‘Nothing Less Than a Civil War’:These White Voters on the Far Right See Doom Without Trump

[flacaltenn]

Wow! A lot of what we see here everyday....an interesting look into the far right rural voter:

‘Nothing Less Than a Civil War’: These White Voters on the Far Right See Doom Without Trump

Great American Pizza & Subs, on a highway about 100 miles southeast of Las Vegas, was busier and Trumpier than usual. On any given day it serves “M.A.G.A. Subs” and “Liberty Bell Lasagna.” The “Second Amendment” pizza comes “loaded” with pepperoni and sausage. The dining room is covered in regalia praising President Trump.
But this October morning was “Trumpstock,” a small festival celebrating the president. The speakers included the local Republican congressman, Paul Gosar, and lesser-known conservative personalities. There was a fringe 2020 Senate candidate in Arizona who ran a website that published sexually explicit photos of women without their consent; a pro-Trump rapper whose lyrics include a racist slur aimed at Barack Obama; and a North Carolina activist who once said of Muslims, “I will kill every one of them before they get to me.”

Too long Edited

Wow... ALL THAT superfluous political analysis from one little party a a local pizza joint... Report it to the impeachment mgrs whydontya?????

You're beyond the TDSydrome.. You're into derangement and conspiracy world....

 

[Votto]

We can thank talk radio and nutter "news" sites for whipping these people into this frenzy.

If there is violence, if people die, they will have enabled it.
.

The ultimate goal of a totalitarian regime is for an uprising to give justification for clamping down on our freedoms.

That is why the Left has been at war with morality/Christianity. Without it, society will devolve into a nation of convicts, and the only thing left to do is build a wall around them and hire a Warden.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Wow! A lot of what we see here everyday....an interesting look into the far right rural voter:

‘Nothing Less Than a Civil War’: These White Voters on the Far Right See Doom Without Trump

Great American Pizza & Subs, on a highway about 100 miles southeast of Las Vegas, was busier and Trumpier than usual. On any given day it serves “M.A.G.A. Subs” and “Liberty Bell Lasagna.” The “Second Amendment” pizza comes “loaded” with pepperoni and sausage. The dining room is covered in regalia praising President Trump.
But this October morning was “Trumpstock,” a small festival celebrating the president. The speakers included the local Republican congressman, Paul Gosar, and lesser-known conservative personalities. There was a fringe 2020 Senate candidate in Arizona who ran a website that published sexually explicit photos of women without their consent; a pro-Trump rapper whose lyrics include a racist slur aimed at Barack Obama; and a North Carolina activist who once said of Muslims, “I will kill every one of them before they get to me.”

Too long Edited

Wow... ALL THAT superfluous political analysis from one little party a a local pizza joint... Report it to the impeachment mgrs whydontya?????

You're beyond the TDSydrome.. You're into derangement and conspiracy world....

It's just an article doofus....relax. The reactions here by the usual suspects are proof of its relevancy..if not its accuracy.

 

[yidnar]

Wow! A lot of what we see here everyday....an interesting look into the far right rural voter:

‘Nothing Less Than a Civil War’: These White Voters on the Far Right See Doom Without Trump

Great American Pizza & Subs, on a highway about 100 miles southeast of Las Vegas, was busier and Trumpier than usual. On any given day it serves “M.A.G.A. Subs” and “Liberty Bell Lasagna.” The “Second Amendment” pizza comes “loaded” with pepperoni and sausage. The dining room is covered in regalia praising President Trump.
But this October morning was “Trumpstock,” a small festival celebrating the president. The speakers included the local Republican congressman, Paul Gosar, and lesser-known conservative personalities. There was a fringe 2020 Senate candidate in Arizona who ran a website that published sexually explicit photos of women without their consent; a pro-Trump rapper whose lyrics include a racist slur aimed at Barack Obama; and a North Carolina activist who once said of Muslims, “I will kill every one of them before they get to me.”

Too long Edited

how many democrats were assaulted at this festival ??? were they rioting and beating people up like the leftist shock troops ANTIFA does ??

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I'm talking troops, not over-equipped ATF/FBI/DEA goon squads.....And I don't suppose you've ever heard of posse comitatus either.

Of course i have...have you ever heard of the Ludlow Massacre? Perhaps the Pullman strike? No? Maybe the Bonus army? No? Perhaps the shelling of NYC by US Navy during the Draft Riots? Perhaps the Whiskey Rebellion? Maybe the Detroit riots? 1967? No? Kent State? Perhaps you'll argue that the National Guard is not the 'military'? LOL!
Did you know that the Labor movement is rife with the use of the military..almost always on the side of the owners..maybe that's OK?

As a veteran...I'm here to tell you..if some dipshits rise in rebellion...in enough force to actually need the military..they will fire...I hope we don't have to find that out the hard way.

The "Draft Riots" led to "Posse Comitatus" to ensure that the military would not be deployed against civilians again.

And yet..it was...many times.

The draft riots happened in 1863.

The Posse Comitatus Act passed in 1878.

The draft riots didn't have anything to do with the Posse Comitatus Act.

Reconstruction had everything to do with the Posse Comitatus Act. The south didn't want the federal government military to be able to keep occupying the former confederate states.

I really wish people would learn about things before they post. But then conservatives are way too lazy to do that.

You're such a fucking moron.

Marvel Civil War IV: The Draft and Posse Comitatus | Law and the Multiverse

Well..fuckin' moron might apply to someone who cites a comic book site for his history...ROTFLMAO!

But..from your link:

The Act was passed in 1878 in the aftermath of Reconstruction, which followed the actual American Civil War. The thrust of the Act is that the United States armed forces—Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines (the Coast Guard is excepted by case law)—are significantly limited in their ability to conduct operations on US soil. There have been very, very few times when the federal government has used actual soldiers to carry out its will on US soil.

and:

Congress and the President have significant constitutional authority to use the National Guard and even the regular army to put down “insurrection,” and a state governor’s open, armed defiance of federal law surely counts. This power derives from the Insurrection Act, which gives the President the authority to use the regular army to put down insurrection and lawlessness. The Act is in turn derived from Congress’s constitutional power “To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.” The Insurrection Act was also invoked to quell the 1992 Los Angeles riots.

Not being all that comfortable with consulting the Marvel multiverse..LOL---I looked up the Insurrection Act--very on-point for this thread..which is to say that Domestic Terrorism and insurrection are explicitly excepted from Posse Comitatus:

Insurrection Act - The Full Wiki

(1) The President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to--
(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that--
(i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; and
(ii) such violence results in a condition described in paragraph (2); or
(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrection, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition described in paragraph (2).
(2) A condition described in this paragraph is a condition that--
(A) so hinders the execution of the laws of a State or possession, as applicable, and of the United States within that State or possession, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State or possession are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(B) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

 

[Olde Europe]

Wow... ALL THAT superfluous political analysis from one little party a a local pizza joint... Report it to the impeachment mgrs whydontya?????

You're beyond the TDSydrome.. You're into derangement and conspiracy world....

It's just an article doofus....relax. The reactions here by the usual suspects are proof of its relevancy..if not its accuracy.

Let's not be that hasty, Eye.

What this article provides is a view into a segment of the American population few (if any) of us ever get to see or listen to. We get to watch all kinds of crackpots and uncanny figures at various stages of delusion up to, and including one Mr. Villalta:

Mark Villalta said he had been stockpiling firearms, in case Mr. Trump’s re-election is not successful.

“Nothing less than a civil war would happen,” Mr. Villalta said, his right hand reaching for a holstered handgun. “I don’t believe in violence, but I’ll do what I got to do.”​

That's the derangement right there, professing not to believe in violence while also stockpiling firearms and "reaching for a holstered handgun".

There are two questions the article doesn't answer (and probably can't), and these would be: 1) How prevalent is the described derangement, and, 2) how much coordination is there going on between deranged groups. Both bear on the issue of this thread, since a "Civil War" - or somewhat broader, widespread violence - requires that there is a conspiracy, both broad and secret coordination. A crackpot here and there shooting up a church or a pizza joint, terrible as that is, doesn't amount to a civil war.

So, Flac has it exactly right: "You're into derangement and conspiracy world." He's also right in that what the article describes is "TDSydrome", the slavish, potentially violence-prone subservience to the Dear Leader, as expressed by many interviewed for that article.

In light of reports that local police departments are often being infiltrated by ultra-right-wing groups, and often looking the other way when aware of right-wing gun nuts stockpiling weapons and ammunition, the question remains: How many are really out there, what's their level of coordination, and is it possible we remain unaware because no one is looking in, and hardly anyone is reporting on that matter? Is it even thinkable that a group large enough for a civil war, or at least large enough to throw some region or other into complete lawlessness and turmoil, is coordinating, gathering, heavily armed, and remains undetected?

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

The ultimate goal of a totalitarian regime is for an uprising to give justification for clamping down on our freedoms

Indeed
You are 100 % on the money

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Wow... ALL THAT superfluous political analysis from one little party a a local pizza joint... Report it to the impeachment mgrs whydontya?????

You're beyond the TDSydrome.. You're into derangement and conspiracy world....

It's just an article doofus....relax. The reactions here by the usual suspects are proof of its relevancy..if not its accuracy.

Let's not be that hasty, Eye.

What this article provides is a view into a segment of the American population few (if any) of us ever get to see or listen to. We get to watch all kinds of crackpots and uncanny figures at various stages of delusion up to, and including one Mr. Villalta:

Mark Villalta said he had been stockpiling firearms, in case Mr. Trump’s re-election is not successful.

“Nothing less than a civil war would happen,” Mr. Villalta said, his right hand reaching for a holstered handgun. “I don’t believe in violence, but I’ll do what I got to do.”​

That's the derangement right there, professing not to believe in violence while also stockpiling firearms and "reaching for a holstered handgun".

There are two questions the article doesn't answer (and probably can't), and these would be: 1) How prevalent is the described derangement, and, 2) how much coordination is there going on between deranged groups. Both bear on the issue of this thread, since a "Civil War" - or somewhat broader, widespread violence - requires that there is a conspiracy, both broad and secret coordination. A crackpot here and there shooting up a church or a pizza joint, terrible as that is, doesn't amount to a civil war.

So, Flac has it exactly right: "You're into derangement and conspiracy world." He's also right in that what the article describes is "TDSydrome", the slavish, potentially violence-prone subservience to the Dear Leader, as expressed by many interviewed for that article.

In light of reports that local police departments are often being infiltrated by ultra-right-wing groups, and often looking the other way when aware of right-wing gun nuts stockpiling weapons and ammunition, the question remains: How many are really out there, what's their level of coordination, and is it possible we remain unaware because no one is looking in, and hardly anyone is reporting on that matter? Is it even thinkable that a group large enough for a civil war, or at least large enough to throw some region or other into complete lawlessness and turmoil, is coordinating, gathering, heavily armed, and remains undetected?

I have a lot of confidence that the Feds are constantly looking into these fringe groups..my confidence is based, in part, on history...they have always seen the fringe Right as a danger...and actively infiltrate such organizations/meetings.
As for coordination..in theory, the Dark Web, Freenet and robust encryption probably make planning such things..conspiring, as it were, a bit easier.

True civil war would require the active consent of a majority of both the people..and the local govt. apparat--neither seems likely...in these times of plenty.

Plenty of SHTF scenarios abound..but civil unrest seems to follow some other event..such as..irony alert..a climate change disaster! A breakaway region could happen..in the absence of strong federal authority--but the fringes would still probably be left out..as the local govt. assumed overall control.

The gathering in the article..was an an atypical thing..in our larger context. As i alluded to in an earlier post...they are the RW brothers of the tinfoil hats that make this site their home. I see little threat..in the larger sense...I don't doubt that a few of their screws are loose..and that they may hurt someone....which is tragic--but their threat is on the same level as the Antifa--who, as you know, I lump into exactly the same category.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
It's just an article doofus....relax. The reactions here by the usual suspects are proof of its relevancy..if not its accuracy.

An article from a radial left hate source. You seek to demonize your enemy, Feeble.

 

[anynameyouwish]

[
It's just an article doofus....relax. The reactions here by the usual suspects are proof of its relevancy..if not its accuracy.

An article from a radial left hate source. You seek to demonize your enemy, Feeble.

"An article from a radial left hate source. You seek to demonize your enemy, Feeble."


when conservatives (on a daily basis) call liberals SCUM, HUMAN SCUM, FILTHY SCUM, TRAITORS, PERVERTS, RATS, DEMON-cRATS .....


would you call that "DEMONIZING THEIR ENEMIES"?


if a conservative says to me; "you are a filthy traitor who should be shot"

and I reply "wow...you sure are a fascist piece of shit"


which one of us is demonizing the other?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Of course i have...have you ever heard of the Ludlow Massacre? Perhaps the Pullman strike? No? Maybe the Bonus army? No? Perhaps the shelling of NYC by US Navy during the Draft Riots? Perhaps the Whiskey Rebellion? Maybe the Detroit riots? 1967? No? Kent State? Perhaps you'll argue that the National Guard is not the 'military'? LOL!
Did you know that the Labor movement is rife with the use of the military..almost always on the side of the owners..maybe that's OK?

As a veteran...I'm here to tell you..if some dipshits rise in rebellion...in enough force to actually need the military..they will fire...I hope we don't have to find that out the hard way.

The "Draft Riots" led to "Posse Comitatus" to ensure that the military would not be deployed against civilians again.

And yet..it was...many times.

The draft riots happened in 1863.

The Posse Comitatus Act passed in 1878.

The draft riots didn't have anything to do with the Posse Comitatus Act.

Reconstruction had everything to do with the Posse Comitatus Act. The south didn't want the federal government military to be able to keep occupying the former confederate states.

I really wish people would learn about things before they post. But then conservatives are way too lazy to do that.

You're such a fucking moron.

Marvel Civil War IV: The Draft and Posse Comitatus | Law and the Multiverse

Well..fuckin' moron might apply to someone who cites a comic book site for his history...ROTFLMAO!

But..from your link:

The Act was passed in 1878 in the aftermath of Reconstruction, which followed the actual American Civil War. The thrust of the Act is that the United States armed forces—Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines (the Coast Guard is excepted by case law)—are significantly limited in their ability to conduct operations on US soil. There have been very, very few times when the federal government has used actual soldiers to carry out its will on US soil.

and:

Congress and the President have significant constitutional authority to use the National Guard and even the regular army to put down “insurrection,” and a state governor’s open, armed defiance of federal law surely counts. This power derives from the Insurrection Act, which gives the President the authority to use the regular army to put down insurrection and lawlessness. The Act is in turn derived from Congress’s constitutional power “To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.” The Insurrection Act was also invoked to quell the 1992 Los Angeles riots.

Not being all that comfortable with consulting the Marvel multiverse..LOL---I looked up the Insurrection Act--very on-point for this thread..which is to say that Domestic Terrorism and insurrection are explicitly excepted from Posse Comitatus:

Insurrection Act - The Full Wiki

(1) The President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to--
(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that--
(i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; and
(ii) such violence results in a condition described in paragraph (2); or
(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrection, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition described in paragraph (2).
(2) A condition described in this paragraph is a condition that--
(A) so hinders the execution of the laws of a State or possession, as applicable, and of the United States within that State or possession, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State or possession are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(B) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

Oh, you didn't read the link.

Here's the thing stupid, most changes take decades are are triggered by events. The use of gunboats against a major city was a shock to America. Yes, it took 20 years, but as the historians I cited and that you failed to read or grasp pointed out, the Draft Riot was one significant contributing factor.

No wonder you go by feeble.

 

[Olde Europe]

I have a lot of confidence that the Feds are constantly looking into these fringe groups..my confidence is based, in part, on history...they have always seen the fringe Right as a danger...and actively infiltrate such organizations/meetings.
As for coordination..in theory, the Dark Web, Freenet and robust encryption probably make planning such things..conspiring, as it were, a bit easier.

True civil war would require the active consent of a majority of both the people..and the local govt. apparat--neither seems likely...in these times of plenty.

Plenty of SHTF scenarios abound..but civil unrest seems to follow some other event..such as..irony alert..a climate change disaster! A breakaway region could happen..in the absence of strong federal authority--but the fringes would still probably be left out..as the local govt. assumed overall control.

The gathering in the article..was an an atypical thing..in our larger context. As i alluded to in an earlier post...they are the RW brothers of the tinfoil hats that make this site their home. I see little threat..in the larger sense...I don't doubt that a few of their screws are loose..and that they may hurt someone....which is tragic--but their threat is on the same level as the Antifa--who, as you know, I lump into exactly the same category.

To be honest, I have next to no confidence the Feds are looking into the right-wing, gun-nut, vigilante, militia phenomenon with anything like the required consistency. That was historically never the case, and, after 9/11, they dropped the ball completely, which is why the rise of right-wing hate groups after 9/11 and, particularly, after President Obama assumed office, went largely undetected until very recently. Here's an excellent read on that.

I agree a "civil war" warranting the name would require State governments' involvement, not least the State's national guard refusing the President's orders, which I also cannot see. Right-wing hordes by the thousands or tens of thousands ransacking towns - who knows? The Malheur Wildlife Refuge incident writ larg(er)? That might be possible. Also not to be underestimated, they appear to be on a recruiting drive dragging in veterans - have been for years, reportedly - and there is no telling what by way of bomb-making skills they have acquired since.

As to coordination and its detection, Matt Shea (co-organizer of the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville) and his network of armed-up nutcases went completely unnoticed until an insider blew the whistle. I have no doubt there are more, and more capable, figures out there organizing that beast - or trying to, as the case may be.

Your continued use of that right-wing bogeyman, Antifa, is noted.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Wow... ALL THAT superfluous political analysis from one little party a a local pizza joint... Report it to the impeachment mgrs whydontya?????

You're beyond the TDSydrome.. You're into derangement and conspiracy world....

It's just an article doofus....relax. The reactions here by the usual suspects are proof of its relevancy..if not its accuracy.

Let's not be that hasty, Eye.

What this article provides is a view into a segment of the American population few (if any) of us ever get to see or listen to. We get to watch all kinds of crackpots and uncanny figures at various stages of delusion up to, and including one Mr. Villalta:

Mark Villalta said he had been stockpiling firearms, in case Mr. Trump’s re-election is not successful.

“Nothing less than a civil war would happen,” Mr. Villalta said, his right hand reaching for a holstered handgun. “I don’t believe in violence, but I’ll do what I got to do.”​

That's the derangement right there, professing not to believe in violence while also stockpiling firearms and "reaching for a holstered handgun".

There are two questions the article doesn't answer (and probably can't), and these would be: 1) How prevalent is the described derangement, and, 2) how much coordination is there going on between deranged groups. Both bear on the issue of this thread, since a "Civil War" - or somewhat broader, widespread violence - requires that there is a conspiracy, both broad and secret coordination. A crackpot here and there shooting up a church or a pizza joint, terrible as that is, doesn't amount to a civil war.

So, Flac has it exactly right: "You're into derangement and conspiracy world." He's also right in that what the article describes is "TDSydrome", the slavish, potentially violence-prone subservience to the Dear Leader, as expressed by many interviewed for that article.

In light of reports that local police departments are often being infiltrated by ultra-right-wing groups, and often looking the other way when aware of right-wing gun nuts stockpiling weapons and ammunition, the question remains: How many are really out there, what's their level of coordination, and is it possible we remain unaware because no one is looking in, and hardly anyone is reporting on that matter? Is it even thinkable that a group large enough for a civil war, or at least large enough to throw some region or other into complete lawlessness and turmoil, is coordinating, gathering, heavily armed, and remains undetected?

You Communists have spent the last three years trying to overturn the 2016 election. You have obstructed the presidency and abused the power of congress with the Grand Inquisition that featured a lead prosecutor in the 4th stage of Alzheimer's to disguise the fact that it was run by the most radical hacks in the nation under Andrew Weissman. WHEN that witch hunt failed, did you vile and traitorous pigs apologize to the nation and start working for the good of the country? Did the little Goebbels of the party press?

No, you doubled down. The filthy Stalinist party embedded a CIA agent in the NSA where he conducted espionage against the president of the United States and leaked classified information to the little Goebbels until he was caught and fired from his post. Then you filthy traitor fucks took the disgraced CIA operative, Eric Ciaramella, teamed him up with the lawyer of Adam the lying Schitt, and crafted a fraudulent "whistleblower" complaint. No first hand knowledge, just rumor and innuendo.

There is a civil war underway, and you fucking pigs started it with the full intent of ending the United States Constitution in favor of a socialist, authoritarian state.

See, you scum don't accept the results of elections, when you lose you engage in treason. IF your coup against the duly elected president of the United States were successful, restoration of the president by the people using force of arms against you traitors and anyone who supports you and your insurrection against the United States is fully warranted.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
It's just an article doofus....relax. The reactions here by the usual suspects are proof of its relevancy..if not its accuracy.

An article from a radial left hate source. You seek to demonize your enemy, Feeble.

"An article from a radial left hate source. You seek to demonize your enemy, Feeble."


when conservatives (on a daily basis) call liberals SCUM, HUMAN SCUM, FILTHY SCUM, TRAITORS, PERVERTS, RATS, DEMON-cRATS .....


would you call that "DEMONIZING THEIR ENEMIES"?


if a conservative says to me; "you are a filthy traitor who should be shot"

and I reply "wow...you sure are a fascist piece of shit"


which one of us is demonizing the other?

Dude, you're engaged in treason and trying to overthrow the Constitution of the United States. You have to expect that decent folk aren't going to like you...

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The "Draft Riots" led to "Posse Comitatus" to ensure that the military would not be deployed against civilians again.

And yet..it was...many times.

The draft riots happened in 1863.

The Posse Comitatus Act passed in 1878.

The draft riots didn't have anything to do with the Posse Comitatus Act.

Reconstruction had everything to do with the Posse Comitatus Act. The south didn't want the federal government military to be able to keep occupying the former confederate states.

I really wish people would learn about things before they post. But then conservatives are way too lazy to do that.

You're such a fucking moron.

Marvel Civil War IV: The Draft and Posse Comitatus | Law and the Multiverse

Well..fuckin' moron might apply to someone who cites a comic book site for his history...ROTFLMAO!

But..from your link:

The Act was passed in 1878 in the aftermath of Reconstruction, which followed the actual American Civil War. The thrust of the Act is that the United States armed forces—Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines (the Coast Guard is excepted by case law)—are significantly limited in their ability to conduct operations on US soil. There have been very, very few times when the federal government has used actual soldiers to carry out its will on US soil.

and:

Congress and the President have significant constitutional authority to use the National Guard and even the regular army to put down “insurrection,” and a state governor’s open, armed defiance of federal law surely counts. This power derives from the Insurrection Act, which gives the President the authority to use the regular army to put down insurrection and lawlessness. The Act is in turn derived from Congress’s constitutional power “To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.” The Insurrection Act was also invoked to quell the 1992 Los Angeles riots.

Not being all that comfortable with consulting the Marvel multiverse..LOL---I looked up the Insurrection Act--very on-point for this thread..which is to say that Domestic Terrorism and insurrection are explicitly excepted from Posse Comitatus:

Insurrection Act - The Full Wiki

(1) The President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to--
(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that--
(i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; and
(ii) such violence results in a condition described in paragraph (2); or
(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrection, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition described in paragraph (2).
(2) A condition described in this paragraph is a condition that--
(A) so hinders the execution of the laws of a State or possession, as applicable, and of the United States within that State or possession, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State or possession are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(B) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

Oh, you didn't read the link.

Here's the thing stupid, most changes take decades are are triggered by events. The use of gunboats against a major city was a shock to America. Yes, it took 20 years, but as the historians I cited and that you failed to read or grasp pointed out, the Draft Riot was one significant contributing factor.

No wonder you go by feeble.

LOL! I see, you believe that I didn't read your comic book link..when I quoted from it in my post? ***chuckles***

Apparently you didn't bother reading my post..where i destroyed your Posse Comitatus shyte with real law!

 

[Uncensored2008]

And yet..it was...many times.

The draft riots happened in 1863.

The Posse Comitatus Act passed in 1878.

The draft riots didn't have anything to do with the Posse Comitatus Act.

Reconstruction had everything to do with the Posse Comitatus Act. The south didn't want the federal government military to be able to keep occupying the former confederate states.

I really wish people would learn about things before they post. But then conservatives are way too lazy to do that.

You're such a fucking moron.

Marvel Civil War IV: The Draft and Posse Comitatus | Law and the Multiverse

Well..fuckin' moron might apply to someone who cites a comic book site for his history...ROTFLMAO!

But..from your link:

The Act was passed in 1878 in the aftermath of Reconstruction, which followed the actual American Civil War. The thrust of the Act is that the United States armed forces—Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines (the Coast Guard is excepted by case law)—are significantly limited in their ability to conduct operations on US soil. There have been very, very few times when the federal government has used actual soldiers to carry out its will on US soil.

and:

Congress and the President have significant constitutional authority to use the National Guard and even the regular army to put down “insurrection,” and a state governor’s open, armed defiance of federal law surely counts. This power derives from the Insurrection Act, which gives the President the authority to use the regular army to put down insurrection and lawlessness. The Act is in turn derived from Congress’s constitutional power “To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.” The Insurrection Act was also invoked to quell the 1992 Los Angeles riots.

Not being all that comfortable with consulting the Marvel multiverse..LOL---I looked up the Insurrection Act--very on-point for this thread..which is to say that Domestic Terrorism and insurrection are explicitly excepted from Posse Comitatus:

Insurrection Act - The Full Wiki

(1) The President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to--
(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that--
(i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; and
(ii) such violence results in a condition described in paragraph (2); or
(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrection, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition described in paragraph (2).
(2) A condition described in this paragraph is a condition that--
(A) so hinders the execution of the laws of a State or possession, as applicable, and of the United States within that State or possession, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State or possession are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(B) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

Oh, you didn't read the link.

Here's the thing stupid, most changes take decades are are triggered by events. The use of gunboats against a major city was a shock to America. Yes, it took 20 years, but as the historians I cited and that you failed to read or grasp pointed out, the Draft Riot was one significant contributing factor.

No wonder you go by feeble.

LOL! I see, you believe that I didn't read your comic book link..when I quoted from it in my post? ***chuckles***

Apparently you didn't bother reading my post..where i destroyed your Posse Comitatus shyte with real law!

You mean your Wikipedia cut and paste?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Wow... ALL THAT superfluous political analysis from one little party a a local pizza joint... Report it to the impeachment mgrs whydontya?????

You're beyond the TDSydrome.. You're into derangement and conspiracy world....

It's just an article doofus....relax. The reactions here by the usual suspects are proof of its relevancy..if not its accuracy.

Let's not be that hasty, Eye.

What this article provides is a view into a segment of the American population few (if any) of us ever get to see or listen to. We get to watch all kinds of crackpots and uncanny figures at various stages of delusion up to, and including one Mr. Villalta:

Mark Villalta said he had been stockpiling firearms, in case Mr. Trump’s re-election is not successful.

“Nothing less than a civil war would happen,” Mr. Villalta said, his right hand reaching for a holstered handgun. “I don’t believe in violence, but I’ll do what I got to do.”​

That's the derangement right there, professing not to believe in violence while also stockpiling firearms and "reaching for a holstered handgun".

There are two questions the article doesn't answer (and probably can't), and these would be: 1) How prevalent is the described derangement, and, 2) how much coordination is there going on between deranged groups. Both bear on the issue of this thread, since a "Civil War" - or somewhat broader, widespread violence - requires that there is a conspiracy, both broad and secret coordination. A crackpot here and there shooting up a church or a pizza joint, terrible as that is, doesn't amount to a civil war.

So, Flac has it exactly right: "You're into derangement and conspiracy world." He's also right in that what the article describes is "TDSydrome", the slavish, potentially violence-prone subservience to the Dear Leader, as expressed by many interviewed for that article.

In light of reports that local police departments are often being infiltrated by ultra-right-wing groups, and often looking the other way when aware of right-wing gun nuts stockpiling weapons and ammunition, the question remains: How many are really out there, what's their level of coordination, and is it possible we remain unaware because no one is looking in, and hardly anyone is reporting on that matter? Is it even thinkable that a group large enough for a civil war, or at least large enough to throw some region or other into complete lawlessness and turmoil, is coordinating, gathering, heavily armed, and remains undetected?

You Communists have spent the last three years trying to overturn the 2016 election. You have obstructed the presidency and abused the power of congress with the Grand Inquisition that featured a lead prosecutor in the 4th stage of Alzheimer's to disguise the fact that it was run but the most radical hacks in the nation under Andrew Weissman. WHEN that witch hunt failed, did you vile and traitorous pigs apologize to the nation and start working for the good of the country? Did the little Goebbels of the party press?

No, you doubled down. The filthy Stalinist party embedded a CIA agent in the NSA where he conducted espionage against the president of the United States and leaked classified information to the little Goebbels until he was caught and fired from his post. Then you filthy traitor fucks took the disgraced CIA operative, Eric Ciaramella, teamed him up with the lawyer of Adam the lying Schitt, and crafted a fraudulent "whistleblower" complaint. No first hand knowledge, just rumor and innuendo.

There is a civil war underway, and you fucking pigs started it with the full intent of ending the United States Constitution in favor of a socialist, authoritarian state.

See, you scum don't accept the results of elections, when you lose you engage in treason. IF your coup against the duly elected president of the United States were successful, restoration of the president by the people using force of arms against you traitors and anyone who supports you and your insurrection against the United States is fully warranted.

Well..that'll make a nice addition to your file!

The only treason I see are those who are advocating taking up arms against the United States.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

The draft riots happened in 1863.

The Posse Comitatus Act passed in 1878.

The draft riots didn't have anything to do with the Posse Comitatus Act.

Reconstruction had everything to do with the Posse Comitatus Act. The south didn't want the federal government military to be able to keep occupying the former confederate states.

I really wish people would learn about things before they post. But then conservatives are way too lazy to do that.

You're such a fucking moron.

Marvel Civil War IV: The Draft and Posse Comitatus | Law and the Multiverse

Well..fuckin' moron might apply to someone who cites a comic book site for his history...ROTFLMAO!

But..from your link:

The Act was passed in 1878 in the aftermath of Reconstruction, which followed the actual American Civil War. The thrust of the Act is that the United States armed forces—Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines (the Coast Guard is excepted by case law)—are significantly limited in their ability to conduct operations on US soil. There have been very, very few times when the federal government has used actual soldiers to carry out its will on US soil.

and:

Congress and the President have significant constitutional authority to use the National Guard and even the regular army to put down “insurrection,” and a state governor’s open, armed defiance of federal law surely counts. This power derives from the Insurrection Act, which gives the President the authority to use the regular army to put down insurrection and lawlessness. The Act is in turn derived from Congress’s constitutional power “To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.” The Insurrection Act was also invoked to quell the 1992 Los Angeles riots.

Not being all that comfortable with consulting the Marvel multiverse..LOL---I looked up the Insurrection Act--very on-point for this thread..which is to say that Domestic Terrorism and insurrection are explicitly excepted from Posse Comitatus:

Insurrection Act - The Full Wiki

(1) The President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to--
(A) restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that--
(i) domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order; and
(ii) such violence results in a condition described in paragraph (2); or
(B) suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such insurrection, violation, combination, or conspiracy results in a condition described in paragraph (2).
(2) A condition described in this paragraph is a condition that--
(A) so hinders the execution of the laws of a State or possession, as applicable, and of the United States within that State or possession, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State or possession are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(B) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

Oh, you didn't read the link.

Here's the thing stupid, most changes take decades are are triggered by events. The use of gunboats against a major city was a shock to America. Yes, it took 20 years, but as the historians I cited and that you failed to read or grasp pointed out, the Draft Riot was one significant contributing factor.

No wonder you go by feeble.

LOL! I see, you believe that I didn't read your comic book link..when I quoted from it in my post? ***chuckles***

Apparently you didn't bother reading my post..where i destroyed your Posse Comitatus shyte with real law!

You mean your Wikipedia cut and paste?

Yup...I mean the cogent link that destroyed your lil fantasy comic book world. Insurrection Act...read it and learn...or ignore it...and burn.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Well..that'll make a nice addition to your file!

The only treason I see are those who are advocating taking up arms against the United States.

Of course, you see nothing wrong with a 3 year witch hunt to overthrow the legally elected president of the United States because you wanted Hillary...

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

I have a lot of confidence that the Feds are constantly looking into these fringe groups..my confidence is based, in part, on history...they have always seen the fringe Right as a danger...and actively infiltrate such organizations/meetings.
As for coordination..in theory, the Dark Web, Freenet and robust encryption probably make planning such things..conspiring, as it were, a bit easier.

True civil war would require the active consent of a majority of both the people..and the local govt. apparat--neither seems likely...in these times of plenty.

Plenty of SHTF scenarios abound..but civil unrest seems to follow some other event..such as..irony alert..a climate change disaster! A breakaway region could happen..in the absence of strong federal authority--but the fringes would still probably be left out..as the local govt. assumed overall control.

The gathering in the article..was an an atypical thing..in our larger context. As i alluded to in an earlier post...they are the RW brothers of the tinfoil hats that make this site their home. I see little threat..in the larger sense...I don't doubt that a few of their screws are loose..and that they may hurt someone....which is tragic--but their threat is on the same level as the Antifa--who, as you know, I lump into exactly the same category.

To be honest, I have next to no confidence the Feds are looking into the right-wing, gun-nut, vigilante, militia phenomenon with anything like the required consistency. That was historically never the case, and, after 9/11, they dropped the ball completely, which is why the rise of right-wing hate groups after 9/11 and, particularly, after President Obama assumed office, went largely undetected until very recently. Here's an excellent read on that.

I agree a "civil war" warranting the name would require State governments' involvement, not least the State's national guard refusing the President's orders, which I also cannot see. Right-wing hordes by the thousands or tens of thousands ransacking towns - who knows? The Malheur Wildlife Refuge incident writ larg(er)? That might be possible. Also not to be underestimated, they appear to be on a recruiting drive dragging in veterans - have been for years, reportedly - and there is no telling what by way of bomb-making skills they have acquired since.

As to coordination and its detection, Matt Shea (co-organizer of the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville) and his network of armed-up nutcases went completely unnoticed until an insider blew the whistle. I have no doubt there are more, and more capable, figures out there organizing that beast - or trying to, as the case may be.

Your continued use of that right-wing bogeyman, Antifa, is noted.

Nope..ya lost me. Reads like bad science fiction.
The Antifa--right wing boogiemen..are quite real..and are rotten to the core with dyed in the wool anarchists..who are not the friends of our nation. Yes, I rank them right with the right wing nutters who you so fear. Which is to say...pretty low on my threat assessment scale.