"She was asking for it"

[Uncensored2008]

]Hmmm, did I say "a" drink?

One drink will alter the chemicals of the brain.

*checking*

Nope. I didn't.

Hmmmm

So who was it who said;

those whose minds are altered either by chemical or organic reason, are not able to consent,

They were using your ID.

 

[Ringel05]

Bull shit to the highest degree.

He was so cool and sexy last night, now he looks like a slob.

Off to prison with him.

My nads are fine it's your continued and willful misinterpretation of what constitutes date rape that is your shortcoming here.

I'm not misrepresenting anything. You've criminalized human relations. Force and coercion are crimes. Calling other things crimes is criminal.

How many times do I have to tell you that is not what constitutes date rape, even in a court of law.
**** it, you're so beyond rational thought on this subject as to make impossible to have a legitimate discussion with you on this subject.

 

[Si modo]

]Hmmm, did I say "a" drink?

One drink will alter the chemicals of the brain.

*checking*

Nope. I didn't.

Hmmmm

So who was it who said;

those whose minds are altered either by chemical or organic reason, are not able to consent,

They were using your ID.

One drink does not necessarily make one intoxicated.

But, you knew that.

 

[jillian]

date rape is... rape.

In your alleged mind I'm sure all sexual contact is "rape."



Except that it generally IS consensual when the act occurs and involves no force or violence. IF rape is an act of violence and domination, then "date rape" does not fit the definition. Most "date rape" cases involve younger women who are under the influence of drugs or alcohol who consent to sex but later claim that the consent was not valid because they were inebriated.

Him being ugly when you sober up doesn't make it rape.

it means that you knew the person.

get it now?

You're an idiot, seriously. Trying have a serious conversation with you is like discussing quantum physics with a Chimpanzee.

Standard Disclaimer: No offense to Chimpanzees intended.

You shouldn't project so often.
Date rape is never consensual which is why it is called rape, what you are referring to is not specifically rape unless it can be proven as such, it is a bad decision made among less than honorable boys who can't think past the end of their dick and will take a drunken nod as a yes. All of these are degrees of violence and control.
So obviously:
In your alleged mind I'm sure no sexual contact is "rape."

he got negged for his little comments. people as stupid as he is really shouldn't try to judge others' intellects.

 

[Againsheila]

The women are saying "Look at me!" They are not saying "Rape me, beat me, do whatever you want to me." There are special clubs for that, go there.

 

[jillian]

The women are saying "Look at me!" They are not saying "Rape me, beat me, do whatever you want to me." There are special clubs for that, go there.

Exactly, Sheila. But you know how misogynists are. They hate women anyway, so it's not that big a leap to blame them for being victimized.

Did you know in NY, it used to be the case that one couldn't prosecute for domestic abuse unless the abuser had caused injuries resulting in at least three stitches?

Most people, luckily, don't think that way anymore.

And then there are some of the more vile people on here....

 

[DiAnna]

An explicit "no" makes for an assault, whether "rape" is debatable. However, in most cases there is no explicit refusal and young men are still branded for life for screwing the drunk cheerleader.

An explicit "no" means there is no consent given. To force sexual intercourse after a woman has said no is rape. Simple. As for the rest of your poor-abused-men whinefest, young men are not branded for life for screwing a drunk cheerleader unless the drunk cheerleader was screaming "NO" at the top of her lungs and fighting tooth and nail. However, if the drunk cheerleader was saying nothing because she was unconscious, then she was clearly unable to give consent and if her limp body is then violated, it is rape. Simple.

As is the case with so many things, the pendulum has swung from one extreme to the other. It needs to be somewhere in the middle. I'm not excusing rape, I think REAL rapists deserve to be put to death. But what is going on is not rape and often falls in a VERY grey area. In Mississippi in 1920, a Black man could be hung for just looking at a white woman. Now any man can be hung for just looking at any woman. That isn't progress and it isn't justice.

Right. Every day we hear about some poor man being lynched until he is dead because he glanced at a female. Every damned day. Oh, the inhumanity of it all.

Date rape is NOT a grey area. Buying a woman dinner is not a license to force yourself on her if she says "no." You do not seem to understand that. No means no. If you have sex with her anyway, you have raped her. That is REAL rape and you would be a REAL rapist.

Now I know you're feeling very pouty and sorry for yourself, but frankly if you are as obtuse as you appear to be, you really are a complete moron.

 

[Ringel05]

]Hmmm, did I say "a" drink?

One drink will alter the chemicals of the brain.



Hmmmm

So who was it who said;

those whose minds are altered either by chemical or organic reason, are not able to consent,

They were using your ID.

One drink does not necessarily make one intoxicated.

But, you knew that.

I guess he's unaware or thinks we're unaware of the increased proliferation of date rape drugs that are even more potent when combined with alcohol. Then there's the issue of alcohol tolerance per individual.

 

[Si modo]

One drink will alter the chemicals of the brain.



Hmmmm

So who was it who said;



They were using your ID.

One drink does not necessarily make one intoxicated.

But, you knew that.

I guess he's unaware or thinks we're unaware of the increased proliferation of date rape drugs that are even more potent when combined with alcohol. Then there's the issue of alcohol tolerance per individual.

Right.

 

[MikeK]

All I can say to this uninformed tripe is,
You need to actually study the rape issue before you comment on it and before you say the same about me, my wife's a psychologist, I read (and have read in the past) much of the scientific material on this subject and we've had recent discussions on this subject due to a couple of study papers she has presented for peer review.

And your conclusions are?


Meanwhile, most of what I've read in this thread amounts paraphrased declarations that no man has the right to rape any woman. Period. And what can I say to that except, no kidding? But the fact remains rape does occur and the circumstances under which it occurs are as varied as the directions the human libido can follow. So to even suggest that every rapist is motivated by the same impulse is arrogantly naive.

Perhaps a more suitable analogy for rape than car theft would be the act of mugging, because in many cases the same type of personality is involved. A mugger is an opportunistic, aggressive sociopath who finds you vulnerable, wants your money and is willing to beat the hell out of you or worse if you won't give it up. That is one type of rapist and the mentality is precisely the same as that of the mugger except that he wants something other than money -- or in addition to money. There are other types, including those for whom the act of forcible rape is their only means of complete gratification because they are stimulated by the woman's fear. Also, the use of alcohol is commonly associated with not only forcible rape but assault, homicide and other behaviors which would not normally manifest in the individual.

The bottom line is simply declaring that no man should rape any woman is a redundant waste of time. Some men will rape a woman if aroused and the opportunity presents itself -- just as some men will take your possessions by force. So my advice to women who read this is the same as I had for each of my three girls as they became young women: There are all kinds of predatory screwballs in the world. Be aware of that and don't make yourself vulnerable to them.

So, the women who are raped DID make themselves vulnerable to the screwballs? Do you know any rape stats? Do you really think only "predatory screwballs" rape?

I didn't suggest that only predatory screwballs commit forcible rape. In fact I've made it clear elsewhere there are various types of men who are prone to that behavior. very often the effect of alcohol and/or mistaken signals from a woman are factors that motivate some men to behave in ways which are not consistent with their usual nature.

As for women who (inadvertantly) make themselves vulnerable to forcible rape, are you saying this is never the situation? I'm not suggesting that women who enhance their vulnerability to being raped do so intentionally. But some women (and girls) are simply naive, so they dress and/or behave inappropriately for a given circumstance which conveys the wrong impression to the wrong people.

 

[mskafka]

The women are saying "Look at me!" They are not saying "Rape me, beat me, do whatever you want to me." There are special clubs for that, go there.

Damn! You people are killing me. Sooooo funny. "Whip me, beat me, make me write bad checks!"

 

[MikeK]

If you are asleep in your home at night with doors and windows locked and some asshole pries open the window with a crowbar and holds a knife to your throat or gun to your head, just how are you to avoid the "predatory screwballs" in that case?

If you believe you are vulnerable to such a rare and unlikely contingency then the only advice I can offer is an electronic alarm system, an 85 pound Rottweiler near your bedside and/or a .357 magnum under your pillow. But if you'd rather not resort to such measures then the odds against something like that happening to you are distinctly in your favor. The choice is yours.

naturally you should use common sense and don't leave with some guy you meet at a bar.

There ya go. (That is unless you want to lie down with him.)

But good grief you should be allowed to be out and about by yourself at the mall or beauty shop or work for god's sake.

I would think a woman has relatively little to fear while out and about at a mall, a beauty salon or at work. But how do such activities compare with jogging through a park on a warm summer night, or walking home after working late through a dark and quiet neighborhood rather than taking a taxi or asking daddy or husband or someone to pick you up, or accepting a ride from a "nice" stranger, etc.?

How is a baby or an elderly or mentally retarded person supposed to avoid the "predatory screwballs?" Any advice on that?

Fortunately there aren't that many screwballs with such exotic impulses. But the only real way to avoid such a contingency is to not leave babies or elderly or retarded people alone and thus vulnerable to anything. Which, again, is common sense.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

Asking, or looking for it? maybe, but a Yes is still required. and No can be said at anytime.

 

[Uncensored2008]

One drink does not necessarily make one intoxicated.

One drink alters the chemicals in the brain.

But, you knew that.

What I know is that according to a lot of people who normally seem rational, men have zero civil rights and can be tossed in prison then tarred for the rest of their life because a girl changed her mind the next day, a week or a month later.

 

[Uncensored2008]

he got negged for his little comments. people as stupid as he is really shouldn't try to judge others' intellects.

You neg because you are too stupid to support your arguments.

Those who have the intellectual capacity debate in the open forum. The retarded throw negatives as if somehow that makes them right.

I think you have the intellect of a bag of hammers, the reason I think this isn't because you are a leftist, but because I have NEVER once seen you defend a position with logic and sound argument.

Agree or disagree, for christs sake at least TRY to make a rational argument.

You're an idiot, seriously. Trying have a serious conversation with you is like discussing quantum physics with a Chimpanzee.

Standard Disclaimer: No offense to Chimpanzees intended.

 

[Uncensored2008]

An explicit "no" means there is no consent given. To force sexual intercourse after a woman has said no is rape.

Agreed, that NEVER was the issue.

Simple. As for the rest of your poor-abused-men whinefest, young men are not branded for life for screwing a drunk cheerleader unless the drunk cheerleader was screaming "NO" at the top of her lungs and fighting tooth and nail.

Yes they are, every single day.

Remember the Duke Lacrosse charges?

How about this one?

{BRIDGEPORT, Conn. — Three lacrosse players for a Catholic university in New England have been charged with conspiring to sexually assault a female student in a dorm room.}

SHU Lacrosse Rape? Three Sacred Heart Players Charged With Sexual Assault

These boys were lucky, they were high enough profile that they got sprung before the lynching was complete. Most men aren't that lucky, they get lynched and the facts are never considered.

However, if the drunk cheerleader was saying nothing because she was unconscious, then she was clearly unable to give consent and if her limp body is then violated, it is rape. Simple.

And if she is slurring "iiii luvzzz yuuuu toooz babby" then let's lynch him. He is guilty by merit of his gender.

Right. Every day we hear about some poor man being lynched until he is dead because he glanced at a female. Every damned day. Oh, the inhumanity of it all.

No, we hear about him being put in prison and then into a "sexual predator database" for the rest of his life, published on the internet, to keep him from having a home or decent job, ever.

You don't have a son that you care about, obviously. But if you do, better tell him that if his girlfriend gets mad at him, he'll have less rights than a mass murderer. His gender is his crime, his guilt is being male. There is no defense, he has zero rights.

Date rape is NOT a grey area.

Really? Good to know that no teen girl or young woman ever was capricious or vindictive...

{Come on baby, I really love you.

I don't know, I don't think we should.

If you love me you will

We should wait

Come on baby, I have needs

We can fool around but if I say stop

I'll respect you

okay..}

It's about as grey as anything gets. We live in a society where men are treated as subhuman, with no rights, but it IS grey. Conversations like the one above go one every day.

In your world, he goes to prison as a rapist and is tagged with a scarlet letter for life.

Buying a woman dinner is not a license to force yourself on her if she says "no."

That's right, but then force has nothing to do with this.

You do not seem to understand that. No means no.

Straw man argument.

If you have sex with her anyway, you have raped her. That is REAL rape and you would be a REAL rapist.

Your straw man is boring. I said long ago that force and coercion are assault. You are arguing against your own suppositions, not against my arguments.

Now I know you're feeling very pouty and sorry for yourself, but frankly if you are as obtuse as you appear to be, you really are a complete moron.

At what age do you believe that castration should be compulsory?

 

[Uncensored2008]

I guess he's unaware or thinks we're unaware of the increased proliferation of date rape drugs that are even more potent when combined with alcohol. Then there's the issue of alcohol tolerance per individual.

I guess you're just dishonest. I said a long time ago that drugging someone was assault.

 

[MikeK]

I see your point dressing provocatively will get the attention of men but it doesn't give those men an excuse to attack or rape the woman.

It doesn't give them an excuse but it does give them a reason which is what the topic is about.

We know the difference between right and wrong but that's not the issue here. If someone gravely insults you that does not give you the legal right to retaliate with injurious battery. But it does give you a reason. The right and wrong of it is a separate issue.

Does a woman dressing and/or behaving provocatively then withholding sexual contact equate to an offensive insult? Some men think it does.

 

[Disir]

I think that there are several different issues at play here. Rape and false accusations or even registered sex offenders for urinating in a park while going for a morning jog.

Are there women or girls that make false accusations of rape? You betcha. Nobody is going to say, "Hey! That's ok there, girlie. I understand." Nobody understands, or more specifically, no one understands that doesn't get paid to understand will be as understanding. The ramifications for anyone falsely accused are horrible. In fact, as horrible as it was, the Duke case should have sent a message to every prosecutor in the country. It is very true that if they did not have money backing them they would have been done. But they did and the result was either you have evidence or you do not and if you try to play-kiss your job good-bye and your name will be splashed across the papers of how much you suck.

Is there legislation that states have passed that falsley label people as sex offenders? Yes. Pulling over on the side of a highway to urinate is not the same thing as pulling a car up to a group of kids or anyone else and flashing and masturbating. An 18 year old and a 16 year old that attend the same high school and have been dating for two years or even less that agree to having sex should not in anyway be penalized. That's crap. If you have two kids that are sexting then arresting them and labling them as sex offenders is crap.

I didn't see any of the above as the issue. BTW, the above listed is not a feminist thang. That is a sheer stupidity thing.

As an aside, the radical group of feminists are separationists and they by and large do not pursue this stuff. They live separated. I am a feminist. I, and many others, have sons, brothers and fathers. That is silly.

 

[Ringel05]

I see your point dressing provocatively will get the attention of men but it doesn't give those men an excuse to attack or rape the woman.

It doesn't give them an excuse but it does give them a reason which is what the topic is about.

We know the difference between right and wrong but that's not the issue here. If someone gravely insults you that does not give you the legal right to retaliate with injurious battery. But it does give you a reason. The right and wrong of it is a separate issue.

Does a woman dressing and/or behaving provocatively then withholding sexual contact equate to an offensive insult? Some men think it does.

Then those men need serious psychiatric help.