POLL: Let's try a COVID compromise, shall we?

[Mac1958]

The Vaccination spreads the Virus, and does not stop the virus not even one bit. Neither do masks. It's all a big lie, and nothing but Big Pharma and Big Fascist Global Government taking away everyone's Right to be Free.

I know that's what you're told in your world. Nothing I can do about that.

 

[The Original Tree]

I know that's what you're told in your world. Nothing I can do about that.

You mean, nothing that you will do about it. You are totally fine with it.

 

[Mac1958]

You mean, nothing that you will do about it. You are totally fine with it.

Sure thing, Captain Hyperbole.

 

[Colin norris]

You sound like the men who pushed Thalidomide on pregnant women. I'll bet you get off on it.

It was the women who WANTED the drug. Even believers wanted it also.
It wasn't a vaccine as we know today. Just supposed to stop morning sickness.

 

[Mac1958]

Holy crap, looks like ol' Mac may have called it again.

Of course, we're told by "some" that ICUs are empty and that COVID is a hoax and just a little flu, but this story isn't for their universe.

And Texas, of all places.

Vaccination Status May Be Considered To Get ICU Beds At Dallas-Area Hospitals If Covid Spread Worsens

Covid cases are skyrocketing with no signs of a slowdown there.

www.forbes.com

If North Texas starts running out of ICU beds, doctors may have to consider coronavirus vaccination status as a factor in who gets priority care—a situation health officials hope to avoid but worry is becoming increasingly likely—with the vaccinated potentially being prioritized for treatment on the assumption that they’re more likely to survive.

Members of the North Texas Mass Critical Care Guideline Task Force held a meeting last week about the worsening Covid crisis in the area, and discussed the possibility that doctors might need to use Covid vaccination status to prioritize care in extreme scenarios.

 

[Skylar]

I've changed my opinion over the last week on vaccinations. There are clearly a lot of people who, for their own reasons, are going to refuse to get vaccinated. There's not a damn thing I can do about that, so I'm just trying to deal with reality here. So to make this as clear as I can:

1. I support your right to not get vaccinated.
2. I am against forcing you to get vaccinated.

There. Nice and clear. I figure the only way to get past this mess is to either get vaccinated or get sick and develop an immunity that way, if you don't die. I'll look at it like a controlled burn, where you just get rid of the wasted underbrush. Fine. We can all move on now. And, I won't even ask you to not spread this virus, especially to kids, since we're now seeing an increase in hospitalizations there. I know that asking you to at least be careful for them is an "attack" on your "freedom" and "liberty", and we all know how you feel about THAT.

There. You are free to exercise your freedom and your liberty, and the rest of us will get off your backs. In exchange, I will propose this fully free market compromise:

1. Any business is free to install and enforce mask mandates to protect their employees and patrons. If you don't like that, you are free to exercise your free market rights and shop at their competition.
2. Any hospital is free to (a) put voluntarily non-vaccinated COVID patients on a lower priority for both ICUs and private rooms so that regular patients with other problems can be served as they should be, and (b) charge whatever extra COVID fees they feel are appropriate, whether it is upon admission, on a daily basis, or both. In cash. Up front. A fully free market solution.

Can we agree? Vaxxers? Anti-Vaxxers?

Unvaccinated Couple Desperate for Kids To Get Shots After Ending Up in ICU

Lydia Rodriguez and her husband are on ventilators in a Texas hospital after contracting coronavirus in July.

www.newsweek.com

Most of that seems reasonable. Folks who voluntarily choose not to get the vaccine and then get COVID......should go to the back of the line for medical care. Other people shouldn't have to pay the consequences for their bad decision making. Our ICU beds should not be filled with unvaccinated COVID infectees.

Those hospital beds should go to the breakthrough cases of the vaccinated, they should go to all the other folks whose medical emergencies the ICU beds normally go to: those in car accidents, those recovering from surgery, transplants, cancer treatments, etc..

Only after all of these other groups are serviced, only after all these other groups are receiving the care they need......should the COVID infected unvaccinated get what's left over.

 

[Mac1958]

Most of that seems reasonable. Folks who voluntarily choose not to get the vaccine and then get COVID......should go to the back of the line for medical care. Other people shouldn't have to pay the consequences for their bad decision making. Our ICU beds should not be filled with unvaccinated COVID infectees.

Those hospital beds should go to the breakthrough cases of the vaccinated, they should go to all the other folks whose medical emergencies the ICU beds normally go to: those in car accidents, those recovering from surgery, transplants, cancer treatments, etc..

Only after all of these other groups are serviced, only after all these other groups are receiving the care they need......should the COVID infected unvaccinated get what's left over.

I have to admit, I was a little surprised to see that. For them to even THINK about this -- that indicates how bad this is.

I can't think of another time I've seen this.

 

[Skylar]

I have to admit, I was a little surprised to see that. For them to even THINK about this -- that indicates how bad this is.

I can't think of another time I've seen this.

Its predictably bad. What did the unvaccinated think was going to happen? They refuse to protect themselves or take common sense precautions....and then what?

Covid magically disappears? It magically transforms into a disease that *isn't* deadly, that *hasn't* killed millions?

I feel for the unvaccinated folks that are hospitalized and dying from COVID. I don't want anyone to suffer that kind of death. But they've consciously chosen that negative outcome. And responsible people shouldn't have to suffer because of the poor judgment of the unvaccinated.

Part of personal responsibility is taking ownership of bad choices and accepting the consequences. Not blaming everyone else and insisting that others pay the price for your poor choices.

 

[Mac1958]

What did the unvaccinated think was going to happen? They refuse to protect themselves or take common sense precautions....and then what?

Their opinions and actions are based solely on what they're told in their world.

This can't be overstated. This alternate reality is a real thing, the result of three decades of conditioning. Now, it's its own separate, fully functioning, closed circuit, informational ecosystem. Really. Literally. Not a joke.

 

[j-mac]

Most of that seems reasonable. Folks who voluntarily choose not to get the vaccine and then get COVID......should go to the back of the line for medical care. Other people shouldn't have to pay the consequences for their bad decision making. Our ICU beds should not be filled with unvaccinated COVID infectees.

Those hospital beds should go to the breakthrough cases of the vaccinated, they should go to all the other folks whose medical emergencies the ICU beds normally go to: those in car accidents, those recovering from surgery, transplants, cancer treatments, etc..

Only after all of these other groups are serviced, only after all these other groups are receiving the care they need......should the COVID infected unvaccinated get what's left over.

What other rights would you like to take from unvaxxed people?

 

[j-mac]

Their opinions and actions are based solely on what they're told in their world.

This can't be overstated. This alternate reality is a real thing, the result of three decades of conditioning. Now, it's its own separate, fully functioning, closed circuit, informational ecosystem. Really. Literally. Not a joke.

Projection

 

[Skylar]

Their opinions and actions are based solely on what they're told in their world.

This can't be overstated. This alternate reality is a real thing, the result of three decades of conditioning. Now, it's its own separate, fully functioning, closed circuit, informational ecosystem. Really. Literally. Not a joke.

I don't disagree. Trump's rise to power was a product of the same forces. The GOP has been feeding their base a steady stream of emotion based reasoning and conspiracy batshit for decades. From Vince Foster to the imminent 'police state' to the Birthers, to 'American Carnage' to the Big Lie.......its an unrelenting drumbeat of improbable conspiracy and panty shitting hysterics

The GOP has lost control of the beast. Trump didn't out reason the GOP leadership.....he out batshitted them. And that unrelenting assault on reason, on evidence....it has consequences.

And we're seeing them in the COVID dead.

 

[Skylar]

What other rights would you like to take from unvaxxed people?

What 'rights' would be stripped from them? Virtually every hospital in the nation is private. Why would prioritizing care for the vaccinated or those with regular medical emergencies deny any unvaccinated person a 'right'?

If you get in a car wreck, you're taken care of. If you refuse to take responsibility for protecting yourself with a vaccine the midst of a pandemic and catch a preventable and ludicrously contagious disease .....why should the guy in the car wreck, or who is receiving cancer treatments, or had a heart attack, or who took responsibility for themselves give up their hospital bed to you?

You should bear responsibility for your own poor choices. Not other people.

 

[SweetSue92]

Holy crap, looks like ol' Mac may have called it again.

Of course, we're told by "some" that ICUs are empty and that COVID is a hoax and just a little flu, but this story isn't for their universe.

And Texas, of all places.

Vaccination Status May Be Considered To Get ICU Beds At Dallas-Area Hospitals If Covid Spread Worsens

Covid cases are skyrocketing with no signs of a slowdown there.

www.forbes.com

If North Texas starts running out of ICU beds, doctors may have to consider coronavirus vaccination status as a factor in who gets priority care—a situation health officials hope to avoid but worry is becoming increasingly likely—with the vaccinated potentially being prioritized for treatment on the assumption that they’re more likely to survive.

Members of the North Texas Mass Critical Care Guideline Task Force held a meeting last week about the worsening Covid crisis in the area, and discussed the possibility that doctors might need to use Covid vaccination status to prioritize care in extreme scenarios.

They already reversed it, "Ole Mac"

Way to go

 

[Mac1958]

They already reversed it, "Ole Mac"

Way to go

In Normal World, the fact that they even considered it is remarkable. Unprecedented.

In your world, well, I just don't care any more. You're just a Trumpster.

 

[Skylar]

In Normal World, the fact that they even considered it is remarkable. Unprecedented.

In your world, well, I just don't care any more. You're just a Trumpster.

Yup. If a healthcare system isn't stretched to its limits, of course the unvaccinated get care. But when people with ordinary medical emergencies can't get care because of the irresponsibility of the unvaccinated who fill up the hospital beds after refusing the vaccine?

No.

Under those circumstances, the unvaccinated should go to the back of the line. Poor judgment has consequences.

 

[SweetSue92]

In Normal World, the fact that they even considered it is remarkable. Unprecedented.

In your world, well, I just don't care any more. You're just a Trumpster.

I hope this is all an act, for your sake.

 

[Mac1958]

Yup. If a healthcare system isn't stretched to its limits, of course the unvaccinated get care. But when people with ordinary medical emergencies can't get care because of the irresponsibility of the unvaccinated who fill up the hospital beds after refusing the vaccine?

No.

Under those circumstances, the unvaccinated should go to the back of the line. Poor judgment has consequences.

It's mind-blowing that they would even consider this. But the system was taxed so badly during the first wave that they have to make projections.

All of this is mind-blowing. I should know better than to make assumptions -- I assumed getting to +/- 75% was only a matter of time. Not this.

 

[j-mac]

What 'rights' would be stripped from them? Virtually every hospital in the nation is private. Why would prioritizing care for the vaccinated or those with regular medical emergencies deny any unvaccinated person a 'right'?

If you get in a car wreck, you're taken care of. If you refuse to take responsibility for protecting yourself with a vaccine the midst of a pandemic and catch a preventable and ludicrously contagious disease .....why should the guy in the car wreck, or who is receiving cancer treatments, or had a heart attack, or who took responsibility for themselves give up their hospital bed to you?

You should bear responsibility for your own poor choices. Not other people.

Doctors take a hypocratic oath….I simply asked what else you’d like to deny people that don’t share your views.

 

[zaangalewa]

Let's try a COVID compromise, shall we?​

The compromise could be to find a way how to be able to identify who had been the last carrier (owner or producer) of a virus, before it killed someone else - then we could bring this murderer into jail.

By the way: Who is vaccinated is safe - otherwise (in a much more "side effect infection" with covid-19 although someone is vaccinated) this situation is much better and covid-19 is much more harmless. And the partially dangerous - but always unpleasant - long covid problems are not existing at all in case someone is vaccinated.