Michigan Parents sentenced to 10 to 15 years.

[rightwinger]

Expelling him would not have done a thing. In fact, it would have provided him with more time and motivation in the school mass murders.

It would have denied him access to the school

 

[Votto]

Give it a friggin rest. This ain't about Hunter Biden. Stop trying so hard to lose.

He committed a felony and belongs in prison like everyone else under the law

Try again you corruption apologist you.

I don't give a damn about your cultist corrupt party you live for.

 

[Vrenn]

It would have denied him access to the school

Sounds to me like he had access no matter what. No info about the security measures taken prior to the attack.

 

[SavannahMann]

I don't think good / bad kid is the issue. Knowing whether your pre-18-yr-old is mentally ill to the point of being a danger to others is a parents duty. The school or some of its employees could also be held partially responsible, but it seems they largely did what they could in this case.

The parents had one child. One. So they are going through everything for the first time. Absolutely they were looking at things with rose colored glasses. But what parent doesn’t?

Time and again on this board we’ve read didn’t do nothin mocking the parents of some criminal kid or another. But don’t we all do that?

How many of us have relatives who have taken a bad path? How many of us spent how many years still convinced it was all going to change? Or a mistake?

When I talk to someone who is an expert. Be it a Doctor or a Mechanic. I listen to them and give a lot of weight to their words, and suggestions. I trust that they are doing their best, and giving me the best advice they can.

I try and imagine myself in the shoes of those parents. I recognize there is a problem, but how big of a problem? The experts tell me that they see no immediate threat. Ok. That starts to give me a shape of the problem. Some limits to work with. We agree to get Junior into some therapy right away. I agree and promise to make an appointment for the next day or two. I do so because I believe there is no immediate threat. We have time to deal with this. We have time to help the child.

I’m reminded of a case in Kentucky. A man was brought before a Judge and begged for help. He was hearing voices and they were telling him terrible things to do. The Judge ordered the man to a Mental Hospital. The cops put him on a bus to Florida instead.

In that case the man got off the bus and told a cop at the other end what happened. They did some checking and found it was true. But how different it could have gone. Imagine if our sick fellow had gotten a gun, no matter where, and killed several people.

In that case the cops decided the social worker, the judge, and the psych nurse were all wrong. This guy was no danger, and even if he was put him on a bus and he’s someone else’s problem.

In the parents case, nobody said the kid needed to be committed. Nobody said he was an imminent threat. Nobody said anything along those lines. They were found guilty because they should have known. That’s a dangerous precedent IMO.

 

[Libby von H]

Did the parents read that journal?

Aaah, stupid rears his head...Can even you imagine that someone like that comes down to breakfast, kisses Mom and Dad, shows them his homeword, asks for the car so he go out with his many friends, and tells you all about his after school activities with his beloved teachers -- or did you just not the hell read what I posted

YOU tell ME what those school experts can detect if they missed this guy

 

[SavannahMann]

Okay, there's you , me, the parents, etc. but you don't mention the school experts. I posted the journal entries.
Why spend all that money on people that can't see the sun at noonday

Shooting plans​

In his journal, Crumbley planned the shooting, discussed his future in prison, shared a glimpse of his mental health and home life, and detailed other violent tendencies.

Crumbley described what he wanted to do to students at the high school, writing that he would find a pretty girl and shoot her in the back of the head before finding a full classroom.

"I wish to hear the screams of the children as I shoot them," he wrote.

He wrote he would keep shooting people until police arrived then surrender and plead guilty.

Crumbley also repeatedly noted that he would be spending his life in prison.

"I wonder what life in prison will be like," he scrawled along the side of a page that had a list of what he would bring on the day of the shooting. That list included a pistol, extra magazines, Molotov cocktails, a hat, a mask, and more. He also wrote on that page that he would warn some of his close friends not to come to school that day.

==================
This is one value of good parochial schools This boy's soul was diseased.

There are a lot of sick people. Mentally deficient or deranged. I believe in helping them. But I have a problem with the should have known argument.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Often the best we can do is try and learn moving forward.

Remember Pearl Harbor. The Lieutenant who got the call after the information center had shut down about the radar blip coming in. He knew some planes were expected. Nobody told him that the Japanese might attack. He was put before and inquiry and cleared. We didn’t expect a Lieutenant to just know. So while the quote. Don’t worry about it. That quote is bad and a head shaker to us in the future. Nobody thought that Japan could hit Pearl like that.

We decided that there was no way he could have known, and even if he had there wasn’t time for him to get anything organized.

I don’t like they should have known. From my personal perspective it appears as though they did what anyone would in a similar situation.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I think it's great topic for discussion. As someone who was a kid once and having raised two, I know a little. But there many competing factors to consider including cultural, political, and generational changes. It's open ended. I'm just saying given what I've heard so far, I be one going to those school board meetings that I mentioned earlier, and every so often smacking those parents silly in the gauntlet line with a wet pool noodle. Not locking them up longer. YMMV.

 

[rightwinger]

Aaah, stupid rears his head...Can even you imagine that someone like that comes down to breakfast, kisses Mom and Dad, shows them his homeword, asks for the car so he go out with his many friends, and tells you all about his after school activities with his beloved teachers -- or did you just not the hell read what I posted

YOU tell ME what those school experts can detect if they missed this guy

Come on Skippy.

You used that journal as evidence against the parents
Now you admit they never read it

You are so easy

 

[Missourian]

Oh, I would.

Their kid was a ticking time bomb they did nothing about.

rightwinger made a great point.

"Did you know your son was in a gang?

Did you know your son had a gun?

Well, his accomplice is willing to testify that you both knew your 15 year old son was in a gang AND that he carried a gun.

Your child was a ticking timebomb that you did NOTHING about!"

Guilty...10 year sentence.

 

[Grumblenuts]

From my personal perspective it appears as though they did what anyone would in a similar situation.

I, for one, would not have handed a semi-automatic pistol to a fifteen-yr-old.

 

[2aguy]

First the link.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243555351/crumbley-james-jennifer-ethan-parents-oxford-school-shooter-sentence

Obviously I am not in favor of school shootings. I am no supporter of murder. I suspect this thread will be hijacked to that argument but I hope it stays close to topic.

Now the opinion. I’ve been waiting for the usual suspects to start ranting and they’ve been silent. So I decided I’d start the thread.

The fly in the buttermilk is that the parents didn’t commit the crime. Their crime was buying a gun, and not storing it in a way that would prevent their son from getting it while they were not present in the house. While they didn’t pull their kid from school after warnings on that fateful day, the people trained didn’t see any immediate threat either. The School Councilors and Staff.

So the question that springs to my mind is the rest of us. Let’s say you tuck a gun under your car seat and someone steals it. Are you now responsible for anything that happens with that gun? If someone takes it without permission, steals it, where does your responsibility end?

If you are wondering, no I was not in favor of the charges, the trial, or the precedent this sets. I am honestly surprised nobody else has pointed out the problems.

Where does the idea of keeping a good boy from going bad end? I thought it had ended in the 1980’s, but alas, it seems not.

Wow, we agree on something……

The school was not concerned…..if they thought the kid was actually a deadly threat they could have had the police intervene to remove the child from the school or expelled the student……..when the parents came in the school didn’t tell them to take the student home…

What the anti-gun extremists do not understand……if your teenager gets involved in a deadly car crash with the family car…..,that kid’s parents are now liable and can be jailed………

The parents did not kill anyone…l.they did not give the kid permission to take the gun……,,

 

[2aguy]

The school did. They brought the parents in for a conference, laid out how truly fucked up he was in the head, and the MOther said,"Are we done here?" and did nothing.


I have absolutely ZERO problem with the parents going to prison for this one.

You are an idiot…..the school did not call the police. The school did not expel the student……the school is more culpable than the parents but you have always targeted people who aren’t responsible for gun crime and and give a pass to the actual gun criminals.

 

[2aguy]

rightwinger made a great point.

"Did you know your son was in a gang?

Did you know your son had a gun?

Well, his accomplice is willing to testify that you both knew your 15 year old son was in a gang AND that he carried a gun.

Your child was a ticking timebomb that you did NOTHING about!"

Guilty...10 year sentence.

Yep………but the democrats don’t want to stop actual gun criminals…they need them out there shooting people so the democrats can push gun control.…so they won’t prosecute the parents of gang members……..

 

[2aguy]

Okay, there's you , me, the parents, etc. but you don't mention the school experts. I posted the journal entries.
Why spend all that money on people that can't see the sun at noonday

Shooting plans​

In his journal, Crumbley planned the shooting, discussed his future in prison, shared a glimpse of his mental health and home life, and detailed other violent tendencies.

Crumbley described what he wanted to do to students at the high school, writing that he would find a pretty girl and shoot her in the back of the head before finding a full classroom.

"I wish to hear the screams of the children as I shoot them," he wrote.

He wrote he would keep shooting people until police arrived then surrender and plead guilty.

Crumbley also repeatedly noted that he would be spending his life in prison.

"I wonder what life in prison will be like," he scrawled along the side of a page that had a list of what he would bring on the day of the shooting. That list included a pistol, extra magazines, Molotov cocktails, a hat, a mask, and more. He also wrote on that page that he would warn some of his close friends not to come to school that day.

==================
This is one value of good parochial schools This boy's soul was diseased.

Did the school contact the police? If they did, did the police act in any way…..there have been other teens threatening school shootings, not even committing them, who have been arrested ………

If the school didn’t expel the kid…they are just as, or more culpable than the parents…,

 

[2aguy]

I don't think good / bad kid is the issue. Knowing whether your pre-18-yr-old is mentally ill to the point of being a danger to others is a parents duty. The school or some of its employees could also be held partially responsible, but it seems they largely did what they could in this case.

No, the journal shows intent….the school should have called the police and the police should have arrested the kid….other schools have done that and the police arrested the teen, preventing a shooting.

 

[2aguy]

First the link.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243555351/crumbley-james-jennifer-ethan-parents-oxford-school-shooter-sentence

Obviously I am not in favor of school shootings. I am no supporter of murder. I suspect this thread will be hijacked to that argument but I hope it stays close to topic.

Now the opinion. I’ve been waiting for the usual suspects to start ranting and they’ve been silent. So I decided I’d start the thread.

The fly in the buttermilk is that the parents didn’t commit the crime. Their crime was buying a gun, and not storing it in a way that would prevent their son from getting it while they were not present in the house. While they didn’t pull their kid from school after warnings on that fateful day, the people trained didn’t see any immediate threat either. The School Councilors and Staff.

So the question that springs to my mind is the rest of us. Let’s say you tuck a gun under your car seat and someone steals it. Are you now responsible for anything that happens with that gun? If someone takes it without permission, steals it, where does your responsibility end?

If you are wondering, no I was not in favor of the charges, the trial, or the precedent this sets. I am honestly surprised nobody else has pointed out the problems.

Where does the idea of keeping a good boy from going bad end? I thought it had ended in the 1980’s, but alas, it seems not.

The school did not call the police…..

NORWOOD – A 12-year-old Norwood middle school student was arrestedSunday after police say the child sent a text message threatening a mass shooting.

The student, who has not been identified because of their age, allegedly sent the message Friday morning, warning of a shooting they claimed would happen Monday at Coakley Middle School.

12-year-old Norwood middle school student arrested for mass shooting threat

A 12-year-old Norwood middle school student was arrested Sunday after police say the child sent a text message threatening a mass shooting.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[2aguy]

The parents had one child. One. So they are going through everything for the first time. Absolutely they were looking at things with rose colored glasses. But what parent doesn’t?

Time and again on this board we’ve read didn’t do nothin mocking the parents of some criminal kid or another. But don’t we all do that?

How many of us have relatives who have taken a bad path? How many of us spent how many years still convinced it was all going to change? Or a mistake?

When I talk to someone who is an expert. Be it a Doctor or a Mechanic. I listen to them and give a lot of weight to their words, and suggestions. I trust that they are doing their best, and giving me the best advice they can.

I try and imagine myself in the shoes of those parents. I recognize there is a problem, but how big of a problem? The experts tell me that they see no immediate threat. Ok. That starts to give me a shape of the problem. Some limits to work with. We agree to get Junior into some therapy right away. I agree and promise to make an appointment for the next day or two. I do so because I believe there is no immediate threat. We have time to deal with this. We have time to help the child.

I’m reminded of a case in Kentucky. A man was brought before a Judge and begged for help. He was hearing voices and they were telling him terrible things to do. The Judge ordered the man to a Mental Hospital. The cops put him on a bus to Florida instead.

In that case the man got off the bus and told a cop at the other end what happened. They did some checking and found it was true. But how different it could have gone. Imagine if our sick fellow had gotten a gun, no matter where, and killed several people.

In that case the cops decided the social worker, the judge, and the psych nurse were all wrong. This guy was no danger, and even if he was put him on a bus and he’s someone else’s problem.

In the parents case, nobody said the kid needed to be committed. Nobody said he was an imminent threat. Nobody said anything along those lines. They were found guilty because they should have known. That’s a dangerous precedent IMO.

Again…amazingly, we agree…..

How does anyone know what the parents planned to do following the meeting? The school did not think the kid was a threat, they did not call the police……the parents left the school and could have planned on taking action……

Leaving the kid in school? The school did not tell them they had to take the student home……the school did not call the police…..

The parents believed the kid was in a building with adult supervision…..professional, adult supervision and trained child experts…..,,why would they think the kid was a danger if those very experts did not think the kid was a threat?

From this point forward, every gang member’s mother and father can be arrested and jailed for the crimes of their kids…..since, far beyond just a meeting with their school, their kids have actual criminal records…

Also, again…..if a kid is. Driving the family car and kills someone in an accident….the parents can now be sent to prison….the parents in this shooting did not give the kid the gun…he took it…..the parents in a car crash incident actually gave the kid the car to use….

Because of their obsession with hating gun owners, gun grabbers are unleashing punishment on innocent people for crimes they will not commit.

 

[2aguy]

The shooting happened the day of the meeting..l.l.the parents left the kid at the school…….after the school told the parents the kid was not a threat, and the school did not bring in the police….

So, you attend a meeting with the school and they tell you the kid is having issues………but they are not concerned enough to bring in police……you leave the meeting ……..did the parents plan on talking to their kid after school…..to see what was going on? Were they at home discussing getting their kid counseling to see what was going on?

They left their kid in a building filled with trained, adult professionals…….and he was under their supervision……….and the school failed in every way……

Now imagine you are in their position and your school tells you your kid has issues…….but they don’t tell you he is considered a threat….no police have been called in……..

What would you do?

You go home and plan what you think you should do….but the kid is already in the school with the gun…….and the attack happens……..you had no idea the kid was dangerous….and the school tells you he isn’t a threat……

 

[2aguy]

There are a lot of sick people. Mentally deficient or deranged. I believe in helping them. But I have a problem with the should have known argument.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Often the best we can do is try and learn moving forward.

Remember Pearl Harbor. The Lieutenant who got the call after the information center had shut down about the radar blip coming in. He knew some planes were expected. Nobody told him that the Japanese might attack. He was put before and inquiry and cleared. We didn’t expect a Lieutenant to just know. So while the quote. Don’t worry about it. That quote is bad and a head shaker to us in the future. Nobody thought that Japan could hit Pearl like that.

We decided that there was no way he could have known, and even if he had there wasn’t time for him to get anything organized.

I don’t like they should have known. From my personal perspective it appears as though they did what anyone would in a similar situation.

And as others brought up….the parents of gang members actually do “know.” Under this precedent they are now culpable in all crimes committed by their criminal child……

 

[Mac-7]

I agree

They did nothing to encourage the shooting, buying a gun is legal, their son was not barred from firearms

If the kid was such a danger, the school should have identified him to the law

There was a case in Massachusetts when Dukakas was governor and the state ran a weekend furlough program for prison inmates

There was a prisoner who told the prison shrinks that if he ever got out he would kill his ex-wife

The shrinks ignored what he told them and recommended that he be released anyway

As per SOP the prison notified the local police that he was free

The cops were not as stupid as the shrinks and the first thing they did was to call his ex-wife to tell her she was in danger

But she could not come to the phone because she was already dead

The incompetent lib news media did not follow the case after that so I dont know what happened to the quack doctors

They should have been fired and defrocked but I imagine that nothing happened to them at all