losers - GOP $24 billion, GM $10.9 billion...

[Seawytch]

More far left talking points/propaganda

Yep, Forbes is a leftist publication alright:

Taxpayers Don't Have Government Motors To Kick Around Any More - Forbes

Taxpayers lost $11 billion and you consider that a success?

Compared to the loss if GM had gone under? Yes, by about 20 Billion.

CAR Research Memorandum: The Effect on the U.S. Economy of the Successful Restructuring of General Motors

 

[editec]

The USA should have owed GM and for far less money than we paid to bail it out, too.

FASCIST CAPITALISM is more expensive than real capitalism.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I'm not arguing with your point above, but consider nobody died or were maimed by the purchase of GM Stocks and jobs were created producing durable goods which support an entire industry. War profits profiteers and takes from all of us, especially so the war in Iraq and the war in Vietnam.

money spent on wars and defense goes almost exclusively to american companies and american blue collar union workers. Who do you think builds tanks, planes, ships, ammo, guns, boots, uniforms, armor, humvees? american industry, thats who.

I agree that the recent wars were terrible wastes of money and lives, but to claim that americans do not benefit from defense spending is just a lie.

So the guy who told me earlier today that the government doesn't create jobs is full of shit?

I'll pass that on to him.

The govt can not create jobs. The private industry, taxpayer, funds the govt.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yep, Forbes is a leftist publication alright:

Taxpayers Don't Have Government Motors To Kick Around Any More - Forbes

Taxpayers lost $11 billion and you consider that a success?

Compared to the loss if GM had gone under? Yes, by about 20 Billion.

CAR Research Memorandum: The Effect on the U.S. Economy of the Successful Restructuring of General Motors

It would have been worse otherwise is always the plea from backers of an obviously failed program.
There is no way to know such a thing. An industry group peopled with those whose bread is buttered by GM etc is hardly impartial.
The truth is the profitable lines would have been taken up by a successor company and the dead weight gone. As it is we have two dinosaurs who will not make money going forward and will require subsequent bailouts.
Remember what happened when Packard and Studebacker went out of business? Yeah, nothing.

 

[kaz]

More far left propaganda!

Yes, NYcarbineer doesn't grasp the concept of opportunity cost. The $11 billion government lost would have stayed in the economy and generated taxes as well, without starting in a $11 billion hole.

Come on, you're really not so dumb as to believe ... I guess you are. Let's wonder how much income tax revenue was generated by the taxes paid by those whose jobs were saved, how much in sales taxes were generated by purchases by these employees and those who purchased the car and trucks they produced?

Well, NYCarbineer isn't the only one who doesn't understand what I said.

 

[kaz]

You are so clever handbag, you must have a wonderful Muse.

BTW, you failed to acknowledge the obvious truth of my post and could not offer a counterpoint. Are you really so dumb ... ? Yep, I need not guess, you are!

What you said was "true," but you completely did not grasp my point. Seriously, when I use terms you don't understand, like "opportunity cost," why don't liberals google it? Why do you post showing you didn't get it and didn't learn it? I google every term or idea I didn't know. But then I care about truth.

Opportunity cost here refers to that the money did not come from nowhere. It was taking OUT of the economy where it would have done all the things you mentioned anyway. So the things you mentioned did happen at GM, but that was offset by that they didn't happen where the money was taken from.

And the price we paid was more debt for taxpayers. Companies that invested wisely were punished by competing with taxpayer subsidized cars. That is what you did not grasp. And the handbag did. She actually is a clever handbag, and you're not.

 

[blastoff]

Point of order...

We have to keep in mind that the low information dimocrats know nothing about reorganizing a business under federal bankruptcy laws. Thus their 'leaders' constantly imply - lie - that allowing GM to enter bankruptcy proceedings would have meant shutting the doors, losing all those jobs and whatnot.

The game all along as pointed out by others here was to stick it up the taxpayers' asses and tie the union stooges to a very big quid pro quo due the dims.

 

[Stephanie]

Point of order...

We have to keep in mind that the low information dimocrats know nothing about reorganizing a business under federal bankruptcy laws. Thus their 'leaders' constantly imply - lie - that allowing GM to enter bankruptcy proceedings would have meant shutting the doors, losing all those jobs and whatnot.

The game all along as pointed out by others here was to stick it up the taxpayers' asses and tie the union stooges to a very big quid pro quo due the dims.

the truth.. they swallow anything their elected masters tell them

They say the Tea Party is bad and racist so what do we get? threads here regurgitating the very thing from their sheep..
the citizens and the Democrat base today are hopeless

 

[Dot Com]

who would've bought GM had they gone under? Bain?

Keeping them going was the best choice for this great nation. Cheaper in the long-run too.

 

[Wry Catcher]

money spent on wars and defense goes almost exclusively to american companies and american blue collar union workers. Who do you think builds tanks, planes, ships, ammo, guns, boots, uniforms, armor, humvees? american industry, thats who.

I agree that the recent wars were terrible wastes of money and lives, but to claim that americans do not benefit from defense spending is just a lie.

So the guy who told me earlier today that the government doesn't create jobs is full of shit?

I'll pass that on to him.

The govt can not create jobs. The private industry, taxpayer, funds the govt.

Have you noticed how well the private industry flourishes in Somalia? You might see if not afflicted by myopia the reasons for the failure of the Articles of Confederation. How well would private industry do if the products or services they hoped to market needed to use private roads - some paved, some gravel, some sand, some mud - and each had a toll gate?

No, they didn't do it all by themselves. First a strong central government replaced a weak confederation of states, then: the Gov't first put in the Rail Roads by providing the money and land; next, IKE built the nationwide public highway system; FDR the electrical grid and without these improvements we would still be a rural republic of the banana variety.

 

[The Rabbi]

So the guy who told me earlier today that the government doesn't create jobs is full of shit?

I'll pass that on to him.

The govt can not create jobs. The private industry, taxpayer, funds the govt.

Have you noticed how well the private industry flourishes in Somalia? You might see if not afflicted by myopia the reasons for the failure of the Articles of Confederation. How well would private industry do if the products or services they hoped to market needed to use private roads - some paved, some gravel, some sand, some mud - and each had a toll gate?

No, they didn't do it all by themselves. First a strong central government replaced a weak confederation of states, then: the Gov't first put in the Rail Roads by providing the money and land; next, IKE built the nationwide public highway system; FDR the electrical grid and without these improvements we would still be a rural republic of the banana variety.

Because prior to FDR and Ike this country was a stagnant backwater, right?
Your boldness in posting utter crap without any self consciousness is really inspring. I think I'll go vomit.

 

[Dot Com]

So the guy who told me earlier today that the government doesn't create jobs is full of shit?

I'll pass that on to him.

The govt can not create jobs. The private industry, taxpayer, funds the govt.

Have you noticed how well the private industry flourishes in Somalia? You might see if not afflicted by myopia the reasons for the failure of the Articles of Confederation. How well would private industry do if the products or services they hoped to market needed to use private roads - some paved, some gravel, some sand, some mud - and each had a toll gate?

No, they didn't do it all by themselves. First a strong central government replaced a weak confederation of states, then: the Gov't first put in the Rail Roads by providing the money and land; next, IKE built the nationwide public highway system; FDR the electrical grid and without these improvements we would still be a rural republic of the banana variety.

but, but, that goes against what SeanRush is telling them!!!

As to the OP, rw'ers can spin it any way they want but when a Repub blows TRILLIONS UPON TRILLIONS $$$ overseas w/ no apparent benifit, its ok but when a Dem spends a few BILLION $ on Americans in our own country no less, its just wrong

 

[Redfish]

I'm not arguing with your point above, but consider nobody died or were maimed by the purchase of GM Stocks and jobs were created producing durable goods which support an entire industry. War profits profiteers and takes from all of us, especially so the war in Iraq and the war in Vietnam.

money spent on wars and defense goes almost exclusively to american companies and american blue collar union workers. Who do you think builds tanks, planes, ships, ammo, guns, boots, uniforms, armor, humvees? american industry, thats who.

I agree that the recent wars were terrible wastes of money and lives, but to claim that americans do not benefit from defense spending is just a lie.

So the guy who told me earlier today that the government doesn't create jobs is full of shit?

I'll pass that on to him.

military spending does create jobs, national defense is one of the roles of the federal government.

Are you now saying that the government spends our money efficiently on defense? or that defense spending is a good thing since it creates jobs?

I thought you guys on the left hated DOD.

 

[Redfish]

who would've bought GM had they gone under? Bain?

Keeping them going was the best choice for this great nation. Cheaper in the long-run too.

They would have been broken up into smaller more efficient companies----we might have had a GMC truck company, a chevy company, and a buick/cadillac company.

There would have been plenty of investors lining up to buy into those new companies.

you just don't get it-------the GM bailout had nothing to do with saving the company or saving jobs--------it was done to save the UAW and to keep its money flowing to the DNC.

 

[Redfish]

The govt can not create jobs. The private industry, taxpayer, funds the govt.

Have you noticed how well the private industry flourishes in Somalia? You might see if not afflicted by myopia the reasons for the failure of the Articles of Confederation. How well would private industry do if the products or services they hoped to market needed to use private roads - some paved, some gravel, some sand, some mud - and each had a toll gate?

No, they didn't do it all by themselves. First a strong central government replaced a weak confederation of states, then: the Gov't first put in the Rail Roads by providing the money and land; next, IKE built the nationwide public highway system; FDR the electrical grid and without these improvements we would still be a rural republic of the banana variety.

but, but, that goes against what SeanRush is telling them!!!

As to the OP, rw'ers can spin it any way they want but when a Repub blows TRILLIONS UPON TRILLIONS $$$ overseas w/ no apparent benifit, its ok but when a Dem spends a few BILLION $ on Americans in our own country its just wrong

the trillions wasted on stupid foreign wars and stupid foreign aid was authorized and funded by both parties------to claim that only republicans funded that lunacy is just plain stupid.

 

[Redfish]

Yep, Forbes is a leftist publication alright:

Taxpayers Don't Have Government Motors To Kick Around Any More - Forbes

Taxpayers lost $11 billion and you consider that a success?

Compared to the loss if GM had gone under? Yes, by about 20 Billion.

CAR Research Memorandum: The Effect on the U.S. Economy of the Successful Restructuring of General Motors

neither you or the guy who wrote that idiotic article under stand how a corporate bankrupcy works. GM would not have "gone under".

If you don't understand the basics being discussed, its better for you to stay out of the discussion.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You are so clever handbag, you must have a wonderful Muse.

BTW, you failed to acknowledge the obvious truth of my post and could not offer a counterpoint. Are you really so dumb ... ? Yep, I need not guess, you are!

What you said was "true," but you completely did not grasp my point. Seriously, when I use terms you don't understand, like "opportunity cost," why don't liberals google it? Why do you post showing you didn't get it and didn't learn it? I google every term or idea I didn't know. But then I care about truth.

Opportunity cost here refers to that the money did not come from nowhere. It was taking OUT of the economy where it would have done all the things you mentioned anyway. So the things you mentioned did happen at GM, but that was offset by that they didn't happen where the money was taken from.

And the price we paid was more debt for taxpayers. Companies that invested wisely were punished by competing with taxpayer subsidized cars. That is what you did not grasp. And the handbag did. She actually is a clever handbag, and you're not.

Nice try. What would be the result if GM had failed? Or under restructuring, what might have been the outcome? Lower wages, less benefits, an inferior product, hence less sales, a falling stock? Or do some think restructuring wouldn't create industry havoc?

Coming to conclusions and making policy which must fit within an ideology is what go us into the economic mess known as the Great Recession. Refusing to 'bail out" GM and Chrysler based on an ideology would have been foolish and catastrophic to the families of GM & Chrysler Employees, their suppliers and the sales force around the country. In the middle of massive layoffs how many more would have lost their jobs?

 

[Dot Com]

Have you noticed how well the private industry flourishes in Somalia? You might see if not afflicted by myopia the reasons for the failure of the Articles of Confederation. How well would private industry do if the products or services they hoped to market needed to use private roads - some paved, some gravel, some sand, some mud - and each had a toll gate?

No, they didn't do it all by themselves. First a strong central government replaced a weak confederation of states, then: the Gov't first put in the Rail Roads by providing the money and land; next, IKE built the nationwide public highway system; FDR the electrical grid and without these improvements we would still be a rural republic of the banana variety.

but, but, that goes against what SeanRush is telling them!!!

As to the OP, rw'ers can spin it any way they want but when a Repub blows TRILLIONS UPON TRILLIONS $$$ overseas w/ no apparent benifit, its ok but when a Dem spends a few BILLION $ on Americans in our own country its just wrong

the trillions wasted on stupid foreign wars and stupid foreign aid was authorized and funded by both parties------to claim that only republicans funded that lunacy is just plain stupid.

...at the time given the information they were given vetted by the Bush Admin. You conveniently left that part out.

Question: do you know who Doug Feith is, what his job description was during Iraq/what he did for the Bush II admin during Iraq.

 

[Redfish]

but, but, that goes against what SeanRush is telling them!!!

As to the OP, rw'ers can spin it any way they want but when a Repub blows TRILLIONS UPON TRILLIONS $$$ overseas w/ no apparent benifit, its ok but when a Dem spends a few BILLION $ on Americans in our own country its just wrong

the trillions wasted on stupid foreign wars and stupid foreign aid was authorized and funded by both parties------to claim that only republicans funded that lunacy is just plain stupid.

...at the time given the information they were given vetted by the Bush Admin. You conveniently left that part out.

Question: do you know who Doug Feith is, what his job description was during Iraq/what he did for the Bush II admin during Iraq.

It is true that the intel was flawed, but everyone bought into it, Bush, Clinton, Kerry, Gore, The UN, the UK, France, Germany, Spain, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Turkey, Israel. Everyone was convinced by Saddam that he had WMDs and was ready to use them. Bush did not cook the books on the intel. Everyone in congress had the same intel and came to the same erroneous conclusions. Nothing was hidden by Bush, Feith, or anyone else.

your tired lies and talking points are failing once again.

 

[auditor0007]

The economy grew well over 3% last quarter. So remind me how the shutdown cost anything.
More lies and talking points from desperate leftists.
But thanks for pointing out that the taxpayer took it in the ass from "saving" GM. The only defense is the usual "it would have been worse otherwise."

Despite the small loss from the GM bailout, the long term implications will lead to much greater tax revenue than the little that was lost. GM is now strong and thriving due to the bailout. That means tax revenue is coming in that would have been lost had GM failed. I really have to laugh when you guys cry over $10 billion or so that helped save an entire American industry but have no problem with us spending close to $1 trillion per year on defense and related spending.