Zone1 Who created all things?

[Paradoxical#1]

Isaiah 44:24=This is what Jehovah has said, your repurchaser and the former of you from the belly. I Jehovah am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the Earth, who was with me?
Myself ( 1 single being) is meaning-The only power source and designer of all creation.--How do we know this?
Gen 1:26--Let US make man in our image--Us = we, But in verse Gen 1:27 it says-HE created, Prov 8:27-28-HE created HE = a single being--So then what does US mean?
US = Jehovah and his master worker( Jesus)(Prov 8:30= The one who was beside God during creating, the one whom God grew especially fond of= his son. At John 1:3 and Col 1:16-created-THROUGH Jesus= means another did the creating= HE=Jehovah THROUGH his master worker.
This is the reality of how creation worked.
Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of all creation--All creation occurred at the beginning, is there proof Jesus is created= yes-Prov 8:22-Possessed me as the beginning of your way( creating) The Hebrew word for Possessed= created--Thus Gods master worker( Jesus) was created first=direct=Monogenes( unique) which is the translation of only begotten son.
These are bible facts. There are certain errors in altered translations that make it seem like Jesus created all things, but the facts i have presented are bible truth=Gods truth.

Give us a reason why we should believe anything in the bible.

 

[kjw47]

Not 'who' but 'what'?

The true living God=YHVH(Jehovah)

 

[kjw47]

Okay, from your translation, what Daniel saw:

I kept watching until thrones were set in place and the Ancient of Days sat down.

Note, "thrones", not "throne", "thrones". That means God is seated on one of them, and someone else is going to sit on the other. Now, I've shown you these kinds of things from your translation before. Where do we EVER see God sitting with an equal? We do not.

Yes thrones=Jehovah God on one-Jesus = Gods appointed king gets one and Jesus' bride=144,000 sit on thrones as kings and priests( Rev 1:6--Rev 20:6) = the anointed bride of Christ= the little flock( Luke 12:32--Only these 144,000 have the right to partake of the 2 emblems of the Lords evening meal-Luke 22:29-30)= a covenant made to those who will sit on thrones.

 

[kjw47]

Give us a reason why we should believe anything in the bible.

Much of it has been proven truth. All on Earth are watching the book of revelation pass before their eyes, yet very few can see it.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

Much of it has been proven truth. All on Earth are watching the book of revelation pass before their eyes, yet very few can see it.

Very few can see it because only cultists see what they want to see and Revelations is complete bullshit.

But just for fun, suppose you tell me exactly what came to pass without using vague language and trying to use a shoehorn to fit a round peg in a square hole and call it a prophecy fulfilled.

 

[onefour1]

The more sane Christians on this forum accept that the Bible is a loads of stories with a moral twist to teach people a lesson. The less sane are those who think it's true.

In your opinion.

When have you ever seen anyone turn water into wine? Never? So why would you think some fictional dude from a book could do it, when you don't believe Harry Potter could fly around on a broom stick.

Harry Potter is a fictional character. Jesus Christ is a real person who actually lived on this earth.

Evidence for Jesus' Existence​

There is substantial historical evidence suggesting that Jesus Christ lived on Earth. The earliest textual evidence comes from the letters of the apostle Paul, written between AD 50-60, which mention Jesus and the doctrines of Christianity. Additionally, the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, writing around AD 93, referred to Jesus in his work "Jewish Antiquities," although parts of his account may have been altered by later Christian scribes. The Roman historian Tacitus, writing around AD 115, also mentioned Jesus in his "Annals," noting his crucifixion under Pontius Pilate. These references, along with numerous Christian writings from the first century, provide a strong foundation for the historicity of Jesus. Despite the lack of direct archaeological evidence, the abundance of textual sources from both Christian and non-Christian authors makes it highly unlikely that Jesus was a purely mythical figure.246

Furthermore, the detailed accounts of Jesus' life, teachings, and crucifixion in the New Testament gospels, which were written around 40 years after his death, align with the cultural and geographical context of first-century Palestine. The crucifixion of Jesus is also corroborated by the fact that it is mentioned in both Christian and non-Christian sources, indicating that it was a significant historical event.46

Scholars generally agree that the lack of archaeological evidence for Jesus' existence is not surprising given the socio-economic status of a figure like Jesus in antiquity. Most people from that era left no trace of their existence, and the poor, in particular, are virtually invisible in historical records. Therefore, the absence of physical evidence does not negate the likelihood of Jesus' existence.56

In summary, while there is no definitive physical proof, the extensive textual evidence from various sources strongly supports the view that Jesus Christ lived on Earth.


The Bible tells us that Jesus was the very Son of God. It testifies that he had supernatural powers to do many miracles. Changing water into wine is just one of them. Jesus had power to command the elements. From my personal studies on this topic, I believe there is a degree of intelligence in all things. God and His Son are so trusted by the intelligences of the universe that they obey His very command. So when Jesus commands the water to be wine, the intelligences within water obey his voice and restructure themselves into the chemical composition of wine. This power, at times, has been given to man. The most obvious is the prophet Moses. Moses commanded the Red Sea to part and it obeyed his command. Moses commanded all the plagues to come upon Egypt and it was so. I believe that it is nothing more than obedient intelligence.

Your divided quote seems a little weird and "divided" could mean many, many things. I doubt it means what you're saying it means.

Go on then, prove to me that the Bible is fact. I'll wait, not long, I'll give you one try before I tell you that you're wrong. (And by "prove" I don't mean throw sentences from the Bible at me)

I will not attempt to prove anything to you. God has not give us proof in order that we might learn to walk by faith. If you choose not to believe then you fall into those whom Jesus said to them, "Oh ye of little faith!".

 

[kjw47]

Very few can see it because only cultists see what they want to see and Revelations is complete bullshit.

But just for fun, suppose you tell me exactly what came to pass without using vague language and trying to use a shoehorn to fit a round peg in a square hole and call it a prophecy fulfilled.

You are seeing Revelation with your own eyes. Its been occurring for over 100 years. Its close to near the end of this system.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

You are seeing Revelation with your own eyes. Its been occurring for over 100 years. Its close to near the end of this system.

Oh, okeyyyy. Gotcha. I'm scared. Thanks for your valuable info.

 

[frigidweirdo]

In your opinion.

Harry Potter is a fictional character. Jesus Christ is a real person who actually lived on this earth.

Evidence for Jesus' Existence​

There is substantial historical evidence suggesting that Jesus Christ lived on Earth. The earliest textual evidence comes from the letters of the apostle Paul, written between AD 50-60, which mention Jesus and the doctrines of Christianity. Additionally, the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, writing around AD 93, referred to Jesus in his work "Jewish Antiquities," although parts of his account may have been altered by later Christian scribes. The Roman historian Tacitus, writing around AD 115, also mentioned Jesus in his "Annals," noting his crucifixion under Pontius Pilate. These references, along with numerous Christian writings from the first century, provide a strong foundation for the historicity of Jesus. Despite the lack of direct archaeological evidence, the abundance of textual sources from both Christian and non-Christian authors makes it highly unlikely that Jesus was a purely mythical figure.246

Furthermore, the detailed accounts of Jesus' life, teachings, and crucifixion in the New Testament gospels, which were written around 40 years after his death, align with the cultural and geographical context of first-century Palestine. The crucifixion of Jesus is also corroborated by the fact that it is mentioned in both Christian and non-Christian sources, indicating that it was a significant historical event.46

Scholars generally agree that the lack of archaeological evidence for Jesus' existence is not surprising given the socio-economic status of a figure like Jesus in antiquity. Most people from that era left no trace of their existence, and the poor, in particular, are virtually invisible in historical records. Therefore, the absence of physical evidence does not negate the likelihood of Jesus' existence.56

In summary, while there is no definitive physical proof, the extensive textual evidence from various sources strongly supports the view that Jesus Christ lived on Earth.


The Bible tells us that Jesus was the very Son of God. It testifies that he had supernatural powers to do many miracles. Changing water into wine is just one of them. Jesus had power to command the elements. From my personal studies on this topic, I believe there is a degree of intelligence in all things. God and His Son are so trusted by the intelligences of the universe that they obey His very command. So when Jesus commands the water to be wine, the intelligences within water obey his voice and restructure themselves into the chemical composition of wine. This power, at times, has been given to man. The most obvious is the prophet Moses. Moses commanded the Red Sea to part and it obeyed his command. Moses commanded all the plagues to come upon Egypt and it was so. I believe that it is nothing more than obedient intelligence.

I will not attempt to prove anything to you. God has not give us proof in order that we might learn to walk by faith. If you choose not to believe then you fall into those whom Jesus said to them, "Oh ye of little faith!".

It's not in my opinion. I've spoken with quite a few people on here about religion and some think the Bible is moral stories and others think everything is true.

Everything can't be true because there are too many contradictions in the Bible. Also there are too many fantastical things in the Bible that just don't make sense. Also there are things that have happened before in stories that carried over into the Bible.

20 Biblical Traditions Heavily Influenced by Other Ancient Cultures - History Collection

The Bible is an excellent example of ancient literature, dating from the mid-1st millennium BCE through the first century of the Common Era, even with its historical inaccuracies and theological biases. The importance of the Bible in these terms cannot be overstated. The Gutenberg Bible, on...

historycollection.com

"20 Biblical Traditions Heavily Influenced by Other Ancient Cultures"

You can go read where some of the stories come from, if you wish. If you wish to ignore, that's your problem.

There is no evidence that Jesus was a real person. You copied and pasted something, but you didn't source it. Also what you copied and pasted doesn't even provide any evidence for Jesus having ever existed.

The biggest give away "although parts of his account may have been altered by later Christian scribes."

Yep, the Bible has been manipulated over time to take away books they didn't like. In a time when there weren't people concerned with whether writings were REAL or not, people faked things, people changed things, people destroyed things.

In the Iraq War from 2003 and the subsequent occupation by the US, nobody knows how many people died. We had people there, we had journalists, we had people trying to find stats, and still, in this day and age, with flight, with internet, with satellite phones, we don't know how many people died.

Imagine 2,000 years ago and how little we can possibly know.

Yep, all you've got is "believing", which is fine. If it gets you through your life believing something that isn't true, fine. But you have chosen to come on here and talk about it with people like me.

"Believing" is accepting without knowing. I prefer reality.

 

[kjw47]

Oh, okeyyyy. Gotcha. I'm scared. Thanks for your valuable info.

All are taking their stand now.

 

[Paradoxical#1]

All are taking their stand now.

????

 

[hadit]

Yes thrones=Jehovah God on one-Jesus = Gods appointed king gets one and Jesus' bride=144,000 sit on thrones as kings and priests( Rev 1:6--Rev 20:6) = the anointed bride of Christ= the little flock( Luke 12:32--Only these 144,000 have the right to partake of the 2 emblems of the Lords evening meal-Luke 22:29-30)= a covenant made to those who will sit on thrones.

4: He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

God is going to allow someone other than Himself to receive worship?

 

[Alter2Ego]

And I explained why your supposed debunking is wrong.


Unless, of course, you're the sort of person who says "Well, I posted this, therefore it proves everything and I'm always right."

You want a conversation, we can have a conversation. You want to pretend that because you posted a website about something that isn't about what we're talking about, but claim it proves your point and there's no more conversation.... then.... we're done here.

frigidweirdo:

Your rejection of the government source isn't my problem. The source debunked your nonsensical claim that energy is not created, when in reality energy has to be created from preexisting materials, as the source explained.


"Primary energy sources include fossil fuels (petroleum, natural gas, and coal), nuclear energy, and renewable sources of energy. Electricity is a secondary energy source that is generated (produced) from primary energy sources.."

U.S. energy facts explained - consumption and production - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

U.S. energy supply by types of energy sources and energy consumption by transportation, industrial, commercial, residential, and electric power sectors.

www.eia.gov

You can't accept that because you're a sore loser. Who cares?



Alter2Ego

 

[Alter2Ego]

So an unfabricated word is one that nobody made up and was never invented? Can you give me an example of an unfabricated word. I would think that as language evolves, new words are created all the time which are "made up".

This would then call into question the true translation of the Greek word "Θεότητος" or "Theotētos" from the original Greek in the New Testament from Colossians 2

onefour1:

The word "godhead" is nowhere in the oldest existing copies of the Hebrew (Old Testament) and Greek (New Testament) portions of the Bible . It showed up for the first time some 1,300 years in an English Translation, when John Wycliffe inserted the word "godhede" in HIS English translation. Wycliffe invented the word on his own. It was not inspired of God and therefore does not belong in the Bible. Deal with that.


Alter2Ego

 

[onefour1]

onefour1:

The word "godhead" is nowhere in the oldest existing copies of the Hebrew (Old Testament) and Greek (New Testament) portions of the Bible . It showed up for the first time some 1,500 years after the Bible was written by inspiration of Jehovah. Deal with that.


Alter2Ego

Just asking what the Greek was translated into English as when it comes to "Θεότητος" or "Theotētos" in the original text?

 

[Alter2Ego]

It's a problem to compare one book of fiction written 2,000 years ago with another book of fiction written 30 years ago???

Do you honestly think that Jesus turned water into wine? That Noah put two of every species onto a boat the same size as the USS Wyoming? There are TWO MILLION species, and some of them would have been unknown to Noah as he would not have known about the Americas, Australia etc etc.

The Bible isn't fact.

frigidweirdo:

Considering you can't cope with a government source that explained where energy comes from (after you falsely claimed energy is not created), I can well understand why you cannot cope with the reality that the Bible contains some 2,000 accurately fulfilled prophecies and that all of the miraculous events mentioned therein are true.

The 2,000 accurately fulfilled prophecies are proof that the Bible can be trusted. If it says Jesus turned water into wine by miraculous means (because the Creator, Jehovah the Father, gave him the ability to do so) then it must be so.

As for your objections about Noah being able to put two of every species into the ark, what you and all skeptics don't seem to realize is that two of every "species" doesn't mean two of every variation of a particular species. For instance, dogs are descendants of gray wolves. And all "species" of dog came from a single pair. So all that was required was for Noah to rescue a pair of wolves.

Dog Evolution History: Where Do Dogs Come From? - Canine Journal

Wonder where your dog came from? While there's a great deal of conflict on dog evolution, there are some definitive answers to explore.

www.caninejournal.com

The same is true for different types of birds. One breeding pair can produce variations of themselves up to a set point. Jehovah created them with that ability--which atheists and other ignorant people claim is evolution. In reality, it's the same creature producing variations of itself up to a set point.

The list goes on and one with the different types of animals. So, yes, it is quite feasible that Noah rescued two of every different type of living creature. All that was required was a breeding pair of each type of animal or bird, insect, etc.

Take a look at humans. All humans can interbreed, which indicates all humans are related. All humans came from Adam and Eve.



Alter2Ego

 

[frigidweirdo]

frigidweirdo:

Your rejection of the government source isn't my problem. The source debunked your nonsensical claim that energy is not created, when in reality energy has to be created from preexisting materials, as the source explained.


"Primary energy sources include fossil fuels (petroleum, natural gas, and coal), nuclear energy, and renewable sources of energy. Electricity is a secondary energy source that is generated (produced) from primary energy sources.."

U.S. energy facts explained - consumption and production - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

U.S. energy supply by types of energy sources and energy consumption by transportation, industrial, commercial, residential, and electric power sectors.

www.eia.gov

You can't accept that because you're a sore loser. Who cares?



Alter2Ego

It's because you don't understand what you're reading.

Your source talks about sources of energy. It does not talk about subatomic energy. It's something quite different.

String theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is string theory.

"In physics, string theory is a theoretical framework in which the point-like particles of particle physics are replaced by one-dimensional objects called strings."

"In string theory, one of the many vibrational states of the string corresponds to the graviton, a quantum mechanical particle that carries the gravitational force. Thus, string theory is a theory of quantum gravity."

Essentially strings are waves.

String (physics) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

File:String Vibrations.gif - Wikipedia Here's a gif of what they think strings might be. Essentially they bits of energy at a very, very small scale.

While string theory might not be the answer to what quantum physics is, M theory is taking over (M meaning?? Who knows? Might mean "multiple" and in, they have lots of different ideas, they just need to get the math to work)

But essentially at a sub atomic level everything is energy moving. How it moves determines what it does, how it interacts with things around it.

M-theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We know atoms are made of energy because we've blown atoms up. Atom bombs. You split the atom, there's no much energy inside of those atoms that they produce huge explosions.

What you're talking about is taking things and changing their nature at a molecular level. Moving energy from here to there. When you have a fire, all you're doing is moving energy.

When the day gets hotter, more energy is moving, and atoms are taking in more energy from heat, from light, and they're speeding up, which means you heat up. Or energy can go into a tree, which sinks into the ground, become coal. You set it alight and it releases this energy. The energy changes, it doesn't disappear. Just becomes something else.

None of this energy is created. It was always there. It just changed.

 

[frigidweirdo]

frigidweirdo:

Considering you can't cope with a government source that explained where energy comes from (after you falsely claimed energy is not created), I can well understand why you cannot cope with the reality that the Bible contains some 2,000 accurately fulfilled prophecies and that all of the miraculous events mentioned therein are true.

The 2,000 accurately fulfilled prophecies are proof that the Bible can be trusted. If it says Jesus turned water into wine by miraculous means (because the Creator, Jehovah the Father, gave him the ability to do so) then it must be so.

As for your objections about Noah being able to put two of every species into the ark, what you and all skeptics don't seem to realize is that two of every "species" doesn't mean two of every variation of a particular species. For instance, dogs are descendants of gray wolves. And all "species" of dog came from a single pair. So all that was required was for Noah to rescue a pair of wolves.

Dog Evolution History: Where Do Dogs Come From? - Canine Journal

Wonder where your dog came from? While there's a great deal of conflict on dog evolution, there are some definitive answers to explore.

www.caninejournal.com

The same is true for different types of birds. One breeding pair can produce variations of themselves up to a set point. Jehovah created them with that ability--which atheists and other ignorant people claim is evolution. In reality, it's the same creature producing variations of itself up to a set point.

The list goes on and one with the different types of animals. So, yes, it is quite feasible that Noah rescued two of every different type of living creature. All that was required was a breeding pair of each type of animal or bird, insect, etc.

Take a look at humans. All humans can interbreed, which indicates all humans are related. All humans came from Adam and Eve.



Alter2Ego

Your source does NOT say energy is created.

So you're right, I can't cope with a source that does not say what you claim it says.

What prophesies came true? In my view prophesies that "come true" are because they're so vague, it's obvious they will "come true".

Maybe I make a prophesy that someone will become leader of world at some point in history. I just sit back and when it happens declare that I'm can see the future.

"what you and all skeptics don't seem to realize is that two of every "species" doesn't mean two of every variation of a particular species."

This is what I love about this argument, when you see something in the Bible, it clearly doesn't work, so you set about making it fit. How do you know that they didn't put two of every species? Why are you so knowledgeable that it doesn't mean this?

So now you're claiming evolution, which is hilarious considering the Bible bashers say NO, there is no evolution.

You think humans evolved like this in 6,000 years?

 

[Alter2Ego]

Your source does NOT say energy is created.

So you're right, I can't cope with a source that does not say what you claim it says.

Yes, the source says energy is created, frigidweirdo. I quoted it two different times, and you continue to pretend to not see it. Below is another source saying the exact same thing.

"What Are the Different Methods of Energy Generation?​

There are several methods of generating energy, each using specific technologies and resources to produce electricity for our consumption:

• Fossil Fuels: Coal, oil, and natural gas are burned to create electricity, but they contribute to air pollution and climate change.
• Nuclear Power: This method uses the process of splitting atoms to produce heat, which is then converted into electricity.
• Renewable Energy: Sources like solar, wind, hydroelectric, and ocean thermal energy conversion offer cleaner alternatives with minimal environmental impact."

Energy Generation: How We Produce Power

Energy generation is essential for our modern society, powering homes, industries, and technology. The methods we use to generate energy, from fossil fuels to renewable sources, have significant effects on our environment and future sustainability. This document explores various energy...

www.consumerenergycenter.org

Alter2Ego

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yes, the source says energy is created, frigidweirdo. I quoted it two different times, and you continue to pretend to not see it. Below is another source saying the exact same thing.

"What Are the Different Methods of Energy Generation?​

There are several methods of generating energy, each using specific technologies and resources to produce electricity for our consumption:

• Fossil Fuels: Coal, oil, and natural gas are burned to create electricity, but they contribute to air pollution and climate change.
• Nuclear Power: This method uses the process of splitting atoms to produce heat, which is then converted into electricity.
• Renewable Energy: Sources like solar, wind, hydroelectric, and ocean thermal energy conversion offer cleaner alternatives with minimal environmental impact."

Energy Generation: How We Produce Power

Energy generation is essential for our modern society, powering homes, industries, and technology. The methods we use to generate energy, from fossil fuels to renewable sources, have significant effects on our environment and future sustainability. This document explores various energy...

www.consumerenergycenter.org

Alter2Ego

I'm sorry you don't understand what I'm talking about.

Again, you're talking about the TRANSFER OF ENERGY.

The reason it says "generating energy" is because you're talking about "creating energy from coal, oil etc".

This is terminology used when dealing with an every day human problem.

This isn't what we're talking about.

Energy isn't created here. It's just simplification. Energy is TRANSFERED.

"Creating electricity" is transferring energy from one place to another place.

Say for example you have solar power.

The energy comes from the Sun. It doesn't just come out of nowhere. The Sun's rays contain energy. Hence why you get burned when out in the Sun, why the sidewalk heats up. Energy is being TRANSFERRED.

Same with coal. It has energy within it.

Energy Cannot Be Created or Destroyed True or False (The Truth) - Powering Solution

The answer to this question is both yes and no. Energy cannot be created or destroyed but can be converted from one form to another.The sum is always same

poweringsolution.com

"In physics, the law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can only be transferred or converted from one form to another. This is a fundamental principle of thermodynamics and classical mechanics. The total amount of energy in a closed system remains constant over time."

"The answer to this question is both yes and no. Energy cannot be created or destroyed but can be converted from one form to another."

"For Example, Energy Can Be Converted From Chemical Energy to Heat Energy"

The latter is what you're talking about.

Energy CANNOT BE DESTROYED. There is X amount of energy in the universe, and as far as we know, it can't change.