doing so well. So much for security.

Reagan fixed it for Carter, then opened the door in 1983 with a bunch of amendments.

And Thanks to FDR, LBJ, Carter, Reagan, Bush (and Obama suspended the tax for a while only further pulling down the trust fund that much faster).

It really wasn't Carter's fault his administration could not add 2 and 2.

They blew it.

So when blowhards like JohnKochsucker try to pin this on Reagan...you'll know what happened.

 

[JonKoch]

Here is from Carter's 1977 Social Security Adjustments:

I am happy to be here today to sign legislation which will reassure the 33 million people who are receiving benefits and the 104 million workers now making contributions that the social security system will be financially sound well into the next century.

*******************************

See that bolded party? That was a joke. Four years later, congress was beating on Reagan's door because the system was literarlly months from going bankrupt and missing payments (so they said... that would not happen.... they would be reduced.....and it's going to happen in 2033).

Wanna know who set Carter upl? LBJ. The trust fund was getting so big, that LBJ instructed congress to increase benefits. He was worried the trust fund would impact global interest rates. Yep.... a democrat essentially ****** a democrat....and America.

At this point, people who didn't need it were getting real nice checks while the poor were not doing so well. So much for security.

Reagan fixed it for Carter, then opened the door in 1983 with a bunch of amendments.

And Thanks to FDR, LBJ, Carter, Reagan, Bush (and Obama suspended the tax for a while only further pulling down the trust fund that much faster).

It really wasn't Carter's fault his administration could not add 2 and 2.

They blew it.

So when blowhards like JohnKochsucker try to pin this on Reagan...you'll know what happened.

LMAOROG. TOO FUNNY


''Under the 1972 law, inflation would have to increase by at least 3 % since the last increase in order to trigger an automatic benefit adjustment. Under subsequent amendments, there is now an annual increase without regard to any such minimum.''




The 1977 Social Security Amendments (Public Law 95-216) signed on December 20, 1977, fundamentally altered the U.S. Social Security system. It decoupled initial benefit calculations from price-indexed inflation, instituted wage indexing, corrected a major formula flaw, and created the "Notch".


1. Wage-Indexed Benefit Formula
Prior to the 1977 law, inflation indexing caused initial benefit amounts to continuously inflate. The 1977 Amendments decoupled this by:

• Calculating an individual's lifetime earnings by adjusting them for national wage growth (Index Year factors).
• Applying a specific formula to the worker's average indexed monthly earnings to arrive at the initial Primary Insurance Amount (PIA).
• Adjusting this base benefit for subsequent cost-of-living adjustments (COLAs) only after the initial year of eligibility.

2. The "Notch" Effect

Because the transition completely changed how initial benefits were determined for those newly eligible in 1979 or later, Congress created a transitional guarantee to avoid sudden benefit drops. This resulted in "Notch Babies" (individuals born between 1917 and 1921) receiving slightly lower benefits than those born before 1917 who retired under the old, mathematically flawed formula.

3. Changes to Taxable Wage Base and Earnings Penalty

• Taxable Wage Base: The amendments rapidly raised the maximum amount of earnings subject to Social Security taxes, ensuring the system's solvency.
• Earnings Test: It established standard exempt amounts for beneficiaries aged 65 and over, allowing retirees to earn higher wages without losing portions of their benefits.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/95th-congress/house-bill/9346

PINNING ON RONNIE WAS HIS ''SAVING'' SS TO HIDE THE REAL COST OF TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH, CUPCAKE, AS HE INCREASED IT ON THE SELF EMPLOYED!

 

[JonKoch]

Yep....In 1994, the American People handed Bill Clinton his ass when they gave the house and senate back to the GOP.

He got the message.

He threw the left under the bus and went to work.

And he did a great job.

More BS, thanks to the 1993 omnibus he got the job done Cupcake, the one EVERY GOPer voted against

 

[JonKoch]

He was anything but that.

He and the GOP congress were drunken spenders.

Total assholes.

Reagan did't put us on something non recoverable.

The arch under Clinton was headed to zero.

BTW: GFY over SS tax increases by Reagan.

Congress Approves Social Security Bill (Published 1977)

Sen, 56-21, and HR, 189-163, approve and send to Pres Carter Soc Security financing bill that Repubs denounce as 'biggest peacetime tax increase in history'; bill mandates series of increases, beginning in '79, for payroll taxes levied on more than 100-million employers, workers and...

www.nytimes.com

So Carter passes this stupid thing, but didn't really fix it. It was supposed to be fixed for 30 years according to Peanut brain.

But....

Ronald Reagan’s Social Security Reforms and Amendments

Detailed analysis of how Reagan’s 1983 amendments solved the Social Security fiscal crisis and created the modern trust fund structure.

legalclarity.org

In 1981.....the system was going bankrupt (so much for Carters 30 year fix) and he had to bail it out.

Later he had to do more, including taxing benefits. Somehow he let them have access to the trust fund.

You are going to whine about Reagan in 1983? Seriously?

http://[URL]https://www.fool.com/re...aspx?msockid=2881de799a4a63331fbec9589b35629a

[/URL]

So, how did all this get started? Back when FDR wanted his precious social security system passed he sold it as a load of bullshit. People bought in. Those who designed it fended off the complaints of those who said it would one day be a fiasco by saying "we'll be dead by then". They were both right.

So this started with a Democratic president....a democratic congress and a shiftless corrupt SCOTUS.

So **** you and your GOP policy bullshit.

And NOBODY want's to deal with the debt and SS is going to be the main reason we never get it under control. When the trust fund depletes they'll just start borrowing to keep beneifits where they are and our children are royally fucked.

Got it, YOU hate insurance p[rograms, which is what SS is. The thing working perfect in Germany for 150+ years

HINT gutting taxes as Ronnie, Dubya and Cheeto has done, created the debt (AS THEY ALL BLEW UP SPENDING!)

 

[JonKoch]

This is eyewash.

What are blathering about.

Bush could have gotten us to zero. Instead he set up Obama.

Obama then did a terrible job during the recovery.

Trump....I never expected him to do anything. I've been critical of him the whole time.

And while you want to blame the GOP, the fact is that congress in general has allowed this to go on.

They don't want to touch it.

And now we are paying well over a trillion a year in interest.

Right TODAY you don't like Dubya BUT loved him for his first 6 years right? Weird how presidents get credit but you righties ALWAYS blame Congress

Dubya could've got us to zero? WTF are you talking about? Dubya has ZERO growth without his ponzi scheme called the "home ownership society"

Yep, the worst economy since the first GOP great depression was handed to Obama, AND THE GOP FOUGHT EVERYTHING TO MAKE HIM A ONE TERMER REMEMBER?


Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY)

"Our No. 1 priority is to make this president a one-term president."

 

[JonKoch]

Already said we were in good shape.

There are lots of another analaysis that show that the economy was positioned to do well, but thank Heavens Clinton stayed a true course. He deserves credit.

I don't believe I could be in the same room with GWB. My desire to choke him to death would override my logic.

SURE, SURE

FLASHBACK: In 1993, GOP Warned That Clinton’s Tax Plan Would ‘Kill Jobs,’ ‘Kill The Current Recovery’​

Rep. Newt Gingrich (R-GA), February 2, 1993: We have all too many people in the Democratic administration who are talking about bigger Government, bigger bureaucracy, more programs, and higher taxes. I believe that that will in fact kill the current recovery and put us back in a recession. It might take 1 1/2 or 2 years, but it will happen. (Congressional Record, 1993, Thomas)

Rep. Bill Archer (R-TX), May 24, 1993: I would much rather be here today supporting the President and I would do so if his proposals could expect to increase jobs and the standard of living for Americans, but I believe his massive tax increases will do just the opposite. (Congressional Record, 1993, Thomas)

MANY MORE HERE

FLASHBACK: In 1993, GOP Warned That Clinton’s Tax Plan Would ‘Kill Jobs,’ ‘Kill The Current Recovery’

archive.thinkprogress.org

Establishing Fiscal Discipline and Paying off the National Debt

President Clinton's Record on Fiscal Discipline: Between 1981 and 1992, the national debt held by the public quadrupled. The annual budget deficit grew to $290 billion in 1992, the largest ever, and was projected to grow to more than $455 billion by Fiscal Year (FY) 2000

One of the reasons Goldman Sachs cites for the "best economy ever" is that "on the policy side, trade, fiscal, and monetary policies have been excellent, working in ways that have facilitated growth without inflation. The Clinton Administration has worked to liberalize trade and has used any revenue windfalls to reduce the federal budget deficit."
— Goldman Sachs, March 1998

"Clinton's 1993 budget cuts, which reduced projected red ink by more than $400 billion over five years, sparked a major drop in interest rates that helped boost investment in all the equipment and systems that brought forth the New Age economy of technological innovation and rising productivity."
— Business Week, May 19, 1997

The Clinton Presidency: Historic Economic Growth

 

[JonKoch]

I already published the numbers around Clinton's time showing that we finally had a surplus. The CBO said we were on track to go to zero.

Along comes GWB and his stupid wars.

So, GFY for thinking you somehow presented something new.

We are in a deep world of poop.

Democrats and Republicans don't care.

RIGHT, BOTH SIDES, NOT THE FISCAL DISCIPLINE OF THE DEMS 1993 OMNIBUS BILL AND CLINTON STOPPING THE GOP FROM GUTTING TAXES, WHERE HE HAD TO VETO THE GOP'S TAX CUTS AFTER HIS FIRST SURPLUS, LOL

Yeah, Cheeto is showing how "fiscal conservative" the GOP is, lol

 

[JonKoch]

Current GOP policies.....?

This started with Bush.

Right, Ronnie tripling the debt AS he blew up spending, didn't start it. Newt and company trying to gut revenues (tax cuts) didn't do it under Clinton, it all started with Dubya, lol


"Starve the beast" is a political strategy employed by American conservatives to limit government spending by cutting taxes, to deprive the federal government of revenue in a deliberate effort to force it to reduce spending. The term "the beast", in this context, refers to the United States federal government and the programs it funds, primarily with American tax money, particularly social programs such as education, welfare, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

Before his election as President, then-candidate Ronald Reagan foreshadowed the strategy during the 1980 US Presidential debates, saying "John Anderson tells us that first we've got to reduce spending before we can reduce taxes. Well, if you've got a kid that's extravagant, you can lecture him all you want to about his extravagance. Or you can cut his allowance and achieve the same end much quicker.

Starve the beast - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[jacksonlamb]

Trump, again, has hated the economy.

All he cares about are the richies.

 

[HikerGuy83]

More BS, thanks to the 1993 omnibus he got the job done Cupcake, the one EVERY GOPer voted against

So he didn't get his ass handed to him in 1994?

That's the real BS

 

[HikerGuy83]

RIGHT, BOTH SIDES, NOT THE FISCAL DISCIPLINE OF THE DEMS 1993 OMNIBUS BILL AND CLINTON STOPPING THE GOP FROM GUTTING TAXES, WHERE HE HAD TO VETO THE GOP'S TAX CUTS AFTER HIS FIRST SURPLUS, LOL

Yeah, Cheeto is showing how "fiscal conservative" the GOP is, lol

Both sides suck.