Has Trump ever taken responsibility?

[Coyote]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

No it is not 'unproven' doctors are reporting that most cases are cured with it with no side affects. It is more correct to say it is not FDA approved specifically for treatment of the Coronavirus however the FDA did approve it for off label use. It won't be officially 'approved' until FDA mandated double-blind testing is done. As usual, the Devil is in the details here, some want to blame Trump for pushing an 'unapproved' drug but that is only a half truth and, as usual, the TDSers gloom onto that like flies on shit.

Unproven is accurate because what we have are anecdotal claims. Since it's harmless, I see no issue with it. But pushing an unproven drug OVER the statements of medical professionals, is not a good idea.

Is Trump a doctor now?

OK.. I see.. This is all about Trump... Good luck with that...

I'm uncomfortable with politicians touting medicine and going against medical professionals. Trump is the first I've known to do that.

Sorry for coming at you for this -- but it's old and tiresome.. If Trump DEMANDED that people don't blow thru stop signs, all the TDS'ers would be doing it.. You are SO consumed by the politics, that you won't do the defensive thing to save your life or others..

Lemme explain...

Ya know what ELSE IS UNPROVEN??? This entire govt bureaucratic RESPONSE to COVID is "unproven".. Based on modeling that is FAILING so badly, that the modelers have to REVISE their estimates on ALMOST a daily basis.. WHY? Because the MODELS are "educated guesses".. NOT scientific facts.. But that didn't stop the media from grabbing at the WORST CASE NUMBERS and playing on the public fears...

I've done a lot of modeling in more than 4 or 5 different disciplines.. And if you have to REVISE your models constantly, they have very little "predictive value"... Means (in terms of HCQuine) that their "efficacy" SUCKS...

And YET -- we've done a sedation of the entire country, made governors pee their pants over the models.. Financially put 10s of Million at economic risk, because of "unproven" models..

Not JUST the models for deaths and spread... The CDC IS GUESSING at a mortality rate by ESTIMATING the the #infections = (ABOUT) #reported X 2... RIGHT NOW -- there is vibrant scientific debate that the factor of 2 might be more like 10 or even 40... It's NOT "proven" and it's NOT settled science...

But you're here pushing this HCQuine cart UPHILL in a blizzard because you HATE Trump for offering that hope.. That's your burden sis.. But you're SERIOUSLY being selective about what is scientific proof and missing the entire AD HOC nature of the guessing that we're exploring right now as a nation...

Edit... THe OTHER unproven science is the whole EXPERIMENT of "social distancing".. Which is WHY the models FAILED in the 1st place... If you could suppress the TDS long enough to WATCH Dr. Birx at a WH press opportunity yesterday -- SHE ADMITTED that the entire "social distancing" experiment was PURELY ACADEMIC prior to this event.. If we had MEASUREMENTS of efficacy for it -- the models would have SOME predictive ability...

In short -- EVERYONE in charge is "winging itt" if you DEMAND rigid scientific PROOF

No shit sister.

Maybe you should give your own TDS (Trump Defense Syndrome) a rest here Instead of blaming any and all criticism of Trump as “hate”. Geez...you could only come up with one thing you thought he did wrong for God sakes and you accuse me of TDS? No wonder his supporters refuse to hold him accountable. EVER.

My objection is that I am pretty skeptical miracles touted by snake oil salesmen when they are not supported by good data. And, if it leads to dangerous behavior because people believe a dose of quinine will fix it.

And of course there are a lot of unknowns in dealing with this pandemic, who is arguing that? We have never been through this before. I certainly don’t envy the President and state governors in trying to make the determination between public health risks and jobs/economy.

Don’t ever get tired of blaming everything on the Dems? Is that your own version of TDS? Defend Trump at all costs?

Huh? You’re kidding, right?

About what?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

No it is not 'unproven' doctors are reporting that most cases are cured with it with no side affects. It is more correct to say it is not FDA approved specifically for treatment of the Coronavirus however the FDA did approve it for off label use. It won't be officially 'approved' until FDA mandated double-blind testing is done. As usual, the Devil is in the details here, some want to blame Trump for pushing an 'unapproved' drug but that is only a half truth and, as usual, the TDSers gloom onto that like flies on shit.

Unproven is accurate because what we have are anecdotal claims. Since it's harmless, I see no issue with it. But pushing an unproven drug OVER the statements of medical professionals, is not a good idea.

Is Trump a doctor now?

OK.. I see.. This is all about Trump... Good luck with that...

I'm uncomfortable with politicians touting medicine and going against medical professionals. Trump is the first I've known to do that.

Sorry for coming at you for this -- but it's old and tiresome.. If Trump DEMANDED that people don't blow thru stop signs, all the TDS'ers would be doing it.. You are SO consumed by the politics, that you won't do the defensive thing to save your life or others..

Lemme explain...

Ya know what ELSE IS UNPROVEN??? This entire govt bureaucratic RESPONSE to COVID is "unproven".. Based on modeling that is FAILING so badly, that the modelers have to REVISE their estimates on ALMOST a daily basis.. WHY? Because the MODELS are "educated guesses".. NOT scientific facts.. But that didn't stop the media from grabbing at the WORST CASE NUMBERS and playing on the public fears...

I've done a lot of modeling in more than 4 or 5 different disciplines.. And if you have to REVISE your models constantly, they have very little "predictive value"... Means (in terms of HCQuine) that their "efficacy" SUCKS...

And YET -- we've done a sedation of the entire country, made governors pee their pants over the models.. Financially put 10s of Million at economic risk, because of "unproven" models..

Not JUST the models for deaths and spread... The CDC IS GUESSING at a mortality rate by ESTIMATING the the #infections = (ABOUT) #reported X 2... RIGHT NOW -- there is vibrant scientific debate that the factor of 2 might be more like 10 or even 40... It's NOT "proven" and it's NOT settled science...

But you're here pushing this HCQuine cart UPHILL in a blizzard because you HATE Trump for offering that hope.. That's your burden sis.. But you're SERIOUSLY being selective about what is scientific proof and missing the entire AD HOC nature of the guessing that we're exploring right now as a nation...

Edit... THe OTHER unproven science is the whole EXPERIMENT of "social distancing".. Which is WHY the models FAILED in the 1st place... If you could suppress the TDS long enough to WATCH Dr. Birx at a WH press opportunity yesterday -- SHE ADMITTED that the entire "social distancing" experiment was PURELY ACADEMIC prior to this event.. If we had MEASUREMENTS of efficacy for it -- the models would have SOME predictive ability...

In short -- EVERYONE in charge is "winging itt" if you DEMAND rigid scientific PROOF

No shit sister.

Maybe you should give your own TDS (Trump Defense Syndrome) a rest here Instead of blaming any and all criticism of Trump as “hate”. Geez...you could only come up with one thing you thought he did wrong for God sakes and you accuse me of TDS? No wonder his supporters refuse to hold him accountable. EVER.

My objection is that I am pretty skeptical miracles touted by snake oil salesmen when they are not supported by good data. And, if it leads to dangerous behavior because people believe a dose of quinine will fix it.

And of course there are a lot of unknowns in dealing with this pandemic, who is arguing that? We have never been through this before. I certainly don’t envy the President and state governors in trying to make the determination between public health risks and jobs/economy.

Don’t ever get tired of blaming everything on the Dems? Is that your own version of TDS? Defend Trump at all costs?

Huh? You’re kidding, right?

About what?

I have Said 100x on this board how I wish he would attack the deficit and our healthcare system and now we see what can happen when you don’t. We are spending way more and our hospital system is in Chaos. I also criticized him for dealing too much with China and not pushing for newer supply chains.

 

[Coyote]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

No it is not 'unproven' doctors are reporting that most cases are cured with it with no side affects. It is more correct to say it is not FDA approved specifically for treatment of the Coronavirus however the FDA did approve it for off label use. It won't be officially 'approved' until FDA mandated double-blind testing is done. As usual, the Devil is in the details here, some want to blame Trump for pushing an 'unapproved' drug but that is only a half truth and, as usual, the TDSers gloom onto that like flies on shit.

Unproven is accurate because what we have are anecdotal claims. Since it's harmless, I see no issue with it. But pushing an unproven drug OVER the statements of medical professionals, is not a good idea.

Is Trump a doctor now?

OK.. I see.. This is all about Trump... Good luck with that...

I'm uncomfortable with politicians touting medicine and going against medical professionals. Trump is the first I've known to do that.

Sorry for coming at you for this -- but it's old and tiresome.. If Trump DEMANDED that people don't blow thru stop signs, all the TDS'ers would be doing it.. You are SO consumed by the politics, that you won't do the defensive thing to save your life or others..

Lemme explain...

Ya know what ELSE IS UNPROVEN??? This entire govt bureaucratic RESPONSE to COVID is "unproven".. Based on modeling that is FAILING so badly, that the modelers have to REVISE their estimates on ALMOST a daily basis.. WHY? Because the MODELS are "educated guesses".. NOT scientific facts.. But that didn't stop the media from grabbing at the WORST CASE NUMBERS and playing on the public fears...

I've done a lot of modeling in more than 4 or 5 different disciplines.. And if you have to REVISE your models constantly, they have very little "predictive value"... Means (in terms of HCQuine) that their "efficacy" SUCKS...

And YET -- we've done a sedation of the entire country, made governors pee their pants over the models.. Financially put 10s of Million at economic risk, because of "unproven" models..

Not JUST the models for deaths and spread... The CDC IS GUESSING at a mortality rate by ESTIMATING the the #infections = (ABOUT) #reported X 2... RIGHT NOW -- there is vibrant scientific debate that the factor of 2 might be more like 10 or even 40... It's NOT "proven" and it's NOT settled science...

But you're here pushing this HCQuine cart UPHILL in a blizzard because you HATE Trump for offering that hope.. That's your burden sis.. But you're SERIOUSLY being selective about what is scientific proof and missing the entire AD HOC nature of the guessing that we're exploring right now as a nation...

Edit... THe OTHER unproven science is the whole EXPERIMENT of "social distancing".. Which is WHY the models FAILED in the 1st place... If you could suppress the TDS long enough to WATCH Dr. Birx at a WH press opportunity yesterday -- SHE ADMITTED that the entire "social distancing" experiment was PURELY ACADEMIC prior to this event.. If we had MEASUREMENTS of efficacy for it -- the models would have SOME predictive ability...

In short -- EVERYONE in charge is "winging itt" if you DEMAND rigid scientific PROOF

No shit sister.

Maybe you should give your own TDS (Trump Defense Syndrome) a rest here Instead of blaming any and all criticism of Trump as “hate”. Geez...you could only come up with one thing you thought he did wrong for God sakes and you accuse me of TDS? No wonder his supporters refuse to hold him accountable. EVER.

My objection is that I am pretty skeptical miracles touted by snake oil salesmen when they are not supported by good data. And, if it leads to dangerous behavior because people believe a dose of quinine will fix it.

And of course there are a lot of unknowns in dealing with this pandemic, who is arguing that? We have never been through this before. I certainly don’t envy the President and state governors in trying to make the determination between public health risks and jobs/economy.

Don’t ever get tired of blaming everything on the Dems? Is that your own version of TDS? Defend Trump at all costs?

Huh? You’re kidding, right?

About what?

I have Said 100x on this board how I wish he would attack the deficit and our healthcare system and now we see what can happen when you don’t. We are spending way more and our hospital system is in Chaos. I also criticized him for dealing too much with China and not pushing for newer supply chains.

That is true, I wouldn’t call you a Trumpist, just a conservative.

 

[BluesLegend]

President Trump is still 'inheriting' Obama's problems. He won't need to take responsibility until mid way through his 2nd term like Obama.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

No it is not 'unproven' doctors are reporting that most cases are cured with it with no side affects. It is more correct to say it is not FDA approved specifically for treatment of the Coronavirus however the FDA did approve it for off label use. It won't be officially 'approved' until FDA mandated double-blind testing is done. As usual, the Devil is in the details here, some want to blame Trump for pushing an 'unapproved' drug but that is only a half truth and, as usual, the TDSers gloom onto that like flies on shit.

Unproven is accurate because what we have are anecdotal claims. Since it's harmless, I see no issue with it. But pushing an unproven drug OVER the statements of medical professionals, is not a good idea.

Is Trump a doctor now?

OK.. I see.. This is all about Trump... Good luck with that...

I'm uncomfortable with politicians touting medicine and going against medical professionals. Trump is the first I've known to do that.

Sorry for coming at you for this -- but it's old and tiresome.. If Trump DEMANDED that people don't blow thru stop signs, all the TDS'ers would be doing it.. You are SO consumed by the politics, that you won't do the defensive thing to save your life or others..

Lemme explain...

Ya know what ELSE IS UNPROVEN??? This entire govt bureaucratic RESPONSE to COVID is "unproven".. Based on modeling that is FAILING so badly, that the modelers have to REVISE their estimates on ALMOST a daily basis.. WHY? Because the MODELS are "educated guesses".. NOT scientific facts.. But that didn't stop the media from grabbing at the WORST CASE NUMBERS and playing on the public fears...

I've done a lot of modeling in more than 4 or 5 different disciplines.. And if you have to REVISE your models constantly, they have very little "predictive value"... Means (in terms of HCQuine) that their "efficacy" SUCKS...

And YET -- we've done a sedation of the entire country, made governors pee their pants over the models.. Financially put 10s of Million at economic risk, because of "unproven" models..

Not JUST the models for deaths and spread... The CDC IS GUESSING at a mortality rate by ESTIMATING the the #infections = (ABOUT) #reported X 2... RIGHT NOW -- there is vibrant scientific debate that the factor of 2 might be more like 10 or even 40... It's NOT "proven" and it's NOT settled science...

But you're here pushing this HCQuine cart UPHILL in a blizzard because you HATE Trump for offering that hope.. That's your burden sis.. But you're SERIOUSLY being selective about what is scientific proof and missing the entire AD HOC nature of the guessing that we're exploring right now as a nation...

Edit... THe OTHER unproven science is the whole EXPERIMENT of "social distancing".. Which is WHY the models FAILED in the 1st place... If you could suppress the TDS long enough to WATCH Dr. Birx at a WH press opportunity yesterday -- SHE ADMITTED that the entire "social distancing" experiment was PURELY ACADEMIC prior to this event.. If we had MEASUREMENTS of efficacy for it -- the models would have SOME predictive ability...

In short -- EVERYONE in charge is "winging itt" if you DEMAND rigid scientific PROOF

No shit sister.

Maybe you should give your own TDS (Trump Defense Syndrome) a rest here Instead of blaming any and all criticism of Trump as “hate”. Geez...you could only come up with one thing you thought he did wrong for God sakes and you accuse me of TDS? No wonder his supporters refuse to hold him accountable. EVER.

My objection is that I am pretty skeptical miracles touted by snake oil salesmen when they are not supported by good data. And, if it leads to dangerous behavior because people believe a dose of quinine will fix it.

And of course there are a lot of unknowns in dealing with this pandemic, who is arguing that? We have never been through this before. I certainly don’t envy the President and state governors in trying to make the determination between public health risks and jobs/economy.

Don’t ever get tired of blaming everything on the Dems? Is that your own version of TDS? Defend Trump at all costs?

Huh? You’re kidding, right?

About what?

I have Said 100x on this board how I wish he would attack the deficit and our healthcare system and now we see what can happen when you don’t. We are spending way more and our hospital system is in Chaos. I also criticized him for dealing too much with China and not pushing for newer supply chains.

That is true, I wouldn’t call you a Trumpist, just a conservative.

I am less a conservative and more an anti Leftist. I am Pro Choice, don’t care who married whom and generally believe we should help those with rougher ladders to climb for success. What I do not like is blaming Trump for all the sins of this country and the world, blaming Jews and Israel for the same sins and the Leftists PC culture.

I did not leave the Democrat party, they left me. I am and always will be an Independent but it’s tough to support a party that openly votes in antisemites like Tlaib and Omar and who tells me that men may identify as women and play sports vs my daughters.

 

[Coyote]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

No it is not 'unproven' doctors are reporting that most cases are cured with it with no side affects. It is more correct to say it is not FDA approved specifically for treatment of the Coronavirus however the FDA did approve it for off label use. It won't be officially 'approved' until FDA mandated double-blind testing is done. As usual, the Devil is in the details here, some want to blame Trump for pushing an 'unapproved' drug but that is only a half truth and, as usual, the TDSers gloom onto that like flies on shit.

Unproven is accurate because what we have are anecdotal claims. Since it's harmless, I see no issue with it. But pushing an unproven drug OVER the statements of medical professionals, is not a good idea.

Is Trump a doctor now?

OK.. I see.. This is all about Trump... Good luck with that...

I'm uncomfortable with politicians touting medicine and going against medical professionals. Trump is the first I've known to do that.

Sorry for coming at you for this -- but it's old and tiresome.. If Trump DEMANDED that people don't blow thru stop signs, all the TDS'ers would be doing it.. You are SO consumed by the politics, that you won't do the defensive thing to save your life or others..

Lemme explain...

Ya know what ELSE IS UNPROVEN??? This entire govt bureaucratic RESPONSE to COVID is "unproven".. Based on modeling that is FAILING so badly, that the modelers have to REVISE their estimates on ALMOST a daily basis.. WHY? Because the MODELS are "educated guesses".. NOT scientific facts.. But that didn't stop the media from grabbing at the WORST CASE NUMBERS and playing on the public fears...

I've done a lot of modeling in more than 4 or 5 different disciplines.. And if you have to REVISE your models constantly, they have very little "predictive value"... Means (in terms of HCQuine) that their "efficacy" SUCKS...

And YET -- we've done a sedation of the entire country, made governors pee their pants over the models.. Financially put 10s of Million at economic risk, because of "unproven" models..

Not JUST the models for deaths and spread... The CDC IS GUESSING at a mortality rate by ESTIMATING the the #infections = (ABOUT) #reported X 2... RIGHT NOW -- there is vibrant scientific debate that the factor of 2 might be more like 10 or even 40... It's NOT "proven" and it's NOT settled science...

But you're here pushing this HCQuine cart UPHILL in a blizzard because you HATE Trump for offering that hope.. That's your burden sis.. But you're SERIOUSLY being selective about what is scientific proof and missing the entire AD HOC nature of the guessing that we're exploring right now as a nation...

Edit... THe OTHER unproven science is the whole EXPERIMENT of "social distancing".. Which is WHY the models FAILED in the 1st place... If you could suppress the TDS long enough to WATCH Dr. Birx at a WH press opportunity yesterday -- SHE ADMITTED that the entire "social distancing" experiment was PURELY ACADEMIC prior to this event.. If we had MEASUREMENTS of efficacy for it -- the models would have SOME predictive ability...

In short -- EVERYONE in charge is "winging itt" if you DEMAND rigid scientific PROOF

No shit sister.

Maybe you should give your own TDS (Trump Defense Syndrome) a rest here Instead of blaming any and all criticism of Trump as “hate”. Geez...you could only come up with one thing you thought he did wrong for God sakes and you accuse me of TDS? No wonder his supporters refuse to hold him accountable. EVER.

My objection is that I am pretty skeptical miracles touted by snake oil salesmen when they are not supported by good data. And, if it leads to dangerous behavior because people believe a dose of quinine will fix it.

And of course there are a lot of unknowns in dealing with this pandemic, who is arguing that? We have never been through this before. I certainly don’t envy the President and state governors in trying to make the determination between public health risks and jobs/economy.

Don’t ever get tired of blaming everything on the Dems? Is that your own version of TDS? Defend Trump at all costs?

Huh? You’re kidding, right?

About what?

I have Said 100x on this board how I wish he would attack the deficit and our healthcare system and now we see what can happen when you don’t. We are spending way more and our hospital system is in Chaos. I also criticized him for dealing too much with China and not pushing for newer supply chains.

That is true, I wouldn’t call you a Trumpist, just a conservative.

I am less a conservative and more an anti Leftist. I am Pro Choice, don’t care who married whom and generally believe we should help those with rougher ladders to climb for success. What I do not like is blaming Trump for all the sins of this country and the world, blaming Jews and Israel for the same sins and the Leftists PC culture.

I did not leave the Democrat party, they left me. I am and always will be an Independent but it’s tough to support a party that openly votes in antisemites like Tlaib and Omar and who tells me that men may identify as women and play sports vs my daughters.

Informative. Libertarian?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

No it is not 'unproven' doctors are reporting that most cases are cured with it with no side affects. It is more correct to say it is not FDA approved specifically for treatment of the Coronavirus however the FDA did approve it for off label use. It won't be officially 'approved' until FDA mandated double-blind testing is done. As usual, the Devil is in the details here, some want to blame Trump for pushing an 'unapproved' drug but that is only a half truth and, as usual, the TDSers gloom onto that like flies on shit.

Unproven is accurate because what we have are anecdotal claims. Since it's harmless, I see no issue with it. But pushing an unproven drug OVER the statements of medical professionals, is not a good idea.

Is Trump a doctor now?

OK.. I see.. This is all about Trump... Good luck with that...

I'm uncomfortable with politicians touting medicine and going against medical professionals. Trump is the first I've known to do that.

Sorry for coming at you for this -- but it's old and tiresome.. If Trump DEMANDED that people don't blow thru stop signs, all the TDS'ers would be doing it.. You are SO consumed by the politics, that you won't do the defensive thing to save your life or others..

Lemme explain...

Ya know what ELSE IS UNPROVEN??? This entire govt bureaucratic RESPONSE to COVID is "unproven".. Based on modeling that is FAILING so badly, that the modelers have to REVISE their estimates on ALMOST a daily basis.. WHY? Because the MODELS are "educated guesses".. NOT scientific facts.. But that didn't stop the media from grabbing at the WORST CASE NUMBERS and playing on the public fears...

I've done a lot of modeling in more than 4 or 5 different disciplines.. And if you have to REVISE your models constantly, they have very little "predictive value"... Means (in terms of HCQuine) that their "efficacy" SUCKS...

And YET -- we've done a sedation of the entire country, made governors pee their pants over the models.. Financially put 10s of Million at economic risk, because of "unproven" models..

Not JUST the models for deaths and spread... The CDC IS GUESSING at a mortality rate by ESTIMATING the the #infections = (ABOUT) #reported X 2... RIGHT NOW -- there is vibrant scientific debate that the factor of 2 might be more like 10 or even 40... It's NOT "proven" and it's NOT settled science...

But you're here pushing this HCQuine cart UPHILL in a blizzard because you HATE Trump for offering that hope.. That's your burden sis.. But you're SERIOUSLY being selective about what is scientific proof and missing the entire AD HOC nature of the guessing that we're exploring right now as a nation...

Edit... THe OTHER unproven science is the whole EXPERIMENT of "social distancing".. Which is WHY the models FAILED in the 1st place... If you could suppress the TDS long enough to WATCH Dr. Birx at a WH press opportunity yesterday -- SHE ADMITTED that the entire "social distancing" experiment was PURELY ACADEMIC prior to this event.. If we had MEASUREMENTS of efficacy for it -- the models would have SOME predictive ability...

In short -- EVERYONE in charge is "winging itt" if you DEMAND rigid scientific PROOF

No shit sister.

Maybe you should give your own TDS (Trump Defense Syndrome) a rest here Instead of blaming any and all criticism of Trump as “hate”. Geez...you could only come up with one thing you thought he did wrong for God sakes and you accuse me of TDS? No wonder his supporters refuse to hold him accountable. EVER.

My objection is that I am pretty skeptical miracles touted by snake oil salesmen when they are not supported by good data. And, if it leads to dangerous behavior because people believe a dose of quinine will fix it.

And of course there are a lot of unknowns in dealing with this pandemic, who is arguing that? We have never been through this before. I certainly don’t envy the President and state governors in trying to make the determination between public health risks and jobs/economy.

Don’t ever get tired of blaming everything on the Dems? Is that your own version of TDS? Defend Trump at all costs?

Huh? You’re kidding, right?

About what?

I have Said 100x on this board how I wish he would attack the deficit and our healthcare system and now we see what can happen when you don’t. We are spending way more and our hospital system is in Chaos. I also criticized him for dealing too much with China and not pushing for newer supply chains.

That is true, I wouldn’t call you a Trumpist, just a conservative.

I am less a conservative and more an anti Leftist. I am Pro Choice, don’t care who married whom and generally believe we should help those with rougher ladders to climb for success. What I do not like is blaming Trump for all the sins of this country and the world, blaming Jews and Israel for the same sins and the Leftists PC culture.

I did not leave the Democrat party, they left me. I am and always will be an Independent but it’s tough to support a party that openly votes in antisemites like Tlaib and Omar and who tells me that men may identify as women and play sports vs my daughters.

Informative. Libertarian?

Maybe? I generally Vote for the candidates who are pro business and pro military. I just find it illogical that people can state with a straight face that biological boys who identify as girls should be allowed to play contact sports vs my kids and I am not allowed to say anything. That is nuts.

 

[Leo123]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

No it is not 'unproven' doctors are reporting that most cases are cured with it with no side affects. It is more correct to say it is not FDA approved specifically for treatment of the Coronavirus however the FDA did approve it for off label use. It won't be officially 'approved' until FDA mandated double-blind testing is done. As usual, the Devil is in the details here, some want to blame Trump for pushing an 'unapproved' drug but that is only a half truth and, as usual, the TDSers gloom onto that like flies on shit.

Unproven is accurate because what we have are anecdotal claims. Since it's harmless, I see no issue with it. But pushing an unproven drug OVER the statements of medical professionals, is not a good idea.

Is Trump a doctor now?

OK.. I see.. This is all about Trump... Good luck with that...

I'm uncomfortable with politicians touting medicine and going against medical professionals. Trump is the first I've known to do that.

Sorry for coming at you for this -- but it's old and tiresome.. If Trump DEMANDED that people don't blow thru stop signs, all the TDS'ers would be doing it.. You are SO consumed by the politics, that you won't do the defensive thing to save your life or others..

Lemme explain...

Ya know what ELSE IS UNPROVEN??? This entire govt bureaucratic RESPONSE to COVID is "unproven".. Based on modeling that is FAILING so badly, that the modelers have to REVISE their estimates on ALMOST a daily basis.. WHY? Because the MODELS are "educated guesses".. NOT scientific facts.. But that didn't stop the media from grabbing at the WORST CASE NUMBERS and playing on the public fears...

I've done a lot of modeling in more than 4 or 5 different disciplines.. And if you have to REVISE your models constantly, they have very little "predictive value"... Means (in terms of HCQuine) that their "efficacy" SUCKS...

And YET -- we've done a sedation of the entire country, made governors pee their pants over the models.. Financially put 10s of Million at economic risk, because of "unproven" models..

Not JUST the models for deaths and spread... The CDC IS GUESSING at a mortality rate by ESTIMATING the the #infections = (ABOUT) #reported X 2... RIGHT NOW -- there is vibrant scientific debate that the factor of 2 might be more like 10 or even 40... It's NOT "proven" and it's NOT settled science...

But you're here pushing this HCQuine cart UPHILL in a blizzard because you HATE Trump for offering that hope.. That's your burden sis.. But you're SERIOUSLY being selective about what is scientific proof and missing the entire AD HOC nature of the guessing that we're exploring right now as a nation...

Edit... THe OTHER unproven science is the whole EXPERIMENT of "social distancing".. Which is WHY the models FAILED in the 1st place... If you could suppress the TDS long enough to WATCH Dr. Birx at a WH press opportunity yesterday -- SHE ADMITTED that the entire "social distancing" experiment was PURELY ACADEMIC prior to this event.. If we had MEASUREMENTS of efficacy for it -- the models would have SOME predictive ability...

In short -- EVERYONE in charge is "winging itt" if you DEMAND rigid scientific PROOF

No shit sister.

Maybe you should give your own TDS (Trump Defense Syndrome) a rest here Instead of blaming any and all criticism of Trump as “hate”. Geez...you could only come up with one thing you thought he did wrong for God sakes and you accuse me of TDS? No wonder his supporters refuse to hold him accountable. EVER.

My objection is that I am pretty skeptical miracles touted by snake oil salesmen when they are not supported by good data. And, if it leads to dangerous behavior because people believe a dose of quinine will fix it.

And of course there are a lot of unknowns in dealing with this pandemic, who is arguing that? We have never been through this before. I certainly don’t envy the President and state governors in trying to make the determination between public health risks and jobs/economy.

Don’t ever get tired of blaming everything on the Dems? Is that your own version of TDS? Defend Trump at all costs?

Huh? You’re kidding, right?

About what?

I have Said 100x on this board how I wish he would attack the deficit and our healthcare system and now we see what can happen when you don’t. We are spending way more and our hospital system is in Chaos. I also criticized him for dealing too much with China and not pushing for newer supply chains.

That is true, I wouldn’t call you a Trumpist, just a conservative.

I am less a conservative and more an anti Leftist. I am Pro Choice, don’t care who married whom and generally believe we should help those with rougher ladders to climb for success. What I do not like is blaming Trump for all the sins of this country and the world, blaming Jews and Israel for the same sins and the Leftists PC culture.

I did not leave the Democrat party, they left me. I am and always will be an Independent but it’s tough to support a party that openly votes in antisemites like Tlaib and Omar and who tells me that men may identify as women and play sports vs my daughters.

Informative. Libertarian?

Maybe? I generally Vote for the candidates who are pro business and pro military. I just find it illogical that people can state with a straight face that biological boys who identify as girls should be allowed to play contact sports vs my kids and I am not allowed to say anything. That is nuts.

At this point, Republicans are closer to Libertarians than the Democrat party.

 

[Marion Morrison]

IMO, taking/accepting blame is not one of Trump's strong suits.

There's a shit-ton of false blame thrown at him daily like monkey-poo though.

I'm happy with the job he's doing as president.

 

[Coyote]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

No it is not 'unproven' doctors are reporting that most cases are cured with it with no side affects. It is more correct to say it is not FDA approved specifically for treatment of the Coronavirus however the FDA did approve it for off label use. It won't be officially 'approved' until FDA mandated double-blind testing is done. As usual, the Devil is in the details here, some want to blame Trump for pushing an 'unapproved' drug but that is only a half truth and, as usual, the TDSers gloom onto that like flies on shit.

Unproven is accurate because what we have are anecdotal claims. Since it's harmless, I see no issue with it. But pushing an unproven drug OVER the statements of medical professionals, is not a good idea.

Is Trump a doctor now?

OK.. I see.. This is all about Trump... Good luck with that...

I'm uncomfortable with politicians touting medicine and going against medical professionals. Trump is the first I've known to do that.

Sorry for coming at you for this -- but it's old and tiresome.. If Trump DEMANDED that people don't blow thru stop signs, all the TDS'ers would be doing it.. You are SO consumed by the politics, that you won't do the defensive thing to save your life or others..

Lemme explain...

Ya know what ELSE IS UNPROVEN??? This entire govt bureaucratic RESPONSE to COVID is "unproven".. Based on modeling that is FAILING so badly, that the modelers have to REVISE their estimates on ALMOST a daily basis.. WHY? Because the MODELS are "educated guesses".. NOT scientific facts.. But that didn't stop the media from grabbing at the WORST CASE NUMBERS and playing on the public fears...

I've done a lot of modeling in more than 4 or 5 different disciplines.. And if you have to REVISE your models constantly, they have very little "predictive value"... Means (in terms of HCQuine) that their "efficacy" SUCKS...

And YET -- we've done a sedation of the entire country, made governors pee their pants over the models.. Financially put 10s of Million at economic risk, because of "unproven" models..

Not JUST the models for deaths and spread... The CDC IS GUESSING at a mortality rate by ESTIMATING the the #infections = (ABOUT) #reported X 2... RIGHT NOW -- there is vibrant scientific debate that the factor of 2 might be more like 10 or even 40... It's NOT "proven" and it's NOT settled science...

But you're here pushing this HCQuine cart UPHILL in a blizzard because you HATE Trump for offering that hope.. That's your burden sis.. But you're SERIOUSLY being selective about what is scientific proof and missing the entire AD HOC nature of the guessing that we're exploring right now as a nation...

Edit... THe OTHER unproven science is the whole EXPERIMENT of "social distancing".. Which is WHY the models FAILED in the 1st place... If you could suppress the TDS long enough to WATCH Dr. Birx at a WH press opportunity yesterday -- SHE ADMITTED that the entire "social distancing" experiment was PURELY ACADEMIC prior to this event.. If we had MEASUREMENTS of efficacy for it -- the models would have SOME predictive ability...

In short -- EVERYONE in charge is "winging itt" if you DEMAND rigid scientific PROOF

No shit sister.

Maybe you should give your own TDS (Trump Defense Syndrome) a rest here Instead of blaming any and all criticism of Trump as “hate”. Geez...you could only come up with one thing you thought he did wrong for God sakes and you accuse me of TDS? No wonder his supporters refuse to hold him accountable. EVER.

My objection is that I am pretty skeptical miracles touted by snake oil salesmen when they are not supported by good data. And, if it leads to dangerous behavior because people believe a dose of quinine will fix it.

And of course there are a lot of unknowns in dealing with this pandemic, who is arguing that? We have never been through this before. I certainly don’t envy the President and state governors in trying to make the determination between public health risks and jobs/economy.

Don’t ever get tired of blaming everything on the Dems? Is that your own version of TDS? Defend Trump at all costs?

Huh? You’re kidding, right?

About what?

I have Said 100x on this board how I wish he would attack the deficit and our healthcare system and now we see what can happen when you don’t. We are spending way more and our hospital system is in Chaos. I also criticized him for dealing too much with China and not pushing for newer supply chains.

That is true, I wouldn’t call you a Trumpist, just a conservative.

I am less a conservative and more an anti Leftist. I am Pro Choice, don’t care who married whom and generally believe we should help those with rougher ladders to climb for success. What I do not like is blaming Trump for all the sins of this country and the world, blaming Jews and Israel for the same sins and the Leftists PC culture.

I did not leave the Democrat party, they left me. I am and always will be an Independent but it’s tough to support a party that openly votes in antisemites like Tlaib and Omar and who tells me that men may identify as women and play sports vs my daughters.

Informative. Libertarian?

Maybe? I generally Vote for the candidates who are pro business and pro military. I just find it illogical that people can state with a straight face that biological boys who identify as girls should be allowed to play contact sports vs my kids and I am not allowed to say anything. That is nuts.

Ya, I agree with you on that. However one falls on the issue of what an individual identifies as, there are inherent biological differences associated with the x and Y chromosomes that remain regardless of what that individual does. For a biological male to compete as a female is grossly unfair. I am, obviously to the left, but not as far left as you might think. I am not happy with the growing extreme progressive wing of the Democrats. Both parties are killing the moderates. I choose candidates based on how they align with my issues. For me that would be environment/climate change, preserving pro-choice, strong safetynet, and, while not exactly a position, fighting to recognize the dignity and value of every human being. I support family friendly policies, like flexible work arrangements and paid sick leave. Fiscally though, I am troubled by what is happening. The Dems are always social spenders and and the Republicans the fiscal hawks. We need both at the right times and they serve to balance out each other’s excesses. But not now. The Republicans seem to have abandoned this over the past few years. We are heading into some serious trouble when we get out of the virus. I am actually an independent, have been for years. But with the Republicans to the far right and Dems moving far left...what is there to vote for?

 

[Olde Europe]

I'm uncomfortable with politicians touting medicine and going against medical professionals. Trump is the first I've known to do that.

Sorry for coming at you for this -- but it's old and tiresome.. If Trump DEMANDED that people don't blow thru stop signs, all the TDS'ers would be doing it.. You are SO consumed by the politics, that you won't do the defensive thing to save your life or others..

Lemme explain...

Ya know what ELSE IS UNPROVEN??? This entire govt bureaucratic RESPONSE to COVID is "unproven".. Based on modeling that is FAILING so badly, that the modelers have to REVISE their estimates on ALMOST a daily basis.. WHY? Because the MODELS are "educated guesses".. NOT scientific facts.. But that didn't stop the media from grabbing at the WORST CASE NUMBERS and playing on the public fears...

I've done a lot of modeling in more than 4 or 5 different disciplines.. And if you have to REVISE your models constantly, they have very little "predictive value"... Means (in terms of HCQuine) that their "efficacy" SUCKS...

And YET -- we've done a sedation of the entire country, made governors pee their pants over the models.. Financially put 10s of Million at economic risk, because of "unproven" models..

Not JUST the models for deaths and spread... The CDC IS GUESSING at a mortality rate by ESTIMATING the the #infections = (ABOUT) #reported X 2... RIGHT NOW -- there is vibrant scientific debate that the factor of 2 might be more like 10 or even 40... It's NOT "proven" and it's NOT settled science...

But you're here pushing this HCQuine cart UPHILL in a blizzard because you HATE Trump for offering that hope.. That's your burden sis.. But you're SERIOUSLY being selective about what is scientific proof and missing the entire AD HOC nature of the guessing that we're exploring right now as a nation...

Edit... THe OTHER unproven science is the whole EXPERIMENT of "social distancing".. Which is WHY the models FAILED in the 1st place... If you could suppress the TDS long enough to WATCH Dr. Birx at a WH press opportunity yesterday -- SHE ADMITTED that the entire "social distancing" experiment was PURELY ACADEMIC prior to this event.. If we had MEASUREMENTS of efficacy for it -- the models would have SOME predictive ability...

In short -- EVERYONE in charge is "winging itt" if you DEMAND rigid scientific PROOF

No shit sister.

There is so much utter, smelly bullshit in the above, it would take a week, at least, to shovel it aside. So, let's just pick a few turds:

No one this side of complete insanity, and with at least a lick of sense, would confuse a model with a "scientific" fact. A model is just a complex set of causations, or rather, in this case, statistical correlations put into action in order to determine more or less likely outcomes of an ongoing development - that is to say, a hypothesis. These models are almost by definition inaccurate in case the results are impacted by FUTURE human behavior and political decisions, by, like, governors imposing more or less strict "stay at home orders" - including a set of goofs right out of Rightardia in red states - where science is a four-letter word. This is even more so since the underlying dataset is rather small, and the virus is so new as to be basically unknown.

The alternative to the models is rule of thumb. Or, how the Orange goof feels about his hair on any given day. Holding against the modelers their willingness to adjust the models as more data is coming in is benighted. Only a fool or an orthodox bigot doesn't change in the face of new data.

No, Dr. Birx did not call social distancing "academic". The only thing academic about it was the portion of the citizenry who would adhere to the advisory, since it hasn't been tried since 1917. It's efficiency, if widely and consistently implemented, is common sense. There is even data, though limited, from the Spanish flue that it works, and that the result is catastrophic if social distancing is terminated too soon.

Also, while there is uncertainty about modeling a future in order to try to figure out the resources necessary to counter a developing public health threat, the scientific procedures to demonstrate a new medication, or an old medication applied to a new pathogen, is another thing entirely. Likening the two betrays staggering scientific illiteracy. The principled, scientific stand that proven and tested procedures be followed - so as to protect patients against the anti-scientific quackery or snake-oil salesmen - is the only reasoned stance here. Insisting proven, scientific procedures be followed is exactly not "winging it." Listening to a conman and snake-oil salesman is. It's also benighted. As is decrying the advocacy in favor of the scientific method as a symptom of "TDS". For pity's sake!

 

[toobfreak]

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Wow. Score another win for rampant, uncontrollable, mindless TDS! When all else fails, life on Earth could be ending, whatever you do, try to blame it on and vent your TDS.

 

[Marion Morrison]

I'm uncomfortable with politicians touting medicine and going against medical professionals. Trump is the first I've known to do that.

Sorry for coming at you for this -- but it's old and tiresome.. If Trump DEMANDED that people don't blow thru stop signs, all the TDS'ers would be doing it.. You are SO consumed by the politics, that you won't do the defensive thing to save your life or others..

Lemme explain...

Ya know what ELSE IS UNPROVEN??? This entire govt bureaucratic RESPONSE to COVID is "unproven".. Based on modeling that is FAILING so badly, that the modelers have to REVISE their estimates on ALMOST a daily basis.. WHY? Because the MODELS are "educated guesses".. NOT scientific facts.. But that didn't stop the media from grabbing at the WORST CASE NUMBERS and playing on the public fears...

I've done a lot of modeling in more than 4 or 5 different disciplines.. And if you have to REVISE your models constantly, they have very little "predictive value"... Means (in terms of HCQuine) that their "efficacy" SUCKS...

And YET -- we've done a sedation of the entire country, made governors pee their pants over the models.. Financially put 10s of Million at economic risk, because of "unproven" models..

Not JUST the models for deaths and spread... The CDC IS GUESSING at a mortality rate by ESTIMATING the the #infections = (ABOUT) #reported X 2... RIGHT NOW -- there is vibrant scientific debate that the factor of 2 might be more like 10 or even 40... It's NOT "proven" and it's NOT settled science...

But you're here pushing this HCQuine cart UPHILL in a blizzard because you HATE Trump for offering that hope.. That's your burden sis.. But you're SERIOUSLY being selective about what is scientific proof and missing the entire AD HOC nature of the guessing that we're exploring right now as a nation...

Edit... THe OTHER unproven science is the whole EXPERIMENT of "social distancing".. Which is WHY the models FAILED in the 1st place... If you could suppress the TDS long enough to WATCH Dr. Birx at a WH press opportunity yesterday -- SHE ADMITTED that the entire "social distancing" experiment was PURELY ACADEMIC prior to this event.. If we had MEASUREMENTS of efficacy for it -- the models would have SOME predictive ability...

In short -- EVERYONE in charge is "winging itt" if you DEMAND rigid scientific PROOF

No shit sister.

There is so much utter, smelly bullshit in the above, it would take a week, at least, to shovel it aside. So, let's just pick a few turds:

No one this side of complete insanity, and with at least a lick of sense, would confuse a model with a "scientific" fact. A model is just a complex set of causations, or rather, in this case, statistical correlations put into action in order to determine more or less likely outcomes of an ongoing development - that is to say, a hypothesis. These models are almost by definition inaccurate in case the results are impacted by FUTURE human behavior and political decisions, by, like, governors imposing more or less strict "stay at home orders" - including a set of goofs right out of Rightardia in red states - where science is a four-letter word. This is even more so since the underlying dataset is rather small, and the virus is so new as to be basically unknown.

The alternative to the models is rule of thumb. Or, how the Orange goof feels about his hair on any given day. Holding against the modelers their willingness to adjust the models as more data is coming in is benighted. Only a fool or an orthodox bigot doesn't change in the face of new data.

No, Dr. Birx did not call social distancing "academic". The only thing academic about it was the portion of the citizenry who would adhere to the advisory, since it hasn't been tried since 1917. It's efficiency, if widely and consistently implemented, is common sense. There is even data, though limited, from the Spanish flue that it works, and that the result is catastrophic if social distancing is terminated too soon.

Also, while there is uncertainty about modeling a future in order to try to figure out the resources necessary to counter a developing public health threat, the scientific procedures to demonstrate a new medication, or an old medication applied to a new pathogen, is another thing entirely. Likening the two betrays staggering scientific illiteracy. The principled, scientific stand that proven and tested procedures be followed - so as to protect patients against the anti-scientific quackery or snake-oil salesmen - is the only reasoned stance here. Insisting proven, scientific procedures be followed is exactly not "winging it." Listening to a conman and snake-oil salesman is. It's also benighted. As is decrying the advocacy in favor of the scientific method as a symptom of "TDS". For pity's sake!

To break that down: "Listen to the science and let the world burn to ashes", amirite? You leftist POS?
Fuck all people, listen to the science. Ignore your neighbor starving and getting evicted over there.
These are the rules of the Gestapo leftists.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

No it is not 'unproven' doctors are reporting that most cases are cured with it with no side affects. It is more correct to say it is not FDA approved specifically for treatment of the Coronavirus however the FDA did approve it for off label use. It won't be officially 'approved' until FDA mandated double-blind testing is done. As usual, the Devil is in the details here, some want to blame Trump for pushing an 'unapproved' drug but that is only a half truth and, as usual, the TDSers gloom onto that like flies on shit.

Unproven is accurate because what we have are anecdotal claims. Since it's harmless, I see no issue with it. But pushing an unproven drug OVER the statements of medical professionals, is not a good idea.

Is Trump a doctor now?

OK.. I see.. This is all about Trump... Good luck with that...

I'm uncomfortable with politicians touting medicine and going against medical professionals. Trump is the first I've known to do that.

Sorry for coming at you for this -- but it's old and tiresome.. If Trump DEMANDED that people don't blow thru stop signs, all the TDS'ers would be doing it.. You are SO consumed by the politics, that you won't do the defensive thing to save your life or others..

Lemme explain...

Ya know what ELSE IS UNPROVEN??? This entire govt bureaucratic RESPONSE to COVID is "unproven".. Based on modeling that is FAILING so badly, that the modelers have to REVISE their estimates on ALMOST a daily basis.. WHY? Because the MODELS are "educated guesses".. NOT scientific facts.. But that didn't stop the media from grabbing at the WORST CASE NUMBERS and playing on the public fears...

I've done a lot of modeling in more than 4 or 5 different disciplines.. And if you have to REVISE your models constantly, they have very little "predictive value"... Means (in terms of HCQuine) that their "efficacy" SUCKS...

And YET -- we've done a sedation of the entire country, made governors pee their pants over the models.. Financially put 10s of Million at economic risk, because of "unproven" models..

Not JUST the models for deaths and spread... The CDC IS GUESSING at a mortality rate by ESTIMATING the the #infections = (ABOUT) #reported X 2... RIGHT NOW -- there is vibrant scientific debate that the factor of 2 might be more like 10 or even 40... It's NOT "proven" and it's NOT settled science...

But you're here pushing this HCQuine cart UPHILL in a blizzard because you HATE Trump for offering that hope.. That's your burden sis.. But you're SERIOUSLY being selective about what is scientific proof and missing the entire AD HOC nature of the guessing that we're exploring right now as a nation...

Edit... THe OTHER unproven science is the whole EXPERIMENT of "social distancing".. Which is WHY the models FAILED in the 1st place... If you could suppress the TDS long enough to WATCH Dr. Birx at a WH press opportunity yesterday -- SHE ADMITTED that the entire "social distancing" experiment was PURELY ACADEMIC prior to this event.. If we had MEASUREMENTS of efficacy for it -- the models would have SOME predictive ability...

In short -- EVERYONE in charge is "winging itt" if you DEMAND rigid scientific PROOF

No shit sister.

Maybe you should give your own TDS (Trump Defense Syndrome) a rest here Instead of blaming any and all criticism of Trump as “hate”. Geez...you could only come up with one thing you thought he did wrong for God sakes and you accuse me of TDS? No wonder his supporters refuse to hold him accountable. EVER.

My objection is that I am pretty skeptical miracles touted by snake oil salesmen when they are not supported by good data. And, if it leads to dangerous behavior because people believe a dose of quinine will fix it.

And of course there are a lot of unknowns in dealing with this pandemic, who is arguing that? We have never been through this before. I certainly don’t envy the President and state governors in trying to make the determination between public health risks and jobs/economy.

Don’t ever get tired of blaming everything on the Dems? Is that your own version of TDS? Defend Trump at all costs?

Huh? You’re kidding, right?

About what?

I have Said 100x on this board how I wish he would attack the deficit and our healthcare system and now we see what can happen when you don’t. We are spending way more and our hospital system is in Chaos. I also criticized him for dealing too much with China and not pushing for newer supply chains.

That is true, I wouldn’t call you a Trumpist, just a conservative.

I am less a conservative and more an anti Leftist. I am Pro Choice, don’t care who married whom and generally believe we should help those with rougher ladders to climb for success. What I do not like is blaming Trump for all the sins of this country and the world, blaming Jews and Israel for the same sins and the Leftists PC culture.

I did not leave the Democrat party, they left me. I am and always will be an Independent but it’s tough to support a party that openly votes in antisemites like Tlaib and Omar and who tells me that men may identify as women and play sports vs my daughters.

Informative. Libertarian?

Maybe? I generally Vote for the candidates who are pro business and pro military. I just find it illogical that people can state with a straight face that biological boys who identify as girls should be allowed to play contact sports vs my kids and I am not allowed to say anything. That is nuts.

Ya, I agree with you on that. However one falls on the issue of what an individual identifies as, there are inherent biological differences associated with the x and Y chromosomes that remain regardless of what that individual does. For a biological male to compete as a female is grossly unfair. I am, obviously to the left, but not as far left as you might think. I am not happy with the growing extreme progressive wing of the Democrats. Both parties are killing the moderates. I choose candidates based on how they align with my issues. For me that would be environment/climate change, preserving pro-choice, strong safetynet, and, while not exactly a position, fighting to recognize the dignity and value of every human being. I support family friendly policies, like flexible work arrangements and paid sick leave. Fiscally though, I am troubled by what is happening. The Dems are always social spenders and and the Republicans the fiscal hawks. We need both at the right times and they serve to balance out each other’s excesses. But not now. The Republicans seem to have abandoned this over the past few years. We are heading into some serious trouble when we get out of the virus. I am actually an independent, have been for years. But with the Republicans to the far right and Dems moving far left...what is there to vote for?

That is one excellent post. Bravo!!! What have you done with the real Coyote? The one that battles me on here constantly?

 

[Coyote]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

Taking responsibility for a lie created by the media isn't part of being a good leader.

Are you saying all his bad policy rollouts ad outcomes are lies created by media?

You might have to list them because I don't think anything he's rolled out is bad....maybe bad for Anti-American Democrats who side against their own country in favor of China and Russia....but not bad for me.

Post 265 of this thread. And - it's not about the policies themselves (obviously we will disagree there) - it's about how they were rolled out and implemented that was badly done.

Anyone can be critical by being an armchair QB.
Try making suggestions on how to improve on something everyone seems to have been surprised by....including House Democrats who were busy impeaching Trump even though many of them had already been briefed on the virus.

Sure...but let's see....when did you ever do that? You had no problem being critical of Obama without offering improvements so that doesn't wash.

Clinton was able to work, and was handling the crisis in Kosovo during his impeachment. That is no excuse.

In addition, both examples I provided of badly done rollouts and policies were prior to impeachment. Do you have anything to say related to those examples?

Clinton had a problem with going overseas and throwing his weight around. I was deployed to Somalia when he took over the operation. In no time it quickly turned to shit. Instead of a peace-keeping mission, it turned into a armed forces expeditionary mission....a hunt for a warlord. Bill Clinton helped assassinate dozens of tribal leaders when they were trying to sue for peace. So the place turned into a Hornet's nest for us. When I first got there we could walk down the street unmolested , but after Bill Clinton...we had to wear armored vests and travel in tactical formation. We discovered why every other country sent their troops with fully armored APCs....and we were the only ones driving around in un-armored vehicles.

When it comes to Obama....we can all agree his roll-out of Obamacare was a total disaster. My suggestion to him would be not to fuck with the system that was working....but he was trying to take over 2/3rds of the economy through Single-payer health care. We can both admit Obama was a socialist but was afraid of it getting out. The issues I had with him are too numerous to list....and not one of them had to do with the color of his skin.

Lets take that one. I agree with you on that.

Now fast forward to the current administration. How did the roll out of Trump’s “Muslim ban” go?

It wasn't a Muslim ban.....it was a ban of people from specific regions that posed a threat to the US.

Aren't you wishing the Dems had listened to him about stopping some of these disease carrying illegals now?
Some think alot of this virus came into the US during those caravans from Central America. I also think this isn't the first flare-up. Senior citizens have been dying in greater numbers the last 3 winters.....most of them from lung infections. I think this is the 3rd cycle of the coronavirus.

MN Sen. Dr. says reported coronavirus deaths may be off

Minnesota Senator and Doctor Scott Jensen say he received a seven-page document from the Minnesota Department of Health on how doctors should go about filling out a cause of death certificate.

www.valleynewslive.com

I am questioning the stats for sure

Wrong thread dude this isn't about the corona virus.

I am saying he does take responsibility. He is the most open President we have ever had. With his tweets and constant press conferences.

That is not taking responsibility.

When has he ever taken responsibility for something? (ie not credit for).

I think that 100% is. He took responsibility for a better economy? Do you mean negative responsibility? If Trump says Hydrox doesn’t work and needs more research the press would call it a miracle drug and that it works great. Cannot trust our press at all these days. Trump doesn’t bash himself. I agree. The press does enough for him.

Taking responsibility is not the same as taking credit. Taking responsibility for policies or actions that did not go well.

Has he ever?

Yes. When he fires people that he hired that didn’t work out. LOL. Admitting defeat or error is not who he is. I ll Give you that. Most CEOs are like that too. Ever see Jeff Bezos or Jamie Dimon admit they are wrong?

So essentially what you are saying is taking responsibility for mistakes is "not who he is" - in other words, he does not take responsibility.

He does but not for adverse actions or what some perceive to be adverse actions. He took responsibility for our deficit and was frustrated with it for example.

Where did he take responsibility for the deficit?

During his Town Hall on Fox News.

This Town Hall?

Trump blames Obama for federal debt and leaves entitlement-program cuts shrouded in doubt

Reminded at the Fox News town hall this week in Scranton, Pa., that he likely can’t reduce the debt without cutting entitlement programs, like Social...

www.marketwatch.com

Yeah. Did you watch it. He said he was disappointed he could not get the surplus but he took over a bad situation. He still took responsibility for not achieving the surplus and explained why he didn’t. Did you actually watch it? If not, do so.

So...he took responsibility by blaming his predecessor.

He took responsibility for promising to do something he didn’t do and explained why he could not do it. What would you call it?

How is blaming your predecessor taking responsibility? Never heard that being called "taking responsibility" before.

He said and I paraphrase: lt is disappointing and we need to do better but the military was just in such bad shape that we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let go.

To me it is taking responsibility. I agree that the prior administration didn’t prioritize the military. Did you watch the Town Hall?

How is that taking responsibility? He is giving an explanation - and, making an excuse.

He was explaining how he took responsibility. "we needed to spend more to get back to where it needed to be because the last administration really let it go." But we know it doesn't matter what he does TDSers will still find a reason to hate him and anyone who voted for him. Buncha children.

How is that taking responsibility for the current situation?

In what way is it Trump's responsibility when Democrats all over the country have tried to sabotage everything he does to protect us from the coronavirus?

How, specifically, have they tried to sabotage him in regards to Covid19 policies?

By stating he should have started the social distancing sooner and that Hydrox doesn't work when it does.

Hydrox is unproven and it's not just Democrats who didn't sign on to it. It's fine to use - but it's also fair to say it's unproven. How is saying social distancing should have started earlier (which is true, but up to individual states and municipal areas, not the president) and is a criticism levied by both parties - sabotaging him?

No it is not 'unproven' doctors are reporting that most cases are cured with it with no side affects. It is more correct to say it is not FDA approved specifically for treatment of the Coronavirus however the FDA did approve it for off label use. It won't be officially 'approved' until FDA mandated double-blind testing is done. As usual, the Devil is in the details here, some want to blame Trump for pushing an 'unapproved' drug but that is only a half truth and, as usual, the TDSers gloom onto that like flies on shit.

Unproven is accurate because what we have are anecdotal claims. Since it's harmless, I see no issue with it. But pushing an unproven drug OVER the statements of medical professionals, is not a good idea.

Is Trump a doctor now?

OK.. I see.. This is all about Trump... Good luck with that...

I'm uncomfortable with politicians touting medicine and going against medical professionals. Trump is the first I've known to do that.

Sorry for coming at you for this -- but it's old and tiresome.. If Trump DEMANDED that people don't blow thru stop signs, all the TDS'ers would be doing it.. You are SO consumed by the politics, that you won't do the defensive thing to save your life or others..

Lemme explain...

Ya know what ELSE IS UNPROVEN??? This entire govt bureaucratic RESPONSE to COVID is "unproven".. Based on modeling that is FAILING so badly, that the modelers have to REVISE their estimates on ALMOST a daily basis.. WHY? Because the MODELS are "educated guesses".. NOT scientific facts.. But that didn't stop the media from grabbing at the WORST CASE NUMBERS and playing on the public fears...

I've done a lot of modeling in more than 4 or 5 different disciplines.. And if you have to REVISE your models constantly, they have very little "predictive value"... Means (in terms of HCQuine) that their "efficacy" SUCKS...

And YET -- we've done a sedation of the entire country, made governors pee their pants over the models.. Financially put 10s of Million at economic risk, because of "unproven" models..

Not JUST the models for deaths and spread... The CDC IS GUESSING at a mortality rate by ESTIMATING the the #infections = (ABOUT) #reported X 2... RIGHT NOW -- there is vibrant scientific debate that the factor of 2 might be more like 10 or even 40... It's NOT "proven" and it's NOT settled science...

But you're here pushing this HCQuine cart UPHILL in a blizzard because you HATE Trump for offering that hope.. That's your burden sis.. But you're SERIOUSLY being selective about what is scientific proof and missing the entire AD HOC nature of the guessing that we're exploring right now as a nation...

Edit... THe OTHER unproven science is the whole EXPERIMENT of "social distancing".. Which is WHY the models FAILED in the 1st place... If you could suppress the TDS long enough to WATCH Dr. Birx at a WH press opportunity yesterday -- SHE ADMITTED that the entire "social distancing" experiment was PURELY ACADEMIC prior to this event.. If we had MEASUREMENTS of efficacy for it -- the models would have SOME predictive ability...

In short -- EVERYONE in charge is "winging itt" if you DEMAND rigid scientific PROOF

No shit sister.

Maybe you should give your own TDS (Trump Defense Syndrome) a rest here Instead of blaming any and all criticism of Trump as “hate”. Geez...you could only come up with one thing you thought he did wrong for God sakes and you accuse me of TDS? No wonder his supporters refuse to hold him accountable. EVER.

My objection is that I am pretty skeptical miracles touted by snake oil salesmen when they are not supported by good data. And, if it leads to dangerous behavior because people believe a dose of quinine will fix it.

And of course there are a lot of unknowns in dealing with this pandemic, who is arguing that? We have never been through this before. I certainly don’t envy the President and state governors in trying to make the determination between public health risks and jobs/economy.

Don’t ever get tired of blaming everything on the Dems? Is that your own version of TDS? Defend Trump at all costs?

Huh? You’re kidding, right?

About what?

I have Said 100x on this board how I wish he would attack the deficit and our healthcare system and now we see what can happen when you don’t. We are spending way more and our hospital system is in Chaos. I also criticized him for dealing too much with China and not pushing for newer supply chains.

That is true, I wouldn’t call you a Trumpist, just a conservative.

I am less a conservative and more an anti Leftist. I am Pro Choice, don’t care who married whom and generally believe we should help those with rougher ladders to climb for success. What I do not like is blaming Trump for all the sins of this country and the world, blaming Jews and Israel for the same sins and the Leftists PC culture.

I did not leave the Democrat party, they left me. I am and always will be an Independent but it’s tough to support a party that openly votes in antisemites like Tlaib and Omar and who tells me that men may identify as women and play sports vs my daughters.

Informative. Libertarian?

Maybe? I generally Vote for the candidates who are pro business and pro military. I just find it illogical that people can state with a straight face that biological boys who identify as girls should be allowed to play contact sports vs my kids and I am not allowed to say anything. That is nuts.

Ya, I agree with you on that. However one falls on the issue of what an individual identifies as, there are inherent biological differences associated with the x and Y chromosomes that remain regardless of what that individual does. For a biological male to compete as a female is grossly unfair. I am, obviously to the left, but not as far left as you might think. I am not happy with the growing extreme progressive wing of the Democrats. Both parties are killing the moderates. I choose candidates based on how they align with my issues. For me that would be environment/climate change, preserving pro-choice, strong safetynet, and, while not exactly a position, fighting to recognize the dignity and value of every human being. I support family friendly policies, like flexible work arrangements and paid sick leave. Fiscally though, I am troubled by what is happening. The Dems are always social spenders and and the Republicans the fiscal hawks. We need both at the right times and they serve to balance out each other’s excesses. But not now. The Republicans seem to have abandoned this over the past few years. We are heading into some serious trouble when we get out of the virus. I am actually an independent, have been for years. But with the Republicans to the far right and Dems moving far left...what is there to vote for?

That is one excellent post. Bravo!!! What have you done with the real Coyote? The one that battles me on here constantly?

Thank you. I have a temper.

 

[Coyote]

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Wow. Score another win for rampant, uncontrollable, mindless TDS! When all else fails, life on Earth could be ending, whatever you do, try to blame it on and vent your TDS.

View attachment 321287View attachment 321288View attachment 321286

So...can you actually answer any of the questions brought up? Or is this the sum and total of your cognitive abilities?

 

[Leo123]

I'm uncomfortable with politicians touting medicine and going against medical professionals. Trump is the first I've known to do that.

Sorry for coming at you for this -- but it's old and tiresome.. If Trump DEMANDED that people don't blow thru stop signs, all the TDS'ers would be doing it.. You are SO consumed by the politics, that you won't do the defensive thing to save your life or others..

Lemme explain...

Ya know what ELSE IS UNPROVEN??? This entire govt bureaucratic RESPONSE to COVID is "unproven".. Based on modeling that is FAILING so badly, that the modelers have to REVISE their estimates on ALMOST a daily basis.. WHY? Because the MODELS are "educated guesses".. NOT scientific facts.. But that didn't stop the media from grabbing at the WORST CASE NUMBERS and playing on the public fears...

I've done a lot of modeling in more than 4 or 5 different disciplines.. And if you have to REVISE your models constantly, they have very little "predictive value"... Means (in terms of HCQuine) that their "efficacy" SUCKS...

And YET -- we've done a sedation of the entire country, made governors pee their pants over the models.. Financially put 10s of Million at economic risk, because of "unproven" models..

Not JUST the models for deaths and spread... The CDC IS GUESSING at a mortality rate by ESTIMATING the the #infections = (ABOUT) #reported X 2... RIGHT NOW -- there is vibrant scientific debate that the factor of 2 might be more like 10 or even 40... It's NOT "proven" and it's NOT settled science...

But you're here pushing this HCQuine cart UPHILL in a blizzard because you HATE Trump for offering that hope.. That's your burden sis.. But you're SERIOUSLY being selective about what is scientific proof and missing the entire AD HOC nature of the guessing that we're exploring right now as a nation...

Edit... THe OTHER unproven science is the whole EXPERIMENT of "social distancing".. Which is WHY the models FAILED in the 1st place... If you could suppress the TDS long enough to WATCH Dr. Birx at a WH press opportunity yesterday -- SHE ADMITTED that the entire "social distancing" experiment was PURELY ACADEMIC prior to this event.. If we had MEASUREMENTS of efficacy for it -- the models would have SOME predictive ability...

In short -- EVERYONE in charge is "winging itt" if you DEMAND rigid scientific PROOF

No shit sister.

There is so much utter, smelly bullshit in the above, it would take a week, at least, to shovel it aside. So, let's just pick a few turds:

No one this side of complete insanity, and with at least a lick of sense, would confuse a model with a "scientific" fact. A model is just a complex set of causations, or rather, in this case, statistical correlations put into action in order to determine more or less likely outcomes of an ongoing development - that is to say, a hypothesis. These models are almost by definition inaccurate in case the results are impacted by FUTURE human behavior and political decisions, by, like, governors imposing more or less strict "stay at home orders" - including a set of goofs right out of Rightardia in red states - where science is a four-letter word. This is even more so since the underlying dataset is rather small, and the virus is so new as to be basically unknown.

The alternative to the models is rule of thumb. Or, how the Orange goof feels about his hair on any given day. Holding against the modelers their willingness to adjust the models as more data is coming in is benighted. Only a fool or an orthodox bigot doesn't change in the face of new data.

No, Dr. Birx did not call social distancing "academic". The only thing academic about it was the portion of the citizenry who would adhere to the advisory, since it hasn't been tried since 1917. It's efficiency, if widely and consistently implemented, is common sense. There is even data, though limited, from the Spanish flue that it works, and that the result is catastrophic if social distancing is terminated too soon.

Also, while there is uncertainty about modeling a future in order to try to figure out the resources necessary to counter a developing public health threat, the scientific procedures to demonstrate a new medication, or an old medication applied to a new pathogen, is another thing entirely. Likening the two betrays staggering scientific illiteracy. The principled, scientific stand that proven and tested procedures be followed - so as to protect patients against the anti-scientific quackery or snake-oil salesmen - is the only reasoned stance here. Insisting proven, scientific procedures be followed is exactly not "winging it." Listening to a conman and snake-oil salesman is. It's also benighted. As is decrying the advocacy in favor of the scientific method as a symptom of "TDS". For pity's sake!

A model is actually a set of data points no matter the causation. Inherent in the model is how reliable the data gathering was and amount of data collected and plotted. Modeling is a way of identifying trends. These models must be updated regularly until there is enough historical data to identify some kind of trend which may or may not predict future trends.

Models can help but are not the 'be all and end all' when it comes to establishing guidelines. The fact that you don't like Trump skews your personal opinion of the data and should never be part of a statistical analysis. Whether you agree with Trump or not is not even remotely significant.

Hydroxychloroquine is not 'snake oil' doctors who have prescribed it to their patients to cure Covid are not 'snake oil salesmen' I have no idea where you got that piece of fraudulent information from except that, Trump has said people have been cured using the drug. For TDSers that is enough to try to debunk it's use whether or not doctors recommend it for their patients also, it is abundantly clear that those who try to falsely claim that Trump is a 'snake oil salesmen' haven't listened to his news conferences where he has said over and over that patients need to consult their doctors on its use.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:

• The failed Tom Daschle and Bill Richardson Cabinet nominations in 2009
• The BP oil spill in 2010
• Democrats’ loss of the House of Representatives in 2010
• The attack on the US Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, in 2012
• The VA scandal in 2014
• Democratic losses in the 2014 midterms
• The death of two hostages in an operation against al-Qaeda in 2015
• The Syrian government’s atrocities in Aleppo in 2016

Donald Trump:
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Can anyone provide some examples?

Too bad those criminal mother fucker asshole murderers Reagan and Obama did not take responsibility by telling the truth what traiters they were to Americans and how they shit on the constitution and did Not take responsibility and come out and tell the the truth they should have been hung up and strung by the balls to die which describes all politicians,their all criminals,all have committed crimes worse than the criminals all on death row

 

[LA RAM FAN]

"I take no responsibility at all" Rump has literally never taken responsibility for anything in his life. Not military service, not marriage, not numerous failed investments, not even the housing discrimination case he and his father lost. This is a creature who literally never even held a job in his life until January 20. 2017 when he was already 70.

If there is any instance of taking the heat for even the tiniest thing I've never heard of it.

Could not have said it better

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Can you provide some examples then?

Taking responsibility is an important part of leadership.

You have NOTHING but BLIND HATRED for our wonderful president. It's SO disappointing. President Trump has taken responsibility EVERY day since he beat the Hildebeast in the 2016 election. He's shown MORE leadership than perhaps ANY president before him. It's a shame you can't see this because you've been blinded and brainwashed by our hideously biased media. You ARE a wonderful person, I KNOW this from our conversations, I just wish you could see what an amazing job our president is doing.