Zone1 Who created all things?

[LuckyDuck01!]

Isaiah 44:24=This is what Jehovah has said, your repurchaser and the former of you from the belly. I Jehovah am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the Earth, who was with me?
Myself ( 1 single being) is meaning-The only power source and designer of all creation.--How do we know this?
Gen 1:26--Let US make man in our image--Us = we, But in verse Gen 1:27 it says-HE created, Prov 8:27-28-HE created HE = a single being--So then what does US mean?
US = Jehovah and his master worker( Jesus)(Prov 8:30= The one who was beside God during creating, the one whom God grew especially fond of= his son. At John 1:3 and Col 1:16-created-THROUGH Jesus= means another did the creating= HE=Jehovah THROUGH his master worker.
This is the reality of how creation worked.
Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of all creation--All creation occurred at the beginning, is there proof Jesus is created= yes-Prov 8:22-Possessed me as the beginning of your way( creating) The Hebrew word for Possessed= created--Thus Gods master worker( Jesus) was created first=direct=Monogenes( unique) which is the translation of only begotten son.
These are bible facts. There are certain errors in altered translations that make it seem like Jesus created all things, but the facts i have presented are bible truth=Gods truth.

Based upon what we are finding out in space and on exo-planets and asteroids, we are the stuff of stars.

 

[Alter2Ego]

I'm sorry you don't understand what I'm talking about.

Again, you're talking about the TRANSFER OF ENERGY.

The reason it says "generating energy" is because you're talking about "creating energy from coal, oil etc".

frigidweirdo:

The point is that energy, like everything in our universe, requires preexisting material. And the preexisting material was created by none other than Almighty God Jehovah who does not have a beginning.


Alter2Ego

 

[frigidweirdo]

frigidweirdo:

The point is that energy, like everything in our universe, requires preexisting material. And the preexisting material was created by none other than Almighty God Jehovah who does not have a beginning.


Alter2Ego

I thought God was spiritual.

How can God create things if he's not physical?

 

[hadit]

I thought God was spiritual.

How can God create things if he's not physical?

Because He's much greater than anything you can imagine, quantify, or understand. If you could understand everything about Him, He wouldn't be God.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Because He's much greater than anything you can imagine, quantify, or understand. If you could understand everything about Him, He wouldn't be God.

That's such a non answer it's incredible.

And it's amazing you know so much, but then all of a sudden you don't know. Hmmm, Cop out.

 

[hadit]

That's such a non answer it's incredible.

And it's amazing you know so much, but then all of a sudden you don't know. Hmmm, Cop out.

Are you seriously trying to say that something does not exist because you can't understand it?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Are you seriously trying to say that something does not exist because you can't understand it?

Nope, that's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying you've given an answer which doesn't make sense.

I get told that God created the universe. How? If you know he did it, then you know how. If you don't know how, you don't know he did it. Simples.

 

[ding]

How can God create things if he's not physical?

The material world is made of mind stuff. Everything is information. We exist in the mind of God.

It is primarily world renowned physicists who have expressed the pervasive relationship between mind and matter and the primacy of mind; Schrödinger, Eddington, Von Weizsacker, Pauli and Wald.

Modern day physicists have contemplated that the universe could be a computer simulation. Information is the fundamental nature of reality. Everything we observe and interact with is a manifestation of information.

The recognition of existence cannot be separated from existence. As Erwin Schrödinger put it: “The world is a construct of our sensations, perceptions, memories. It is convenient to regard it as existing objectively on its own. But it certainly does not become manifest by its mere existence.” The physical world is entirely abstract and without ‘actuality’ apart from its linkage to consciousness. Everything is information. Information is mind stuff. So that's the how.

 

[hadit]

Nope, that's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying you've given an answer which doesn't make sense.

I get told that God created the universe. How? If you know he did it, then you know how. If you don't know how, you don't know he did it. Simples.

When you are three years old, do you understand how your Dad's car works and how he got it, or do you just accept that fact that it does, he has it and he's taking you for rides in it?

Remember that, to God our minds are much simpler than a three-year-old's mind is to us. The child's understanding is not necessary for reality to exist.

 

[frigidweirdo]

When you are three years old, do you understand how your Dad's car works and how he got it, or do you just accept that fact that it does, he has it and he's taking you for rides in it?

Remember that, to God our minds are much simpler than a three-year-old's mind is to us. The child's understanding is not necessary for reality to exist.

When you're three years old, you don't understand how the car works.

You know the car engine can start when you put the key in the ignition, you know fumes come out the exhaust, you know it can go up to 100 mph before rattling.

Why? Because you've SEEN all of this stuff. There are things you know, because you've seen them. There are things you don't know, because you don't understand.

What you don't do, is say "my dad's car can fly", because you've never seen it fly.

What you're doing, is saying it can fly.

 

[ding]

When you're three years old, you don't understand how the car works.. You know the car engine can start when you put the key in the ignition, you know fumes come out the exhaust, you know it can go up to 100 mph before rattling.

Does a three year old even understand that?

What you don't do, is say "my dad's car can fly", because you've never seen it fly.

That's a bad analogy because new discoveries are made all the time. And sometimes it wasn't due to the discoverer seeing something. He actually had to go looking for it because he had an idea or belief that he would find it.

 

[hadit]

When you're three years old, you don't understand how the car works.

You know the car engine can start when you put the key in the ignition, you know fumes come out the exhaust, you know it can go up to 100 mph before rattling.

Why? Because you've SEEN all of this stuff. There are things you know, because you've seen them. There are things you don't know, because you don't understand.

What you don't do, is say "my dad's car can fly", because you've never seen it fly.

What you're doing, is saying it can fly.

Nonsense, I'm saying that you can see Dad's car moves and takes you places, but you have no understanding of how Dad got it or who built it and from what. That has nothing to do with whether it can fly. And, quite frankly, if the child watched "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang", he/she probably believes it can.

We can observe how the stars, planets and galaxies move. We can theorize the existence of dark matter because the observable universe doesn't contain enough matter for things to move as they do. We can observe the life cycle of stars, how they form, burn and eventually die. IOW, we can see the universe as it is now and can theorize the nature of its beginning.

What we cannot understand is how and why it all started. Your belief that it all just did completely on its own without any thought, design, or energy requires as much, if not more faith than mine does. Science is saying that the laws of physics that we painstakingly quantified and understand just magically appeared in an instant because they didn't exist an instant before. because they are violated by the universe spontaneously going from nothing to everything. Your belief REQUIRES that you leave behind your rationality as you approach the beginning of everything, because you can't see past that moment. You can only imagine what MIGHT have happened.

Grasping that a far larger intelligence and power created the universe is actually more believable than insisting it all just happened for no good reason because you don't want to accept the existence of that being.

 

[pknopp]

We will find out one day..........or not.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

onefour1:

The word "godhead" is nowhere in the oldest existing copies of the Hebrew (Old Testament) and Greek (New Testament) portions of the Bible . It showed up for the first time some 1,300 years in an English Translation, when John Wycliffe inserted the word "godhede" in HIS English translation. Wycliffe invented the word on his own. It was not inspired of God and therefore does not belong in the Bible. Deal with that.


Alter2Ego

What I don't get is why humans claim the bible is inspired by some god in the first place. Where is the proof?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Nonsense, I'm saying that you can see Dad's car moves and takes you places, but you have no understanding of how Dad got it or who built it and from what. That has nothing to do with whether it can fly. And, quite frankly, if the child watched "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang", he/she probably believes it can.

We can observe how the stars, planets and galaxies move. We can theorize the existence of dark matter because the observable universe doesn't contain enough matter for things to move as they do. We can observe the life cycle of stars, how they form, burn and eventually die. IOW, we can see the universe as it is now and can theorize the nature of its beginning.

What we cannot understand is how and why it all started. Your belief that it all just did completely on its own without any thought, design, or energy requires as much, if not more faith than mine does. Science is saying that the laws of physics that we painstakingly quantified and understand just magically appeared in an instant because they didn't exist an instant before. because they are violated by the universe spontaneously going from nothing to everything. Your belief REQUIRES that you leave behind your rationality as you approach the beginning of everything, because you can't see past that moment. You can only imagine what MIGHT have happened.

Grasping that a far larger intelligence and power created the universe is actually more believable than insisting it all just happened for no good reason because you don't want to accept the existence of that being.

I got what you were saying.

You were saying that a kid sees things and learns about the things they see, but doesn't understand how they happen.

I added that what you're doing is adding things you cannot see.

Have you ever seen matter or energy being made? No. So... why do you assume it was made?

 

[pknopp]

What I don't get is why humans claim the bible is inspired by some god in the first place. Where is the proof?

Why do you feel a need to "get it"?

 

[hadit]

I got what you were saying.

You were saying that a kid sees things and learns about the things they see, but doesn't understand how they happen.

I added that what you're doing is adding things you cannot see.

Have you ever seen matter or energy being made? No. So... why do you assume it was made?

Why would I assume they spontaneously appeared from nothing? That violates every scientific stance I've ever known.

 

[ding]

Have you ever seen matter or energy being made? No. So... why do you assume it was made?

Because of paired particle production and the enormous amount of cosmic microwave background radiation. Not to mention red shift and e=mc^2 which is the equivalency of mass and energy.

Why do you believe it wasn't?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why would I assume they spontaneously appeared from nothing? That violates every scientific stance I've ever known.

Well, that's the conversation you jumped into.

 

[hadit]

What I don't get is why humans claim the bible is inspired by some god in the first place. Where is the proof?

Down this road lies what I call, "Do a trick" theology. God could come down, present Himself to mankind and do miracle after miracle to prove His existence. Within a decade of Him leaving there would be those insisting that the miracles never happened, that they were illusions, that they were all explainable by natural processes, that they "just happened". Within a generation, a significant portion of the population would refuse to believe it, and God would have to come down and do it all over again because people are stubborn when they don't want to accept something.

Case in point, the Holocaust. How long was it after WWII ended and the camps were liberated before people were claiming it didn't happen, and how many people worldwide today think it either didn't happen or it wasn't horrific? This in spite of it being one of the most extensively documented atrocities the world has seen.