Secular moralism and religious moralism. Which is better?

[Taz]

The decline of religiosity began in America in the 1960s. And ever since year after year religion has had less and less influence on our culture/society.
In fact today, as we saw with the latest Supreme Court nominee... being religious can even be considered a vice. When did that happen?
And where has it got us?
Some good. Gay people being accepted as equals, and not judged as perverts and sickos.
Having difficulty finding anything beneficial other than that.

The bad is plenty.
Look around you. Everyone is a narcissist now. And all of the problems that go with that. The country is more divided than it ever was. We are literally dangerously close to losing everything our forefathers fought for.

We got a show on a prominent channel that attempts to normalize gross sexualization of 11 year old girls.
I watched a show last night (Ratched) where a nurse masturbated a serial murderer... but the viewer warnings at the beginning of the show listed "smoking", as if seeing someone smoke is worse than sitting in your living room watching someone jerk off.
Porn, particularly incestual and sadistic porn, where the most popular "models" are girls who only months before were in high school. They are exploited, pimped out discarded like trash once no longer popular. Some scarred for life. But no one cares. You see... paying someone to have sex is illegal and unacceptable. But put a camera in the room and record it... it is all good. Because that makes sense.

You can lose your job for wearing a cross around your neck. But a guy who is sexually aroused wearing women's clothing is now a hero.
How did we get this fucked up. Where as many as 10% of teens are on anti-depressants, and another 6 percent taking behavioral modification pills.
Of those that do get married, over half fail.
We have populations in society where over 70% of kids grow up without a father significantly involved in their life. And the result of that plays itself out every weekend in cities like Chicago, Philadelphia and others.
Are we happier? Obviously not, the percentage of people in America taking anti-depressants is nearing 1 in 5.

Religion has separated people into different groups who are all taught to hate each other, that the other is wrong, a pervert, sick... We need Freedom FROM religion, not Freedom of Religion. Time for another Amendment.

yeah... cause people without religion are not divided.

Back even 200 years ago, pretty near everyone was religious. These days there are many more unbelievers than there used to be, because people are more educated now, in general, and can read the bs for themselves. Divided? You mean along party lines?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Secular is empirically better, and the evidence for that is that all of the desert Religions became looser and looser in their interpretations once certain aspects of their texts were deemed barbaric. Stonings, slavery, baby killing, raping, plundering, the subjugation of women...etc....was all deserted by these Religions over time when those practices became frowned upon in Secular Society.

I think everyone understood this is topic about modern society, not what happened 1,000 - 3,000 years ago in various religions.
And

What happened 1 to 3, 000 years ago was that these Religions were Barbaric.

Their practices changed over time, you just elucidated as much.

Did their God change with the times? No, he's supposed to be their arbiter of Objective Morality...so how did the various Religions' mores shift over time, then? Societal(Secular) evolution(obviously). And your post, seemingly accidentally, contributed to further elucidate that phenomena.

You are concentrating on the worst aspects of ancient times. That has nothing to do with modern America. As I stipulated. You are introducing another topic.
I didn't create a topic about religions, and how they have evolved over 3000 years.
FFS - the very first line in the OP is the decline of religiosity beginning in 1960s, and what effects of that moralism being replaced by secular moralism. IN MODERN AMERICA. Not Iraq in 100 AD.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The decline of religiosity began in America in the 1960s. And ever since year after year religion has had less and less influence on our culture/society.
In fact today, as we saw with the latest Supreme Court nominee... being religious can even be considered a vice. When did that happen?
And where has it got us?
Some good. Gay people being accepted as equals, and not judged as perverts and sickos.
Having difficulty finding anything beneficial other than that.

The bad is plenty.
Look around you. Everyone is a narcissist now. And all of the problems that go with that. The country is more divided than it ever was. We are literally dangerously close to losing everything our forefathers fought for.

We got a show on a prominent channel that attempts to normalize gross sexualization of 11 year old girls.
I watched a show last night (Ratched) where a nurse masturbated a serial murderer... but the viewer warnings at the beginning of the show listed "smoking", as if seeing someone smoke is worse than sitting in your living room watching someone jerk off.
Porn, particularly incestual and sadistic porn, where the most popular "models" are girls who only months before were in high school. They are exploited, pimped out discarded like trash once no longer popular. Some scarred for life. But no one cares. You see... paying someone to have sex is illegal and unacceptable. But put a camera in the room and record it... it is all good. Because that makes sense.

You can lose your job for wearing a cross around your neck. But a guy who is sexually aroused wearing women's clothing is now a hero.
How did we get this fucked up. Where as many as 10% of teens are on anti-depressants, and another 6 percent taking behavioral modification pills.
Of those that do get married, over half fail.
We have populations in society where over 70% of kids grow up without a father significantly involved in their life. And the result of that plays itself out every weekend in cities like Chicago, Philadelphia and others.
Are we happier? Obviously not, the percentage of people in America taking anti-depressants is nearing 1 in 5.

Religion has separated people into different groups who are all taught to hate each other, that the other is wrong, a pervert, sick... We need Freedom FROM religion, not Freedom of Religion. Time for another Amendment.

yeah... cause people without religion are not divided.

Back even 200 years ago, pretty near everyone was religious. These days there are many more unbelievers than there used to be, because people are more educated now, in general, and can read the bs for themselves. Divided? You mean along party lines?

I am not convinced there are more unbelievers. There isn't.
I would say it goes like this...
Highest population % -
1) Believers, whether active in religion or not.
2) Agnostic
3) Athiest

 

[Taz]

The decline of religiosity began in America in the 1960s. And ever since year after year religion has had less and less influence on our culture/society.
In fact today, as we saw with the latest Supreme Court nominee... being religious can even be considered a vice. When did that happen?
And where has it got us?
Some good. Gay people being accepted as equals, and not judged as perverts and sickos.
Having difficulty finding anything beneficial other than that.

The bad is plenty.
Look around you. Everyone is a narcissist now. And all of the problems that go with that. The country is more divided than it ever was. We are literally dangerously close to losing everything our forefathers fought for.

We got a show on a prominent channel that attempts to normalize gross sexualization of 11 year old girls.
I watched a show last night (Ratched) where a nurse masturbated a serial murderer... but the viewer warnings at the beginning of the show listed "smoking", as if seeing someone smoke is worse than sitting in your living room watching someone jerk off.
Porn, particularly incestual and sadistic porn, where the most popular "models" are girls who only months before were in high school. They are exploited, pimped out discarded like trash once no longer popular. Some scarred for life. But no one cares. You see... paying someone to have sex is illegal and unacceptable. But put a camera in the room and record it... it is all good. Because that makes sense.

You can lose your job for wearing a cross around your neck. But a guy who is sexually aroused wearing women's clothing is now a hero.
How did we get this fucked up. Where as many as 10% of teens are on anti-depressants, and another 6 percent taking behavioral modification pills.
Of those that do get married, over half fail.
We have populations in society where over 70% of kids grow up without a father significantly involved in their life. And the result of that plays itself out every weekend in cities like Chicago, Philadelphia and others.
Are we happier? Obviously not, the percentage of people in America taking anti-depressants is nearing 1 in 5.

Religion has separated people into different groups who are all taught to hate each other, that the other is wrong, a pervert, sick... We need Freedom FROM religion, not Freedom of Religion. Time for another Amendment.

yeah... cause people without religion are not divided.

Back even 200 years ago, pretty near everyone was religious. These days there are many more unbelievers than there used to be, because people are more educated now, in general, and can read the bs for themselves. Divided? You mean along party lines?

I am not convinced there are more unbelievers. There isn't.
I would say it goes like this...
Highest population % -
1) Believers, whether active in religion or not.
2) Agnostic
3) Athiest

I said more unbelievers than in the past. No, not more than believers. Most of the world are still sheeple and not all that bright.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Secular is empirically better, and the evidence for that is that all of the desert Religions became looser and looser in their interpretations once certain aspects of their texts were deemed barbaric. Stonings, slavery, baby killing, raping, plundering, the subjugation of women...etc....was all deserted by these Religions over time when those practices became frowned upon in Secular Society.

I think everyone understood this is topic about modern society, not what happened 1,000 - 3,000 years ago in various religions.
And

What happened 1 to 3, 000 years ago was that these Religions were Barbaric.

Their practices changed over time, you just elucidated as much.

Did their God change with the times? No, he's supposed to be their arbiter of Objective Morality...so how did the various Religions' mores shift over time, then? Societal(Secular) evolution(obviously). And your post, seemingly accidentally, contributed to further elucidate that phenomena.

You are concentrating on the worst aspects of ancient times. That has nothing to do with modern America. As I stipulated. You are introducing another topic.
I didn't create a topic about religions, and how they have evolved over 3000 years.
FFS - the very first line in the OP is the decline of religiosity beginning in 1960s, and what effects of that moralism being replaced by secular moralism. IN MODERN AMERICA. Not Iraq in 100 AD.

You are missing the point.

Religious moralism has been being replaced all of those thousands of years, and you're ONLY admitting it over and over.

FFS, it's the exact empirical evidence that clearly, Secular morality has been ahead of Religious morality for thousands of years...Secular Humanism has LITERALLY changed their behaviors from the word of their God(s).

That's the point.

Sigh.... I am not arguing against your point G.T. - in fact you are obviously correct in what it is you are talking about.
What the OP is talking about are those changes in MODERN AMERICA. Now. Not the change of religions throughout the world over all time. That is an entirely different/broader study.

 

[Care4all]

When Moses came down the Mountain, and saw his flock making a golden calf to worship, with immorality, and idol worship and sinning taking place left and right....

God SEARED right from wrong in to the hearts and heads of all men and women.... all were implanted with a conscience, to know right from wrong.... secularists and the religious....from there on out....

At least in the movie, The Ten Commandments....( I haven't tried to find the Bible verses that coincide, but I WILL do such, as soon as I can)

So, without going in to your post, but to answer the simple title of yours, all humans know right from wrong in the general sense, whether religious or not.... we know that murdering another human is not moral, we know sleeping with your neighbor's wife I s not moral, we know covetting what the Jones's have is not moral, we know stealing someone else's stuff is not right etc etc....whether we are secular humans or religious humans.


As far as the immorality in your post, it takes place by those who claim religion, and those who do not, morality and immorality does not discriminate.

 

[BreezeWood]

The decline of religiosity began in America in the 1960s. And ever since year after year religion has had less and less influence on our culture/society.

.
more the decline of the desert religions than religiosity.

civil rights for some reason was a major wedge issue in the early 60's that became a liberation between generations encompassing society as a whole and oddly the rejection of the previous mccarthy era was a primary motivation that saw the collapse of the previous generation that is yet to be reconciled.
.
View attachment 398097
.
the commie haters surprisingly lost their relevance with little if any lasting effect.

not to mention the christian bible is a book of forgeries and fallacies the new generations found little in appeal for their inquisitive nature.

Show us a forgery from the Bible and a fallacy, Thank you.

.

Show us a forgery from the Bible and a fallacy, Thank you.

.
look on any page -
.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

.
the 1st century events had nothing to do with your phony messiah story remove those and a clearer picture will reveal the true religious itinerant's message of liberation theology the opposite of the corrupt christian message of servitude.
.
Secular moralism and religious moralism. Which is better?

only one is made up not better, how metaphysical life came into being.

.

.
#truthmatters -

for some.
.
there are metaphysical truth's the universe has evolved for the establishment of Garden Earth that are the source for its prosperity and recognizable by any being so directed to find them and may be used for their own spiritual enlightenment - or phony ones made up for nefarious, subversive reasons.

secular morals are the ingredients necessary for a being to free their spirit before their physiological life expires.

 

[ESay]

The decline of religiosity began in America in the 1960s. And ever since year after year religion has had less and less influence on our culture/society.
In fact today, as we saw with the latest Supreme Court nominee... being religious can even be considered a vice. When did that happen?
And where has it got us?
Some good. Gay people being accepted as equals, and not judged as perverts and sickos.
Having difficulty finding anything beneficial other than that.

The bad is plenty.
Look around you. Everyone is a narcissist now. And all of the problems that go with that. The country is more divided than it ever was. We are literally dangerously close to losing everything our forefathers fought for.

We got a show on a prominent channel that attempts to normalize gross sexualization of 11 year old girls.
I watched a show last night (Ratched) where a nurse masturbated a serial murderer... but the viewer warnings at the beginning of the show listed "smoking", as if seeing someone smoke is worse than sitting in your living room watching someone jerk off.
Porn, particularly incestual and sadistic porn, where the most popular "models" are girls who only months before were in high school. They are exploited, pimped out discarded like trash once no longer popular. Some scarred for life. But no one cares. You see... paying someone to have sex is illegal and unacceptable. But put a camera in the room and record it... it is all good. Because that makes sense.

You can lose your job for wearing a cross around your neck. But a guy who is sexually aroused wearing women's clothing is now a hero.
How did we get this fucked up. Where as many as 10% of teens are on anti-depressants, and another 6 percent taking behavioral modification pills.
Of those that do get married, over half fail.
We have populations in society where over 70% of kids grow up without a father significantly involved in their life. And the result of that plays itself out every weekend in cities like Chicago, Philadelphia and others.
Are we happier? Obviously not, the percentage of people in America taking anti-depressants is nearing 1 in 5.

Let's take a look at one of the most religious state Alabama. Does it have higher level of morality that 'secular' states? And if yes, in what ways it can be seen - significantly lower level of crime, homelessness, hospitals for the poor etc? How their religious morality helped them to live through the current pandemic?

 

[LittleNipper]

The decline of religiosity began in America in the 1960s. And ever since year after year religion has had less and less influence on our culture/society.

.
more the decline of the desert religions than religiosity.

civil rights for some reason was a major wedge issue in the early 60's that became a liberation between generations encompassing society as a whole and oddly the rejection of the previous mccarthy era was a primary motivation that saw the collapse of the previous generation that is yet to be reconciled.
.
View attachment 398097
.
the commie haters surprisingly lost their relevance with little if any lasting effect.

not to mention the christian bible is a book of forgeries and fallacies the new generations found little in appeal for their inquisitive nature.

Show us a forgery from the Bible and a fallacy, Thank you.

.

Show us a forgery from the Bible and a fallacy, Thank you.

.
look on any page -
.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

.
the 1st century events had nothing to do with your phony messiah story remove those and a clearer picture will reveal the true religious itinerant's message of liberation theology the opposite of the corrupt christian message of servitude.
.
Secular moralism and religious moralism. Which is better?

only one is made up not better, how metaphysical life came into being.

OKay, I will look here. Is this untrue and a forgery?

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

King James Version
1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

 

[BreezeWood]

The decline of religiosity began in America in the 1960s. And ever since year after year religion has had less and less influence on our culture/society.

.
more the decline of the desert religions than religiosity.

civil rights for some reason was a major wedge issue in the early 60's that became a liberation between generations encompassing society as a whole and oddly the rejection of the previous mccarthy era was a primary motivation that saw the collapse of the previous generation that is yet to be reconciled.
.
View attachment 398097
.
the commie haters surprisingly lost their relevance with little if any lasting effect.

not to mention the christian bible is a book of forgeries and fallacies the new generations found little in appeal for their inquisitive nature.

Show us a forgery from the Bible and a fallacy, Thank you.

.

Show us a forgery from the Bible and a fallacy, Thank you.

.
look on any page -
.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

.
the 1st century events had nothing to do with your phony messiah story remove those and a clearer picture will reveal the true religious itinerant's message of liberation theology the opposite of the corrupt christian message of servitude.
.
Secular moralism and religious moralism. Which is better?

only one is made up not better, how metaphysical life came into being.

OKay, I will look here. Is this untrue and a forgery?

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

King James Version
1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

.

OKay, I will look here. Is this untrue and a forgery?

.
you did not respond to the forgery provided -

the example you have displayed is secular as throughout that book used cunningly to shadow their errant narrative.

as requested previously provide any verifiable evidence directly from the religious itinerant a claim to being a messiah. etched in stone by their own hand.

 

[westwall]

The decline of religiosity began in America in the 1960s. And ever since year after year religion has had less and less influence on our culture/society.
In fact today, as we saw with the latest Supreme Court nominee... being religious can even be considered a vice. When did that happen?
And where has it got us?
Some good. Gay people being accepted as equals, and not judged as perverts and sickos.
Having difficulty finding anything beneficial other than that.

The bad is plenty.
Look around you. Everyone is a narcissist now. And all of the problems that go with that. The country is more divided than it ever was. We are literally dangerously close to losing everything our forefathers fought for.

We got a show on a prominent channel that attempts to normalize gross sexualization of 11 year old girls.
I watched a show last night (Ratched) where a nurse masturbated a serial murderer... but the viewer warnings at the beginning of the show listed "smoking", as if seeing someone smoke is worse than sitting in your living room watching someone jerk off.
Porn, particularly incestual and sadistic porn, where the most popular "models" are girls who only months before were in high school. They are exploited, pimped out discarded like trash once no longer popular. Some scarred for life. But no one cares. You see... paying someone to have sex is illegal and unacceptable. But put a camera in the room and record it... it is all good. Because that makes sense.

You can lose your job for wearing a cross around your neck. But a guy who is sexually aroused wearing women's clothing is now a hero.
How did we get this fucked up. Where as many as 10% of teens are on anti-depressants, and another 6 percent taking behavioral modification pills.
Of those that do get married, over half fail.
We have populations in society where over 70% of kids grow up without a father significantly involved in their life. And the result of that plays itself out every weekend in cities like Chicago, Philadelphia and others.
Are we happier? Obviously not, the percentage of people in America taking anti-depressants is nearing 1 in 5.

Neither.

 

[LittleNipper]

The decline of religiosity began in America in the 1960s. And ever since year after year religion has had less and less influence on our culture/society.

.
more the decline of the desert religions than religiosity.

civil rights for some reason was a major wedge issue in the early 60's that became a liberation between generations encompassing society as a whole and oddly the rejection of the previous mccarthy era was a primary motivation that saw the collapse of the previous generation that is yet to be reconciled.
.
View attachment 398097
.
the commie haters surprisingly lost their relevance with little if any lasting effect.

not to mention the christian bible is a book of forgeries and fallacies the new generations found little in appeal for their inquisitive nature.

Show us a forgery from the Bible and a fallacy, Thank you.

.

Show us a forgery from the Bible and a fallacy, Thank you.

.
look on any page -
.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

.
the 1st century events had nothing to do with your phony messiah story remove those and a clearer picture will reveal the true religious itinerant's message of liberation theology the opposite of the corrupt christian message of servitude.
.
Secular moralism and religious moralism. Which is better?

only one is made up not better, how metaphysical life came into being.

OKay, I will look here. Is this untrue and a forgery?

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

King James Version
1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

.

OKay, I will look here. Is this untrue and a forgery?

.
you did not respond to the forgery provided -

the example you have displayed is secular as throughout that book used cunningly to shadow their errant narrative.

as requested previously provide any verifiable evidence directly from the religious itinerant a claim to being a messiah. etched in stone by their own hand.

No, the quote was first founded in the Old Testament and not lyrics by the Byrds. Your response was to look on any page. You provided no specific forgery. I'm sorry you didn't like what the Lord lead me to copy and paste.

 

[BreezeWood]

The decline of religiosity began in America in the 1960s. And ever since year after year religion has had less and less influence on our culture/society.

.
more the decline of the desert religions than religiosity.

civil rights for some reason was a major wedge issue in the early 60's that became a liberation between generations encompassing society as a whole and oddly the rejection of the previous mccarthy era was a primary motivation that saw the collapse of the previous generation that is yet to be reconciled.
.
View attachment 398097
.
the commie haters surprisingly lost their relevance with little if any lasting effect.

not to mention the christian bible is a book of forgeries and fallacies the new generations found little in appeal for their inquisitive nature.

Show us a forgery from the Bible and a fallacy, Thank you.

.

Show us a forgery from the Bible and a fallacy, Thank you.

.
look on any page -
.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

.
the 1st century events had nothing to do with your phony messiah story remove those and a clearer picture will reveal the true religious itinerant's message of liberation theology the opposite of the corrupt christian message of servitude.
.
Secular moralism and religious moralism. Which is better?

only one is made up not better, how metaphysical life came into being.

OKay, I will look here. Is this untrue and a forgery?

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

King James Version
1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

.

OKay, I will look here. Is this untrue and a forgery?

.
you did not respond to the forgery provided -

the example you have displayed is secular as throughout that book used cunningly to shadow their errant narrative.

as requested previously provide any verifiable evidence directly from the religious itinerant a claim to being a messiah. etched in stone by their own hand.

.

No, the quote was first founded in the Old Testament and not lyrics by the Byrds. Your response was to look on any page. You provided no specific forgery. I'm sorry you didn't like what the Lord lead me to copy and paste.

as requested previously provide any verifiable evidence directly from the religious itinerant a claim to being a messiah. etched in stone by their own hand.

.
what was there to dislike about your secular - paste ... maybe a timex watch would help with their time issue.

again you respond without referencing the post you have responded too and its subject matter.
.

Secular moralism and religious moralism. Which is better?
.
your example would seem to answer the disingenuous o p, query ...

 

[james bond]

Secular is empirically better, and the evidence for that is that all of the desert Religions became looser and looser in their interpretations once certain aspects of their texts were deemed barbaric. Stonings, slavery, baby killing, raping, plundering, the subjugation of women...etc....was all deserted by these Religions over time when those practices became frowned upon in Secular Society.

Jeez, your writing is full of poo poo as well as your brain.

 

[LittleNipper]

It is so revealing that the party that espouses "Black Lives Matter" is the very same one that promotes the right to an abortion on demand ---- where the vast majority of the innocents tortured and then murdered are the babies of black women. Do those lives not matter? And is this not where it all begins?