Right-Wing Challenge: Fair Income Tax For The Top 50% vs Bottom 50%

[progressive hunter]

What do you want them to pay and how will that help what you are looking to achieve? I will help you with the math.

what I am looking to achieve is everyone paying their fair share,,
and since 50% pay little or nothing, some while receiving benefits, thats the opposite of fair share,,

once we have that then we can talk about your feelings,,

Obama-backed $2.2B green energy 'boondoggle' leaves taxpayers on the hook

Taxpayers and electricity customers face a costly standoff over the Ivanpah solar plant as California regulators block all efforts to shut it down.

www.foxnews.com

 

[citygator]

what I am looking to achieve is everyone paying their fair share,,
and since 50% pay little or nothing, some while receiving benefits, thats the opposite of fair share,,

once we have that then we can talk about your feelings,,

Obama-backed $2.2B green energy 'boondoggle' leaves taxpayers on the hook

Taxpayers and electricity customers face a costly standoff over the Ivanpah solar plant as California regulators block all efforts to shut it down.

www.foxnews.com

This is about YOUR feelings. OK. Here is the math. The top today is taxed at an effective rate of 10%. That's right. 10%. We get $2.3T from the top half as you can see above in the infographic. At 10% to the bottom you have now raised $200B off the backs of the poor. Congratulations. Now you are $1.8T short of a balanced budget. How did taking money from people on average making less than $25k per year help? How are we now solvent with a $1.8T deficit vs $2.0T deficit?

What did that achieve? That is math.

 

[progressive hunter]

This is about YOUR feelings. OK. Here is the math. The top today is taxed at an effective rate of 10%. That's right. 10%. We get $2.3T from the top half as you can see above in the infographic. At 10% to the bottom you have now raised $200B off the backs of the poor. Congratulations. Now you are $1.8T short of a balanced budget. How did taking money from people on average making less than $25k per year help? How are we now solvent with a $1.8T deficit vs $2.0T deficit?

What did that achieve? That is math.

math doesnt matter when 50% pay nothing into the system while sucking the tit of that system,,

when they injustice is corrected we can talk about math and your feelings,,

 

[citygator]

math doesnt matter when 50% pay nothing into the system while sucking the tit of that system,,

when they injustice is corrected we can talk about math and your feelings,,

So Math doesnt matter? It is feelings my friend. This was a good exercise but I think we are at an impasse.

To summarize: You want poor people to pay more in income taxes (they pay tons of other taxes) not because it will help the finances of the country in any material way but you feel they just should. You cant explain why, you just know they should. Sounds like feelings.

 

[progressive hunter]

So Math doesnt matter? It is feelings my friend. This was a good exercise but I think we are at an impasse.

To summarize: You want poor people to pay more in income taxes (they pay tons of other taxes) not because it will help the finances of the country in any material way but you feel they just should. You cant explain why, you just know they should. Sounds like feelings.

not when 50% arent even paying into the system,,

the topic is a fair income tax and that is the opposite of fair

 

[citygator]

not when 50% arent even paying into the system,,

the topic is a fair income tax and that is the opposite of fair

Feelings.

 

[progressive hunter]

Feelings.

its a fact 50% pay little or nothing with some even sucking off the system they pay nothing into,,

its also a fact thats the opposite of fair,,

 

[Southern Dad]

There is definitely an impact of reducing government spending in any capacity. If you cut scientific research you could complain about the industries that money was spent on too. So that isnt a unique problem to defense industry and will be a problem no matter where you cut spending.

I dont worry about a war needing lots of people to fight it. We'll never have one of those again. Ground wars are a thing of the past.

That’s what they said after WWI…. After WWII…. After Korea…. and after Vietnam.

 

[Southern Dad]

Gee, why didn't I think about that?

Gee

We have been rewarding POTUS for not going to Congress to declare war and the MIC for losing every war since WWII. All we have to show for it are bloated and ruthlessly greedy defense contractors, dead soldiers and tens of trillions in debt

Gee

Also, Milton Friedman described the imaginary "economic benefits" from things like having countless military bases here and abroad is like shoveling sand from one hole to another

Ever see what happens when we close or “realign” a military base? I have. I was at Fort Dix, New Jersey when that base was closed. Wrightstown and Browns Mills, two cities right outside of the base, took a huge hit. Wrightstown basically became a ghost town. It has never recovered.

 

[citygator]

That’s what they said after WWI…. After WWII…. After Korea…. and after Vietnam.

We havent needed a ground army since WWII/Korean War. Shouldn't have been in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran. I suppose we kicked Grenada's ass.

 

[Crepitus]

whats fair is everyone pays the same percentage,,

as it stands now the lower income people pay almost nothing with some even getting back more than they pay in,,

My effective tax rate is about 30%. Bill Gates is 15%.

Admittedly 15% of his income is far more money that 30% of mine so don't even start with that shit.

The issue is losing even 5% of my income hurts me more than losing 50% of his would hurt him.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Eliminate all federal income tax that sounds fair and equitable

But who would pay the fat loser aggressive progressive left wingers who run the useless bureaucracies

 

[kyzr]

Feelings.

Did my post #518 hurt your feelings? You didn't reply to it.

 

[citygator]

Dude, you don't know WTF you are talking about.
Social Security is separate from the Federal Budget, not one ****!ng Federal dollar was borrowed for SS.
Medicare is designed such that it is partly paid for with taxes and partly on the Federal budget.

Dude. You have two pockets. In one pocket a loan for $40T dollars. In the other pocket you you have $2.5T of social security funds. How much money do you have? Answer is none. You dont get to borrow $40T and act like you saved anything. There is only liabilities and assets. Ours is net -$40T.

That $40T debt you keep whining about was "borrowing" to pay for defense/wars, Welfare, Medicaid, Foreign Aid, and other things like fraud.

Doesnt matter what it was spent on. It was spent. And it was spent by the Boomers.

You have no clue what a "deadbeat" is.

Boomers. They are deadbeats

Obama, Biden and Trump added the most to the debt. Don't blame boomers, blame stupid politicians.

Obama and Trump are boomers and you left out Bush. Biden just missed the cut as greatest generation. YOU boomers allowed it. You voted for those folks in mass. But it doesnt matter how it happened. You saved nothing and spent it all.

That $40T debt was generated over the last 25 years. This congress or the next will need to deal with it.

My recommended new revenue streams to start paying down the debt are:
1. Add a 4% Federal Sales Tax on all sales (gains ~$400b/yr)
2. Add a 2% financial transaction tax on ALL financial buy/sell transactions (stocks, bonds, derivatives, bitcoin, etc.) (gains $180b/yr)
3. Remove the cap on SS tax, and raise the ages from 62/67 to 63/68 (saves SS)
4. Remove Capital Gains tax break (39% to 20%) gain is ordinary income. ($100b/yr gained)
5. Tariff revenue $350b a year goes to only debt reduction.

Very smart. We need to raise taxes. There is no way to reduce the budget enough.

Added together, $400b+$180b+$100b+$350b = $1T/yr to only be applied to debt reduction.

I prefer fewer sales taxes since they are regressive and hurt spending. I prefer income based taxes since they hurt spending less and are progressive. But we need more tax revenue.

 

[citygator]

its a fact 50% pay little or nothing with some even sucking off the system they pay nothing into,,

its also a fact thats the opposite of fair,,

I know how you feel but your outrage has little to do with facts. I just showed you that your outrage raises $200B which doesnt even dent the deficit. So the main thing you are hung up on, due to your insecurity, has basically no impact on the budget.

I am going to offer you a reason why you are so hung up on an idea that doesnt impact the budget - your feelings. You failed in life and it is important to you to think there are bigger failures. You see, I made it. I have no ill will toward people who make far less than me (which is 99.6% of people) because I dont need to feel better than others. I am better. Maybe if I was in your shoes I would be hung up on looking for ways to make myself feel better too. - The motivation analysis is free.

 

[struth]

This is about YOUR feelings. OK. Here is the math. The top today is taxed at an effective rate of 10%. That's right. 10%. We get $2.3T from the top half as you can see above in the infographic. At 10% to the bottom you have now raised $200B off the backs of the poor. Congratulations. Now you are $1.8T short of a balanced budget. How did taking money from people on average making less than $25k per year help? How are we now solvent with a $1.8T deficit vs $2.0T deficit?

What did that achieve? That is math.

Why don’t we cut the budget? What are the biggest drivers of the budget?

 

[struth]

I know how you feel but your outrage has little to do with facts. I just showed you that your outrage raises $200B which doesnt even dent the deficit. So the main thing you are hung up on, due to your insecurity, has basically no impact on the budget.

I am going to offer you a reason why you are so hung up on an idea that doesnt impact the budget - your feelings. You failed in life and it is important to you to think there are bigger failures. You see, I made it. I have no ill will toward people who make far less than me (which is 99.6% of people) because I dont need to feel better than others. I am better. Maybe if I was in your shoes I would be hung up on looking for ways to make myself feel better too. - The motivation analysis is free.

So what’s driving the deficit?

 

[citygator]

Why don’t we cut the budget? What are the biggest drivers of the budget?

So what’s driving the deficit?

DOGE just spent all the brainpower in MAGA world creating a budget that is an even larger deficit than before. The issue is all the controllable stuff low information magats focus on are piddly. They amount to nothing.

The real issues are not adjustable: War Money, Defense spending, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and interest add up to about 75% of the budget. So you are left with 25% of the budget that mostly runs the country and takes care of vets and poor people.

The only way to balance the deficit is to raise more income. It is a certainty as certain as the sunrise.

 

[struth]

DOGE just spent all the brainpower in MAGA world creating a budget that is an even larger deficit than before. The issue is all the controllable stuff low information magats focus on are piddly. They amount to nothing.

The real issues are not adjustable: War Money, Defense spending, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and interest add up to about 75% of the budget. So you are left with 25% of the budget that mostly runs the country and takes care of vets and poor people.

The only way to balance the deficit is to raise more income. It is a certainty as certain as the sunrise.

DOGE didn’t draft a budget…why do you lie?

DOD money is actually discretionary.

With that said I agree the real drivers of dead our entitlements SS, Medicare and Medicaid and need massive adjustments

Actually Medicaid and SsI take care of the poor and are the largest drivers of debt…

sNAp as well, which actually makes up the vast majority of the USDA budget

Not helping farmers, but giving entitlements of tax dollars to people…and you don’t even want to make a work requirement to get those tax dollars

 

[Frankeneinstein]

You are so smart. As a one percenter with a Charlotte NC home and a Florida beach home who makes all his money from capitalism I am super invested in crime and destroying America. You’re such a dipshit.

I am 100% for ending social security and letting you old farts die earlier. You dont deserve what your generation fleeced this country of for your own benefit.

We dont need the military we are funding. It’s overkill. Only a pu$$y would be so afraid in life he needs a $1T defense department.

I see the tax scam is going the way of climate change...the problem you have is the courts haven't figured out a way to legislate either of them into reality for ya.