So Joe... what is the "fair share"???

[Nostra]

View attachment 542123

Still no answer.

 

[healthmyths]

I’m sorry
But that has nothing to do with what I posted and contributes nothing to the thread

It has EVERYTHING to do with it! Because nearly 3 times the American workers participate in a retirement plan that they contribute to BEFORE taxes and reduces their tax liabilities while increasing each one of these 60 million Americans value of $115,000 each! From 1990 to 2021 the individual retirement fund increased nearly 60% a year.
Plus instead of a retirement fund based on their employer, the 401K allows diversity thus reducing losses.
You ask every one of the 60 million would they prefer higher wages (which would mean more taxes) or higher allowance of 401K investment...
But among workers who’ve held their 401(k)s for at least a decade, the figure is just over $400,000, or more than three times the overall average. And for those who’ve held their 401(k) plans for 15 years or more, the figure is now $512,000. And that’s not just a result of seniority. Fidelity calculates that even millennials who’ve held their 401(k)s for at least 15 years now have an average balance of just under $280,000.

This record-breaking figure is now the average 401(k) balance

Mantra: Save early, save often.

www.marketwatch.com

But right-winger... you don't take the FACT an 15 year 401k member average value is $512,000! Where is that
showing up on your chart?

 

[Orangecat]

No. Earnings. 10% would be a fair tax for EVERY citizen. In my view.

We'll just have to disagree on that one, then. Taxing consumption encourages saving, taxing income discourages working.

Then move Election Day to April 16th.

I'm good with that, assuming income remains the tax source.

 

[Orangecat]

It works
Social Security has been paying for 80 years
It provides a path to retirement for most Americans

That's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[rightwinger]

That's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Not at all

Bottom line…..Social Security has been a success

 

[jc456]

You know what that tells me, dumb fuck? That the upper ten percent get way to much of the income in this nation. Time for the middle class and working poor to get their share of the wealth that they create.

based on what? When did you become the god of money and who deserves it?

 

[jc456]

We'll just have to disagree on that one, then. Taxing consumption encourages saving, taxing income discourages working.

I'm good with that, assuming income remains the tax source.

the only way to get a fair share tax is to collect off of goods sold. Period. 10% tax on nothing gets nothing. So the bottom 47% still would pay zero tax for the services of this country in a flat income tax. such as Military aid and any office that hands them the free money.

 

[Orangecat]

Not at all

Bottom line…..Social Security has been a success

Incorrect on both counts.
We're discussing why SS is a ponzi scheme, not your opinion on whether it's a success or not.
Think better or stop posting, fool.

 

[Orangecat]

the only way to get a fair share tax is to collect off of goods sold. Period. 10% tax on nothing gets nothing. So the bottom 47% still would pay zero tax for the services of this country. Military aid and any office that hands them the free money.

Everyone consumes, so everyone would pay the 10%. People who consume more would pay more.
A true fair tax would be a flat amount in exchange for a say in how it's spent (i.e. a vote). Pay $1K and you get a vote for it. Pay nothing and have no say in how the government spends it.

 

[jc456]

REveryone consumes, so everyone would pay the 10%. People who consume more would pay more.
A true fair tax would be a flat amount in exchange for a say in how it's spent (i.e. a vote). Pay $1K and you get a vote for it. Pay nothing and have no say in how the government spends it.

exactly, it's what I meant. I am against the flat tax on income was my point.

 

[22lcidw]

Not at all

Bottom line…..Social Security has been a success

15% of income though.

 

[francoHFW]

Wow! "Everyone is paying 27%"
YOU are wrong! See the below table as the Average tax rate for ALL 143,295,160 taxpayers is 14.6%
Now you evidently don't know the distinctions so here... let me help you. According to the below:
The top 10% Average tax rate was 21.5%
The bottom 50% average tax rate was 4.0%

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2020 Update

The top 1 percent of taxpayers pay a 26.8 percent average individual income tax rate, which is more than six times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (4.0 percent).

taxfoundation.org

While...61% of Americans paid no federal income taxes in 2020, Tax Policy Center says

61% of Americans paid no federal income taxes in 2020, Tax Policy Center says

The Tax Policy Center said 107 million households, or 61% of taxpayers, owed no income taxes in 2020. That's up from 76 million, or 44% of taxpayers, in 2019.

www.cnbc.com

View attachment 542103

You are still talking about the federal income tax for crying out loud, brainwashed functional moron. The payroll tax is just as big a deal as federal income tax these days. And every time the Republicans cut taxes nationally, state and local taxes go up to make up for lack of federal aid. State and local taxes that kill regular people. Google the only tax graph you need to know and stop being a Chump, super dupe.

 

[Lesh]

And by the way...$2,000 invested at 3% over 40 years would net a whopping $150K.

And with SS if you die the day before you are eligible to collect you get $0.

And without Social Security

IF you invested $ 2,000 a $20,000 income (doubtful) that $150K would run out in 12 years.

FIguring inflatin...you had little to start with and NOTHING after that

 

[rightwinger]

Incorrect on both counts.
We're discussing why SS is a ponzi scheme, not your opinion on whether it's a success or not.
Think better or stop posting, fool.

It is no such thing

 

[Claudette]

rightwinger
Sure it is dummy.

How long after you retire does it take to burn through what you invested in SS?? Not that long. After what you invested is gone you start collecting from those coming behind you. If they didn't do that you wouldn't have any SS coming in. Works the same for everyone who invested in SS.

It IS a ponzi scheme.

 

[healthmyths]

I’m sorry
But that has nothing to do with what I posted and contributes nothing to the thread

So you're saying that given 3 times the amount of working Americans in 2020 having nearly $ 7 trillion in retirement funds compared to 1990's $384 billion has NO bearing? Again I think you don't truly understand the economics that is involved and if you'd just follow the links I've provided compared to YOU zERO links regarding your subjective comments maybe that will provide some enlightenment that you are not getting from the biased MSM.
Remember you supported a president who had 7 children killed, who is for the first time a French ambassador is so pissed they are leaving the USA, that "URGED" illegals by the hundreds of thousands to come to the USA..."I would in fact make sure that there is immediately a surge to the border" who stupidity withdrew the military BEFORE the Americans in Afghanistan! And you believe the people that elected this guy?
That's what is amazing.

 

[healthmyths]

It is no such thing

I agree with you ... SS is NOT a Ponzi Scheme.
Definition is what you needed to submit:
a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors.

Ponzi Schemes: Definition, Examples, and Origins

A Ponzi scheme is an investment scam that pays early investors with money taken from later investors to create an illusion of big profits.

www.investopedia.com

SS is an EXISTING enterprise so that eliminates it as a PONZI scheme.
Now the unknown to most people is all the payroll tax revenue, SS,Medicare/Unempl... is considered Federal Income.
And as such lumped with taxes as federal income!
So consequently the expenses of SS/Medicare/unempl are DEDUCTED from Federal revenue.
And that's the problem. The federal govt is spending WAY WAY more than SS/Medicare, taxes are providing!

What are the sources of revenue for the federal government?

Total revenues In fiscal year (FY) 2014 [1] the federal government collected revenues of $3 trillion—about 17.5 percent of GDP. Over the past 50 years,...

www.taxpolicycenter.org

 

[rightwinger]

rightwinger
Sure it is dummy.

How long after you retire does it take to burn through what you invested in SS?? Not that long. After what you invested is gone you start collecting from those coming behind you. If they didn't do that you wouldn't have any SS coming in. Works the same for everyone who invested in SS.

It IS a ponzi scheme.

So it looks like SS is a good investment

I have an even better investment, a Civil Service Pension

 

[LeftofLeft]

Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society…….Oliver Wendell Holmes

Agreed. Roads, Defense, Infrastructure, Welfare..... just a few of the cost of a civilized society. $10M for gender studies in less civilized societies should not be born by the US taxpayer. CUT SPENDING.

 

[Claudette]

rightwinger
Yes its a good investment that will never stop cause everyone pays into SS.