Has Trump ever taken responsibility?

[toobfreak]

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Wow. Score another win for rampant, uncontrollable, mindless TDS! When all else fails, life on Earth could be ending, whatever you do, try to blame it on and vent your TDS.

View attachment 321287View attachment 321288View attachment 321286

So...can you actually answer any of the questions brought up? Or is this the sum and total of your cognitive abilities?

What would be the point? We've seen the extent of the hardcore TDSers and all "valid" arguments only lead to accusing Trump of everything, and anything else just means you are trapped in his "cultish league of brainwashed Trumpian mind rot," right? That pretty much sums up your entire childish, simplistic world view. You even predictably couldn't resist throwing in some bait-smear about my (take your pick):

1. Education.
2. Intelligence.
3. Reasoning Power.

As if all Trump supporters are simply to be dismissed as stupid people and all stupid people simply support Trump. All I can say is: GOOD LUCK ON NOV. 3 with that. Bye.

 

[Olde Europe]

So when IHME TUNES there model almost daily, it's an ADMISSION that they don't HAVE a predictive model YET... The Max death rate over various modeling runs just over a 3 week period (or slightly less) has gone from 1.2 -- 2MILL dead - to 100,00 or 200,000 dead - to 60,000 to 80,000 just recently.

You are confused. The 1.2+ million death toll was a prediction WITHOUT social distancing. The 100 to 200k death toll was some other model. The IHME model was modified from 90 to 80 to 60k in about ten days. It's mostly driven by adjusted death rates (hospitals are learning) and a surprisingly high adherence to the social distancing advisory. Again, Flac, what do you expect? New data coming in and the model outcome not changing? The changing result demonstrates they are following the data, as scientists do. That is reassuring.

And as Coyote said, the motive for HARANGUING that -- is just because Trump put out it there to extend some hope and compassion to the afflicted.. NOT because you'd personally argue with a loved one NOT TO TAKE IT --- because "science"....

Of course, since times immemorial snake-oil salesmen have sold their snake oil taking advantage of people desperate for hope and compassion. It's also the only thing the Orange dunce is really, really good at. The snake-oil salesman also spread hope assuring everyone that those 15 cases will get down to zero, and miraculously the virus will go away. This is what snake-oil salesmen do.

Of course I'd argue, strenuously, with a loved one not to take a medication that hasn't undergone a rigorous testing regime. I'd argue even more strenuously if there was little by way of recommendation other than anecdotes (snake-oil salesmen always have a plethora of anecdotes) and the word of a habitual liar, such as the Orange dunce.

To wrap this up: Taking responsibility could mean, for instance, adjusting one's behavior once its wrongness has been pointed out. Say, the Orange dunce ceasing to promote medication once a world-class infectious disease specialist pointed out that medication needs to be tested for use against a specific ailment. What did the Orange dunce do? Of course, he's been learning nothing, and touting the same horn, time and again. Whether chloroquine works, in which cases, in which doses, in what stages of treatment, in what patient category, and whether it has potentially lethal side effects if administered differently and for different patients, we do not know. That is why we do rigorous testing, and why it is ill-advised to recommend medication on the word of a snake-oil salesman, such as the Orange dunce.

 

[Coyote]

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Wow. Score another win for rampant, uncontrollable, mindless TDS! When all else fails, life on Earth could be ending, whatever you do, try to blame it on and vent your TDS.

View attachment 321287View attachment 321288View attachment 321286

So...can you actually answer any of the questions brought up? Or is this the sum and total of your cognitive abilities?

What would be the point? We've seen the extent of the hardcore TDSers and all "valid" arguments only lead to accusing Trump of everything, and anything else just means you are trapped in his "cultish league of brainwashed Trumpian mind rot," right? That pretty much sums up your entire childish, simplistic world view. You even predictably couldn't resist throwing in some bait-smear about my (take your pick):

1. Education.
2. Intelligence.
3. Reasoning Power.

As if all Trump supporters are simply to be dismissed as stupid people and all stupid people simply support Trump. All I can say is: GOOD LUCK ON NOV. 3 with that. Bye.

You posted a piece of crap response that was nothing more than TDS rant. Others seem able to actually discuss.

When you label every criticism of Trump as TDS, you are no different than those who labeled every criticism of Obama as racist.

 

[Olde Europe]

I have a temper.

Link?

 

[Coyote]

Don’t ever get tired of blaming everything on the Dems? Is that your own version of TDS? Defend Trump at all costs?

Right now your party is stinky dumpster fire.. They have NOTHING to offer to REMOVE Trump.. And the number of times they've SHOT themselves because they've taken weak ass complaints about Trumop to the people or been stupid enough (for instance) to INSIST Mueller take the oath and testify -- only to SHOW the American people that HE was not familar with his OWN REPORT -- is kinda the pitches I get when I'm at bat...

Don't really care if BOTH parties self-destructed... Just want it to be prolonged and painful... Like the suicide the Dem party has decided to do for the past 3 years...

The Republicans (who you steadfastly refuse to criticize, so I will call them your party even though neither of us belong to the parties) have been an ongoing dumpster fire. They have steadfastly chipped away at ACA, without putting in any replacement plan. If the courts decide it is unconstitutional with the changes Trump made, millions of people will find themselves without affordable insurance and no well thought out back up plan ready to put in. Add fuel to the dumpster fire: that hurge tax cut your party forced through and that failed to deliver economically beyond a short term boost. How much did that add to our debt? When the economy is good, that is the time pay DOWN debt, not add to it. That isn’t even going into the actual policy differences you insist on labeling TDS.

Your party and Trump consistently get a free pass here, even when comes to things that do not involve actual policy, but how a new rule was rolled out with no forewarning, no heads to affected agencies, no guidelines for how to deal with it, no budgetary increases to cover what is needed. It was chaotic, confusing and even cruel. These were examples I brought up in this thread and what happened? Free Pass. TDS. Whatever.

Infact, the constant scream of “TDS“ reminds of the constant scream of “racist” when people criticized Obama.

Now the Dems. Kinda looks like they are treating Trump like the Republicans did Obama doesn’t it? On the other hand, there is a serious need for oversight in this administration that I firmly believe considers itself above the law, or at least agreed upon norms. It believes Congress to be an inferior branch, it believes ultimate power with zero accountability rests with the Executive. Kind of dangerous don’t you think? To be fair, this didn’t start with Trump. It started with the Bush administration, under Cheney’s “Unitary Executive” push, expanded under Obama, and has come to fruition under Trump.

I don’t think the Dems are a full blown dumpster fire yet, but they will be. They have their own “tea party” movement and they are pushing out the moderates, just like the Republicans did before them. Their primary list of candidates tacked much further left than prior ones.

The best system is when no one party has control of all the branches, because that is when oversight and accountability get stomped on. And it provides some balance between the Dem’s desire for a strong safety-net and the inclusion of marginalized people, and the Republican’s desire for fiscal conservatism.

Two dumpster fires, and a president who himself is a dumpster fire, but you only recognize one.

 

[Coyote]

I have a temper.

Link?

You don’t want to see it

 

[Coyote]

No one this side of complete insanity, and with at least a lick of sense, would confuse a model with a "scientific" fact. A model is just a complex set of causations, or rather, in this case, statistical correlations put into action in order to determine more or less likely outcomes of an ongoing development - that is to say, a hypothesis.

So you're lecturing me on modeling?? You confused about the diff between "causations" and statistical correlations?? No matter.. Modeling AINT EITHER of them..

Modeling is the mathematical description of the behavior of a system.. It treats that system - be it a bridge or an airplane or the stock market or a pandemic the SAME way.. It produces a time and/or space variant SINGLE outcome or ensemble of outcomes..

And its usefulness for PREDICTION is only as good as the GUESSES you supply to it. And in THIS case, the guesses are NOT that good.. WHY??? Because there's no solid grounding in EMPIRICAL or ACADEMIC FACTS AND DATA on -- for instance -- what locking down a country the size and scope of America would DO to affect #infections vs time or #deaths vs time.. IN FACT -- CDC ADMITS it doesn't KNOW #infections.. It is guessing and the SCIENCE is NOT settled there.

So when IHME TUNES there model almost daily, it's an ADMISSION that they don't HAVE a predictive model YET... The Max death rate over various modeling runs just over a 3 week period (or slightly less) has gone from 1.2 -- 2MILL dead - to 100,00 or 200,000 dead - to 60,000 to 80,000 just recently.

My point WAS -- THIS "guessing" at the bureaucratic level is FAR LESS "proven" than the myriad of field reports coming in on HCQuine.. It's been ALL Ad Hoc.. And we don't even have to argue at this point.. Because the EXPERIENCE will be moving on in a couple weeks... And for the folks that want to HARANGUE the French, Russian, Spanish, Italian doctors who TOOK NOTES and TELL US that HCQuine was 30 or 50% effective in keeping folks out of respiratory trauma -- that's a far sight CLEARER than the modeling.....

And as Coyote said, the motive for HARANGUING that -- is just because Trump put out it there to extend some hope and compassion to the afflicted.. NOT because you'd personally argue with a loved one NOT TO TAKE IT --- because "science"....

Alright. I was wrong in coming down on that, but when it comes to medical matters, I have more respect for the science side than the political side. If it does no harm, than go with it. Maybe when all is said and done, there will be some actual studies.

 

[flacaltenn]

You are confused. The 1.2+ million death toll was a prediction WITHOUT social distancing.

Not according to Birk and Fauci.. The release of the 1st IHME plots was done after MOST STATES already had incorporated it.. And I KNOW Dr. Birx has said multiple times it's a factor in the modeling from the 1st TIME they laid that "bad news" on everyone... The one that had "deaths" higher by a factor of TEN or more...

NOW what they're doing is pulling ALL the levers, INCLUDING the social distancing, to CREATE an outcome that MATCHES the empirical data available... So it's more of an effort to LEARN what the "adjustable parameters" SHOULD BE to conform to the facts on the ground...

 

[flacaltenn]

Olde Europe NOT to say this isn't useful.. IT IS.. But I was using it as an example to CONTRAST the uncertainty and "unproven" nature of HCQuine with all the OTHER "educated guesses" that our STRINGENT POLICIES and responses are based on..

It's USEFUL -- because it's a "war room" Exercise in learning.. Might as well use AI learning as in "neural nets" to CREATE an ad hoc model, than to try to get the EXACT math and constants, and parameters EXACT at this point...

 

[XponentialChaos]

31 pages.

I assume not a single legitimate response to the OP.

 

[Olde Europe]

The best system is when no one party has control of all the branches, because that is when oversight and accountability get stomped on. And it provides some balance between the Dem’s desire for a strong safety-net and the inclusion of marginalized people, and the Republican’s desire for fiscal conservatism.

Two dumpster fires, and a president who himself is a dumpster fire, but you only recognize one.

Heavens! You think what's going on right now, during the last months, was "oversight"? The Executive Branch refusing to deliver any documents, or making witnesses available? The GOP has abandoned Constitutional governance, just as they abandoned "fiscal conservatism". The latter at last since Reagan. That is the very epitome of "accountability get[ting] stomped on." The way to end that isn't divided government, it is to vote Republicans out of office until they find a way back to some semblance of decency.

I, for one, couldn't be happier with Democrats finally, at long last, waking up from their coma, and doing something about their subservience to the plutocracy. One party bowing to big pharma, big oil, and big finance, and their every demand, is more than enough, don't you think?

 

[bendog]

31 pages.

I assume not a single legitimate response to the OP.

There were, but it appears you missed them, as the thread sort of mutated like the virus (-:

With all respect to the OP, imo it slightly misstates Trump, and that gave rise to accusations of TDS that really are unwarranted. Trump's positions on issues are not all wrong, but there is a separate issue of whether his has the skills temperament to actually succeed. For example, Lighthizer characterizes the China trade deal as being good so long as China honors it, and if they don't our only recourse is back to tariffs. I think most of us agree that China doesn't give a flying fig about agreements but will do whatever it sees as in its interests, so we're left pretty much where we began.

Even Trump's gop supporters are questioning the effectiveness of his "daily briefings."

In regard to the OP and Corvid-19, the point was Trump didn't want testing, and we don't have the testing we need to put people safely back at work. Trump's ego was so huge, and fragile, that simply ignoring his medical experts was his preferred approach until events were near out of hand, and he had to do a 180 in a week's span. All presidents have huge egos, and all make mistakes. But the last one who actually thought he could alter facts was Nixon.

 

[Olde Europe]

You don’t want to see it

Okay, I am sitting. Seat-belt fastened. Now, how about that link? I fully expect to be blown away.

 

[XponentialChaos]

With all respect to the OP, imo it slightly misstates Trump

Does it? I've never seen him take responsibility for anything bad.

 

[bendog]

With all respect to the OP, imo it slightly misstates Trump

Does it? I've never seen him take responsibility for anything bad.

I think at the heart of it Trump has simply played by different rules his entire life. He takes responsibility for his bankruptcies, but he's playing by a set of rules that accepts that bankruptcy is his end goal in a casino deal. He keeps whatever money he got from construction and start up, and walks away clean from debt that he can't service with the cash flow, because he leaves the creditors who put up the money in the first place with the "Trump name." And they're ok with that, because they are oligarchs with dirty money, so the loss they took in terms of what money Trump walks away with is good for them, because they laundered the money into a legal casino.

He signed a consent decree 40-50 years ago to stop discriminating against blacks in renting apartments. He never lived up to it because he employed an attorney who was the most loathsome individual in the business (says a lot) and who Amy Berman would put in jail today.

There are consequences. Trump is not building skyscrapers in NYC or any other US City. But he appears quite happy with his business model hosting Apprentice (you're fired! LOL) and selling Trump Steaks and Vodka. There are much better and lower costs steaks and vodka, but some people like the 'brand.'

And the only criticism I make is ….. when your facts are about casinos and oligarchs and your brand …. facing down a choice of imploding an economy and very possibly your presidency or seeing somewhere between 250K to a million Americans dying is just not something you've trained for. Obama certainly never trained for a collapse of home prices, and W never trained for navigating the gripes between Arab and Persian tribes.

 

[XponentialChaos]

With all respect to the OP, imo it slightly misstates Trump

Does it? I've never seen him take responsibility for anything bad.

I think at the heart of it Trump has simply played by different rules his entire life. He takes responsibility for his bankruptcies,

Did he take responsibility for his bankruptcies?

Did he ever say something along the lines of "It's my fault that my business failed?" I'm asking because I don't recall that.

 

[bendog]

With all respect to the OP, imo it slightly misstates Trump

Does it? I've never seen him take responsibility for anything bad.

I think at the heart of it Trump has simply played by different rules his entire life. He takes responsibility for his bankruptcies,

Did he take responsibility for his bankruptcies?

Did he ever say something along the lines of "It's my fault that my business failed?" I'm asking because I don't recall that.

Well yeah he took responsibility for his bankruptcies in that he did all that was legally required, and he took responsibility for his discriminatory renting in terms of he signed a consent decree and then tied up the govt in court to evade his responsibilities until he sold all his rental units. LOL His entire life is a series of skating around the margins of what other people do. And imo that was the OP.

But he wants to reopen the economy sometime between the next 3-7 weeks, and we do not have, and will not have, enough tests to determine if workers currently have corvid-19, or had it and have antibodies giving them some immunity. And we don't have the tests because he didn't want people tested and showing they had Corvid-19. And he will say that's not his fault. And instead, he'll say he performed 10 out of 10 in guiding the nation through corvid-19. So FACTS, things that most of us live by, are NOT what he EVER has accepted apply to him as they do to you and me.

Slipping Jimmy is fictional character, but there are many slipping jimmies out there, and they know their back or knee is not really messed up by someone else's negligence. Imo, Trump's problem is not "responsibility" but instead more about believing his own bullshit. He simply finds a new set of facts that will accord with the result he wants.

That said, it's very likely that I'll have martinis after I lift weights in the next 1.5 hours, and the calories I take in will exceed the calories I burned off on running this morning and lifting this afternoon, and probably I didn't burn off all I took in yesterday either. And I will tell myself it'll all work out and I'll get even on Sat, even though I don't believe my own bullshit.

 

[toobfreak]

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Wow. Score another win for rampant, uncontrollable, mindless TDS! When all else fails, life on Earth could be ending, whatever you do, try to blame it on and vent your TDS.

View attachment 321287View attachment 321288View attachment 321286

So...can you actually answer any of the questions brought up? Or is this the sum and total of your cognitive abilities?

What would be the point? We've seen the extent of the hardcore TDSers and all "valid" arguments only lead to accusing Trump of everything, and anything else just means you are trapped in his "cultish league of brainwashed Trumpian mind rot," right? That pretty much sums up your entire childish, simplistic world view. You even predictably couldn't resist throwing in some bait-smear about my (take your pick):

1. Education.
2. Intelligence.
3. Reasoning Power.

As if all Trump supporters are simply to be dismissed as stupid people and all stupid people simply support Trump. All I can say is: GOOD LUCK ON NOV. 3 with that. Bye.

You posted a piece of crap response that was nothing more than TDS rant. Others seem able to actually discuss.

When you label every criticism of Trump as TDS, you are no different than those who labeled every criticism of Obama as racist.

Look, Coyote, let's be honest. You're out of your league here. I'm not even making half an effort to prove you wrong anymore because you're simply not worth the effort. I respected your input on the horse thread, but then you dropped out and went back full tilt on a tangent to your usual myopic, monochannel rant. It's not even possible for me to have a TDS rant as I generally support most things Trump does even if I'm NOT a republican and DIDN'T vote for him (nor Hillary either), and as already stated, there is no point in discussing when the opponent is obviously switched to a mode where all roads must lead to ORANGE MAN BAD? Discussion is not an option then and further talk is but exercise in futility. You state it right there that you already invalidate my cogent reply as a mere "piece of crap." You offer no proof making it but another of your intellectual fallacies. You're simply not worth my time.

Even worse, you obviously don't even read my posts for if you did, you would already know of my many criticisms of Trump. NO ONE, no person, no president no matter how altruistic is so without mistake in a position that powerful as to be without criticism. Instead, you wrongly claim I dismiss every negative view on Trump as TDS. I've been critical of Trump since the day in 2016 when he attacked Carly Fiorina as having a "horse face!" And as someone interested in and biased towards female issues and female members here, you'd think that would matter to you.

 

[XponentialChaos]

With all respect to the OP, imo it slightly misstates Trump

Does it? I've never seen him take responsibility for anything bad.

I think at the heart of it Trump has simply played by different rules his entire life. He takes responsibility for his bankruptcies,

Did he take responsibility for his bankruptcies?

Did he ever say something along the lines of "It's my fault that my business failed?" I'm asking because I don't recall that.

Well yeah he took responsibility for his bankruptcies in that he did all that was legally required, and he took responsibility for his discriminatory renting in terms of he signed a consent decree and then tied up the govt in court to evade his responsibilities until he sold all his rental units.

That doesn't sound like taking responsibility to me. That sounds like complying punishments for bad decisions. Maybe we're using different definitions.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Not credit for - he does that all the time, but RESPONSIBILITY for something?

Ronald Reagan:
Ronald Reagan’s acceptance of responsibility in the Iran-Contra Affair in April 1987 when Trump was about to turn 40. Reagan took to the airwaves and revealed his role in the deal that used Nicaragua as the conduit for U.S. arms that were traded for Iranian-held hostages, something Reagan previously had denied. “There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses,” Reagan said. “It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government.” As with Kennedy, the public who genuinely liked Reagan accepted his apology and a potential impeachment was averted. His popularity also returned, scoring him a 64% approval by the time he left office two years later.

John F Kennedy:
John Kennedy’s acceptance of his role in the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961 when Donald was nearly 15. The CIA-run operation, begun under the Eisenhower Administration, resulted in the capture of over 1,200 insurgents and ultimately the strengthening of the nascent Castro regime. Kennedy blamed himself for approving the operation and in public held himself solely accountable. "There's an old saying that victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan ... Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government.” The public liked what they saw from the young president and gave him a pass. Later Kennedy joked that if he had known how his poll numbers would have soared – into the 80s – he might have called for the invasion to occur sooner.

Barak Obama:
President Obama, by his own admission, failed badly during the rollout of Obamacare in fall 2013, more grievously due to the failures of HealthCare.gov. But he took responsibility and fixed it, launching an unprecedented number of outside programmers and tech specialists to overhaul the site and get it in working order. "I take full responsibility for making sure it gets fixed ASAP,” Obama said at the time. And so he did.

Here are a few other things Obama took responsibility for while in office:

• The failed Tom Daschle and Bill Richardson Cabinet nominations in 2009
• The BP oil spill in 2010
• Democrats’ loss of the House of Representatives in 2010
• The attack on the US Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, in 2012
• The VA scandal in 2014
• Democratic losses in the 2014 midterms
• The death of two hostages in an operation against al-Qaeda in 2015
• The Syrian government’s atrocities in Aleppo in 2016

Donald Trump:
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................
..........................................



Can anyone provide some examples?

Too bad those criminal mother fucker asshole murderers Reagan and Obama did not take responsibility by telling the truth what traiters they were to Americans and how they shit on the constitution and did Not take responsibility and come out and tell the the truth they should have been hung up and strung by the balls to die which describes all politicians,their all criminals,all have committed crimes worse than the criminals all on death row

Uhm, Reagan was a good American. He was shot 70 days into his presidency so that globalist H.W. Bush could run things, and it went like that for a long time. Reagan almost did not live. Oh! And they restricted guns more after he got shot.
Buncha BS!

Good American,you are too funny,he was shot not because he was a good American as our last great president jfk was which was why he was killed,but because at first,he started out doing his own things the way he wanted to do them,not the way the elite wanted him to do it.Unlike with jfk,they let him off with a warning shot because of the fact they liked him cause he was an evil bastard who ruined many lives even before politics destroying the livelihoods of many actors in Hollywood giving false info to the fbi while spying for them they were communist spies.he also participated in the coverup of jfk as governor of California blocking subpeonas of garrisons of cia operatives he tried to get prosecuted. That motherfucker was also a globalist same as bush,you just never did your homework.lol oh and once Reagan got the message through that warning shot they gave him,from the power elite that if he tried to do things his own way instead of their way,that he would end up like Kennedy the next time he tried to be a hero,he caved in to the globalists and became their willing puppet serving the evil Cia and their interests instead of the American people as Kennedy did. his policy’s drastically changed for the worst for the American people after taking a bullet.you have not done your homework Einstein and have been listing too much to what our corrupt school system and cia controlled media taught you.lol. His policy’s drastically changed for the worst once he got the message from the warning Message they gave him which was you play ball with us and start doing as we tell you to do,or you also,will end up like Kennedy,he clearly got the message after that and drastically changed his policy’s for the worst after that by serving the interests of the globalists instead of the people,hate to break your heart dude,but good presidents that are not corrupt,never serve more than one term,get with the program,what world do you live in? Lol comedy gold. You sure like to change the topic when the truth hurts all the time as always lol I am no fan of trump but he is not evil to the extremes Reagan was,I give him credit for that.lol. Both parties are evil,you cant seem to grasp that with your obvious bias towards the republicans.