Gates and Zuckerberg used their brains to create something from nothing. They created DOS and Facebook. They built it. They also provided a great many people with opportunities, employment and better lives that THEY WOULD NOT HAVE HAD. Again, run along comrade. These workers are the transmission of the vehicle--without the motor they are nothing but lumps of funny shaped iron. Conversely, the motor can operate independently albeit slower.
Concerned American, you keep insisting that billionaires are the vital “motor” of production and that workers, without them, would be nothing. The reality is exactly the opposite. No billionaire can turn a profit or produce a single thing without a workforce to design, assemble, market, and distribute whatever’s being sold. The technology you’re praising as proof of the great genius of Gates and Zuckerberg was largely funded by the public sector, like universities, government grants, and military research. Far from “creating something from nothing,” they took advantage of collective investments and then hired thousands of people to do the grunt work that transforms any big idea into actual products and profits.
Whatever was left after paying salaries, the electric bill..etc, wasn't reinvested into the company but rather went to purchase water-front mansions, Ferraris, and mega yachts, is what I would identify as wasteful hoarding, a waste of potential for the growth and development of the productive enterprise (in this case, Walmart).
My example of Gates and Zuckerberg flies directly in the face of your assertion. Had they not CREATED DOS and Facebook, there would be NO Meta or Microsoft or the millions of jobs that THEY CREATED. Now run around in your head some more. You need to get out more.
DOS and Facebook received no help until they were created, LOL, BTW, government tax $$$ used for the creation of jobs is not your communist idea of the workers creating anything. The worker has one product---LABOR. It is a commodity. It will only be compensated to the extent that the market will bear.
What do you do with the profits of your labor? Maybe you should give it all to the downtrodden workers, comrade.
Whatever it was. I don't have to come up with a specific number to be correct on this issue. I just defined the parameters. EVERYTHING that doesn't fall within what I just said. It's there clearly stated. What part of that don't you understand Todd?
LMAO, self employed? You mean those future billionaires who make it on their own until it is time to expand and grow? When they hire people whose only product is the COMMODITY of their LABOR--that sells for what the market will bear. Capitalism 101
Your question tries to dodge the main issue by shifting the spotlight onto my personal spending as if I'm the one exploiting others. I work for my living; I don’t pay people less than what they produce so I can pocket the difference. Those who rake in massive profits by skimming off the labor of others, then blow that surplus on extravagant luxuries, are the ones perpetuating injustice, not an ordinary worker who earns a paycheck and uses it to survive.
You're dodging by trying to shift the spotlight onto their personal spending. You're a hypocrite who is grasping at any straw to justify your BS.
Do you pay more than posted price for anything you buy? Then, yup, you're promoting what you are complaining about and pocketing the difference.
It is all relative. People who are working in the US are not merely surviving. LOL, people in a conservative 80% of the world would love to have the standard of living the US enjoys. Ask the Uyghurs in China about being exploited.
Build a better mousetrap. Someone who makes candles doesn't enjoy the same standard of living as someone who makes high tech lighting systems. Why? Because ANYONE CAN DO IT. Your labor is only as valuable as you make it. If all you can do is make widgets, you get widget wages. And no, a person with no skills will NEVER make the money that someone with marketable skills will. Same for the difference between you and Gates.
No one is being exploited. You can get an education, obtain a skill, or build a business and become one of those billionaires you so hate. It is all on you and whining on here incessantly isn't going to get any of those things accomplished. QUIT WHINING.
They are getting fair value for their labor. The market sets the value of the labor.
Capital is either produced by human labor or a government printing and spending. Hello?
Sir, we don't need them to create jobs. Their "fiefdoms" aren't the only source of employment. Haven't you been reading what I've been posting?
The cashier or stocker invests their labor power (presence, time, energy, their very lives), which produces something of value and collectively workers produce everything (mass production is a social process and endeavor, not a private one, hence private property should be illegal, only personal and public property should be allowed in society). There's no need for the capitalist employer (i.e. exploiter). Your little kings are dethroned by the working class, we don't need them. They need us much more than we need them.
View attachment 1073118
As technology advances this point becomes clearer and more pronounced.
Capital or money is acquired through various means but what allows capital to exist and function in society as a medium of exchange is human labor which ultimately produces what is exchanged. The day such conditions no longer exist, due to advanced automation and artificial intelligence, is the day capitalism dies and is replaced with socialism. Otherwise, we fall back into a form of feudalism. No thanks, I'll take socialism.
Your beloved capitalist employers/exploiters should be the ones grateful that the working class in the US is comatose and completely brainwashed. Otherwise, they would have zero tolerance for their little capitalist fiefdoms, "creating jobs". We don't need them, creating any jobs for us, never did. Society can organize production without private profit-pursuing exploiters of labor and their private property. Capitalists are unnecessary middlemen and parasite leeches, amassing wealth from the labor (sweat, tears, even the blood) of others.
MASS PRODUCTION IS A SOCIAL PROCESS AND ENDEAVOR, NOT A PRIVATE ONE.
No masters, just elected leadership, in both government and the workplace. Adam Smith the father of industrial age, modern capitalism, wrote about capitalist employers, calling them masters:
"What are the common wages of labor, depends everywhere upon the contract usually made between those two parties, whose interests are by no means the same. The workmen desire to get as much, the masters to give as little as possible. The former are disposed to combine (To form labor unions) in order to raise, the latter in order to lower the wages of labor.
It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. The masters, being fewer in number, can combine (In the form of chambers of commerce, industry-specific associations, and guilds, super-PACs, non-profit front organizations/NGOs, armies of lobbyists, think tanks staffed by Ivy League educated analysts and scholars who write the papers and legislation that they hand to the lobbyists, to give to their cronies in the US Congress) much more easily; and the law, besides, authorizes, or at least does not prohibit their combinations, while it prohibits those of the workmen."
NO MORE MASTERS, ONLY FULLY ACCOUNTABLE LEADERSHIP (PREFERABLY ELECTED OR AT LEAST APPOINTED BY THOSE WHO ARE). DEMOCRACY BOTH IN POLITICS AND IN THE WORKPLACE.
RULE OF THE PEOPLE.
I thought you were better informed on how the government prints money and what are its budgetary constraints. Unlike in the past, we now have a sovereign fiat currency, no longer pegged to gold, if anything it's tied to PRODUCTION. Our GDP. The currency’s real-world value depends heavily on productive capacity, but yes, I'm aware, that there’s no formal rule that “pegs” the dollar to GDP in the same way we once pegged it to gold. Don't get pedantic, relax.
Moreover, the capitalist parasites who amass wealth from the labor of others, if required would pay higher taxes, sure. Yes?
Society can restrict how much money one of its members can possess, both in liquidity and assets. So for example, we could say that anyone with more than an annual net income of 12 million dollars would be taxed 100% above 12 million. They can keep a million monthly (poor child, only a million a month, geez, that's horrible), and personally own up to 100 million dollars in assets, as far as real estate properties, yacht/s, Ferraris, gold..etc.
No billionaires allowed, that's WAY TOO MUCH POWER (more money than a freaking country), for one person to have in a democratic society. Being free Todd, doesn't imply doing whatever you want. Sometimes what you want isn't necessarily what's best for you or the society you live in. We don't live in a vacuum, or alone like a space hermit, a billion miles away, but in a human society, with others, here on Earth.
Not necessarily. What type of government do we want to have? Do we want an absolute monarchy or totalitarian regime (like a privately owned and run business enterprise), or do we want to live in a democratic, constitutional Republic (more like a worker-owned and run cooperative)? Hmmmm? I choose the later. How about you Todd? I'm a council-socialist. I believe in the case of our country, we already have much of the institutional structure in place to easily, with some effort, adopt and manage a council-socialist system of government.
Congressional districts throughout our country would have politically oriented, publicly owned, and managed community centers, where the residents of that district can participate in elections, attend council meetings, classes and events..etc. The American people will have the ability to recall members of the US Congress, when they are proven, through a simple process, to be incompetent or corrupt.
We elect our delegates to the US Congress, or the local city council, or the state legislature. If they're stupid or not serving our interests, we recall and replace them. Elections are held whenever the people sign for one. You don't have to wait till the next scheduled election campaign. There's a process and procedure for candidates to present themselves to the public, offering their "delegate services" (What are they offering? What will they do for us?).
Try doing that today Todd, under our current system. Good luck.
Why would they do that? Privately owned and run businesses aren't the only source for jobs, and if they are, we can change that. I've already mentioned how in several earlier posts. There is no need for little-king capitalists/parasites, to exploit and commodify human beings for private capital accumulation.
Private property should be immediately abolished and the only property allowed should be personal, public, and Productive-Collective Properties. Private property is all property used to exploit human labor for a profit. Personal property is all property for personal use. Public property is all property for public use (the commons or publicly owned and run facilities, parks, infrastructure..etc) and Productive-Collective Property is a special category of property, collectively owned and operated by workers, working in collaboration with the government (a democratic, republican government under the heel of the working-class).
“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary” (Karl Marx)
Definitions:
Socialism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Communism - Wikipedia
Marxism - Wikipedia
Withering away of the state - Wikipedia
Capital is either produced by human labor or a government printing and spending. Hello?
Sir, we don't need them to create jobs. Their "fiefdoms" aren't the only source of employment. Haven't you been reading what I've been posting?
The cashier or stocker invests their labor power (presence, time, energy, their very lives), which produces something of value and collectively workers produce everything (mass production is a social process and endeavor, not a private one, hence private property should be illegal, only personal and public property should be allowed in society). There's no need for the capitalist employer (i.e. exploiter). Your little kings are dethroned by the working class, we don't need them. They need us much more than we need them.
View attachment 1073118
As technology advances this point becomes clearer and more pronounced.
Capital or money is acquired through various means but what allows capital to exist and function in society as a medium of exchange is human labor which ultimately produces what is exchanged. The day such conditions no longer exist, due to advanced automation and artificial intelligence, is the day capitalism dies and is replaced with socialism. Otherwise, we fall back into a form of feudalism. No thanks, I'll take socialism.
Your beloved capitalist employers/exploiters should be the ones grateful that the working class in the US is comatose and completely brainwashed. Otherwise, they would have zero tolerance for their little capitalist fiefdoms, "creating jobs". We don't need them, creating any jobs for us, never did. Society can organize production without private profit-pursuing exploiters of labor and their private property. Capitalists are unnecessary middlemen and parasite leeches, amassing wealth from the labor (sweat, tears, even the blood) of others.
MASS PRODUCTION IS A SOCIAL PROCESS AND ENDEAVOR, NOT A PRIVATE ONE.
No masters, just elected leadership, in both government and the workplace. Adam Smith the father of industrial age, modern capitalism, wrote about capitalist employers, calling them masters:
"What are the common wages of labor, depends everywhere upon the contract usually made between those two parties, whose interests are by no means the same. The workmen desire to get as much, the masters to give as little as possible. The former are disposed to combine (To form labor unions) in order to raise, the latter in order to lower the wages of labor.
It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. The masters, being fewer in number, can combine (In the form of chambers of commerce, industry-specific associations, and guilds, super-PACs, non-profit front organizations/NGOs, armies of lobbyists, think tanks staffed by Ivy League educated analysts and scholars who write the papers and legislation that they hand to the lobbyists, to give to their cronies in the US Congress) much more easily; and the law, besides, authorizes, or at least does not prohibit their combinations, while it prohibits those of the workmen."
NO MORE MASTERS, ONLY FULLY ACCOUNTABLE LEADERSHIP (PREFERABLY ELECTED OR AT LEAST APPOINTED BY THOSE WHO ARE). DEMOCRACY BOTH IN POLITICS AND IN THE WORKPLACE.
RULE OF THE PEOPLE.
I thought you were better informed on how the government prints money and what are its budgetary constraints. Unlike in the past, we now have a sovereign fiat currency, no longer pegged to gold, if anything it's tied to PRODUCTION. Our GDP. The currency’s real-world value depends heavily on productive capacity, but yes, I'm aware, that there’s no formal rule that “pegs” the dollar to GDP in the same way we once pegged it to gold. Don't get pedantic, relax.
Moreover, the capitalist parasites who amass wealth from the labor of others, if required would pay higher taxes, sure. Yes?
Society can restrict how much money one of its members can possess, both in liquidity and assets. So for example, we could say that anyone with more than an annual net income of 12 million dollars would be taxed 100% above 12 million. They can keep a million monthly (poor child, only a million a month, geez, that's horrible), and personally own up to 100 million dollars in assets, as far as real estate properties, yacht/s, Ferraris, gold..etc.
No billionaires allowed, that's WAY TOO MUCH POWER (more money than a freaking country), for one person to have in a democratic society. Being free Todd, doesn't imply doing whatever you want. Sometimes what you want isn't necessarily what's best for you or the society you live in. We don't live in a vacuum, or alone like a space hermit, a billion miles away, but in a human society, with others, here on Earth.
Not necessarily. What type of government do we want to have? Do we want an absolute monarchy or totalitarian regime (like a privately owned and run business enterprise), or do we want to live in a democratic, constitutional Republic (more like a worker-owned and run cooperative)? Hmmmm? I choose the later. How about you Todd? I'm a council-socialist. I believe in the case of our country, we already have much of the institutional structure in place to easily, with some effort, adopt and manage a council-socialist system of government.
Congressional districts throughout our country would have politically oriented, publicly owned, and managed community centers, where the residents of that district can participate in elections, attend council meetings, classes and events..etc. The American people will have the ability to recall members of the US Congress, when they are proven, through a simple process, to be incompetent or corrupt.
We elect our delegates to the US Congress, or the local city council, or the state legislature. If they're stupid or not serving our interests, we recall and replace them. Elections are held whenever the people sign for one. You don't have to wait till the next scheduled election campaign. There's a process and procedure for candidates to present themselves to the public, offering their "delegate services" (What are they offering? What will they do for us?).
Try doing that today Todd, under our current system. Good luck.
Why would they do that? Privately owned and run businesses aren't the only source for jobs, and if they are, we can change that. I've already mentioned how in several earlier posts. There is no need for little-king capitalists/parasites, to exploit and commodify human beings for private capital accumulation.
Private property should be immediately abolished and the only property allowed should be personal, public, and Productive-Collective Properties. Private property is all property used to exploit human labor for a profit. Personal property is all property for personal use. Public property is all property for public use (the commons or publicly owned and run facilities, parks, infrastructure..etc) and Productive-Collective Property is a special category of property, collectively owned and operated by workers, working in collaboration with the government (a democratic, republican government under the heel of the working-class).
“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary” (Karl Marx)
Definitions:
Socialism - Wikipedia
Communism - Wikipedia
Marxism - Wikipedia
Withering away of the state - Wikipedia
