Michigan Parents sentenced to 10 to 15 years.

[SavannahMann]

First the link.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243555351/crumbley-james-jennifer-ethan-parents-oxford-school-shooter-sentence

Obviously I am not in favor of school shootings. I am no supporter of murder. I suspect this thread will be hijacked to that argument but I hope it stays close to topic.

Now the opinion. I’ve been waiting for the usual suspects to start ranting and they’ve been silent. So I decided I’d start the thread.

The fly in the buttermilk is that the parents didn’t commit the crime. Their crime was buying a gun, and not storing it in a way that would prevent their son from getting it while they were not present in the house. While they didn’t pull their kid from school after warnings on that fateful day, the people trained didn’t see any immediate threat either. The School Councilors and Staff.

So the question that springs to my mind is the rest of us. Let’s say you tuck a gun under your car seat and someone steals it. Are you now responsible for anything that happens with that gun? If someone takes it without permission, steals it, where does your responsibility end?

If you are wondering, no I was not in favor of the charges, the trial, or the precedent this sets. I am honestly surprised nobody else has pointed out the problems.

Where does the idea of keeping a good boy from going bad end? I thought it had ended in the 1980’s, but alas, it seems not.

 

[Libby von H]

First the link.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243555351/crumbley-james-jennifer-ethan-parents-oxford-school-shooter-sentence

Obviously I am not in favor of school shootings. I am no supporter of murder. I suspect this thread will be hijacked to that argument but I hope it stays close to topic.

Now the opinion. I’ve been waiting for the usual suspects to start ranting and they’ve been silent. So I decided I’d start the thread.

The fly in the buttermilk is that the parents didn’t commit the crime. Their crime was buying a gun, and not storing it in a way that would prevent their son from getting it while they were not present in the house. While they didn’t pull their kid from school after warnings on that fateful day, the people trained didn’t see any immediate threat either. The School Councilors and Staff.

So the question that springs to my mind is the rest of us. Let’s say you tuck a gun under your car seat and someone steals it. Are you now responsible for anything that happens with that gun? If someone takes it without permission, steals it, where does your responsibility end?

If you are wondering, no I was not in favor of the charges, the trial, or the precedent this sets. I am honestly surprised nobody else has pointed out the problems.

Where does the idea of keeping a good boy from going bad end? I thought it had ended in the 1980’s, but alas, it seems not.

Alas, to excuse the people at the school because you excuse the parents seems shameful.

I ask you: IF school experts can't see the utter depravity of a person who would do this, can they even see the sun at midday ?????


"murdered four classmates and shot seven other people at Oxford High School"
THIS WHAT I REFER TO

Mental health​

His journal contained entries about birds he tortured to death, along with a note about a bird's head in a jar that he left in a school bathroom. According to what he wrote, he hoped telling school officials about the bird may allow him to get mental health help.

"All one of my teachers has to do is send me to the office and I will tell them about the bird head, and I can get help," he wrote. "One call and that can save a lot of lives. My evil has fully taken over inside me and I used to like it, but now I don't want to be evil."

He also wrote that he considered telling school officials that he was planning a shooting.

He discussed his mental health and mentioned in entries read in court that he hoped he would get sent to the office.

"That will show them that I have given up, and they will keep an eye on me," he wrote. "It will make them see that I am a possible shooter, and so when I do my shooting they will have something to put for motivation."

He also wrote about being alone, saying that he barely talks to his parents or other people.

Ethan Crumbley's journal, search history show thorough planning of Oxford High School shooting

In his journal, Crumbley planned the shooting, discussed his future in prison, shared a glimpse of his mental health and home life, and detailed other violent tendencies.

www.fox2detroit.com

 

[SweetSue92]

First the link.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243555351/crumbley-james-jennifer-ethan-parents-oxford-school-shooter-sentence

Obviously I am not in favor of school shootings. I am no supporter of murder. I suspect this thread will be hijacked to that argument but I hope it stays close to topic.

Now the opinion. I’ve been waiting for the usual suspects to start ranting and they’ve been silent. So I decided I’d start the thread.

The fly in the buttermilk is that the parents didn’t commit the crime. Their crime was buying a gun, and not storing it in a way that would prevent their son from getting it while they were not present in the house. While they didn’t pull their kid from school after warnings on that fateful day, the people trained didn’t see any immediate threat either. The School Councilors and Staff.

So the question that springs to my mind is the rest of us. Let’s say you tuck a gun under your car seat and someone steals it. Are you now responsible for anything that happens with that gun? If someone takes it without permission, steals it, where does your responsibility end?

If you are wondering, no I was not in favor of the charges, the trial, or the precedent this sets. I am honestly surprised nobody else has pointed out the problems.

Where does the idea of keeping a good boy from going bad end? I thought it had ended in the 1980’s, but alas, it seems not.

The parents knew. They knew their son was begging for help, they knew they had a gun, etc. The school asked them to take him home and they refused. So I say it's just about time that parents be called to responsibility for their children's actions. We need more of this, not less.

 

[rightwinger]

First the link.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243555351/crumbley-james-jennifer-ethan-parents-oxford-school-shooter-sentence

Obviously I am not in favor of school shootings. I am no supporter of murder. I suspect this thread will be hijacked to that argument but I hope it stays close to topic.

Now the opinion. I’ve been waiting for the usual suspects to start ranting and they’ve been silent. So I decided I’d start the thread.

The fly in the buttermilk is that the parents didn’t commit the crime. Their crime was buying a gun, and not storing it in a way that would prevent their son from getting it while they were not present in the house. While they didn’t pull their kid from school after warnings on that fateful day, the people trained didn’t see any immediate threat either. The School Councilors and Staff.

So the question that springs to my mind is the rest of us. Let’s say you tuck a gun under your car seat and someone steals it. Are you now responsible for anything that happens with that gun? If someone takes it without permission, steals it, where does your responsibility end?

If you are wondering, no I was not in favor of the charges, the trial, or the precedent this sets. I am honestly surprised nobody else has pointed out the problems.

Where does the idea of keeping a good boy from going bad end? I thought it had ended in the 1980’s, but alas, it seems not.

I agree

They did nothing to encourage the shooting, buying a gun is legal, their son was not barred from firearms

If the kid was such a danger, the school should have identified him to the law

 

[JoeB131]

I agree

They did nothing to encourage the shooting, buying a gun is legal, their son was not barred from firearms

If the kid was such a danger, the school should have identified him to the law

The school did. They brought the parents in for a conference, laid out how truly fucked up he was in the head, and the MOther said,"Are we done here?" and did nothing.


I have absolutely ZERO problem with the parents going to prison for this one.

 

[Libby von H]

I agree

They did nothing to encourage the shooting, buying a gun is legal, their son was not barred from firearms

If the kid was such a danger, the school should have identified him to the law

But you don't ever mention the culpability of the school
What kind of argument is that??????

==================

Mental health​

His journal contained entries about birds he tortured to death, along with a note about a bird's head in a jar that he left in a school bathroom. According to what he wrote, he hoped telling school officials about the bird may allow him to get mental health help.

"All one of my teachers has to do is send me to the office and I will tell them about the bird head, and I can get help," he wrote. "One call and that can save a lot of lives. My evil has fully taken over inside me and I used to like it, but now I don't want to be evil."

He also wrote that he considered telling school officials that he was planning a shooting.

He discussed his mental health and mentioned in entries read in court that he hoped he would get sent to the office.

"That will show them that I have given up, and they will keep an eye on me," he wrote. "It will make them see that I am a possible shooter, and so when I do my shooting they will have something to put for motivation."

He also wrote about being alone, saying that he barely talks to his parents or other people.

"I have no happiness or optimism left in me, as I am a burden to my parents," he wrote.
======================

Please explain to us the value of experts that can't tell this from normal

 

[rightwinger]

The school did. They brought the parents in for a conference, laid out how truly fucked up he was in the head, and the MOther said,"Are we done here?" and did nothing.


I have absolutely ZERO problem with the parents going to prison for this one.

If the kid was a danger, why didn’t the school expel him?
The parents were asked to take him home for the day. What would that have solved?
He would just come back the next day

 

[SavannahMann]

Alas, to excuse the people at the school because you excuse the parents seems shameful.

I ask you: IF school experts can't see the utter depravity of a person who would do this, can they even see the sun at midday ?????


"murdered four classmates and shot seven other people at Oxford High School"
THIS WHAT I REFER TO

Mental health​

His journal contained entries about birds he tortured to death, along with a note about a bird's head in a jar that he left in a school bathroom. According to what he wrote, he hoped telling school officials about the bird may allow him to get mental health help.

"All one of my teachers has to do is send me to the office and I will tell them about the bird head, and I can get help," he wrote. "One call and that can save a lot of lives. My evil has fully taken over inside me and I used to like it, but now I don't want to be evil."

He also wrote that he considered telling school officials that he was planning a shooting.

He discussed his mental health and mentioned in entries read in court that he hoped he would get sent to the office.

"That will show them that I have given up, and they will keep an eye on me," he wrote. "It will make them see that I am a possible shooter, and so when I do my shooting they will have something to put for motivation."

He also wrote about being alone, saying that he barely talks to his parents or other people.

Ethan Crumbley's journal, search history show thorough planning of Oxford High School shooting

In his journal, Crumbley planned the shooting, discussed his future in prison, shared a glimpse of his mental health and home life, and detailed other violent tendencies.

www.fox2detroit.com

Here is the thing. Reality time. We want to believe the best in friends and relatives. Think about your own family. You have a Black Sheep there somewhere in the family tree. We all do. And we all want to believe it isn’t that bad. That is normal, we are human, and we want to believe it.

This is where the professionals come in. They see things dispassionately. At least they are supposed to. The School did not say that the boy was a threat. They agreed with the parents that the boy should see a therapist. A belief that didn’t have time to get out in place. A few hours later the horror was done.

There was no law requiring secure storage of firearms. My Father taught me to shoot. He had guns. They were not locked up in a safe. They were in Dad’s closet when I grew up. Hell I was taught to shoot the same Rifle my Father was given for Christmas when he was 16 years old.

What bothers me is the argument. They should have known. They are responsible because they should have known. I can see this being used more and more.

I expect some guy will come home from work and find his guns gone. He will report it to the police and they’ll take a report. A week later the guy will be arrested because one of his guns was used in a crime. He should have gotten a safe. Or a better safe. He should have known that someone would steal the gun and do a horrific crime.

They aren’t guilty of an active crime. They didn’t shoot anyone. They didn’t hand the gun to Junior and tell him to shoot the school up. They wanted to believe that Junior wasn’t as bad as we now know he was.

 

[rightwinger]

Here is the thing. Reality time. We want to believe the best in friends and relatives. Think about your own family. You have a Black Sheep there somewhere in the family tree. We all do. And we all want to believe it isn’t that bad. That is normal, we are human, and we want to believe it.

This is where the professionals come in. They see things dispassionately. At least they are supposed to. The School did not say that the boy was a threat. They agreed with the parents that the boy should see a therapist. A belief that didn’t have time to get out in place. A few hours later the horror was done.

There was no law requiring secure storage of firearms. My Father taught me to shoot. He had guns. They were not locked up in a safe. They were in Dad’s closet when I grew up. Hell I was taught to shoot the same Rifle my Father was given for Christmas when he was 16 years old.

What bothers me is the argument. They should have known. They are responsible because they should have known. I can see this being used more and more.

I expect some guy will come home from work and find his guns gone. He will report it to the police and they’ll take a report. A week later the guy will be arrested because one of his guns was used in a crime. He should have gotten a safe. Or a better safe. He should have known that someone would steal the gun and do a horrific crime.

They aren’t guilty of an active crime. They didn’t shoot anyone. They didn’t hand the gun to Junior and tell him to shoot the school up. They wanted to believe that Junior wasn’t as bad as we now know he was.

It is just the tip of the iceberg

Not just crazy kids making violent drawings but any kid who is involved in gangs, has friends who are a bad influence, who is involved in petty crimes, drugs.
Are parents responsible for any crime their kid commits?
You should have known your kid would rob that liquor store

 

[eagle1462010]

Needs to be appealed up the food chain to SCOTUS if necessary.

Be different if they gave the gun saying go kill. They didnt believe he would go on a rampage.

 

[jackflash]

First the link.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243555351/crumbley-james-jennifer-ethan-parents-oxford-school-shooter-sentence

Obviously I am not in favor of school shootings. I am no supporter of murder. I suspect this thread will be hijacked to that argument but I hope it stays close to topic.

Now the opinion. I’ve been waiting for the usual suspects to start ranting and they’ve been silent. So I decided I’d start the thread.

The fly in the buttermilk is that the parents didn’t commit the crime. Their crime was buying a gun, and not storing it in a way that would prevent their son from getting it while they were not present in the house. While they didn’t pull their kid from school after warnings on that fateful day, the people trained didn’t see any immediate threat either. The School Councilors and Staff.

So the question that springs to my mind is the rest of us. Let’s say you tuck a gun under your car seat and someone steals it. Are you now responsible for anything that happens with that gun? If someone takes it without permission, steals it, where does your responsibility end?

If you are wondering, no I was not in favor of the charges, the trial, or the precedent this sets. I am honestly surprised nobody else has pointed out the problems.

Where does the idea of keeping a good boy from going bad end? I thought it had ended in the 1980’s, but alas, it seems not.

If the weapon of choice had been a knife or a pipe bomb the event would have made news but the parents would not have been blamed for aiding & abetting. The left is currently fixated on firearms, LGBT, Jews & Trump like any of those four issues are hot button issues for them. The rank & file statist left marxinazis have been indoctrinated into groupthink which makes them perfect targets for "conditioned stimulus" which sets them up to give a "conditioned response".

 

[Grumblenuts]

In a pre-sentencing interview with state officials, Jennifer Crumbley said that with the benefit of hindsight, "There are so many things I would change if I could go back in time."

In her statement, Jennifer Crumbley said she, her husband and her son, Ethan, were an average family.

"We weren't perfect but we loved our son and each other tremendously," Crumbley said. "This could be any parent up here in my shoes.

Rather than more prison time, I think maybe they should both be sentenced to attending all local school board meetings for life.. the first order of business being making them walk between lines of local parents, each wielding a large, cold, damp pool noodle..

 

[CrusaderFrank]

First the link.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243555351/crumbley-james-jennifer-ethan-parents-oxford-school-shooter-sentence

Obviously I am not in favor of school shootings. I am no supporter of murder. I suspect this thread will be hijacked to that argument but I hope it stays close to topic.

Now the opinion. I’ve been waiting for the usual suspects to start ranting and they’ve been silent. So I decided I’d start the thread.

The fly in the buttermilk is that the parents didn’t commit the crime. Their crime was buying a gun, and not storing it in a way that would prevent their son from getting it while they were not present in the house. While they didn’t pull their kid from school after warnings on that fateful day, the people trained didn’t see any immediate threat either. The School Councilors and Staff.

So the question that springs to my mind is the rest of us. Let’s say you tuck a gun under your car seat and someone steals it. Are you now responsible for anything that happens with that gun? If someone takes it without permission, steals it, where does your responsibility end?

If you are wondering, no I was not in favor of the charges, the trial, or the precedent this sets. I am honestly surprised nobody else has pointed out the problems.

Where does the idea of keeping a good boy from going bad end? I thought it had ended in the 1980’s, but alas, it seems not.

The parents of the animal who bashed the white girls head into the pavement should be charged as well

 

[TNHarley]

IDK much about this case, but it seems the parents are catching the raw end of the deal.
This is precedent setting and people are not going to like the results.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Where does the idea of keeping a good boy from going bad end? I thought it had ended in the 1980’s, but alas, it seems not.

I don't think good / bad kid is the issue. Knowing whether your pre-18-yr-old is mentally ill to the point of being a danger to others is a parents duty. The school or some of its employees could also be held partially responsible, but it seems they largely did what they could in this case.

 

[Libby von H]

Here is the thing. Reality time. We want to believe the best in friends and relatives. Think about your own family. You have a Black Sheep there somewhere in the family tree. We all do. And we all want to believe it isn’t that bad. That is normal, we are human, and we want to believe it.

This is where the professionals come in. They see things dispassionately. At least they are supposed to. The School did not say that the boy was a threat. They agreed with the parents that the boy should see a therapist. A belief that didn’t have time to get out in place. A few hours later the horror was done.

There was no law requiring secure storage of firearms. My Father taught me to shoot. He had guns. They were not locked up in a safe. They were in Dad’s closet when I grew up. Hell I was taught to shoot the same Rifle my Father was given for Christmas when he was 16 years old.

What bothers me is the argument. They should have known. They are responsible because they should have known. I can see this being used more and more.

I expect some guy will come home from work and find his guns gone. He will report it to the police and they’ll take a report. A week later the guy will be arrested because one of his guns was used in a crime. He should have gotten a safe. Or a better safe. He should have known that someone would steal the gun and do a horrific crime.

They aren’t guilty of an active crime. They didn’t shoot anyone. They didn’t hand the gun to Junior and tell him to shoot the school up. They wanted to believe that Junior wasn’t as bad as we now know he was.

Okay, there's you , me, the parents, etc. but you don't mention the school experts. I posted the journal entries.
Why spend all that money on people that can't see the sun at noonday

Shooting plans​

In his journal, Crumbley planned the shooting, discussed his future in prison, shared a glimpse of his mental health and home life, and detailed other violent tendencies.

Crumbley described what he wanted to do to students at the high school, writing that he would find a pretty girl and shoot her in the back of the head before finding a full classroom.

"I wish to hear the screams of the children as I shoot them," he wrote.

He wrote he would keep shooting people until police arrived then surrender and plead guilty.

Crumbley also repeatedly noted that he would be spending his life in prison.

"I wonder what life in prison will be like," he scrawled along the side of a page that had a list of what he would bring on the day of the shooting. That list included a pistol, extra magazines, Molotov cocktails, a hat, a mask, and more. He also wrote on that page that he would warn some of his close friends not to come to school that day.

==================
This is one value of good parochial schools This boy's soul was diseased.

 

[rightwinger]

Okay, there's you , me, the parents, etc. but you don't mention the school experts. I posted the journal entries.
Why spend all that money on people that can't see the sun at noonday

Shooting plans​

In his journal, Crumbley planned the shooting, discussed his future in prison, shared a glimpse of his mental health and home life, and detailed other violent tendencies.

Crumbley described what he wanted to do to students at the high school, writing that he would find a pretty girl and shoot her in the back of the head before finding a full classroom.

"I wish to hear the screams of the children as I shoot them," he wrote.

He wrote he would keep shooting people until police arrived then surrender and plead guilty.

Crumbley also repeatedly noted that he would be spending his life in prison.

"I wonder what life in prison will be like," he scrawled along the side of a page that had a list of what he would bring on the day of the shooting. That list included a pistol, extra magazines, Molotov cocktails, a hat, a mask, and more. He also wrote on that page that he would warn some of his close friends not to come to school that day.

==================
This is one value of good parochial schools This boy's soul was diseased.

Did the parents read that journal?

 

[JoeB131]

IDK much about this case, but it seems the parents are catching the raw end of the deal.
This is precedent setting and people are not going to like the results.

Oh, I would.

Their kid was a ticking time bomb they did nothing about.

 

[Vrenn]

If the kid was a danger, why didn’t the school expel him?
The parents were asked to take him home for the day. What would that have solved?
He would just come back the next day

Expelling him would not have done a thing. In fact, it would have provided him with more time and motivation in the school mass murders.

 

[Vrenn]

This is good news

How much time will Biden do for Hunter getting a firearm illegally because Hunter committed a felony for lying on the application to obtain the firearm?

Give it a friggin rest. This ain't about Hunter Biden. Stop trying so hard to lose.