Michigan Parents sentenced to 10 to 15 years.

[2aguy]

There was a case in Massachusetts when Dukakas was governor and the state ran a weekend furlough program for prison inmates

There was a prisoner who told the prison shrinks that if he ever got out he would kill his ex-wife

The shrinks ignored what he told them and recommended that he be released anyway

As per SOP the prison notified the local police that he was free

The cops were not as stupid as the shrinks and the first thing they did was to call his ex-wife to tell her she was in danger

But she could not come to the phone because she was already dead

The incompetent lib news media did not follow the case after that so I dont know what happened to the quack doctors

They should have been fired and defrocked but I imagine that nothing happened to them at all

Now Dukakis can be arrested.

 

[2aguy]

First the link.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243555351/crumbley-james-jennifer-ethan-parents-oxford-school-shooter-sentence

Obviously I am not in favor of school shootings. I am no supporter of murder. I suspect this thread will be hijacked to that argument but I hope it stays close to topic.

Now the opinion. I’ve been waiting for the usual suspects to start ranting and they’ve been silent. So I decided I’d start the thread.

The fly in the buttermilk is that the parents didn’t commit the crime. Their crime was buying a gun, and not storing it in a way that would prevent their son from getting it while they were not present in the house. While they didn’t pull their kid from school after warnings on that fateful day, the people trained didn’t see any immediate threat either. The School Councilors and Staff.

So the question that springs to my mind is the rest of us. Let’s say you tuck a gun under your car seat and someone steals it. Are you now responsible for anything that happens with that gun? If someone takes it without permission, steals it, where does your responsibility end?

If you are wondering, no I was not in favor of the charges, the trial, or the precedent this sets. I am honestly surprised nobody else has pointed out the problems.

Where does the idea of keeping a good boy from going bad end? I thought it had ended in the 1980’s, but alas, it seems not.

Cars kill mor kids than guns….so any parent that allows their 16 year old to use their car and they cause a fatal crash, the parents can now be sent to prison. That is now the precedent.

 

[Mac-7]

Cars kill mor kids than guns….so any parent that allows their 16 year old to use their car and they cause a fatal crash, the parents can now be sent to prison. That is now the precedent.

I think the parents and teachers share some responsibility for what happened

The authorities are afraid of being sued by the ACLU or some other ambulance chasing civil rights cabal of lawyers so they do nothing

But I also cant believe how stupid the parents acted by buying that kid a gun

 

[SavannahMann]

I, for one, would not have handed a semi-automatic pistol to a fifteen-yr-old.

I was eight when my Dad taught me to shoot both a .22 LR, and a .44 Black Powder Kentucky Rifle.

The weapons were stored in Dad’s closet when I was growing up. I mention that because according to the articles I’ve read the Father in question did something similar. He did not merely hand the pistol to Junior and tell him to have a good time as your reply suggests.

Shooting requires discipline. Eye hand coordination, breath control, and patience. You have to act responsibly. You are permitted to perform an action with a lot of potential for danger if you do not respect it.

I can see a similar intention for the Father. The desire to give the boy some Father Son time. To help the boy grow. To show him that responsibility is present in everything we do. Millions of Fathers do the same thing every year.

Dad never took me hunting. He explained it to me. But he never took me. The reason was he didn’t like hunting. I think it reminded him of the lean times growing up when he and his brothers had to bring home game for the family to eat. That was why he got the .22 LR as a gift at 16. So he could hunt squirrel and rabbit for the family dinners.

I inherited that rifle. I still have it. I knew how to shoot long before I joined the Army. I was rated Expert with every weapon the Military tried me out on. Part of that is the skills my Dad taught me growing up.

 

[JoeB131]

You are an idiot…..the school did not call the police. The school did not expel the student……the school is more culpable than the parents but you have always targeted people who aren’t responsible for gun crime and and give a pass to the actual gun criminals.

The cops have got better things to do than deal with unruly children.

These parents had a violent child and bought him a gun for his birthday. They need to spend a long time in prison thinking about what they did wrong.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I was eight when my Dad taught me to shoot both a .22 LR, and a .44 Black Powder Kentucky Rifle.

The weapons were stored in Dad’s closet when I was growing up. I mention that because according to the articles I’ve read the Father in question did something similar. He did not merely hand the pistol to Junior and tell him to have a good time as your reply suggests.

Shooting requires discipline. Eye hand coordination, breath control, and patience. You have to act responsibly. You are permitted to perform an action with a lot of potential for danger if you do not respect it.

I can see a similar intention for the Father. The desire to give the boy some Father Son time. To help the boy grow. To show him that responsibility is present in everything we do. Millions of Fathers do the same thing every year.

Dad never took me hunting. He explained it to me. But he never took me. The reason was he didn’t like hunting. I think it reminded him of the lean times growing up when he and his brothers had to bring home game for the family to eat. That was why he got the .22 LR as a gift at 16. So he could hunt squirrel and rabbit for the family dinners.

I inherited that rifle. I still have it. I knew how to shoot long before I joined the Army. I was rated Expert with every weapon the Military tried me out on. Part of that is the skills my Dad taught me growing up.

No doubt. My dad had zero interest in guns but my eldest brother remains a true gun nut (though now a demented ward of the State of Illinois). I practiced shooting cans with him, clay pigeons with friends' families, neighbors, etc. We did bows and arrows. Throwing knives. Blow darts. Gasoline galore. Ether. Calcium carbide cannons. Fireworks. My entire childhood involved blowing shit up for kicks and giggles nearly daily.

My eldest brother would bark orders and beat the piss out of the rest of us when my parents weren't around. He regularly threatened us all with his big man knives and guns. It came as huge relief when he finally joined the Air Force and left for Germany. He eventually gave me a .22 LR which I soon grew bored with and gave to an in-law. Then he claimed he had only loaned it to me and demanded I give it back. My in-law had already sold it. Oh well!

Our neighbor across the road was a gun nut who hated dogs. There were few fences and little road traffic back then, so most just let their pets run free. Well that just pissed him off no end. So first he'd holler then shoot them with salt when they predictably didn't listen. He softened up a lot shortly before he died and silently expressed much regret to me personally. I grew up with his youngest son who loved showing off his dad's gun collection, none of which was ever locked up. Ammo always readily available.

I've never shot anyone, but my interest died when I shot some bird with that .22 rifle out of shear boredom. The image of it falling like a rock and hitting the ground with a dull thud just stuck. Made me realize what a jerk I'd become. I'd seen lots of kids torture bugs and small animals. Never interested me. We grew tons of veggies and never ate much meat. No need.

Things change with time. Despite ever more guns and the endless beating of war drums, violent crime has gone down. We've no need to study war no more.

 

[Dadoalex]

First the link.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243555351/crumbley-james-jennifer-ethan-parents-oxford-school-shooter-sentence

Obviously I am not in favor of school shootings. I am no supporter of murder. I suspect this thread will be hijacked to that argument but I hope it stays close to topic.

Now the opinion. I’ve been waiting for the usual suspects to start ranting and they’ve been silent. So I decided I’d start the thread.

The fly in the buttermilk is that the parents didn’t commit the crime. Their crime was buying a gun, and not storing it in a way that would prevent their son from getting it while they were not present in the house. ...

this is not true.

First the link.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243555351/crumbley-james-jennifer-ethan-parents-oxford-school-shooter-sentence

Obviously I am not in favor of school shootings. I am no supporter of murder. I suspect this thread will be hijacked to that argument but I hope it stays close to topic.

Now the opinion. I’ve been waiting for the usual suspects to start ranting and they’ve been silent. So I decided I’d start the thread.

The fly in the buttermilk is that the parents didn’t commit the crime. Their crime was buying a gun, and not storing it in a way that would prevent their son from getting it while they were not present in the house....

This is a lie and you know it.

"Jennifer Crumbley described the gun on social media as an early Christmas gift."

It was a gift to the kid.

That you feel the need to lie says all we need know about your actual views.

 

[Dadoalex]

Alas, to excuse the people at the school because you excuse the parents seems shameful.

I ask you: IF school experts can't see the utter depravity of a person who would do this, can they even see the sun at midday ?????


"murdered four classmates and shot seven other people at Oxford High School"
THIS WHAT I REFER TO

Mental health​

His journal contained entries about birds he tortured to death, along with a note about a bird's head in a jar that he left in a school bathroom. According to what he wrote, he hoped telling school officials about the bird may allow him to get mental health help.

"All one of my teachers has to do is send me to the office and I will tell them about the bird head, and I can get help," he wrote. "One call and that can save a lot of lives. My evil has fully taken over inside me and I used to like it, but now I don't want to be evil."

He also wrote that he considered telling school officials that he was planning a shooting.

He discussed his mental health and mentioned in entries read in court that he hoped he would get sent to the office.

"That will show them that I have given up, and they will keep an eye on me," he wrote. "It will make them see that I am a possible shooter, and so when I do my shooting they will have something to put for motivation."

He also wrote about being alone, saying that he barely talks to his parents or other people.

Ethan Crumbley's journal, search history show thorough planning of Oxford High School shooting

In his journal, Crumbley planned the shooting, discussed his future in prison, shared a glimpse of his mental health and home life, and detailed other violent tendencies.

www.fox2detroit.com

The school DID sound alarms.
The school DID NOT buy the kids a gun in response to those alarms.

 

[Dadoalex]

If the kid was a danger, why didn’t the school expel him?
The parents were asked to take him home for the day. What would that have solved?
He would just come back the next day

????

What exactly did you expect the school to do?

Being a nut is not against the law
He'd done nothing warranting expulsion

Absent his parents, fully aware of his mental state, buying him a firearm as "an early Christmas present" there is little evidence he had the wherewithal to follow through on his crazy beyond drawing pictures.

Short of expulsion, sending him home voluntarily was the school's only option.

 

[Anathema]

Sounds like the parents should have removed the dangerous object from the house… the child.

 

[Dadoalex]

Here is the thing. Reality time. We want to believe the best in friends and relatives. Think about your own family. You have a Black Sheep there somewhere in the family tree. We all do. And we all want to believe it isn’t that bad. That is normal, we are human, and we want to believe it.

This is where the professionals come in. They see things dispassionately. At least they are supposed to. The School did not say that the boy was a threat. They agreed with the parents that the boy should see a therapist. A belief that didn’t have time to get out in place. A few hours later the horror was done.

There was no law requiring secure storage of firearms. My Father taught me to shoot. He had guns. They were not locked up in a safe. They were in Dad’s closet when I grew up. Hell I was taught to shoot the same Rifle my Father was given for Christmas when he was 16 years old.

What bothers me is the argument. They should have known. They are responsible because they should have known. I can see this being used more and more.

I expect some guy will come home from work and find his guns gone. He will report it to the police and they’ll take a report. A week later the guy will be arrested because one of his guns was used in a crime. He should have gotten a safe. Or a better safe. He should have known that someone would steal the gun and do a horrific crime.

They aren’t guilty of an active crime. They didn’t shoot anyone. They didn’t hand the gun to Junior and tell him to shoot the school up. They wanted to believe that Junior wasn’t as bad as we now know he was.

That's why the charge was manslaughter, not murder.

Black sheep in my family?
SURE!
Buy any of them a Glock? NEVER.
Make sure all weapons are secure when they're around? You betcha!

Stupidity and ignorance are not affirmative defenses.

 

[Dadoalex]

It is just the tip of the iceberg

Not just crazy kids making violent drawings but any kid who is involved in gangs, has friends who are a bad influence, who is involved in petty crimes, drugs.
Are parents responsible for any crime their kid commits?
You should have known your kid would rob that liquor store

Your kid talks about wanting to rob a liquor store.
How liquor stores bug the shit out of him because they don't give him any liquor.

Knowing this you buy him a sawed off shotgun and a Nixon mask as "early Christmas presents."

Whether you understand what's happening next or not you aided and abetted.

Stupidity and ignorance are not affirmative defenses.

 

[Dadoalex]

If the weapon of choice had been a knife or a pipe bomb the event would have made news but the parents would not have been blamed for aiding & abetting. The left is currently fixated on firearms, LGBT, Jews & Trump like any of those four issues are hot button issues for them. The rank & file statist left marxinazis have been indoctrinated into groupthink which makes them perfect targets for "conditioned stimulus" which sets them up to give a "conditioned response".

If the parents bought him bomb making equipment they'd certainly be held accountable.
Knives are common household items but if they got him a machete after hearing him talk about chopping off heads...

 

[Dadoalex]

IDK much about this case, but it seems the parents are catching the raw end of the deal.
This is precedent setting and people are not going to like the results.

The ONLY thing I don't like about the conviction is that I think the sentence should have been in the 3-5 year range.

They were found guilty by a jury, not a judge.
12 people all said guilty.

Why not ask the parents of the dead their opinion?

 

[TNHarley]

The ONLY thing I don't like about the conviction is that I think the sentence should have been in the 3-5 year range.

They were found guilty by a jury, not a judge.
12 people all said guilty.

Why not ask the parents of the dead their opinion?

Their opinion doesnt matter.

 

[JoeB131]

Sounds like the parents should have removed the dangerous object from the house… the child.

Once again proving gun nuts love their guns more than their children?

 

[Dadoalex]

Their opinion doesnt matter.

Theirs doesn't
The jury's doesn't.
But your does?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

you know those parents testified at sentencing.
So maybe theirs does matter?

 

[TNHarley]

Theirs doesn't
The jury's doesn't.
But your does?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

you know those parents testified at sentencing.
So maybe theirs does matter?

I didnt say the juries doesnt. Nor did I say mine does.
Why must you lie?

 

[Dadoalex]

I didnt say the juries doesnt. Nor did I say mine does.
Why must you lie?

I never lie.
That's your thing.

You posted your opinion.
ERGO you believe your opinion counts.

Here's a quarter. See if you can buy an IQ point or 3.

 

[TNHarley]

I never lie.
That's your thing.

You posted your opinion.
ERGO you believe your opinion counts.

Here's a quarter. See if you can buy an IQ point or 3.

Its a message board dufus