Half the country thinks a civil war is likely

[task0778]

I hear one was charged with sedition.

So one guy being charged with sedition rather than insurrection means everybody was guilty of an insurrection?

And we'll see if an indictment is made and a conviction happens. My understanding is that sedition is basically talking while insurrection is basically doing some violent with the intent of overthrowing the gov't. I'm guessing the charge will be reduced in a plea deal, but we'll see. If the gov't has a case, they'll go with it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So, VP Pence had more authority over the National Guard than Trump did?

Yes he did, because a VP is in charge when the President cannot be. That's besides the fact Trump put him in charge if anything did happen.

When there is a threat of any kind to a US President, the SS immediately rushes him to an undisclosed location for his safety regardless how little chance there is for harm to come to a President. During 911, Bush was quickly ushered to an undisclosed location even though the threat was not guns or bombs. They were airplanes, and I seriously doubt some hijacker would use a plane to find and kill President Bush.

Bottom line is Trump had zero to do with how long it took the Guard to get there. From my understanding, they are even restricted from communications until it's assured the threat is under control and nobody can use technology to locate a President.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Well, you tell me, you completely retarded limey fuck

America's standing army is less than 1 million.

It's 100:1.

A war between an army of even the most frail out numbering an army of commandos 100:1 will decidedly win and it will be over in a matter of days if not minutes.

in fact, America's armed population out numbers almost all of the militaries of every country in the whole fucking world combined.

Daily, you prove to be one of the dumbest motherfuckers ever to walk the face of the earth. I thought your country was supposed to be full of smart people.

I guess that's why we kicked your fucking ass twice. Care to go for around three?

America were losing their own independence, it was the French that saved the Yanks. Vietnam and Osama Bin Laden spanked you, lol.

Shall I call you a retarded Seppo fuck? The Cockney's would.

But bless your little heart, many Americans are ignorant of world affairs but convinced they're the best at everything.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Fascist Biden threatened to jail his political opponents

 

[sealybobo]

Unfortunately they couldn't get the military there quick enough, and Piglosi told the Capital police chief to refuse Trump's offer to have the national guard there at the beginning of the day before anybody even showed up. She was hoping something like this would happen for political gain.

As for gunning everybody down, I know how you feel. That's what I wish the police would have done to the Floyd rioters before they caused billions of dollars in damages and the harm they brought to police and innocent people.

No evidence Pelosi told the Capitol police to refuse Trump's offer to.....

No proof Trump authorized 20,000 National Guard for Jan. 6

Twenty million Americans tuned in June 9 as the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S

www.politifact.com

 

[sealybobo]

It had nothing to do with any Republican Supreme court.

The commies in the Florida state court changed the law on the bench. The Florida law states all ballots must be turned in and certified in seven days. If you want a recount, fine, have a recount, but have the ballots turned in and certified in seven days. That's their law. The judges in the Florida court said this is our buddy Al Gore, and Al Gore doesn't have to listen to any laws. He can recount for as long as he wants!

When the case made it to the Supreme Court, the justices sent it back to the Florida courts asking them WTF did they think they were doing? That's when they had to give up.


Past Conspiracy Theories

Remember the swirl of stories around Diebold Election Systems and its CEO, Walden O’Dell, in 2004? O’Dell was an Ohio resident who held a fundraiser at his home for President Bush and wrote a fundraising letter promising to help “Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.” Some took him too literally, claiming that Bush “stole” Ohio’s electoral votes and the 2004 election.


But even the liberal New York Times editorial board waved off that conspiracy theory as nonsense. There were some glitches, as expected, with the machines on Election Day, but, as the Times wrote, there was “no evidence of vote theft or errors on a large scale.”​

Does Tagg Romney 'Own' Ohio Voting Machines? - FactCheck.org

Q: Does Mitt Romney’s son Tagg own Ohio’s electronic voting machines? A: There’s no evidence of that. A spokesman for Tagg Romney’s private equity firm states that it has no stake in Hart InterCivic, a supplier of voting machines in two of Ohio’s 88 counties. FULL QUESTION Is it true that Tagg...

www.factcheck.org

I already caught you lying in your previous post. Am I supposed to dig into this ball of lies too and debunk it? I think not. Have a nice day Ray.

Look into Diebold voting Machines and all the court cases and shady shit behind them. Of course they stole Florida, Ohio and many more states, probably under a different name.

 

[sealybobo]

It had nothing to do with any Republican Supreme court.

The commies in the Florida state court changed the law on the bench. The Florida law states all ballots must be turned in and certified in seven days. If you want a recount, fine, have a recount, but have the ballots turned in and certified in seven days. That's their law. The judges in the Florida court said this is our buddy Al Gore, and Al Gore doesn't have to listen to any laws. He can recount for as long as he wants!

When the case made it to the Supreme Court, the justices sent it back to the Florida courts asking them WTF did they think they were doing? That's when they had to give up.


Past Conspiracy Theories

Remember the swirl of stories around Diebold Election Systems and its CEO, Walden O’Dell, in 2004? O’Dell was an Ohio resident who held a fundraiser at his home for President Bush and wrote a fundraising letter promising to help “Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.” Some took him too literally, claiming that Bush “stole” Ohio’s electoral votes and the 2004 election.


But even the liberal New York Times editorial board waved off that conspiracy theory as nonsense. There were some glitches, as expected, with the machines on Election Day, but, as the Times wrote, there was “no evidence of vote theft or errors on a large scale.”​

Does Tagg Romney 'Own' Ohio Voting Machines? - FactCheck.org

Q: Does Mitt Romney’s son Tagg own Ohio’s electronic voting machines? A: There’s no evidence of that. A spokesman for Tagg Romney’s private equity firm states that it has no stake in Hart InterCivic, a supplier of voting machines in two of Ohio’s 88 counties. FULL QUESTION Is it true that Tagg...

www.factcheck.org

The New York Times can't be that liberal if they reported that Diebold Voting Machines is a good honest company.

Premier Election Solutions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In August 2003, Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold, announced that he had been a top fundraiser for PresidentGeorge W. Bush

I'm not even going to continue with all the court cases and shady findings about how hackable their machines were. Just imagine if Dominion was a top fundraiser for Biden.

 

[scruffy]

Fascist Biden threatened to jail his political opponents

Threatened?

He's doing it!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The New York Times can't be that liberal if they reported that Diebold Voting Machines is a good honest company.

Premier Election Solutions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In August 2003, Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold, announced that he had been a top fundraiser for PresidentGeorge W. Bush

I'm not even going to continue with all the court cases and shady findings about how hackable their machines were. Just imagine if Dominion was a top fundraiser for Biden.

I used one of your very own sources---FactCheck. Yes, he was a supporter of Bush, so what? If everybody looked into the allegation and found nothing then apparently there's nothing there. Furthermore let's remember why we had to move to new machines in the first place; Democrat voters were too Fn stupid to put a hole in a card the right way, just like they're too Fn stupid to get a Voter-ID today, at least according to the Democrats.

 

[sealybobo]

I used one of your very own sources---FactCheck. Yes, he was a supporter of Bush, so what? If everybody looked into the allegation and found nothing then apparently there's nothing there. Furthermore let's remember why we had to move to new machines in the first place; Democrat voters were too Fn stupid to put a hole in a card the right way, just like they're too Fn stupid to get a Voter-ID today, at least according to the Democrats.

So what? At minimum it's a huge fucking conflict of interest. at worst implying a risk to the fair counting of ballots.

In August 2003, Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold, announced that he had been a top fundraiser for PresidentGeorge W. Bush and had sent a get-out-the-funds letter to Ohio Republicans. In the letters he said he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.

Following the publication of this paper, the State of Maryland hired Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) to perform another analysis of the Diebold voting machines. SAIC concluded "[t]he system, as implemented in policy, procedure, and technology, is at high risk of compromise."

You say they found nothing wrong with Diebold Voting Machine?

In January 2004, RABA Technologies, a security company in Columbia, Maryland, did a security analysis of the Diebold AccuVote, confirming many of the problems found by Rubin and finding some new vulnerabilities.[19][20]

In June 2005, the Tallahassee Democrat reported that when given access to Diebold optical scan vote-counting computers, Black Box Voting, a nonprofit election watchdog group founded by Bev Harris, hired Finnish computer expert Harri Hursti and conducted a project in which vote totals were altered, by replacing the memory card that stores voting results with one that had been tampered with. Although the machines are supposed to record changes to data stored in the system, they showed no record of tampering after the memory cards were swapped. In response, a spokesperson for the Florida Department of State said, "Information on a blog site is not viable or credible."[21]

In early 2006, a study for the state of California corroborated and expanded on the problem;[22] on page 2 the California report states that:

"Memory card attacks are a real threat: We determined that anyone who has access to a memory card of the AV-OS, and can tamper it (i.e. modify its contents), and can have the modified cards used in a voting machine during election, can indeed modify the election results from that machine in a number of ways. The fact that the results are incorrect cannot be detected except by a recount of the original paper ballots" and "Harri Hursti's attack does work: Mr. Hursti's attack on the AV-OS is definitely real. He was indeed able to change the election results by doing nothing more than modifying the contents of a memory card. He needed no passwords, no cryptographic keys, and no access to any other part of the voting system, including the GEMS election management server."


AccuVote-TSx DRE voting machinewith VVPAT attachment, at right
A new vulnerability, this time with the TSx DRE machines, was reported in May 2006. According to Professor Rubin, the machines are "much, much easier to attack than anything we've previously said... On a scale of one to 10, if the problems we found before were a six, this is a 10. It's a totally different ballgame."[23][24] According to Rubin, the system is intentionally designed so that anyone with access can update the machine software, without a pass code or other security protocol. Diebold officials said that although any problem can be avoided by keeping a close watch on the machines, they are developing a fix.[25]

Michael I. Shamos, a professor of computer science at Carnegie Mellon Universitywho is a proponent of electronic voting and the examiner of electronic voting systems for Pennsylvania, stated "It's the most severe security flaw ever discovered in a voting system." Douglas W. Jones, a professor of computer science at the University of Iowa, stated "This is the barn door being wide open, while people were arguing over the lock on the front door." Diebold spokesman David Bear played down the seriousness of the situation, asserting that "For there to be a problem here, you're basically assuming a premise where you have some evil and nefarious election officials who would sneak in and introduce a piece of software. I don't believe these evil elections people exist."[26]

On October 30, 2006, researchers from the University of Connecticut demonstrated new vulnerabilities in Diebold AccuVote-OS optical scan voting terminal. The system can be compromised even if its removable memory card is sealed in place.[27]

On September 13, 2006, Director of the Center for Information and Technology Policy[28] at Princeton University, Professor Edward Felten, and graduate students Ariel Feldman and Alex Halderman discovered severe security flaws in a Diebold AccuVote-TS voting machine.[29][30] Their findings claimed, "Malicious software running on a single voting machine can steal votes with little if any risk of detection. The malicious software can modify all of the records, audit logs, and counters kept by the voting machine, so that even careful forensic examination of these records will find nothing amiss."[31][32][33][34][35]

On November 2, 2006, HBO premiered a documentary entitled "Hacking Democracy", concerning the vulnerability of electronic voting machines (primarily Diebold) to hacking and inaccurate vote totals. The company argued that the film was factually inaccurate and urged HBO to air a disclaimer explaining that it had not verified any of the claims.[36][37][38] However, corroboration and validation for the exploits shown in Hacking Democracy was published in a report for the state of California (see above).

In January 2007, a photo of the key used to open Diebold voting machines was posted in the company's website. It was found possible to duplicate the key based on the photo. The key unlocks a compartment which contains a removable memory card, leaving the machine vulnerable to tampering.[39]

A report commissioned by Ohio's top elections official on December 15, 2007, found that all five voting systems used in Ohio (made by Elections Systems and Software; Premier Election Solutions (formerly Diebold Election Systems); and Hart InterCivic) have critical flaws that could undermine the integrity of the 2008 general election.[40]

On July 17, 2008, Stephen Spoonamore made the claim that he had "fresh evidence regarding election fraud on Diebold electronic voting machines during the 2002 Georgia gubernatorial and senatorial elections." Spoonamore is "the founder and until recently the CEO of Cybrinth LLC, an information technology policy and security firm that serves Fortune 100 companies." He claims that Diebold Election Systems Inc. COO Bob Urosevich personally installed a computer patch on voting machines in two counties in Georgia, and that the patch did not fix the problem it was supposed to fix.[41] Reports have indicated that then Georgia Secretary of State Cathy Cox did not know the patch was installed until after the election.

In 2004, after an initial investigation into the company's practices, Secretary of State of California Kevin Shelley issued a ban on one model of Diebold voting machines in that state. California Attorney General Bill Lockyer, joined the state of California into a false claims suit filed in November 2003 by Bev Harris and Alameda County citizen Jim March.[43][44]

The suit charged that Diebold had given false information about the security and reliability of Diebold Election Systems machines that were sold to the state. To settle the case, Diebold agreed to pay $2.6 million and to implement certain reforms.[45] On August 3, 2007, California Secretary of State Debra Bowen decertified Diebold and three other electronic voting systems after a "top-to-bottom review of the voting machines certified for use in California in March 2007."[46]

In April 2007, the Maryland General Assembly voted to replace paperless touchscreen voting machines with paper ballots counted by optical scanners, effective in time for the 2010 general (November) elections. The law, signed by the Governor in May 2007, was made contingent on the provision of funding by no later than April 2008. The Governor included such funding in his proposed budget in January 2008,[47] but the funding was defeated by the state House in July 2008.[48]

In March 2009, California Secretary of State Debra Bowen decertified Diebold's GEMS version 1.18.19 after the Humboldt County Election Transparency Project discovered that GEMS had silently dropped 197 ballots from its tabulation of a single precinct in Eureka, California.[49] The discovery was made after project members conducted an independent count using the ballot counting program Ballot Browser.

Leaked memos[edit]​

In September 2003, a large number of internal Diebold memos, dating back to 1999, were posted to the BlackBoxVoting.org web site, resulting in the site being shut down due to a Diebold cease and desist order. Later, other website organizations Why War? and the Swarthmore Coalition for the Digital Commons, a group of student activists at Swarthmore College posted the memos. U.S. Representative Dennis Kucinich, a Democrat from Ohio, placed portions of the files on his websites.[50]

Diebold attempted to stop the publication of these internal memos by sending cease-and-desist letters to each site hosting these documents, demanding that they be removed. Diebold claimed the memos as their copyrighted material, and asserted that anyone who published the memos online was in violation of the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Actprovisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act found in §512 of the United States Copyright Act.

When it turned out that some of the challenged groups would not back down, Diebold retracted their threat. Those who had been threatened by Diebold then sued for court costs and damages, in OPG v. Diebold. This suit eventually led to a victory for the plaintiffs against Diebold, when in October 2004 Judge Jeremy Fogel ruled that Diebold abused its copyrights in its efforts to suppress the embarrassing memos.

Stephen Heller[edit]​

In January and February 2004, a whistleblower named Stephen Heller brought to light memos from Jones Day, Diebold's attorneys, informing Diebold that they were in breach of California law by continuing to use illegal and uncertified software in California voting machines. California Attorney General Bill Lockyer filed civil and criminal suits against the company, which were dropped when Diebold settled out of court for $2.6 million. In February 2006, Heller was charged with three felonies for this action.[51][52] On November 20, 2006, Heller made a plea agreement to pay $10,000 to Jones Day, write an apology, and receive three years probation.[53]

Diebold and Kenneth Blackwell's conflict of interest[edit]​

Ohio State Senator Jeff Jacobson, Republican, asked Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, also a Republican, in July 2003 to disqualify Diebold's bid to supply voting machines for the state, after security problems were discovered in its software, but was refused.[54] Blackwell had ordered Diebold touch screen voting machines, reversing an earlier decision by the state to purchase only optical scan voting machines which, unlike the touch screen devices, would leave a "paper trail" for recount purposes. Blackwell was found, in April 2006, to own 83 shares of Diebold stock, down from 178 shares purchased in January 2005, which he attributed to an unidentified financial manager at Credit Suisse First Boston who had violated his instructions to avoid potential conflict of interest, without his knowledge.[55] When Cuyahoga county's primary was held on May 2, 2006, officials ordered the hand-counting of more than 18,000 paper ballots after Diebold's new optical scan machines produced inconsistent tabulations, leaving several local races in limbo for days and eventually resulting in a reversal of the outcome of one race for state representative. Blackwell ordered an investigation by the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections; Ohio Democrats demanded that Blackwell, who was also the Republican gubernatorial candidate in 2006, recuse himself from the investigation due to conflicts of interest, but Blackwell did not do so.[56]

The Republican head of the Franklin County, Ohio Board of Elections, Matt Damschroder, said a Diebold contractor came to him and bragged of a $50,000 check he had written to Blackwell's "political interests."[57]

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I already caught you lying in your previous post. Am I supposed to dig into this ball of lies too and debunk it? I think not. Have a nice day Ray.

Look into Diebold voting Machines and all the court cases and shady shit behind them. Of course they stole Florida, Ohio and many more states, probably under a different name.

First off you never "debunked" anything. I presented you with credible sources for my claim. Secondly, if you're such a busy man you don't have time to dig into the Bush/Gore race, say no more. I'll do the work for you from an extremely unbiased source, Britannica.

Concurring opinion​

In a concurring opinion joined by associate justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, Chief Justice William Rehnquist agreed with the majority regarding the intentions of the Florida state legislature (“Surely when the Florida Legislature empowered the courts of the State to grant ‘appropriate’ relief, it must have meant relief that would have become final by the cutoff date of 3 U.S.C. §5.”) but also suggested that the safe-harbor provision itself imposed a strict deadline beyond which no recounts could proceed (“In Presidential elections, the contest period necessarily terminates on the date set by 3 U.S.C. §5 for concluding the State’s ‘final determination’ of election controversies.”). Rehnquist argued in addition that the recount order was invalid because it effectively created new election law in violation of Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, which reserves that power to the state legislatures.

Bush v. Gore - Supreme Court, Election, Recount

Bush v. Gore - Supreme Court, Election, Recount: The majority opinion of the Supreme Court ruled that no new recount could take place, which allowed Florida's 25 electoral votes to be awarded to George W. Bush.

www.britannica.com

So there goes your "Republican" Supreme Court claim as well.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So what? At minimum it's a huge fucking conflict of interest. at worst implying a risk to the fair counting of ballots.

In August 2003, Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold, announced that he had been a top fundraiser for PresidentGeorge W. Bush and had sent a get-out-the-funds letter to Ohio Republicans. In the letters he said he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.

Following the publication of this paper, the State of Maryland hired Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) to perform another analysis of the Diebold voting machines. SAIC concluded "[t]he system, as implemented in policy, procedure, and technology, is at high risk of compromise."

You say they found nothing wrong with Diebold Voting Machine?

In January 2004, RABA Technologies, a security company in Columbia, Maryland, did a security analysis of the Diebold AccuVote, confirming many of the problems found by Rubin and finding some new vulnerabilities.[19][20]

In June 2005, the Tallahassee Democrat reported that when given access to Diebold optical scan vote-counting computers, Black Box Voting, a nonprofit election watchdog group founded by Bev Harris, hired Finnish computer expert Harri Hursti and conducted a project in which vote totals were altered, by replacing the memory card that stores voting results with one that had been tampered with. Although the machines are supposed to record changes to data stored in the system, they showed no record of tampering after the memory cards were swapped. In response, a spokesperson for the Florida Department of State said, "Information on a blog site is not viable or credible."[21]

In early 2006, a study for the state of California corroborated and expanded on the problem;[22] on page 2 the California report states that:

"Memory card attacks are a real threat: We determined that anyone who has access to a memory card of the AV-OS, and can tamper it (i.e. modify its contents), and can have the modified cards used in a voting machine during election, can indeed modify the election results from that machine in a number of ways. The fact that the results are incorrect cannot be detected except by a recount of the original paper ballots" and "Harri Hursti's attack does work: Mr. Hursti's attack on the AV-OS is definitely real. He was indeed able to change the election results by doing nothing more than modifying the contents of a memory card. He needed no passwords, no cryptographic keys, and no access to any other part of the voting system, including the GEMS election management server."


AccuVote-TSx DRE voting machinewith VVPAT attachment, at right
A new vulnerability, this time with the TSx DRE machines, was reported in May 2006. According to Professor Rubin, the machines are "much, much easier to attack than anything we've previously said... On a scale of one to 10, if the problems we found before were a six, this is a 10. It's a totally different ballgame."[23][24] According to Rubin, the system is intentionally designed so that anyone with access can update the machine software, without a pass code or other security protocol. Diebold officials said that although any problem can be avoided by keeping a close watch on the machines, they are developing a fix.[25]

Michael I. Shamos, a professor of computer science at Carnegie Mellon Universitywho is a proponent of electronic voting and the examiner of electronic voting systems for Pennsylvania, stated "It's the most severe security flaw ever discovered in a voting system." Douglas W. Jones, a professor of computer science at the University of Iowa, stated "This is the barn door being wide open, while people were arguing over the lock on the front door." Diebold spokesman David Bear played down the seriousness of the situation, asserting that "For there to be a problem here, you're basically assuming a premise where you have some evil and nefarious election officials who would sneak in and introduce a piece of software. I don't believe these evil elections people exist."[26]

On October 30, 2006, researchers from the University of Connecticut demonstrated new vulnerabilities in Diebold AccuVote-OS optical scan voting terminal. The system can be compromised even if its removable memory card is sealed in place.[27]

On September 13, 2006, Director of the Center for Information and Technology Policy[28] at Princeton University, Professor Edward Felten, and graduate students Ariel Feldman and Alex Halderman discovered severe security flaws in a Diebold AccuVote-TS voting machine.[29][30] Their findings claimed, "Malicious software running on a single voting machine can steal votes with little if any risk of detection. The malicious software can modify all of the records, audit logs, and counters kept by the voting machine, so that even careful forensic examination of these records will find nothing amiss."[31][32][33][34][35]

On November 2, 2006, HBO premiered a documentary entitled "Hacking Democracy", concerning the vulnerability of electronic voting machines (primarily Diebold) to hacking and inaccurate vote totals. The company argued that the film was factually inaccurate and urged HBO to air a disclaimer explaining that it had not verified any of the claims.[36][37][38] However, corroboration and validation for the exploits shown in Hacking Democracy was published in a report for the state of California (see above).

In January 2007, a photo of the key used to open Diebold voting machines was posted in the company's website. It was found possible to duplicate the key based on the photo. The key unlocks a compartment which contains a removable memory card, leaving the machine vulnerable to tampering.[39]

A report commissioned by Ohio's top elections official on December 15, 2007, found that all five voting systems used in Ohio (made by Elections Systems and Software; Premier Election Solutions (formerly Diebold Election Systems); and Hart InterCivic) have critical flaws that could undermine the integrity of the 2008 general election.[40]

On July 17, 2008, Stephen Spoonamore made the claim that he had "fresh evidence regarding election fraud on Diebold electronic voting machines during the 2002 Georgia gubernatorial and senatorial elections." Spoonamore is "the founder and until recently the CEO of Cybrinth LLC, an information technology policy and security firm that serves Fortune 100 companies." He claims that Diebold Election Systems Inc. COO Bob Urosevich personally installed a computer patch on voting machines in two counties in Georgia, and that the patch did not fix the problem it was supposed to fix.[41] Reports have indicated that then Georgia Secretary of State Cathy Cox did not know the patch was installed until after the election.

In 2004, after an initial investigation into the company's practices, Secretary of State of California Kevin Shelley issued a ban on one model of Diebold voting machines in that state. California Attorney General Bill Lockyer, joined the state of California into a false claims suit filed in November 2003 by Bev Harris and Alameda County citizen Jim March.[43][44]

The suit charged that Diebold had given false information about the security and reliability of Diebold Election Systems machines that were sold to the state. To settle the case, Diebold agreed to pay $2.6 million and to implement certain reforms.[45] On August 3, 2007, California Secretary of State Debra Bowen decertified Diebold and three other electronic voting systems after a "top-to-bottom review of the voting machines certified for use in California in March 2007."[46]

In April 2007, the Maryland General Assembly voted to replace paperless touchscreen voting machines with paper ballots counted by optical scanners, effective in time for the 2010 general (November) elections. The law, signed by the Governor in May 2007, was made contingent on the provision of funding by no later than April 2008. The Governor included such funding in his proposed budget in January 2008,[47] but the funding was defeated by the state House in July 2008.[48]

In March 2009, California Secretary of State Debra Bowen decertified Diebold's GEMS version 1.18.19 after the Humboldt County Election Transparency Project discovered that GEMS had silently dropped 197 ballots from its tabulation of a single precinct in Eureka, California.[49] The discovery was made after project members conducted an independent count using the ballot counting program Ballot Browser.

Leaked memos[edit]​

In September 2003, a large number of internal Diebold memos, dating back to 1999, were posted to the BlackBoxVoting.org web site, resulting in the site being shut down due to a Diebold cease and desist order. Later, other website organizations Why War? and the Swarthmore Coalition for the Digital Commons, a group of student activists at Swarthmore College posted the memos. U.S. Representative Dennis Kucinich, a Democrat from Ohio, placed portions of the files on his websites.[50]

Diebold attempted to stop the publication of these internal memos by sending cease-and-desist letters to each site hosting these documents, demanding that they be removed. Diebold claimed the memos as their copyrighted material, and asserted that anyone who published the memos online was in violation of the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Actprovisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act found in §512 of the United States Copyright Act.

When it turned out that some of the challenged groups would not back down, Diebold retracted their threat. Those who had been threatened by Diebold then sued for court costs and damages, in OPG v. Diebold. This suit eventually led to a victory for the plaintiffs against Diebold, when in October 2004 Judge Jeremy Fogel ruled that Diebold abused its copyrights in its efforts to suppress the embarrassing memos.

Stephen Heller[edit]​

In January and February 2004, a whistleblower named Stephen Heller brought to light memos from Jones Day, Diebold's attorneys, informing Diebold that they were in breach of California law by continuing to use illegal and uncertified software in California voting machines. California Attorney General Bill Lockyer filed civil and criminal suits against the company, which were dropped when Diebold settled out of court for $2.6 million. In February 2006, Heller was charged with three felonies for this action.[51][52] On November 20, 2006, Heller made a plea agreement to pay $10,000 to Jones Day, write an apology, and receive three years probation.[53]

Diebold and Kenneth Blackwell's conflict of interest[edit]​

Ohio State Senator Jeff Jacobson, Republican, asked Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, also a Republican, in July 2003 to disqualify Diebold's bid to supply voting machines for the state, after security problems were discovered in its software, but was refused.[54] Blackwell had ordered Diebold touch screen voting machines, reversing an earlier decision by the state to purchase only optical scan voting machines which, unlike the touch screen devices, would leave a "paper trail" for recount purposes. Blackwell was found, in April 2006, to own 83 shares of Diebold stock, down from 178 shares purchased in January 2005, which he attributed to an unidentified financial manager at Credit Suisse First Boston who had violated his instructions to avoid potential conflict of interest, without his knowledge.[55] When Cuyahoga county's primary was held on May 2, 2006, officials ordered the hand-counting of more than 18,000 paper ballots after Diebold's new optical scan machines produced inconsistent tabulations, leaving several local races in limbo for days and eventually resulting in a reversal of the outcome of one race for state representative. Blackwell ordered an investigation by the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections; Ohio Democrats demanded that Blackwell, who was also the Republican gubernatorial candidate in 2006, recuse himself from the investigation due to conflicts of interest, but Blackwell did not do so.[56]

The Republican head of the Franklin County, Ohio Board of Elections, Matt Damschroder, said a Diebold contractor came to him and bragged of a $50,000 check he had written to Blackwell's "political interests."[57]

Could have, should have, would have. What your posts show is that electronic voting machines are not perfect, especially nearly 20 years ago. I can show you the same kind of claims with the Dominion machines. In any case, FactCheck found that yes, there were problems (as expected) as they put it, but no evidence of any kind of tampering with the machines or malfunctions on any measurable scale. FactChck updates their posts when new developments unfold.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No evidence Pelosi told the Capitol police to refuse Trump's offer to.....

No proof Trump authorized 20,000 National Guard for Jan. 6

Twenty million Americans tuned in June 9 as the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S

www.politifact.com

Sure there is evidence. FactCheck often refers to "no official order" and that's not what I said. I said they were offered troops by Trump and they refused. I never said Trump gave an official order to put the Guard there.

Trump Pentagon first offered National Guard to Capitol four days before Jan. 6 riots, memo shows

Official Capitol Police timeline validates Trump administration's account, shows Democrats' fateful rejections of offers. "Seems absolutely illogical," one official wrote about security posture hours before riot began.

adnamerica.com

 

[sealybobo]

First off you never "debunked" anything. I presented you with credible sources for my claim. Secondly, if you're such a busy man you don't have time to dig into the Bush/Gore race, say no more. I'll do the work for you from an extremely unbiased source, Britannica.

Concurring opinion​

In a concurring opinion joined by associate justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, Chief Justice William Rehnquist agreed with the majority regarding the intentions of the Florida state legislature (“Surely when the Florida Legislature empowered the courts of the State to grant ‘appropriate’ relief, it must have meant relief that would have become final by the cutoff date of 3 U.S.C. §5.”) but also suggested that the safe-harbor provision itself imposed a strict deadline beyond which no recounts could proceed (“In Presidential elections, the contest period necessarily terminates on the date set by 3 U.S.C. §5 for concluding the State’s ‘final determination’ of election controversies.”). Rehnquist argued in addition that the recount order was invalid because it effectively created new election law in violation of Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution, which reserves that power to the state legislatures.

Bush v. Gore - Supreme Court, Election, Recount

Bush v. Gore - Supreme Court, Election, Recount: The majority opinion of the Supreme Court ruled that no new recount could take place, which allowed Florida's 25 electoral votes to be awarded to George W. Bush.

www.britannica.com

So there goes your "Republican" Supreme Court claim as well.

Stop being stupid

• 2000 United States presidential election - After a close election in which the winner was unclear, the Republican candidate George W. Bush won Florida by such a slim margin that a recount of the votes was triggered under Florida state law, beginning a series of legal battles between Bush and the Democratic candidate Al Gore and considerable public controversy. After the completion of a machine recount, the Florida Supreme Court ordered a manual recount due to continued concerns over the validity of the election. The case was appealed to the Supreme Court, which halted the recount in the Bush v. Gore and Bush v. Palm Beach County Canvassing Board decisions, which Bush to win Florida by a 0.009 percent margin and the electoral vote.

List of controversial elections - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2004 United States presidential election : The certification of Republican electors in Ohio were legally challenged.Representative John Conyers investigated voter suppression, culminating in his report What went wrong in Ohio. Several independent researchers including Bob Fitrakis, Mark Crispin Miller, Steven F. Freeman, Richard Hayes Phillips and Richard Charnin published books alleging that Bush won the election due to Electoral fraud and Voter suppression.

On top of this, Ken (Uncle Tom) Blackwell a REPUBLICAN BUSHY was in charge of Ohio elections. He QUICKLY certified the votes before Kerry could ask for a recount. Under Ohio law once certified, it's too late. So while legal, it was a shady move. Don't be stupid Ray.

 

[sealybobo]

Could have, should have, would have. What your posts show is that electronic voting machines are not perfect, especially nearly 20 years ago. I can show you the same kind of claims with the Dominion machines. In any case, FactCheck found that yes, there were problems (as expected) as they put it, but no evidence of any kind of tampering with the machines or malfunctions on any measurable scale. FactChck updates their posts when new developments unfold.

• 2020 United States presidential election — The election was heavily reliant on mail-in ballots due to the COVID-19 pandemic. The Republican Donald Trump repeatedly alleged that mail-in ballots would allow the Democratic Party to commit electoral fraud. Snopes immediately debunked the claim.[27][28] Trump's critics accused him of blocking funding to the U.S. Postal Service to sabotage the election, although Postmaster General Louis DeJoy later agreed to delay certain changes until after the election.[29] Trump also suggested that he would not accept the results if he lost and even refused to commit to a peaceful transition.[30][31] A unanimous vote of the U.S. Senate, and the U.S. Armed Forces announced their commitment to a peaceful transition, while Trump's comments were heavily criticized.[32][30] International observers from OSCE described the elections as well-managed, but said that baseless allegations of systematic deficiencies, made by the incumbent President, harm public trust in democratic institutions.[33] Various allegations of fraud relating to election processes in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Arizona were also debunked by independent fact-checkingorganizations like FactCheck.org and Snopes.[34][35][36][37][38] Trump ultimately lost the election to Joe Biden, but refused to concede, continued to repeat allegations of voter fraud, and obstructed the presidential transition.[39] Despite there being no evidence for voter fraud, there were hundreds of affidavits across the country alleging that there was voter fraud and voter irregularities.[40][41][42][43] On January 6, 2021, a mob breached the police lines and invaded the U.S. Capitol, delaying the counting of the electoral votes by several hours, and resulting in the shooting death of a protestor. Trump was subsequently impeached by the House due to his being accused of inciting the insurrection; he was later acquitted of these charges.

 

[Ms. Turquoise]

Yes he did, because a VP is in charge when the President cannot be. That's besides the fact Trump put him in charge if anything did happen.

When there is a threat of any kind to a US President, the SS immediately rushes him to an undisclosed location for his safety regardless how little chance there is for harm to come to a President. During 911, Bush was quickly ushered to an undisclosed location even though the threat was not guns or bombs. They were airplanes, and I seriously doubt some hijacker would use a plane to find and kill President Bush.

Bottom line is Trump had zero to do with how long it took the Guard to get there. From my understanding, they are even restricted from communications until it's assured the threat is under control and nobody can use technology to locate a President.

Trump was not in an undisclosed location during the insurrection. He was at the WHITE HOUSE.
So, why couldn't he have called the National Guard? Even people close to him were begging him to intervene, but he refused.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Stop being stupid

• 2000 United States presidential election - After a close election in which the winner was unclear, the Republican candidate George W. Bush won Florida by such a slim margin that a recount of the votes was triggered under Florida state law, beginning a series of legal battles between Bush and the Democratic candidate Al Gore and considerable public controversy. After the completion of a machine recount, the Florida Supreme Court ordered a manual recount due to continued concerns over the validity of the election. The case was appealed to the Supreme Court, which halted the recount in the Bush v. Gore and Bush v. Palm Beach County Canvassing Board decisions, which Bush to win Florida by a 0.009 percent margin and the electoral vote.

List of controversial elections - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2004 United States presidential election : The certification of Republican electors in Ohio were legally challenged.Representative John Conyers investigated voter suppression, culminating in his report What went wrong in Ohio. Several independent researchers including Bob Fitrakis, Mark Crispin Miller, Steven F. Freeman, Richard Hayes Phillips and Richard Charnin published books alleging that Bush won the election due to Electoral fraud and Voter suppression.

On top of this, Ken (Uncle Tom) Blackwell a REPUBLICAN BUSHY was in charge of Ohio elections. He QUICKLY certified the votes before Kerry could ask for a recount. Under Ohio law once certified, it's too late. So while legal, it was a shady move. Don't be stupid Ray.

Oh, that old rag voter suppression again. Sorry, no voter suppression happened anywhere in our state. And no, nobody pulled a fast one on Kerry. He had no intention of asking for a recount:

Ohio was won by incumbent President George W. Bush by a 2.10% margin of victory. Prior to the election, most news organizations considered the Buckeye state as a swing state. The state's economic situation gave hope for John Kerry. In the end, the state became the deciding factor of the entire election. Kerry conceded the state, and the entire election, the morning following election night, as Bush won the state and its 20 electoral votes.

2004 United States presidential election in Ohio - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, the recount in 2000 was stopped because it went past the deadline as outlined in Florida state law. That's what should have happened in the first place.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Trump was not in an undisclosed location during the insurrection. He was at the WHITE HOUSE.
So, why couldn't he have called the National Guard? Even people close to him were begging him to intervene, but he refused.

The President doesn't make the call to the National Guard, the Pentagon does, and that's exactly what happened as my link outlined.

 

[evenflow1969]

I doubt that very much.

There are twice as many guns as there are people in the US

You're saying the government has 600 million guns?

Lol, the gov. Has the ammo. Empty guns are kinda worthless

 

[scruffy]

Lol, the gov. Has the ammo. Empty guns are kinda worthless

Horseshit.

The streets are FULL of ammo. There is no ammo shortage.