Zone1 your subjective truth is not necessarily Truth, period

[forkintheroad7]

anyone who wishes to discuss their religious, scriptural beliefs and why, now that's interesting and often fun because there are a wide variety and range of Protestant beliefs.

So, you find heresy "fun"?

How about the consequences of heresy. Is Hell fun?

And if you manage, despite all the heresy in the world, to end up in Purgatory (which means you will end up in Heaven once you're sufficiently purged), you are still in for a world of hurt because Purgatory is basically Hell that eventually ends.

No, heresy is NOT fun

 

[Meriweather]

Believing in once saved always saved (for instance) is a fast-track ticket to Hell

I doubt that, at least for those faithful to Christ who have a strong belief in his power. For me, it is a very odd belief, peculiar. I very much doubt people are on a fast-track to hell because of a peculiarity.

Roots in Judaism are focused on how to live this life. Jesus taught that the Kingdom of God is at hand, meaning within our reach, in our midst. The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of heaven are defined as eternal (no beginning, no end) and as on high, with the connotation of the peoples' best and of God's rule.

This kingdom is not meant to be out of reach until our death, but within reach right now. The Way is narrow, but we can enter into living at our best, and following/obeying God's Rule right here, right now. While The Way is narrow, it is possible. It is Jesus Way, The Way of Salvation, meant for us to live today.

Salvation is not meant to be some kind of pass we obtain that is presented upon our death as our entrance into a heavenly afterlife. We are meant to enter into and live a heavenly earthly life first. We enter into the business of salvation and are participants in Christ's work of salvation. He is the Master of the Salvation Vineyard, and we are his people. He is the vine and we are the branches.

"Once Saved Always Saved" can give the impression of "Once and Done" with no more to do. This is different than viewing salvation as "This is the beginning! And I'll be here for eternity! Unless I go the route of the Prodigal Son, I'll be a servant of the Master beginning today for life everlasting.

But perhaps those who are adherents to Once Saved Always Saved would like to discuss their own service to the Lord.

 

[forkintheroad7]

I doubt that, at least for those faithful to Christ who have a strong belief in his power. For me, it is a very odd belief, peculiar. I very much doubt people are on a fast-track to hell because of a peculiarity.

I stopped reading at the first incorrect comment. Jesus does not have the power to abolish all our sins AND the consequences thereof IF we do not LET HIM. And if we love sin, if we hold onto it (and sin is tenacious in holding onto US) we are NOT letting Him. The sin over-rules us, at least until we expiate it through Penances

 

[forkintheroad7]

I doubt that, at least for those faithful to Christ who have a strong belief in his power. For me, it is a very odd belief, peculiar. I very much doubt people are on a fast-track to hell because of a peculiarity.

Roots in Judaism are focused on how to live this life. Jesus taught that the Kingdom of God is at hand, meaning within our reach, in our midst.

You are misled. Check out the life of St Vincent Labre. He lived for the next world and ONLY the next. I am not saying I agree with everything he did, but he was correct to reject the world, the flesh and the devil. Miracles happened as soon as he died, in the geographical area where he died.

 

[Meriweather]

I stopped reading at the first incorrect comment. Jesus does not have the power to abolish all our sins AND the consequences thereof IF we do not LET HIM. And if we love sin, if we hold onto it (and sin is tenacious in holding onto US) we are NOT letting Him. The sin over-rules us, at least until we expiate it through Penances

My point was "Once Saved, Always Saved" is not a sin. Necessarily.

 

[Meriweather]

You are misled. Check out the life of St Vincent Labre. He lived for the next world and ONLY the next. I am not saying I agree with everything he did, but he was correct to reject the world, the flesh and the devil. Miracles happened as soon as he died, in the geographical area where he died.

Beginning eternal life during our life on earth rather than waiting until we die to begin living eternal life is far from being misled.

 

[otto105]

I've noticed some things about humans and human nature in my time on Planet E

I've noticed that most people do not care about what is really true, but only what they SAY is true, what they BELIEVE is true, what their pastor says is true or maybe their parents or friends or whomever.

I found Truth in the Catholic Faith, the real Catholic faith, not the 2 branches of the Church that are in error. "Seek and you will find," Jesus said. So I did. But it seems that most people do not do that.. or most people don't.. whether I met them in person or on the net.

That's scary. And then you have these places / websites that censor speech. It's like OMG! You can't say THAT truth.. Oops, I mean that opinion! That may cause people to actually reject some falsehood that serves our agenda better --or whatever.

You get called all kinds of names when you say the Truth, period.. not just some trite, hackneyed, socially-acceptable un-truth that "tickles the ears" as the Word calls it.

It's like we're still in .. not high school, but junior high.. where you are supposed to say whatever it takes to get along or be popular. Wow.. no wonder Jesus said few make it. He said His way would NOT be popular..

The old saying Truth [objective truth] hurts is indeed true. But avoiding Truth because it hurts will get you to .. eternal hurt.

Example: There is a poster here who attacks me every time I post something, but he purports to be Catholic. The thing is, he is in one of the branches of the Catholic Church that is in egregious ERROR. There are 3 branches nowadays and only one of them teaches TRUE, historically-supported Catholicism.. you know, the Catholicism the ancient saints adhered to. Anyone "canonized" after 1962 is likely NOT a saint at all.. It's a long story, but a very interesting one for anyone who cares about the history of Christianity.

But this poster who has not read up on what I'm talking about just KNOWS I'm a Protestant, as he called me. Other people here, after reading my posts, would find THAT laughable.. But it's like on the internet, everyone just has to get their jabs in, vent their frustrations on.. well, just anyone, even if that person believes much of what he does! There's something really, really wrong there.

Every religion is man made based on political control.

 

[Meriweather]

Every religion is man made based on political control.

That merely includes religion. Everything is man made based on political control. Political fingers crawl into everything and are much worse than cockroaches.

 

[otto105]

That merely includes religion. Everything is man made based on political control. Political fingers crawl into everything and are much worse than cockroaches.

Which describes religion.

 

[Meriweather]

Which describes religion.

Actually, religion is the place where individuals have the most freedom and are focused on something much greater than political leaders and cockroaches.

 

[otto105]

Actually, religion is the place where individuals have the most freedom and are focused on something much greater than political leaders and cockroaches.

No, it’s where they show control.

 

[Meriweather]

No, it’s where they show control.

You're not a person of belief/faith, then?

 

[forkintheroad7]

Beginning eternal life during our life on earth rather than waiting until we die to begin living eternal life is far from being misled.

I didn't say otherwise. Also, I made a mistake on that saint's first name. It is Benedict Labre, not Vincent. But I don't think you would like him one bit LOL

 

[forkintheroad7]

I doubt that, at least for those faithful to Christ who have a strong belief in his power. For me, it is a very odd belief, peculiar. I very much doubt people are on a fast-track to hell because of a peculiarity.

Wow, this is incredibly clueless. Maybe you have never committed a mortal sin? Only someone who is truly ignorant of the devastating effects of mortal sin would say this. I just STARTED to commit a mortal sin many moons ago (stopped myself) and could FEEL the loss of grace, which means something was wrong btwn God and me, so I went immediately to confession.. novus ordo priest because that's all I knew in those days long ago. But fortunately, he was one of the caring ones, probably totally sincere (despite being in NO). I felt like a great weight had been lifted off me after he absolved me.. Yet, in a few minutes after the confession, I also could sense that I had many penances and prayers to do b4 getting back... to where I was b4 with the Lord.

People make light of sin. They accept this HERESY of once saved always saved that is totally from Satan, a way to drag them to Hell. That is what he lives for.

 

[Meriweather]

It is Benedict Labre, not Vincent. But I don't think you would like him one bit LOL

I knew who you meant. You jumped to the wrong conclusion about the other.

 

[Meriweather]

Wow, this is incredibly clueless. Maybe you have never committed a mortal sin? Only someone who is truly ignorant of the devastating effects of mortal sin would say this. I just STARTED to commit a mortal sin many moons ago (stopped myself) and could FEEL the loss of grace, which means something was wrong btwn God and me, so I went immediately to confession.. novus ordo priest because that's all I knew in those days long ago. But fortunately, he was one of the caring ones, probably totally sincere (despite being in NO). I felt like a great weight had been lifted off me after he absolved me.. Yet, in a few minutes after the confession, I also could sense that I had many penances and prayers to do b4 getting back... to where I was b4 with the Lord.

People make light of sin. They accept this HERESY of once saved always saved that is totally from Satan, a way to drag them to Hell. That is what he lives for.

"For where your treasure is, there is your heart..." Works the other way, too. Where your heart is, there is your treasure.

Based on your posts/threads here, your heart seems to be focused on attack...and what is wrong with everyone and everything. You spend a lot of time thinking about hell.

Every Christian here has love and acclaim for Jesus Christ. Almost every discussion is a heartfelt insistence and exhortation from all to all of, "If you would understand Jesus and his teachings from this perspective, you would get so much more!" Each one of us has gifts on offer, and each one of us already treasures the gift we have, but never lose sight of people heartfelt wish to share his/her own gift.

My prayer time is spent focused on Jesus pointing out all the ways we can go the right way and do what is good and loving.

What happens when we spend all our time focused on what is wrong with this, that, him, her, and the other, and everything we need to avoid? We lose our focus on what is right and we spend so much time focused on avoiding what is bad, doing what is good and loving fades into the background. Instead of being the primary focus, it becomes the secondary.

Being so focused on disagreeing with Vatican II, takes time away from the focus of all Jesus did right, all his commands and teachings that have their own power to enhance one's life. How does complaining about Vatican II enhance your life? Perhaps it is different for me, because I can still go to a Latin Mass. I can see the symbolic meanings of the way Mass unfolds/unfolded in the past--and it is beautiful. I still go to Mass in English, and also understand the symbolic meanings of how Mass unfolds for most in the present. Those changes as well hold great, symbolic meanings. Both are beautiful, both are intent with sincere worship of God, and heartfelt thanksgiving of what Christ has done for us, and the Holy Spirit continues doing for us.

 

[forkintheroad7]

"For where your treasure is, there is your heart..." Works the other way, too. Where your heart is, there is your treasure.

Based on your posts/threads here, your heart seems to be focused on attack...and what is wrong with everyone and everything. You spend a lot of time thinking about hell.

Maybe I don't want anyone going there. You, on the other hand, do not appear to care one bit.

And a lot of what you say is NOT Catholic teaching

AND

You care more about people being "nice" to one another than you do about TRUTH (even though those living against truth end up in Hell)

 

[forkintheroad7]

Being so focused on disagreeing with Vatican II, takes time away from the focus of all Jesus did right, all his commands and teachings that have their own power to enhance one's life.

Really?

The Catholic Church IS Jesus, as more than one canonized (b4 Vatican II) saint has said. Anyone supposedly canonized after V2 is not necessarily a true saint so I don't count them.

If the Church is Jesus, one should KNOW as much as possible about the Church. Show me where that logic is wrong?

But I guess you don't get that. You don't want to give up your comfy life in the novus ordo sect

 

[Meriweather]

Maybe I don't want anyone going there. You, on the other hand, do not appear to care one bit.

I don't see how flinging the words, "You're going to hell" at someone keeps anyone out of hell. A better way is to invite others to take a look at the lovely life in God's Kingdom.

And a lot of what you say is NOT Catholic teaching

AND

You care more about people being "nice" to one another than you do about TRUTH (even though those living against truth end up in Hell)

Actually, it is Catholic teachings. I tend to study the Catechism of the Catholic Church, of actively listening to homilies and at Catholic Bible studies. I also do a great deal of my own research.

I doubt anyone here thinks of me as particularly nice, and having taught for twenty years at the middle school level...I got over worrying about being nice on day two.

Keep in mind it is not God's will that anyone end up in hell. Nothing is more powerful than God's will. Since I was a little kid, I focus on praying for souls in purgatory. No doubt I lack God's power to keep people out of hell, but I know for a fact I can be of some assistance when it comes to souls in purgatory.

 

[forkintheroad7]

I don't see how flinging the words, "You're going to hell" at someone keeps anyone out of hell. A better way is to invite others to take a look at the lovely life in God's Kingdom.

So now you resort to LYING! Wow.. some Catholic you are, but I already knew you are not a true Catholic. I never said "You're going to Hell" to anyone unless I also added "unless you repent" which, I don't even say that very often

Keep in mind it is not God's will that anyone end up in hell.

As if I said otherwise??