"She was asking for it"

[Ringel05]

I guess he's unaware or thinks we're unaware of the increased proliferation of date rape drugs that are even more potent when combined with alcohol. Then there's the issue of alcohol tolerance per individual.

I guess you're just dishonest. I said a long time ago that drugging someone was assault.

Dishonest? Then why do you keep harping on the one aspect of (possible but not always) rape that involves alcohol and some poor schmuck who is punished for it because the girl has morning after regrets, ya know, the one thing that actually happens the least?
The one that I and everyone else said wasn't even what we were talking about.

 

[Dragon]

My feeling is that rape touches on the extreme edge of the issue of female empowerment and sexual equality. There's a feeling among some men, a holdover from the cultural norms of several decades ago, that a woman can "belong" to a man, be his property to use as he will. But of course, in that mindset any given woman is not going to be the property of every man. There are "proper" categories:

The virgin -- property of her father, to be saved for the marriage market. Hands off!

The married woman -- property of her husband. Hands off unless you're ready for a fight.

Both these categories of woman are expected to signal their sexual unavailability. That's a combination of dress and behavior, both verbal behavior and body language. And of course, that brings us to the one improper category: the slut. This woman signals her availability, which means that she is fair game; it's assumed no man is going to object (and if she objects, so what?).

Behind all of this lies an assumption: that the woman is not in control. That she does not decide, someone else does -- her father, her husband, or whatever guy grabs her. Completely foreign to this mindset is a woman who signals her availability, not because she is fair game, but because SHE is on the prowl. Because she is female and endowed with healthy sexuality, and is looking for a partner -- on HER terms, according to HER choice and desire.

A woman who is scantily dressed and conveys sexiness in body language is indeed asking for something: she is asking to be told that she's desirable, that you are interested -- and then to be given the choice of whether to act on that or not.

But it's her sexuality and her right to control it. The only right that you have, in violation of her will, is to say no.

 

[Ernie S.]

No they are not, even if a woman is wearing just dental floss and a pair of stripper heels it doesn't give any man an excuse to just try and rape her.

Thats true as long as she stays where that attire is appropriate like the strip club. Rape is inexcusable no matter the situation or location, but our stripper knows where not to be with out her clothes.

I don't walk around in public with C notes hanging out of my pockets, but if I got robbed, it wouldn't be my fault. Same with women. A woman should be safe regardless of how she dresses, but there are assholes out there.
Most people have the self control necessary to live in society, but rapists....
Disgust me. execution is too good for them

 

[MikeK]

I see your point dressing provocatively will get the attention of men but it doesn't give those men an excuse to attack or rape the woman.

It doesn't give them an excuse but it does give them a reason which is what the topic is about.

We know the difference between right and wrong but that's not the issue here. If someone gravely insults you that does not give you the legal right to retaliate with injurious battery. But it does give you a reason. The right and wrong of it is a separate issue.

Does a woman dressing and/or behaving provocatively then withholding sexual contact equate to an offensive insult? Some men think it does.

Then those men need serious psychiatric help.

When I was a boy growing up in Brooklyn there was a very pretty neighborhood girl named Dotty who at age fifteen used a lot of makeup, was extremely well-developed and dressed to emphasize that. She dated several of the guys in our crowd and by age sixteen had gained a reputation as a "cock-teaser." She would go as far as letting a boy get his hand in her panties, give him every indication she was willing to go all the way, let him get worked up and then cut him off. She did it to my older brother, she did it to me and to two others we knew about.

It wasn't until years later that I learned some women do this because it affords them a sense of power over men. But it is extremely offensive, especially if the man senses the woman enjoys doing it.

I don't know if Dotty was ever raped. But if she was and if I heard about it I would have absolutely no sympathy for her. That was more than half a century ago but I'm sure I wasn't the only boy who thought she was asking for it and deserved it. And I don't believe any normal male would think that level of resentment of a girl like Dotty calls for psychiatric attention.

I don't know how today's mating game compares with that of the early 1950s, but I've always felt that a women should let a man know as early as possible what not to expect from her. Because the male is burdened with the role of sexual aggressor and if he is a normal male he is going to go as far as he thinks he can. And the further he gets the more aroused he will be when she finally tells him no. And his resentment will be proportionate to how far she's let him go.

 

[MikeK]

My feeling is that rape touches on the extreme edge of the issue of female empowerment and sexual equality. There's a feeling among some men, a holdover from the cultural norms of several decades ago, that a woman can "belong" to a man, be his property to use as he will. But of course, in that mindset any given woman is not going to be the property of every man. There are "proper" categories:

The virgin -- property of her father, to be saved for the marriage market. Hands off!

The married woman -- property of her husband. Hands off unless you're ready for a fight.

Both these categories of woman are expected to signal their sexual unavailability. That's a combination of dress and behavior, both verbal behavior and body language. And of course, that brings us to the one improper category: the slut. This woman signals her availability, which means that she is fair game; it's assumed no man is going to object (and if she objects, so what?).

Behind all of this lies an assumption: that the woman is not in control. That she does not decide, someone else does -- her father, her husband, or whatever guy grabs her. Completely foreign to this mindset is a woman who signals her availability, not because she is fair game, but because SHE is on the prowl. Because she is female and endowed with healthy sexuality, and is looking for a partner -- on HER terms, according to HER choice and desire.

A woman who is scantily dressed and conveys sexiness in body language is indeed asking for something: she is asking to be told that she's desirable, that you are interested -- and then to be given the choice of whether to act on that or not.

But it's her sexuality and her right to control it. The only right that you have, in violation of her will, is to say no.

You are quite right and very well said. But the fact remains there are men whose sense of propriety is quite apart from yours and those males you are writing for. And these others are the males your healthy and libidinous female must be acutely aware of.

Briefly stated; the world would be such a happy place if we didn't need to lock our doors at night.

 

[editec]

Men get raped in prison.

No doubt that's because they dress provocatively in those sexy orange jump suits (they're so hot!)

 

[Ringel05]

It doesn't give them an excuse but it does give them a reason which is what the topic is about.

We know the difference between right and wrong but that's not the issue here. If someone gravely insults you that does not give you the legal right to retaliate with injurious battery. But it does give you a reason. The right and wrong of it is a separate issue.

Does a woman dressing and/or behaving provocatively then withholding sexual contact equate to an offensive insult? Some men think it does.

Then those men need serious psychiatric help.

When I was a boy growing up in Brooklyn there was a very pretty neighborhood girl named Dotty who at age fifteen used a lot of makeup, was extremely well-developed and dressed to emphasize that. She dated several of the guys in our crowd and by age sixteen had gained a reputation as a "cock-teaser." She would go as far as letting a boy get his hand in her panties, give him every indication she was willing to go all the way, let him get worked up and then cut him off. She did it to my older brother, she did it to me and to two others we knew about.

It wasn't until years later that I learned some women do this because it affords them a sense of power over men. But it is extremely offensive, especially if the man senses the woman enjoys doing it.

I don't know if Dotty was ever raped. But if she was and if I heard about it I would have absolutely no sympathy for her. That was more than half a century ago but I'm sure I wasn't the only boy who thought she was asking for it and deserved it. And I don't believe any normal male would think that level of resentment of a girl like Dotty calls for psychiatric attention.

I don't know how today's mating game compares with that of the early 1950s, but I've always felt that a women should let a man know as early as possible what not to expect from her. Because the male is burdened with the role of sexual aggressor and if he is a normal male he is going to go as far as he thinks he can. And the further he gets the more aroused he will be when she finally tells him no. And his resentment will be proportionate to how far she's let him go.

Resentment is one thing but by law even if we are involved in consensual sex and half way through she starts pushing us away and telling us no, stop, we have to or it is considered rape from that point on. It is her body after all and if a man can't control his urges, he has a lot of maturing to do and he's not a man, he's still a boy.
BTW, yes It has happened to me, yes I did stop, no I never saw her again.

 

[BDBoop]

Between the ages of 18 and 22 I slept with everything that moved and a few things that didn't.

Then I found out that one of the symptoms of being molested as a child is promiscuity. I'm kind of wondering if that's not where Dotty was coming from.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Dishonest? Then why do you keep harping on the one aspect of (possible but not always) rape that involves alcohol and some poor schmuck who is punished for it because the girl has morning after regrets, ya know, the one thing that actually happens the least?

Happens the least? 60% + is the least?

I harp on it because lives are being destroyed, people going to prison and being branded for life after the witch trial.

I harp on it because it is an assault on fundamental liberty

The one that I and everyone else said wasn't even what we were talking about.

Your own posted stat says 6 out of 10 witch trials are held for this situation.

 

[Ringel05]

Dishonest? Then why do you keep harping on the one aspect of (possible but not always) rape that involves alcohol and some poor schmuck who is punished for it because the girl has morning after regrets, ya know, the one thing that actually happens the least?

Happens the least? 60% + is the least?

I harp on it because lives are being destroyed, people going to prison and being branded for life after the witch trial.

I harp on it because it is an assault on fundamental liberty

The one that I and everyone else said wasn't even what we were talking about.

Your own posted stat says 6 out of 10 witch trials are held for this situation.

Show your legal and scientific stats that 60% are falsely accused of date rape. This I'd like to see.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Show your legal and scientific stats that 60% are falsely accused of date rape. This I'd like to see.

I didn't say that 60% are falsely accused, I said that according to the statistic YOU posted, they claimed that more than 60% of cases are "date rape," where the accused is guilty, often regardless of being proven innocent.

I would ask if you would demand that a signed and notarized contract authorizing sex should be required, but it's clear that even such a document wouldn't protect men against these witch trials. You'd simply claim that she changed her mind after signing the contract and since men are subhuman, the contract is only valid if the woman wants it to be valid at that particular second. Lynchings shall proceed as planned.

 

[High_Gravity]

I see your point dressing provocatively will get the attention of men but it doesn't give those men an excuse to attack or rape the woman.

It doesn't give them an excuse but it does give them a reason which is what the topic is about.

We know the difference between right and wrong but that's not the issue here. If someone gravely insults you that does not give you the legal right to retaliate with injurious battery. But it does give you a reason. The right and wrong of it is a separate issue.

Does a woman dressing and/or behaving provocatively then withholding sexual contact equate to an offensive insult? Some men think it does.

Those men have it wrong.

 

[High_Gravity]

It doesn't give them an excuse but it does give them a reason which is what the topic is about.

We know the difference between right and wrong but that's not the issue here. If someone gravely insults you that does not give you the legal right to retaliate with injurious battery. But it does give you a reason. The right and wrong of it is a separate issue.

Does a woman dressing and/or behaving provocatively then withholding sexual contact equate to an offensive insult? Some men think it does.

Then those men need serious psychiatric help.

When I was a boy growing up in Brooklyn there was a very pretty neighborhood girl named Dotty who at age fifteen used a lot of makeup, was extremely well-developed and dressed to emphasize that. She dated several of the guys in our crowd and by age sixteen had gained a reputation as a "cock-teaser." She would go as far as letting a boy get his hand in her panties, give him every indication she was willing to go all the way, let him get worked up and then cut him off. She did it to my older brother, she did it to me and to two others we knew about.

It wasn't until years later that I learned some women do this because it affords them a sense of power over men. But it is extremely offensive, especially if the man senses the woman enjoys doing it.

I don't know if Dotty was ever raped. But if she was and if I heard about it I would have absolutely no sympathy for her. That was more than half a century ago but I'm sure I wasn't the only boy who thought she was asking for it and deserved it. And I don't believe any normal male would think that level of resentment of a girl like Dotty calls for psychiatric attention.

I don't know how today's mating game compares with that of the early 1950s, but I've always felt that a women should let a man know as early as possible what not to expect from her. Because the male is burdened with the role of sexual aggressor and if he is a normal male he is going to go as far as he thinks he can. And the further he gets the more aroused he will be when she finally tells him no. And his resentment will be proportionate to how far she's let him go.

I have been with a few women who behaved the same way, but I never thought they would deserve to be raped, its a red flag that you think this girl deserves to be raped because she was a "cock tease".

 

[MikeK]

Resentment is one thing but by law even if we are involved in consensual sex and half way through she starts pushing us away and telling us no, stop, we have to or it is considered rape from that point on.

[...]

I think we've established and agree that rape is unacceptable as well as illegal. The issue is whether or not a woman can ever be thought of as "asking for it." I've cited an example from my personal recollection of one girl whom I (and others) felt was definitely asking for it -- and deserved it.

I don't know if that girl harbored a subliminal wish to be forced or if she just enjoyed baiting, tantalizing and frustrating boys. Either way she was analogous to the schoolyard bully who likes pushing others around for fun. The question is does he deserve to be knocked on his ass or not?

 

[Ringel05]

Resentment is one thing but by law even if we are involved in consensual sex and half way through she starts pushing us away and telling us no, stop, we have to or it is considered rape from that point on.

[...]

I think we've established and agree that rape is unacceptable as well as illegal. The issue is whether or not a woman can ever be thought of as "asking for it." I've cited an example from my personal recollection of one girl whom I (and others) felt was definitely asking for it -- and deserved it.

I don't know if that girl harbored a subliminal wish to be forced or if she just enjoyed baiting, tantalizing and frustrating boys. Either way she was analogous to the schoolyard bully who likes pushing others around for fun. The question is does he deserve to be knocked on his ass or not?

Trust me I understand your point all too well, but that thinking has all to often lead to the rape victim being accused of seducing the rapist into raping, that's not the case. The rapist rapes because he thinks, in this situation, he can get away with it, it's her fault, she shouldn't have led him on then said no. Well, too damn bad.

 

[Ringel05]

Show your legal and scientific stats that 60% are falsely accused of date rape. This I'd like to see.

I didn't say that 60% are falsely accused, I said that according to the statistic YOU posted, they claimed that more than 60% of cases are "date rape," where the accused is guilty, often regardless of being proven innocent.

I would ask if you would demand that a signed and notarized contract authorizing sex should be required, but it's clear that even such a document wouldn't protect men against these witch trials. You'd simply claim that she changed her mind after signing the contract and since men are subhuman, the contract is only valid if the woman wants it to be valid at that particular second. Lynchings shall proceed as planned.

You're an idiot and an ass. Take off the damn blinders.
Most date rapes occur in colleges and universities and are planned.
Here read, if you know how.

[url=http://www.jstor.org/pss/189830]JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie[/URL]

http://www.k-state.edu/media/webzine/Didyouhearyes/mostunreported.html

http://4collegewomen.org/fact-sheets/date_rape.html

http://www.aaets.org/article135.htm

 

[High_Gravity]

Resentment is one thing but by law even if we are involved in consensual sex and half way through she starts pushing us away and telling us no, stop, we have to or it is considered rape from that point on.

[...]

I think we've established and agree that rape is unacceptable as well as illegal. The issue is whether or not a woman can ever be thought of as "asking for it." I've cited an example from my personal recollection of one girl whom I (and others) felt was definitely asking for it -- and deserved it.

I don't know if that girl harbored a subliminal wish to be forced or if she just enjoyed baiting, tantalizing and frustrating boys. Either way she was analogous to the schoolyard bully who likes pushing others around for fun. The question is does he deserve to be knocked on his ass or not?

Nobody deserves to be raped, you are wrong for thinking that.

 

[High_Gravity]

Show your legal and scientific stats that 60% are falsely accused of date rape. This I'd like to see.

I didn't say that 60% are falsely accused, I said that according to the statistic YOU posted, they claimed that more than 60% of cases are "date rape," where the accused is guilty, often regardless of being proven innocent.

I would ask if you would demand that a signed and notarized contract authorizing sex should be required, but it's clear that even such a document wouldn't protect men against these witch trials. You'd simply claim that she changed her mind after signing the contract and since men are subhuman, the contract is only valid if the woman wants it to be valid at that particular second. Lynchings shall proceed as planned.

You're an idiot and an ass. Take off the damn blinders.
Most date rapes occur in colleges and universities and are planned.
Here read, if you know how.

[url=http://www.jstor.org/pss/189830]JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie[/URL]

Date rape 'most unreported' crime on college campus

4collegewomen.org - Date Rape

Acquaintance Rape on College and University Campuses

You should look up the stats for the Air Force Academy, that place is setting records for date rape.

 

[MikeK]

I have been with a few women who behaved the same way, but I never thought they would deserve to be raped, its a red flag that you think this girl deserves to be raped because she was a "cock tease".

"Red flag?" Meaning what?

 

[High_Gravity]

I have been with a few women who behaved the same way, but I never thought they would deserve to be raped, its a red flag that you think this girl deserves to be raped because she was a "cock tease".

"Red flag?" Meaning what?

That means that its not a good sign that you think anyone deserves to be raped.