Jesus Was A Capitalist

[PoliticalChic]

are you saying that the bible never condoned abortion?

I don't remember anywhere in the bible there being a discussion
of legal abortion

The Bible does not support that idea. Read Psalm 139. Science does not support that idea either.

For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.[a]
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.

the OT is not part of the bible?

The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephaha]">[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curseb]">[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

Cut to the chase: am I correct that Jesus's message was capitalist, freedom-based, and not based on the force and coercion of socialism?
Which is it, redistribution or generosity?
Free will or under threat of punishment???

Jesus was a Pharisee. He advocated the written (that which he considered
"REVEALED" ) law which included lots of provisions for "DA POOR". The
provisions included RIGHTS to the "edges of the field" ---dat means you can go
to cultivated land and EAT THERE from the produce of designated parts of the
field and he advocated buying and selling (at least he never made any comment
as reported in the NT that refuted the idea) and he supported voluntary charity.
He did not like Roman intervention which interfered with the jurisprudence of
Judea. Try reading the book

You should both read more carefully, and pay better attention to what you read.

I posted this, earlier:

The faith is Judeo-Christian….not two separate faiths.

The Old Testament laws remain in effect…as per Matthew 5:18 is the eighteenth verse of the fifth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament and is part of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus has just reported that he came not to destroy the law, but fulfil it. In this verse this claim is reinforced.

Matthew 5:17–18 is a key text for interpreting the Sermon on the Mount and the entire gospel of Matthew:

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Here Jesus says that not one iota (jot) or dot (tittle) will pass away from the law. These most likely refer to the smallest strokes of the Hebrew alphabet, indicating that the Old Testament is completely trustworthy, even to the smallest detail. This is consistent with Jesus’ attitude elsewhere. Never do we find Jesus disagreeing with Scripture.



And as for your note about allowing the poor to eat if they worked....absolutely correct.

Every seventh year, all consumer debts are to be abolished (Deuteronomy 15:1-2). Today, debt is one of the primary causes of bankruptcy and entrenched poverty.


[The plan is followed under most bankruptcy laws..." Each state has its own statute of limitations on how long different types of debt can be collected by suing after initial default before being considered time-barred. This period is typically 3-6 years but a few states such as Kentucky allow much longer time periods (up to 15 years). Declare Bankruptcy or Just Wait Seven Years?]


Ungleaned fields are left for the poor (Leviticus 19:10). Wealthy people are not to harvest every last bit of their crops—and poor people are required to work to collect their food." Is God a Socialist?




So....in the Bible we do not find support for communism, nor socialism....but rules that "preserve private incentive. No need for government-enforced wealth redistribution. No need for bureaucrats to decide how much wealth is one’s “fair share.” Ibid.

 

[irosie91]

I don't remember anywhere in the bible there being a discussion
of legal abortion

The Bible does not support that idea. Read Psalm 139. Science does not support that idea either.

For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.[a]
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.

the OT is not part of the bible?

The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephaha]">[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curseb]">[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

Cut to the chase: am I correct that Jesus's message was capitalist, freedom-based, and not based on the force and coercion of socialism?
Which is it, redistribution or generosity?
Free will or under threat of punishment???

Jesus was a Pharisee. He advocated the written (that which he considered
"REVEALED" ) law which included lots of provisions for "DA POOR". The
provisions included RIGHTS to the "edges of the field" ---dat means you can go
to cultivated land and EAT THERE from the produce of designated parts of the
field and he advocated buying and selling (at least he never made any comment
as reported in the NT that refuted the idea) and he supported voluntary charity.
He did not like Roman intervention which interfered with the jurisprudence of
Judea. Try reading the book

You should both read more carefully, and pay better attention to what you read.

I posted this, earlier:

The faith is Judeo-Christian….not two separate faiths.

The Old Testament laws remain in effect…as per Matthew 5:18 is the eighteenth verse of the fifth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament and is part of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus has just reported that he came not to destroy the law, but fulfil it. In this verse this claim is reinforced.

Matthew 5:17–18 is a key text for interpreting the Sermon on the Mount and the entire gospel of Matthew:

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Here Jesus says that not one iota (jot) or dot (tittle) will pass away from the law. These most likely refer to the smallest strokes of the Hebrew alphabet, indicating that the Old Testament is completely trustworthy, even to the smallest detail. This is consistent with Jesus’ attitude elsewhere. Never do we find Jesus disagreeing with Scripture.



And as for your note about allowing the poor to eat if they worked....absolutely correct.

Every seventh year, all consumer debts are to be abolished (Deuteronomy 15:1-2). Today, debt is one of the primary causes of bankruptcy and entrenched poverty.


[The plan is followed under most bankruptcy laws..." Each state has its own statute of limitations on how long different types of debt can be collected by suing after initial default before being considered time-barred. This period is typically 3-6 years but a few states such as Kentucky allow much longer time periods (up to 15 years). Declare Bankruptcy or Just Wait Seven Years?]


Ungleaned fields are left for the poor (Leviticus 19:10). Wealthy people are not to harvest every last bit of their crops—and poor people are required to work to collect their food." Is God a Socialist?




So....in the Bible we do not find support for communism, nor socialism....but rules that "preserve private incentive. No need for government-enforced wealth redistribution. No need for bureaucrats to decide how much wealth is one’s “fair share.” Ibid.

almost right-----the "gleaners law" ----as Christians express it---DOES NOT REQUIRE working for the benefit of the landholder----it is there for the taking.
You might consider picking the stuff up----"WORK" ??? Nope----it is forage.
ALSO parts of the field are available even outside of the harvest days for foragers. THAT IS THE SOCIALIST PART. Charity in jewish law is not
forced EXCEPT BY SOCIAL CUSTOM-----(pirkei avot----a minhag is stronger
than a din) Charity is ALSO a biggie for social prestige----even back then.
SHEEEEEESH -----you have never met a jew or been in a synagogue?

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Bible does not support that idea. Read Psalm 139. Science does not support that idea either.

For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.[a]
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.

the OT is not part of the bible?

The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephaha]">[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curseb]">[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

Cut to the chase: am I correct that Jesus's message was capitalist, freedom-based, and not based on the force and coercion of socialism?
Which is it, redistribution or generosity?
Free will or under threat of punishment???

Jesus was a Pharisee. He advocated the written (that which he considered
"REVEALED" ) law which included lots of provisions for "DA POOR". The
provisions included RIGHTS to the "edges of the field" ---dat means you can go
to cultivated land and EAT THERE from the produce of designated parts of the
field and he advocated buying and selling (at least he never made any comment
as reported in the NT that refuted the idea) and he supported voluntary charity.
He did not like Roman intervention which interfered with the jurisprudence of
Judea. Try reading the book

You should both read more carefully, and pay better attention to what you read.

I posted this, earlier:

The faith is Judeo-Christian….not two separate faiths.

The Old Testament laws remain in effect…as per Matthew 5:18 is the eighteenth verse of the fifth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament and is part of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus has just reported that he came not to destroy the law, but fulfil it. In this verse this claim is reinforced.

Matthew 5:17–18 is a key text for interpreting the Sermon on the Mount and the entire gospel of Matthew:

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Here Jesus says that not one iota (jot) or dot (tittle) will pass away from the law. These most likely refer to the smallest strokes of the Hebrew alphabet, indicating that the Old Testament is completely trustworthy, even to the smallest detail. This is consistent with Jesus’ attitude elsewhere. Never do we find Jesus disagreeing with Scripture.



And as for your note about allowing the poor to eat if they worked....absolutely correct.

Every seventh year, all consumer debts are to be abolished (Deuteronomy 15:1-2). Today, debt is one of the primary causes of bankruptcy and entrenched poverty.


[The plan is followed under most bankruptcy laws..." Each state has its own statute of limitations on how long different types of debt can be collected by suing after initial default before being considered time-barred. This period is typically 3-6 years but a few states such as Kentucky allow much longer time periods (up to 15 years). Declare Bankruptcy or Just Wait Seven Years?]


Ungleaned fields are left for the poor (Leviticus 19:10). Wealthy people are not to harvest every last bit of their crops—and poor people are required to work to collect their food." Is God a Socialist?




So....in the Bible we do not find support for communism, nor socialism....but rules that "preserve private incentive. No need for government-enforced wealth redistribution. No need for bureaucrats to decide how much wealth is one’s “fair share.” Ibid.

almost right-----the "gleaners law" ----as Christians express it---DOES NOT REQUIRE working for the benefit of the landholder----it is there for the taking.
You might consider picking the stuff up----"WORK" ??? Nope----it is forage.
ALSO parts of the field are available even outside of the harvest days for foragers. THAT IS THE SOCIALIST PART. Charity in jewish law is not
forced EXCEPT BY SOCIAL CUSTOM-----(pirkei avot----a minhag is stronger
than a din) Charity is ALSO a biggie for social prestige----even back then.
SHEEEEEESH -----you have never met a jew or been in a synagogue?

"almost right-----the "gleaners law" ----as Christians express it---DOES NOT REQUIRE working for the benefit of the landholder----it is there for the taking."

Wrong.....I am perfectly right.

What the heck is wrong with you???

Exactly what I wrote.

 

[playtime]

View attachment 309613Jesus will remember who had abortions, and who allowed abortions, and who tried to stop abortions...

are you saying that the bible never condoned abortion?

I don't remember anywhere in the bible there being a discussion
of legal abortion

The Bible does not support that idea. Read Psalm 139. Science does not support that idea either.

For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.[a]
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.

the OT is not part of the bible?

The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephaha]">[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curseb]">[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

Cut to the chase: am I correct that Jesus's message was capitalist, freedom-based, and not based on the force and coercion of socialism?
Which is it, redistribution or generosity?
Free will or under threat of punishment???

no you aren't correct. jesus wasn't a capitalist. do you know if he owned his own carpentry business? why did he heal without taking a payment?

i see you didn't answer about the OT being a very lively part of the bible & that you totally stepped over the undeniable proof that the bible had no problems with abortion as long as it was of he man's choosing.

 

[irosie91]

the OT is not part of the bible?

The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephaha]">[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curseb]">[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

Cut to the chase: am I correct that Jesus's message was capitalist, freedom-based, and not based on the force and coercion of socialism?
Which is it, redistribution or generosity?
Free will or under threat of punishment???

Jesus was a Pharisee. He advocated the written (that which he considered
"REVEALED" ) law which included lots of provisions for "DA POOR". The
provisions included RIGHTS to the "edges of the field" ---dat means you can go
to cultivated land and EAT THERE from the produce of designated parts of the
field and he advocated buying and selling (at least he never made any comment
as reported in the NT that refuted the idea) and he supported voluntary charity.
He did not like Roman intervention which interfered with the jurisprudence of
Judea. Try reading the book

You should both read more carefully, and pay better attention to what you read.

I posted this, earlier:

The faith is Judeo-Christian….not two separate faiths.

The Old Testament laws remain in effect…as per Matthew 5:18 is the eighteenth verse of the fifth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament and is part of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus has just reported that he came not to destroy the law, but fulfil it. In this verse this claim is reinforced.

Matthew 5:17–18 is a key text for interpreting the Sermon on the Mount and the entire gospel of Matthew:

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Here Jesus says that not one iota (jot) or dot (tittle) will pass away from the law. These most likely refer to the smallest strokes of the Hebrew alphabet, indicating that the Old Testament is completely trustworthy, even to the smallest detail. This is consistent with Jesus’ attitude elsewhere. Never do we find Jesus disagreeing with Scripture.



And as for your note about allowing the poor to eat if they worked....absolutely correct.

Every seventh year, all consumer debts are to be abolished (Deuteronomy 15:1-2). Today, debt is one of the primary causes of bankruptcy and entrenched poverty.


[The plan is followed under most bankruptcy laws..." Each state has its own statute of limitations on how long different types of debt can be collected by suing after initial default before being considered time-barred. This period is typically 3-6 years but a few states such as Kentucky allow much longer time periods (up to 15 years). Declare Bankruptcy or Just Wait Seven Years?]


Ungleaned fields are left for the poor (Leviticus 19:10). Wealthy people are not to harvest every last bit of their crops—and poor people are required to work to collect their food." Is God a Socialist?




So....in the Bible we do not find support for communism, nor socialism....but rules that "preserve private incentive. No need for government-enforced wealth redistribution. No need for bureaucrats to decide how much wealth is one’s “fair share.” Ibid.

almost right-----the "gleaners law" ----as Christians express it---DOES NOT REQUIRE working for the benefit of the landholder----it is there for the taking.
You might consider picking the stuff up----"WORK" ??? Nope----it is forage.
ALSO parts of the field are available even outside of the harvest days for foragers. THAT IS THE SOCIALIST PART. Charity in jewish law is not
forced EXCEPT BY SOCIAL CUSTOM-----(pirkei avot----a minhag is stronger
than a din) Charity is ALSO a biggie for social prestige----even back then.
SHEEEEEESH -----you have never met a jew or been in a synagogue?

"almost right-----the "gleaners law" ----as Christians express it---DOES NOT REQUIRE working for the benefit of the landholder----it is there for the taking."

Wrong.....I am perfectly right.

What the heck is wrong with you???

Exactly what I wrote.

ok what sort of "work" did the people who walked OVER A HARVESTED FIELDs
and picked up the left overs do for the landowner "CLEAN UP DETAIL"?----
--it was not only legal foraging-----but REQUIRED TO BE ALLOWED BY LAW AND
CUSTOM------you are wrong. You got the recipe for the abortifacient used
by the Sanhedrin ? It was a trick------a kind of public, albeit----actually
harmless ordeal thing------more a "threat" than a reality. Not only was it
a theoretical ordeal for the woman-----the man got really humiliated by it

 

[irosie91]

are you saying that the bible never condoned abortion?

I don't remember anywhere in the bible there being a discussion
of legal abortion

The Bible does not support that idea. Read Psalm 139. Science does not support that idea either.

For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.[a]
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.

the OT is not part of the bible?

The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephaha]">[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curseb]">[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

Cut to the chase: am I correct that Jesus's message was capitalist, freedom-based, and not based on the force and coercion of socialism?
Which is it, redistribution or generosity?
Free will or under threat of punishment???

no you aren't correct. jesus wasn't a capitalist. do you know if he owned his own carpentry business? why did he heal without taking a payment?

i see you didn't answer about the OT being a very lively part of the bible & that you totally stepped over the undeniable proof that the bible had no problems with abortion as long as it was of he man's choosing.

absolutely UNTRUE. Abortion was actually to be avoided at all costs
except risk to the mother's life. Try not to discuss things about which
you are totally ignorant. Do you know why jews are not permitted to throw
fingernail parings on the ground?

 

[playtime]

View attachment 309613Jesus will remember who had abortions, and who allowed abortions, and who tried to stop abortions...

are you saying that the bible never condoned abortion?

I don't remember anywhere in the bible there being a discussion
of legal abortion

it's in the OT.

numbers 5: 11-31 is all about a husband bringing his wife to a priest... if his wife is even suspected of infidelity ... to consume a concoction that a priest will concoct to bring on a miscarriage; to give her 'the curse'. ever hear that expression ' i got the curse'? that's an expression (however antiquated) means when a female gets her period; & in the bible, it meant to bring on a miscarriage by bleeding.

that is a biblical phrase.

yeah? so? that is not an elective abortion-----it is just a trick

it's was certainly elective on the part of the husband who wasn't the pregnant (or suspected pregnant) one.

& there is no difference between forcing a woman to abort or forcing her to carry to term.

 

[playtime]

I don't remember anywhere in the bible there being a discussion
of legal abortion

The Bible does not support that idea. Read Psalm 139. Science does not support that idea either.

For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.[a]
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.

the OT is not part of the bible?

The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephaha]">[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curseb]">[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

Cut to the chase: am I correct that Jesus's message was capitalist, freedom-based, and not based on the force and coercion of socialism?
Which is it, redistribution or generosity?
Free will or under threat of punishment???

no you aren't correct. jesus wasn't a capitalist. do you know if he owned his own carpentry business? why did he heal without taking a payment?

i see you didn't answer about the OT being a very lively part of the bible & that you totally stepped over the undeniable proof that the bible had no problems with abortion as long as it was of he man's choosing.

absolutely UNTRUE. Abortion was actually to be avoided at all costs
except risk to the mother's life. Try not to discuss things about which
you are totally ignorant. Do you know why jews are not permitted to throw
fingernail parings on the ground?

lol.... the biblical passage says otherwise. i don't care why jews aren't permitted to throw fingernail parings on the ground anymore than why god wanted the males circumcised.

 

[ChemEngineer]

Ungleaned fields are left for the poor (Leviticus 19:10). Wealthy people are not to harvest every last bit of their crops—and poor people are required to work to collect their food." Is God a Socialist?

.

Who does not work should not eat. This runs contrary to Leftist dogma. They will of course bring up people who cannot work, which nobody demands to do what they cannot do. But Leftists are always dishonest. Mendacity is their métier, along with pride.

 

[PoliticalChic]

are you saying that the bible never condoned abortion?

I don't remember anywhere in the bible there being a discussion
of legal abortion

The Bible does not support that idea. Read Psalm 139. Science does not support that idea either.

For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother's womb.
14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.[a]
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.

the OT is not part of the bible?

The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephaha]">[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curseb]">[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

Cut to the chase: am I correct that Jesus's message was capitalist, freedom-based, and not based on the force and coercion of socialism?
Which is it, redistribution or generosity?
Free will or under threat of punishment???

no you aren't correct. jesus wasn't a capitalist. do you know if he owned his own carpentry business? why did he heal without taking a payment?

i see you didn't answer about the OT being a very lively part of the bible & that you totally stepped over the undeniable proof that the bible had no problems with abortion as long as it was of he man's choosing.

"no you aren't correct. jesus wasn't a capitalist."


Let's check.


"Master," the man says to Jesus, "tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me." Jesus replies, "Man, who made me a judge or divider over you?" and then he rebukes the man for being envious of his sibling.” Was Jesus a Socialist?


Jesus gives evidence in Luke: 13Someone in the crowd said to Him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.” 14But Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed Me judge or executor between you?”

15And He said to them, “Watch out! Guard yourselves against every form of greed, for one’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”…


But Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed Me judge or executor between you?”

If Jesus says He shouldn't appropriate the power to make such decisions for the individual.….how can government?




6. Who, or what, then, should be responsible for exactly how and when one’s earnings should be dispensed….or, if you’d rather use the term, ‘re-distributed’?

The answer redounds to the ideas of our Founders, and of conservatives today: the individual makes that decision, not the government, i.e., the ‘collective’ which has no such rights….at least not according to Jesus.



Conservativism: individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.



The choices at issue are whether Jesus would support capitalism or socialism....and the evidence above clearly indicates capitalism.


Seems I was correct.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Cut to the chase: am I correct that Jesus's message was capitalist, freedom-based, and not based on the force and coercion of socialism?
Which is it, redistribution or generosity?
Free will or under threat of punishment???

Jesus was a Pharisee. He advocated the written (that which he considered
"REVEALED" ) law which included lots of provisions for "DA POOR". The
provisions included RIGHTS to the "edges of the field" ---dat means you can go
to cultivated land and EAT THERE from the produce of designated parts of the
field and he advocated buying and selling (at least he never made any comment
as reported in the NT that refuted the idea) and he supported voluntary charity.
He did not like Roman intervention which interfered with the jurisprudence of
Judea. Try reading the book

You should both read more carefully, and pay better attention to what you read.

I posted this, earlier:

The faith is Judeo-Christian….not two separate faiths.

The Old Testament laws remain in effect…as per Matthew 5:18 is the eighteenth verse of the fifth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament and is part of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus has just reported that he came not to destroy the law, but fulfil it. In this verse this claim is reinforced.

Matthew 5:17–18 is a key text for interpreting the Sermon on the Mount and the entire gospel of Matthew:

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Here Jesus says that not one iota (jot) or dot (tittle) will pass away from the law. These most likely refer to the smallest strokes of the Hebrew alphabet, indicating that the Old Testament is completely trustworthy, even to the smallest detail. This is consistent with Jesus’ attitude elsewhere. Never do we find Jesus disagreeing with Scripture.



And as for your note about allowing the poor to eat if they worked....absolutely correct.

Every seventh year, all consumer debts are to be abolished (Deuteronomy 15:1-2). Today, debt is one of the primary causes of bankruptcy and entrenched poverty.


[The plan is followed under most bankruptcy laws..." Each state has its own statute of limitations on how long different types of debt can be collected by suing after initial default before being considered time-barred. This period is typically 3-6 years but a few states such as Kentucky allow much longer time periods (up to 15 years). Declare Bankruptcy or Just Wait Seven Years?]


Ungleaned fields are left for the poor (Leviticus 19:10). Wealthy people are not to harvest every last bit of their crops—and poor people are required to work to collect their food." Is God a Socialist?




So....in the Bible we do not find support for communism, nor socialism....but rules that "preserve private incentive. No need for government-enforced wealth redistribution. No need for bureaucrats to decide how much wealth is one’s “fair share.” Ibid.

almost right-----the "gleaners law" ----as Christians express it---DOES NOT REQUIRE working for the benefit of the landholder----it is there for the taking.
You might consider picking the stuff up----"WORK" ??? Nope----it is forage.
ALSO parts of the field are available even outside of the harvest days for foragers. THAT IS THE SOCIALIST PART. Charity in jewish law is not
forced EXCEPT BY SOCIAL CUSTOM-----(pirkei avot----a minhag is stronger
than a din) Charity is ALSO a biggie for social prestige----even back then.
SHEEEEEESH -----you have never met a jew or been in a synagogue?

"almost right-----the "gleaners law" ----as Christians express it---DOES NOT REQUIRE working for the benefit of the landholder----it is there for the taking."

Wrong.....I am perfectly right.

What the heck is wrong with you???

Exactly what I wrote.

ok what sort of "work" did the people who walked OVER A HARVESTED FIELDs
and picked up the left overs do for the landowner "CLEAN UP DETAIL"?----
--it was not only legal foraging-----but REQUIRED TO BE ALLOWED BY LAW AND
CUSTOM------you are wrong. You got the recipe for the abortifacient used
by the Sanhedrin ? It was a trick------a kind of public, albeit----actually
harmless ordeal thing------more a "threat" than a reality. Not only was it
a theoretical ordeal for the woman-----the man got really humiliated by it

You wrote:
"almost right-----the "gleaners law" ----as Christians express it---DOES NOT REQUIRE working for the benefit of the landholder----it is there for the taking."

I wrote:
Ungleaned fields are left for the poor (Leviticus 19:10). Wealthy people are not to harvest every last bit of their crops—and poor people are required to work to collect their food." Is God a Socialist?


No where does that say it is for the benefit of any but the poor.


Work on your comprehension.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Ungleaned fields are left for the poor (Leviticus 19:10). Wealthy people are not to harvest every last bit of their crops—and poor people are required to work to collect their food." Is God a Socialist?

.

Who does not work should not eat. This runs contrary to Leftist dogma. They will of course bring up people who cannot work, which nobody demands to do what they cannot do. But Leftists are always dishonest. Mendacity is their métier, along with pride.

In 2 Thessalonians 3:10, Paul said, “If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat”...

..... and one is led, ineluctably, away from socialism, and toward the greatest economic advance in the history of mankind:

capitalism.

 

[irosie91]

View attachment 309613Jesus will remember who had abortions, and who allowed abortions, and who tried to stop abortions...

are you saying that the bible never condoned abortion?

I don't remember anywhere in the bible there being a discussion
of legal abortion

it's in the OT.

numbers 5: 11-31 is all about a husband bringing his wife to a priest... if his wife is even suspected of infidelity ... to consume a concoction that a priest will concoct to bring on a miscarriage; to give her 'the curse'. ever hear that expression ' i got the curse'? that's an expression (however antiquated) means when a female gets her period; & in the bible, it meant to bring on a miscarriage by bleeding.

that is a biblical phrase.

yeah? so? that is not an elective abortion-----it is just a trick

it's was certainly elective on the part of the husband who wasn't the pregnant (or suspected pregnant) one.

& there is no difference between forcing a woman to abort or forcing her to carry to term.

you remain confused-----the purpose of the ordeal was not abortion----the stuff
she drank ----THEORETICALLY ---would kill her. As far as I know-------
this ordeal thing never happened, it was a threat to BOTH husband and wife.
If the POISON did not work------the man was UTTERLY HUMILIATED and could
not even consider divorcing his wife for DA REST OF HIS LIFE. Try to cope
with reality. Abortion was never sanctioned in torah law. Today ------the PHARISEE interpretation prevails in Israel-------abortion to save the life of the
mother IS ALLOWED. If a woman wants an abortion she just CLAIMS----
"if I have another kid, I will kill myself" The man can hang around
holding a pistol to his head-------that strategy would not work

 

[Andylusion]

Don't you just love it when the atheistic Militant Secularist suddenly appeal to religion?

So the Mail Order Bride from Hell has it right and the Pope has it wrong?

I don't believe in the Pope. I believe in Jesus.

 

[irosie91]

Jesus was a Pharisee. He advocated the written (that which he considered
"REVEALED" ) law which included lots of provisions for "DA POOR". The
provisions included RIGHTS to the "edges of the field" ---dat means you can go
to cultivated land and EAT THERE from the produce of designated parts of the
field and he advocated buying and selling (at least he never made any comment
as reported in the NT that refuted the idea) and he supported voluntary charity.
He did not like Roman intervention which interfered with the jurisprudence of
Judea. Try reading the book

You should both read more carefully, and pay better attention to what you read.

I posted this, earlier:

The faith is Judeo-Christian….not two separate faiths.

The Old Testament laws remain in effect…as per Matthew 5:18 is the eighteenth verse of the fifth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament and is part of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus has just reported that he came not to destroy the law, but fulfil it. In this verse this claim is reinforced.

Matthew 5:17–18 is a key text for interpreting the Sermon on the Mount and the entire gospel of Matthew:

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Here Jesus says that not one iota (jot) or dot (tittle) will pass away from the law. These most likely refer to the smallest strokes of the Hebrew alphabet, indicating that the Old Testament is completely trustworthy, even to the smallest detail. This is consistent with Jesus’ attitude elsewhere. Never do we find Jesus disagreeing with Scripture.



And as for your note about allowing the poor to eat if they worked....absolutely correct.

Every seventh year, all consumer debts are to be abolished (Deuteronomy 15:1-2). Today, debt is one of the primary causes of bankruptcy and entrenched poverty.


[The plan is followed under most bankruptcy laws..." Each state has its own statute of limitations on how long different types of debt can be collected by suing after initial default before being considered time-barred. This period is typically 3-6 years but a few states such as Kentucky allow much longer time periods (up to 15 years). Declare Bankruptcy or Just Wait Seven Years?]


Ungleaned fields are left for the poor (Leviticus 19:10). Wealthy people are not to harvest every last bit of their crops—and poor people are required to work to collect their food." Is God a Socialist?




So....in the Bible we do not find support for communism, nor socialism....but rules that "preserve private incentive. No need for government-enforced wealth redistribution. No need for bureaucrats to decide how much wealth is one’s “fair share.” Ibid.

almost right-----the "gleaners law" ----as Christians express it---DOES NOT REQUIRE working for the benefit of the landholder----it is there for the taking.
You might consider picking the stuff up----"WORK" ??? Nope----it is forage.
ALSO parts of the field are available even outside of the harvest days for foragers. THAT IS THE SOCIALIST PART. Charity in jewish law is not
forced EXCEPT BY SOCIAL CUSTOM-----(pirkei avot----a minhag is stronger
than a din) Charity is ALSO a biggie for social prestige----even back then.
SHEEEEEESH -----you have never met a jew or been in a synagogue?

"almost right-----the "gleaners law" ----as Christians express it---DOES NOT REQUIRE working for the benefit of the landholder----it is there for the taking."

Wrong.....I am perfectly right.

What the heck is wrong with you???

Exactly what I wrote.

ok what sort of "work" did the people who walked OVER A HARVESTED FIELDs
and picked up the left overs do for the landowner "CLEAN UP DETAIL"?----
--it was not only legal foraging-----but REQUIRED TO BE ALLOWED BY LAW AND
CUSTOM------you are wrong. You got the recipe for the abortifacient used
by the Sanhedrin ? It was a trick------a kind of public, albeit----actually
harmless ordeal thing------more a "threat" than a reality. Not only was it
a theoretical ordeal for the woman-----the man got really humiliated by it

You wrote:
"almost right-----the "gleaners law" ----as Christians express it---DOES NOT REQUIRE working for the benefit of the landholder----it is there for the taking."

I wrote:
Ungleaned fields are left for the poor (Leviticus 19:10). Wealthy people are not to harvest every last bit of their crops—and poor people are required to work to collect their food." Is God a Socialist?


No where does that say it is for the benefit of any but the poor.


Work on your comprehension.

my comprehension is fine------you are considering foraging on someone elses
crop to be "WORK" ---------and you accuse me of limited comprehension?
I AM DELIGHTED--------I am taking a trip to apple country (in the fall) -----to
FORAGE AND CALL IT "WORK" ------more news--------even in the USA that is
called "theft"

 

[irosie91]

btw-----in the SOVIET UNION-----foragers in planted fields were sent
to siberia

 

[irosie91]

Don't you just love it when the atheistic Militant Secularist suddenly appeal to religion?

So the Mail Order Bride from Hell has it right and the Pope has it wrong?

I don't believe in the Pope. I believe in Jesus.

what does "believe in Jesus" mean?

 

[Andylusion]

Jesus would not be a Capitalist or a Marxist and would be very upset that his teachings have been twisted for Political gain from any side...

Jesus was above politics and his teachings should be taken to heart but alas so many are blind why do I preach...

I'm gonna prove quite the opposite......stay with the thread.

No, you are going to prove Mac correct because Jesus did not care about your wealth or status but about your soul.

Why must radicals twist his teachings to fit their agenda.

As you wrote it is generosity that is the answer but remember hogging your money and saying mine is no better than a man who does not work and wishes to take society for granted...

Remember Greed is as much of a sin as Sloth...

There is nothing "greedy" about working hard, getting paid, and wishing to not have what you rightfully earned stolen from you.

 

[edthecynic]

So you're a government school grad?

and that is one of the main reasons I find conservatives like you so deplorably repulsive


harmonica posted an HONEST and LOGICALLY ACCEPTABLE position; jesus was just another guy

You have every right to disagree.

But instead of engaging in LOGICAL CIVIL debate with him you CHOSE TO MOCK and RIDICULE him!


that is just SOOOOOOOOO conservative.....

ok

now it is time for you to
1. defend your deplorable actions
2. accuse liberals of STARTING it
3. demand an apology from everyone

So you're a government school grad?

So you are a home school dropout!

"So you're a government school grad?"

Ivy League grad.

And you?

That put a cork in his pie-hole.....

Hey dumbass homeschool dropout you cited YOURSELF!!!!!!

 

[irosie91]

Ungleaned fields are left for the poor (Leviticus 19:10). Wealthy people are not to harvest every last bit of their crops—and poor people are required to work to collect their food." Is God a Socialist?

.

Who does not work should not eat. This runs contrary to Leftist dogma. They will of course bring up people who cannot work, which nobody demands to do what they cannot do. But Leftists are always dishonest. Mendacity is their métier, along with pride.

In 2 Thessalonians 3:10, Paul said, “If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat”...

..... and one is led, ineluctably, away from socialism, and toward the greatest economic advance in the history of mankind:

capitalism.

the adage makes no sense. -----unless you DEFINE work---------can I steal
potatoes and claim "WORK" if I peel them?